S11.E28: Trump’s Businesses/2024 Election

[Lantern7]

This week: John finds another angle to examine Trump, then makes a case to vote for Harris. Also: local news on Halloween! Always a fun tradition.

As usual, I’m horrified by the damage a second Trump administration could cause. I can’t see how I’d be affected, I don’t think I was that affected last time, but the mere thought of him being in charge — again — is nauseating. And now, he has new ways to make money off the White House, including trading cards that aren’t tangible. Look, say what you want about Bush 41 and Operation Desert Shield/Storm, but at least the cards made about it fucking existed.

I like how John has issues with Harris. I have friends who don’t see her as a savior, but the alternative is so much worse. At least Harris could be swayed on key issues. Maybe Biden would have changed policy in a few places if he stayed in the running. And I can’t take that face, that voice, that everything. If he loses, as John said, it’s over for him. It’s not like the GOP can Weekend at Bernie’s him four years from now. Yeah, there’s no guarantee Dracula won’t come back if we stake him in the coffin, but why not try it?

I want to live with less stress. And I don’t want to worry about John’s safety if we get the worst case scenario.

ETA: OMG, I forgot about the Trump Trout. Thanks to John for immediately telling us the worst/best thing that could be done with one of those. Also, I hope the Billy Bass guys sue.

Edited November 4 by Lantern7

[Spartan Girl]

John has more patience with these protest voters than I currently have. I understand the anger about Gaza but to act like it’s the only issue that matters when so much else is at stake is ludicrous. If John and that Georgia state representative can suck it up and vote, then they can too.

Edited November 4 by Spartan Girl

[rwlevin]

I just don’t get the people who want to deny Harris the White House. Ironically, my friend was wary of voting for Harris for the exact opposite reason. She felt Harris isn’t strong enough on Gaza. You know what I told her? Take care of your own house first. How can we do anything about Gaza when our rights are being taken away, when we might be arrested or shot at and killed for protesting one way or another? Why can’t Muslim people in the US understand that Trump wants to ban Palestinians from the US and deport the ones already here? He has already made the US a hellhole for immigrants as he spreads lies about them eating pets and stealing jobs and saying they’re being imported from prisons and insane asylums. He stokes the flame of antisemitism by saying if he loses, blame the Jews and is pretty much telling his voters to attack us if he loses tomorrow. (Disclaimer: I’m pro two-state solution and always have been)

 

I’ve been saying since he decided to rerun that I’d vote for my 96 year old grandmother with dementia over him. I’d vote for a paper bag over him. And so I will proudly cast my vote for Harris tomorrow because, just like what Oliver said, I might not agree with everything she says, but at least with Harris, my children and I will have a future. I’m not so sure with the orange guy.

[Shrek]

You could just tell your friend that they won't have to worry about Gaza or Palestine if DJT gets in as his answer to the war there is to wipe Palestine off the face of the earth & problem solved, or so he says.

[Palimelon]

As if the Biden administration isn't doing that already.

[Makai]

14 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

It isn't ridiculous, it's what is actually happening.

So we might as well speed up the process? I’m honestly not trying to be flippant. I truly do not understand this line of thought. What is the endgame?

[peeayebee]

Like John said, Trump would be much worse for Palestine and Muslims. I understand the anger at the Biden administration regarding Israel's attacks on Gaza. But a protest vote -- i.e., not voting for either of the candidates or for whoever else is on the ballot or writing in one -- is like giving a vote to Trump. With how apparently tight most polls say the race is, every vote counts. Fewer votes for Harris means giving more weight to votes for Trump. And he DEFINITELY will be worse for Muslims and countless other groups of people.

In other news...

I really thought that Trumpy Trout was a made-up product, even an ad the show produced. And honestly, it does look like Trumpy Trout is ready to give a blowjob. Seems to be a good match for the microphone-fellating orange one.

John made a comment that Trump should do a proper YMCA dance with his arms raised in the air. Honestly, I don't think he can raise his arms above his head.

Moons over my fanny and trouser hams cracked me up.

I also loved John imitating an 8-yr old talking to someone in the pool on vacation. That was perfect. And his telling RFK Jr to at least wipe his camera lens with a dead bear.

It is absolutely sickening how Trump has made money thru the Presidency and would certainly make more if he is reelