Chit-Chat: The Feels

[tearknee]

" I don't believe that they're on the way to becoming a multiracial coalition by any means".

That's somewhat unfortunately implying that it can only be a genuine 'multiracial coalition' if non-whites vote the ['correct'?] way you may wish them to [far left to left?].

[Eri]

To me, it means Trump voters were far less racially diverse than Dem voters and there would need to be a far greater Republican shift in minority vote margins to come close to the changing racial demographic profile of the U.S. but YMMV.

Edited May 1 by Eri

[Affogato]

36 minutes ago, Eri said:

I’d like to share some thoughts on this, as a POC and a child of immigrants in the US so bear with me :)

While I recognize that some minority groups tend to be conservative socially and culturally, I believe this represents a relatively small portion of the population compared to the 2/3rds white majority who voted for Trump. For instance, black voters have always been consistently high for the Democratic party (black women especially). The same could be said for Jewish voters (Reform with some non-denominational and Conservative I'd wager, but please feel free to correct me!) Even AAPI data suggests Asian women leaned more left this election cycle. If anything, the gender gap widened last year and shows that identity representation matters.

Since you mentioned it, Latino voters have shown a tendency to shift more to the right since 2020, and I attribute this to several driving factors (which you could apply to any group honestly): 

1) Tribalism aka "Us vs.Them"

Trump taking advantage of the migrant crisis and exploiting the racial and ethnic grievances and identity baggage that some Latinos carry. That's why, even now, politically, when Trump interacts with these voters—whether they're Afro-Latinx in the Bronx, Mexican Americans in Texas, or Cubans in Miami—some may identify as white, while others may have different racial identities. It does clarify why some Latino voters who assimilate into American culture also tap into the nativism and the anti-immigrant sentiment being shared. 

2) Traditionalism

"You came in the right way" vs "They (asylum seekers) came in the wrong way" rhetoric. I think DACA and other legal status/green card holders who have been waiting over 20 yrs for immigration reform feel ignored and it's resulted in resentment toward the Democrats. I remember watching Trump's interview on Univision with Mexican farmers who were worried about their livelihoods, and he was explaining his mass deportation plan and how he wants to help them. It was dripping with "you're one of the good ones" narrative, which as a minority, always makes me cringe. 

3) Trauma

Families that are fleeing/fled communism, various forms of fascism and unstable governments who live here were exploited when the Trump campaign reinforced and conditioned those voters to believe that the Strongman Rule is necessary for a safer democracy, fueled by misinformation and conspiracy theories. We're now seeing how that is playing out.

If you're interested, Paola Ramos has an interesting book out called "Defectors: The Rise of the Latino Far Right and What It Means for America" which casts aside the misguided notion that Latinos are a monolith and highlights some of these factors.

I mention all this to suggest that, while it is true that the GOP has made some gains among certain racial demographics (primarily men), I don't believe that they're on the way to becoming a multiracial coalition by any means. 

I didn’t mean to indicate that it was a coalition of any sort, and the specific quote was from a specific Latino speaker. I have read so

e things about the book and heard people discuss it. I was also not dipping my toe i to whether certain groups of immigrants are naturally more conservative. 
 

what I was trying to say is the desire for jobs that provide a living wage and buy houses and so on, and possibly a simpler time when houses were safer from fires and tornadoes (etc) and people spoke of solid values, were things that spoke to a wide swath of people, not just white middle america. 

Edited May 1 by Affogato

[Eri]

Yeah I hear you - was just sharing another perspective :) 

Edited May 1 by Eri

[tearknee]

There seems to be a puzzlingly desire by many in the west to protect non-white cultures and societal structures even if they are toxic. the word overcompensation comes to mind.

You only have to look at "the Friends of Palestine" for this -- as such people would be first up against the wall in 'Free Palestine' and if anything, breaking the power of traditional and reactionary Islam is much of why Albania and Kosovo is better off today than if either Zog or Peter II had come back.

Edited May 1 by tearknee

[Mollywolly555]

4 hours ago, Eri said:

I’d like to share some thoughts on this, as a POC and a child of immigrants in the US so bear with me :)

While I recognize that some minority groups tend to be conservative socially and culturally, I believe this represents a relatively small portion of the population compared to the 2/3rds white majority who voted for Trump. For instance, black voters have always been consistently high for the Democratic party (black women especially). The same could be said for Jewish voters (Reform with some non-denominational and Conservative I'd wager, but please feel free to correct me!) Even AAPI data suggests Asian women leaned more left this election cycle. If anything, the gender gap widened last year and shows that identity representation matters.

Since you mentioned it, Latino voters have shown a tendency to shift more to the right since 2020, and I attribute this to several driving factors (which you could apply to any group honestly): 

1) Tribalism aka "Us vs.Them"

Trump taking advantage of the migrant crisis and exploiting the racial and ethnic grievances and identity baggage that some Latinos carry. That's why, even now, politically, when Trump interacts with these voters—whether they're Afro-Latinx in the Bronx, Mexican Americans in Texas, or Cubans in Miami—some may identify as white, while others may have different racial identities. It does clarify why some Latino voters who assimilate into American culture also tap into the nativism and the anti-immigrant sentiment being shared. 

2) Traditionalism

"You came in the right way" vs "They (asylum seekers) came in the wrong way" rhetoric. I think DACA and other legal status/green card holders who have been waiting over 20 yrs for immigration reform feel ignored and it's resulted in resentment toward the Democrats. I remember watching Trump's interview on Univision with Mexican farmers who were worried about their livelihoods, and he was explaining his mass deportation plan and how he wants to help them. It was dripping with "you're one of the good ones" narrative, which as a minority, always makes me cringe. 

3) Trauma

Families that are fleeing/fled communism, various forms of fascism and unstable governments who live here were exploited when the Trump campaign reinforced and conditioned those voters to believe that the Strongman Rule is necessary for a safer democracy, fueled by misinformation and conspiracy theories. We're now seeing how that is playing out.

If you're interested, Paola Ramos has an interesting book out called "Defectors: The Rise of the Latino Far Right and What It Means for America" which casts aside the misguided notion that Latinos are a monolith and highlights some of these factors.

I mention all this to suggest that, while it is true that the GOP has made some gains among certain racial demographics (primarily men), I don't believe that they're on the way to becoming a multiracial coalition by any means. 

Thank you,  Eri, for the explanation.

I was wondering about this phenomenon.

My BIL was born in US;  is half Mexican, half Italian, both parents also born here.

He has criticized incoming Mexicans in the US for the 40 years I've known him, not just recently, but is otherwise apolitical. 

I never got the turn on his ethnic group (half anyways).

His son, my nephew is bigly maga, as is my youngest sister,  his mother.  I get it, but I still don't  get the  logic. 

Are there stats on Latino voters for Repubs or Dems?

6 hours ago, tres bien said:

😖

 

Edited May 1 by Mollywolly555
My mistake, ignore quote by tres bien. Wd not let me delete.

[PRgal]

Re:  Latinos voting Republican in 2024…I wonder if most got their news from Spanish-speaking media/hang out in Spanish social media groups who may lean more Republican?  As noted earlier, I posted a link to a Threads discussion where a woman said reading English and Cantonese discussions on the Canadian election were basically polar opposites, with one believing it was the apocalypse and the other, not just breathing a sigh of release, but celebrating the saving of our culture and values.  
 

https://www.threads.com/@heikykwan/post/DJCMIp4J0mN?xmt=AQGzFY4mKY9pRTl9o-bMYbpz7Xz_0BvVyfq2sdaG-ICPTA

[tres bien]

Wow. I can’t understand this feeling that it’s funny or ok that since Trump’s return to the WH the DOD has cleaned the military of it’s top female rank officers. 

The US military no longer has a woman in a four star general or admiral leadership position.

Eliminating the WPS program this week because Hegseth deemed it woke was another way to disrespect women in the military 

While the two authors of the bill creating the WPS and signed into law by Trump sit idly by him and seemingly ok with him dismantling and erasing women in the military 

 

Edited May 1 by tres bien

[Affogato]

31 minutes ago, tres bien said:

Wow. I can’t understand this feeling that it’s funny or ok that since Trump’s return to the WH the DOD has cleaned the military of it’s top female rank officers. 

The US military no longer has a woman in a four star general or admiral leadership position.

Eliminating the WPS program this week because Hegseth deemed it woke was another way to disrespect women in the military 

While the two authors of the bill creating the WPS and signed into law by Trump sit idly by him and seemingly ok with him dismantling and erasing women in the military 

 

Hegseth is higely insecure and totally unqualified before he got elected to this complex job. He got elected to this job because apparently Trump likes him. 

Edited May 1 by Affogato

[Cementhead]

14 minutes ago, Affogato said:

He got elected to this job because apparently Trump likes him. 

Trump loved the way Hegseth looked on tv and hired him because he looks like he is right out of central casting.  Picked because he looks the part to Trump. 

[tres bien]

 

19 minutes ago, Cementhead said:

Trump loved the way Hegseth looked on tv and hired him because he looks like he is right out of central casting.  Picked because he looks the part to Trump. 

Right out of central casting with his brand new makeup studio in his office 

Can the Pentagon cry. If it can it should be shedding tears 

[Cementhead]

Just now, tres bien said:

Right out of central casting with his brand new makeup studio in his office 

Can the Pentagon cry. If it can it should be shedding tears 

I have lost count at how many times I have said to my husband "I don't know if I should be laughing or crying" in the last 100 days.

[Kemper]

I wrote in another thread that I am tired (and annoyed) at the "woke" word. It is used by insecure comedians a lot. And by politicians as a club to advance their "unwoke" agenda. A pox on all of them.

[fastiller]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

Hegseth is higely insecure and totally unqualified before he got elected to this complex job. He got elected to this job because apparently Trump likes him. 

He wasn't elected, he was appointed & confirmed.  But your overall point still stands.  Seems 'highly insecure & totally unqualified' is the requirement for this admin's cabinet and appointees.

The one who actually is highly insecure & totally unqualified before he got elected is POTUS.

[Affogato]

23 minutes ago, fastiller said:

He wasn't elected, he was appointed & confirmed.  But your overall point still stands.  Seems 'highly insecure & totally unqualified' is the requirement for this admin's cabinet and appointees.

The one who actually is highly insecure & totally unqualified before he got elected is POTUS.

Yeah. I saw an interview with trump and a news reporter, tv, don’t have a link. I saw a clip. But trump was maintaing the m13 was right there and the reporter kept on saying ‘no sir that’s photoshopped’. Trump said he picked the reporter, well (belittling) he hadn’t heard of him, but he needed to do better. Reporter said lets talk about the Ukraine. Trump ignored. Really trump is going headfirst into his own world fast. Can’t cope with less than obeisance. Which is why bezos move is smart. It is public. It doesn’t matter in the larger sense. 

28 minutes ago, Kemper said:

I wrote in another thread that I am tired (and annoyed) at the "woke" word. It is used by insecure comedians a lot. And by politicians as a club to advance their "unwoke" agenda. A pox on all of them.

And yet what they are doing is to reverse people awakening to things that have been happening around them. So it fits. 

Edited May 1 by Affogato

[tres bien]

42 minutes ago, fastiller said:

He wasn't elected, he was appointed & confirmed.  But your overall point still stands.  Seems 'highly insecure & totally unqualified' is the requirement for this admin's cabinet and appointees.

The one who actually is highly insecure & totally unqualified before he got elected is POTUS.

Hegseth was barely put into the job as it took JD to come in a break the tie to confirm him

[Annber03]

46 minutes ago, Kemper said:

I wrote in another thread that I am tired (and annoyed) at the "woke" word. It is used by insecure comedians a lot. And by politicians as a club to advance their "unwoke" agenda. A pox on all of them.

I have said it before and I'll say it again, if one doesn't understand or can't define what the word "woke" actually means, their feelings on the concept hold no weight. Or should hold no weight. 

[tres bien]

As if we aren’t aware of the unqualified unfit conspiracy theorist and complete moron in charge of HHS Jr reminded us yesterday 

With reported measles cases at more than 900 Jr appeared on Chris Cuomo’s News Nation show yesterday to again undermine the need for getting the MMR vaccine

Apparently Jr’s vast knowledge of vaccines has him now declaring that the MMR vaccine “contains a lot of aborted fetus debris “

According to Grok the claim that the MMR vaccine contains a lot of fetus debris is misleading. The vaccine is developed using fetal cell lines from decades ago but the final product does not contain significant fetal tissue. Trace amounts of proteins or DNA may remain but not intact tissue. (Ethical concerns exist but many including the Catholic Church permit its use due to life-saving benefits)

Edited May 1 by tres bien

[Yeah No]

19 hours ago, Affogato said:

But immigrants, often poc, and some US poc, are jumping on the train.  Because they want that as well. Not the change, environmental and economic and social that is upon us. It is not just white evangelicals and their womenfolk. It is dangerous to dismiss it as such. Latino men who voted for Trump said ‘we want to be winners’. 

Yes, and this extends to more than just political affiliations. I knew Hispanics in the Bronx 40 years ago that wanted to identify as white. Their thinking was why should they want to be identified as a minority and be subject to racism, especially if they can "pass"? Also, if they had any aspirations of upward mobility it gave them a better chance of getting a job and finding a place to live in a nice suburb. When asked they said their heritage was "European Spanish". In many cases I'm sure their DNA was at least 50% white anyway if not more. And in all cases these people were right-wing Republicans! Let that sink in, this was 40 years ago!!!

And speaking of DNA, these days I'm sure a lot of Hispanics have had theirs tested and know their "admixture". Some are finding out that they are more white than non-white and are probably identifying as white. I have heard that census records are not really accurate as to the number of Hispanics because some Hispanics are voluntarily choosing to identify as white on census questionnaires even when given the choice to put down multiple races.

Yikes, even "ethnic" whites were attempting to appear less ethnic years ago. My own mother "anglicized" her name in the 1940s to get a job as a secretary in NYC as she was finding it difficult with her Italian last name.

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, Kemper said:

I wrote in another thread that I am tired (and annoyed) at the "woke" word. It is used by insecure comedians a lot. And by politicians as a club to advance their "unwoke" agenda. A pox on all of them.

Good gawd!  I’m MORE than tired.  It’s just another term for “politically correct”/PC which was over-used in the 90s and early naughts.  I wrote tons of opinion pieces on my view of the world and my issues with certain PC philosophies back then. As a high school student and in undergrad.

[tres bien]

The only person in this “administration “ that I had at least a modicum of respect for was Marco Rubio.

What a disgrace. As a former registered voter in FL I thought he had a very good chance of succeeding Ron DeSantis in 2026

He’s doing so much harm to the country and embarrassing himself while following Trump’s orders that soon he’ll have to eject himself from the train wreck 

[Bookish Jen]

1 hour ago, Kemper said:

I wrote in another thread that I am tired (and annoyed) at the "woke" word. It is used by insecure comedians a lot. And by politicians as a club to advance their "unwoke" agenda. A pox on all of them.

Conservative pundit, Bethany Mandel, along with another author, wrote a book about the scourge of "woke" called "Stolen Youth: How Radicals Are Erasing Innocence and Indoctrinating a Generation." Yet, when she was asked to define woke in a TV interview, Bethany totally froze up. From Bethany's Wikipedia page:

Defining "woke" and viral celebrity

On March 14, 2023, during an interview with Briahna Joy Gray and Robby Soave of Rising, when asked to define the word "woke" in connection to the release of her co-written work Stolen Youth: How Radicals are Erasing Innocence and Indoctrinating a Generation, Mandel stumbled repeatedly in attempting to define the word. "So, I mean, woke is, sort of, the idea that, um...This is going to be one of those moments that goes viral."[12] When pressed further by Joy Gray to elaborate and provide a working definition of the word, Mandel continued, "So, I mean, woke is...Sort of the idea that, uh, um … I … Woke is something that's very hard to define, and we've spent an entire chapter defining it...It is sort of the understanding that we need to re-, totally reimagine and re-, re-, redo society in order to create hierarchies of oppression...Sorry, it's hard to explain in a 15-second sound bite."[13] The moment went viral across multiple platforms.

On March 15, the day following the interview, Mandel wrote an op-ed for Newsweek, stating that she was rattled by comments made by host Briahna Joy Gray that were "demeaning to parents in general in colorful and nasty terms."[14] Mandel went on to provide a definition of woke as "a radical belief system suggesting that our institutions are built around discrimination, and claiming that all disparity is a result of that discrimination. It seeks a radical redefinition of society in which equality of group result is the end point, enforced by an angry mob."[14] Mandel framed the exchange and aftermath as a "teachable moment" for her children, explaining to them how people were criticizing her on the internet, how it impacted her feelings and mental health, and how it was both important and healthy to experience those feelings.[14]

What a whiny brat!

 

[Yeah No]

19 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

When you take out the racism, homophobia, and misogyny out of "Make America Great Again" it does sound very appealing. In 1950s America, families could afford a house and a car with only one income due to the "good" jobs available to all (just as long as you squinted). Women could work, but did not have to work (well except for the WOC who worked as domestics, and the farmers' wives who also had to pitch in on the farm, and all the housework that is never counted as actual work. I could go on.) It's a fantasy that people want to make a reality, and they mistakenly think Donald Trump will be the one to make it happen.

Yes, and now Trump and his minions are pushing that racism-free angle as their platform. They are sanitizing the racism out of it to appeal to non-whites to get more of them to come onboard the MAGA train. They're spinning it at working class people and claiming that Trump's plan is to make things more affordable for "all people". (Yeah, right, sure....🙄)

Quite by accident I stumbled on some kind of "Town Hall" with Chris Cuomo (what happened to HIM??) last night and a panel including Steve Bannon and Booby. Bannon was pushing this lie and I know the motivation. They got the idea that some POC are enticed by the MAGA message and want to get more of them to join them.

They know that the Democratic party is as or more unpopular in the polls than Trump's falling approval rating so they are going after any of them they can dupe into believing that this is what they stand for. And knowing that people these days aren't seeing the big picture they know they can convince some of them into thinking that race has nothing to do with MAGA and everything to do with making THEIR lives better.

12 hours ago, Eri said:

I’d like to share some thoughts on this, as a POC and a child of immigrants in the US so bear with me :)

While I recognize that some minority groups tend to be conservative socially and culturally, I believe this represents a relatively small portion of the population compared to the 2/3rds white majority who voted for Trump. For instance, black voters have always been consistently high for the Democratic party (black women especially). The same could be said for Jewish voters (Reform with some non-denominational and Conservative I'd wager, but please feel free to correct me!) Even AAPI data suggests Asian women leaned more left this election cycle. If anything, the gender gap widened last year and shows that identity representation matters.

Since you mentioned it, Latino voters have shown a tendency to shift more to the right since 2020, and I attribute this to several driving factors (which you could apply to any group honestly): 

1) Tribalism aka "Us vs.Them"

Trump taking advantage of the migrant crisis and exploiting the racial and ethnic grievances and identity baggage that some Latinos carry. That's why, even now, politically, when Trump interacts with these voters—whether they're Afro-Latinx in the Bronx, Mexican Americans in Texas, or Cubans in Miami—some may identify as white, while others may have different racial identities. It does clarify why some Latino voters who assimilate into American culture also tap into the nativism and the anti-immigrant sentiment being shared. 

2) Traditionalism

"You came in the right way" vs "They (asylum seekers) came in the wrong way" rhetoric. I think DACA and other legal status/green card holders who have been waiting over 20 yrs for immigration reform feel ignored and it's resulted in resentment toward the Democrats. I remember watching Trump's interview on Univision with Mexican farmers who were worried about their livelihoods, and he was explaining his mass deportation plan and how he wants to help them. It was dripping with "you're one of the good ones" narrative, which as a minority, always makes me cringe. 

3) Trauma

Families that are fleeing/fled communism, various forms of fascism and unstable governments who live here were exploited when the Trump campaign reinforced and conditioned those voters to believe that the Strongman Rule is necessary for a safer democracy, fueled by misinformation and conspiracy theories. We're now seeing how that is playing out.

If you're interested, Paola Ramos has an interesting book out called "Defectors: The Rise of the Latino Far Right and What It Means for America" which casts aside the misguided notion that Latinos are a monolith and highlights some of these factors.

I mention all this to suggest that, while it is true that the GOP has made some gains among certain racial demographics (primarily men), I don't believe that they're on the way to becoming a multiracial coalition by any means. 

If Trump and MAGA have anything to do with it they are actively recruiting POC by trying to universalize MAGA into being about upward mobility and achieving the American Dream, not going back to some 1950s Norman Rockwell white fantasyland. At least they do that when they're pitching it at minorities. When they're pitching it at white racists and Christian conservatives, they do a "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" to signal to them that they're really with them.

And I do think that they will be successful at recruiting more minorities to their cause. There are a lot of POC that are responding to what they see as a winning message, not what they see as the Democratic message that categorizes them as victims of white oppression. There are already Black conservatives that were converted to that stance because they thought the Democrats depicted minorities as permanent victims of white racism and oppression that only could achieve success through "government programs and handouts", not through a "here's a rope to help you pull yourself out of your plight" message. And MAGA wants to be that positive message and pits itself against the Democratic message as it has defined it.

Now mind you, I detest MAGA and don't believe it is a true message but I have to sympathize with why when spun this way it's more attractive than what they are claiming is the Democratic platform. And if Democrats want to counter that they need to come up with a positive message of their own or they will risk losing more people to MAGA as time goes on.  I see it as MAGA stealing the Democrats' true message and making their own while twisting what should be the Democratic message into a negative one. And a lot of people are buying it. If that's not really what Democrats want to be known for, they need to do something about it and STAT.

[Dimity]

So during his interview on ABC Tuesday night this exchange occurred:

TRUMP: He had MS-13 on his knuckles, tattooed! 

MORAN: That was photoshopped 

TRUMP: Terry, they're giving you the big break of a lifetime. I picked you. But you're not being very nice.

He is embarrassing himself, the office of the president and the US as a country.  

[Affogato]

6 minutes ago, Dimity said:

So during his interview on ABC Tuesday night this exchange occurred:

TRUMP: He had MS-13 on his knuckles, tattooed! 

MORAN: That was photoshopped 

TRUMP: Terry, they're giving you the big break of a lifetime. I picked you. But you're not being very nice.

He is embarrassing himself, the office of the president and the US as a country.  

Yes, that was the bit I saw. 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Dimity said:

So during his interview on ABC Tuesday night this exchange occurred:

TRUMP: He had MS-13 on his knuckles, tattooed! 

MORAN: That was photoshopped 

TRUMP: Terry, they're giving you the big break of a lifetime. I picked you. But you're not being very nice.

He is embarrassing himself, the office of the president and the US as a country.  

Fixed the hand holding the PhotoShopped picture in PhotoShop:
<--
 😉

Edited May 1 by shapeshifter

[Bookish Jen]

41 minutes ago, Dimity said:

So during his interview on ABC Tuesday night this exchange occurred:

TRUMP: He had MS-13 on his knuckles, tattooed! 

MORAN: That was photoshopped 

TRUMP: Terry, they're giving you the big break of a lifetime. I picked you. But you're not being very nice.

He is embarrassing himself, the office of the president and the US as a country.  

Stevie Wonder could tell those tattoos were photoshopped.

And speaking of delusional. Imagine thinking Trump is the epitome of healthy.

 

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Yes, and now Trump and his minions are pushing that racism-free angle as their platform. They are sanitizing the racism out of it to appeal to non-whites to get more of them to come onboard the MAGA train. They're spinning it at working class people and claiming that Trump's plan is to make things more affordable for "all people". (Yeah, right, sure....🙄)

Quite by accident I stumbled on some kind of "Town Hall" with Chris Cuomo (what happened to HIM??) last night and a panel including Steve Bannon and Booby. Bannon was pushing this lie and I know the motivation. They got the idea that some POC are enticed by the MAGA message and want to get more of them to join them.

They know that the Democratic party is as or more unpopular in the polls than Trump's falling approval rating so they are going after any of them they can dupe into believing that this is what they stand for. And knowing that people these days aren't seeing the big picture they know they can convince some of them into thinking that race has nothing to do with MAGA and everything to do with making THEIR lives better.

If Trump and MAGA have anything to do with it they are actively recruiting POC by trying to universalize MAGA into being about upward mobility and achieving the American Dream, not going back to some 1950s Norman Rockwell white fantasyland. At least they do that when they're pitching it at minorities. When they're pitching it at white racists and Christian conservatives, they do a "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" to signal to them that they're really with them.

And I do think that they will be successful at recruiting more minorities to their cause. There are a lot of POC that are responding to what they see as a winning message, not what they see as the Democratic message that categorizes them as victims of white oppression. There are already Black conservatives that were converted to that stance because they thought the Democrats depicted minorities as permanent victims of white racism and oppression that only could achieve success through "government programs and handouts", not through a "here's a rope to help you pull yourself out of your plight" message. And MAGA wants to be that positive message and pits itself against the Democratic message as it has defined it.

Now mind you, I detest MAGA and don't believe it is a true message but I have to sympathize with why when spun this way it's more attractive than what they are claiming is the Democratic platform. And if Democrats want to counter that they need to come up with a positive message of their own or they will risk losing more people to MAGA as time goes on.  I see it as MAGA stealing the Democrats' true message and making their own while twisting what should be the Democratic message into a negative one. And a lot of people are buying it. If that's not really what Democrats want to be known for, they need to do something about it and STAT.

Yes. 
 

i do think it is the ‘50s and early ‘60s American dream model. i don’t think MAGA is formulating a plan to prosper in out actual situation as we stand now. The tariff clusterf*ck is a sign of that. And yes, I think this is a big issue for the democrats, because they don’t have a real solution they can communicate. 

[Dimity]

27 minutes ago, Bookish Jen said:

Stevie Wonder could tell those tattoos were photoshopped.

And speaking of delusional. Imagine thinking Trump is the epitome of healthy.

 

I wonder how hard she had to look to find a photo that looked at least somewhat not awful?

Here's one any 50 yr old would aspire to...

Edited May 1 by Dimity

[fastiller]

Don't let the door hit you....

Trump national security adviser Waltz is out following Signal chat blunder in major staff shakeup

Why not Hegseth?

[Affogato]

31 minutes ago, fastiller said:

Don't let the door hit you....

Trump national security adviser Waltz is out following Signal chat blunder in major staff shakeup

Why not Hegseth?

Waltz was the one who added the journalist to the chat. Also Hegseth may not know how to follow up. 

Edited May 1 by Affogato

[Cementhead]

42 minutes ago, fastiller said:

Why not Hegseth?

Because Trump thinks he's too pretty to fire.  And they just spent all that money on his new makeup studio at the Pentagon.

[Absolom]

Kennedy's personal gym?

[PRgal]

17 hours ago, tearknee said:

" I don't believe that they're on the way to becoming a multiracial coalition by any means".

That's somewhat unfortunately implying that it can only be a genuine 'multiracial coalition' if non-whites vote the ['correct'?] way you may wish them to [far left to left?].

This is also the vibe I get from many White (and non "ethnic" (i.e. not from communities that are typically fewer than two or three generations removed from the old country)) leftists.  Or ones who are adjacent (i.e. can be "ethnic").  It's maddening to me, and I voted Liberal this year.  I have felt, at times, that they're trying to delete the existence of my heritage/that they are denying that other cultures could be patriarchal or only became patriarchal due to colonialism.  It's entirely WTF.  Oh, and they sometimes (conveniently) forget that many immigrants only consume media in the language of the country they came from.

[Affogato]

1 minute ago, PRgal said:

This is also the vibe I get from many White (and non "ethnic" (i.e. not from communities that are typically fewer than two or three generations removed from the old country)) leftists.  Or ones who are adjacent (i.e. can be "ethnic").  It's maddening to me, and I voted Liberal this year.  I have felt, at times, that they're trying to delete the existence of my heritage/that they are denying that other cultures could be patriarchal or only became patriarchal due to colonialism.  It's entirely WTF.  Oh, and they sometimes (conveniently) forget that many immigrants only consume media in the language of the country they came from.

Certainly no culture has a lock on the patriarchy. 

[Mollywolly555]

1 minute ago, Affogato said:

Certainly no culture has a lock on the patriarchy. 

I thought they ALL did.

[shapeshifter]

13 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Certainly no culture has a lock on the patriarchy. 

11 minutes ago, Mollywolly555 said:

I thought they ALL did.

Just thought I'd share my Tuesday WORDLE WORDS LIMERICK that mentions the patriarchy — words in ALL CAPS are just my Wordle words:

• Any POETS for WHOM Poetry is found in Wordles,
  In UNITY ARISE to clear pathocratic hurdles,
  To charm puzzlers of all stripes,
  In stealth unmasking fake hypes,
  So they’re woke from confederate BLISS patriarchal. 

 

Edited May 1 by shapeshifter

[Anela]

8 hours ago, PRgal said:

Re:  Latinos voting Republican in 2024…I wonder if most got their news from Spanish-speaking media/hang out in Spanish social media groups who may lean more Republican?  As noted earlier, I posted a link to a Threads discussion where a woman said reading English and Cantonese discussions on the Canadian election were basically polar opposites, with one believing it was the apocalypse and the other, not just breathing a sigh of release, but celebrating the saving of our culture and values.  
 

https://www.threads.com/@heikykwan/post/DJCMIp4J0mN?xmt=AQGzFY4mKY9pRTl9o-bMYbpz7Xz_0BvVyfq2sdaG-ICPTA

Someone did a story on this, either last year, or during the previous election. People were talking about what their families were being exposed to, compared to what I might see, for example. 

And the republicans here, are the ones saying that every single person in this country should speak English. It isn't the Democrats.

I saw that Stephen Miller said they will be making sure that children all over this country, are patriotic. 

Quote

White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller said students will be “taught to love America,” and “taught to be patriots” if states want to receive federal funding, as the Trump administration moves to dismantle the Department of Education.

https://www.instagram.com/cbsnews/reel/DJHlWhpxFrT/

Sounds like indoctrination, to me. 

[Dimity]

42 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Kennedy's personal gym?

I will never get used to Kennedy meaning Booby.  I thought this was a reference to JFK and was going to go all defensive and point out that he probably needed a personal gym to work on the pain he experienced because of WWII war injuries.  Something Trump and Heggy and Vance wouldn't even begin to understand. 

7 minutes ago, Anela said:

I saw that Stephen Miller said they will be making sure that children all over this country, are patriotic. 

Coming from someone who looks like he should be leading the Hitler Youth movement this doesn't surprise me.  I mean, seriously, do they WANT us to keep calling  Nazis?

[tres bien]

2 hours ago, fastiller said:

Don't let the door hit you....

Trump national security adviser Waltz is out following Signal chat blunder in major staff shakeup

Why not Hegseth?

Oh but Waltz has now been nominated to be the US Ambassador to the United Nations 

This has to be confirmed by the Senate so no worries there they can drag in JD if need be 

And condolences to Elise Stefanik 

Edited May 1 by tres bien

[tearknee]

56 minutes ago, PRgal said:

 

Interestingly there's a long tradition in England of dressing up political reform as a return to a mythical past where everyone was free and equal. At the time of Magna Carta, the so-called "Saxon liberties" were much talked about. The same was said during the 1640s revolution. Even at the time of the 1832 Reform Act many reformers claimed to be re-establishing the "free Parliament" that they said had existed in some earlier time. The use of this rhetoric shouldn't disguise the fact that genuine reforms were being made. Magna Carta was a reaction against the despotism of Richard and John, particularly their unprecedented taxation to pay for wars, but also abuses such as forced marriages of heiresses and keeping bishoprics and earldoms vacant for years in order to steal the revenues. Both in 1215 and in 1259 there was a genuine attempt to end these abuses and to put relationships within the feudal structure (which everyone accepted as God-given) onto the basis of law rather than of arbitrary royal or baronial will. Although progress was of course uneven, many of these reforms did stick. Although de Montfort was killed, his Parliament endured, and later kings could not raise taxes without it. When Charles I tried, he lost his head.

[tres bien]

Do have a word salad interpreter here?

Today Trump “We’re bringing back religion in our country and we’re bringing it back quickly and strongly”

[tearknee]

1 minute ago, tres bien said:

Do have a word salad interpreter here?

Today Trump “We’re bringing back religion in our country and we’re bringing it back quickly and strongly”

Maybe he means "regional", is a secret watcher of old PBS, and wants to bring back the old ITV?

 

[ProudMary]

3 hours ago, Affogato said:

Yes. 
 

i do think it is the ‘50s and early ‘60s American dream model. i don’t think MAGA is formulating a plan to prosper in out actual situation as we stand now. The tariff clusterf*ck is a sign of that. And yes, I think this is a big issue for the democrats, because they don’t have a real solution they can communicate. 

Well, in the '50s and '60s, corporations were taxed between 70%-90%. That should be a pretty easy message to communicate. 

In 2020, Elizabeth Warren's stump speech contained her easy-to-understand wealth tax plan. A 2% tax would be placed on any earnings over $50 million, so 2 cents on every dollar. Easy peasy. No problems understanding that.

Obviously, that doesn't even come close to the tax rates of the mid-twentieth century. This particular plan wasn't a corporate tax. It was personal income tax. We should be taxing both.

 

 

[fastiller]

32 minutes ago, tres bien said:

Do have a word salad interpreter here?

Today Trump “We’re bringing back religion in our country and we’re bringing it back quickly and strongly”

 

27 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Which religion, asshole?

Mostly it's because of all the people loudly saying "OMG!!!" all the time. 

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

Certainly no culture has a lock on the patriarchy. 

Nope.  Not at all.  But according to certain groups, particularly certain academics, it's 100% related to European culture, particularly the Church.  They've obviously not encountered Confucius and his writing.  

@tearknee I assume you're quoting my post about my issues with certain groups telling people from my background and other "ethnic" (i.e. non-Anglo Protestant/Anglo Protestant adjacent) backgrounds how to feel/think?  I honestly have no clue what your comment has to do with it. 

[Absolom]

43 minutes ago, tres bien said:

Today Trump “We’re bringing back religion in our country and we’re bringing it back quickly and strongly”

It left?  Also he's a fine person to talk about religion. /s

[Dimity]

15 minutes ago, Absolom said:

It left?  Also he's a fine person to talk about religion. /s

He fell asleep at the Pope's funeral.  And he has the nerve to call Biden sleepy.

Edited May 1 by Dimity

[tres bien]

Oklahoma might be the most awful place for school kids

For the 2024-2025 school year all classrooms now have bibles so that the historical and secular significance of the bible can be taught in all areas of education 

A new law about to pass will be studying the discrepancies of the 2020 presidential election including the sudden halting of ballot counting in selected cities in key battleground states unforeseen record number of voters and the unprecedented contradiction of bell weather county trends so that students can draw their own conclusions but lawmakers say they’re not supporting or denying the results of the election 

And this week the SCOTUS heard arguments allowing Oklahoma to use tax dollars to pay for Christian charter schools. A move not supported by the OK attorney general 

Edited May 1 by tres bien

[Cementhead]

13 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Also he's a fine person to talk about religion. /s

Surely you aren't doubting the piousness of a man who stood in front of St. John's Church holding a bible upside down for a publicity stunt.  /s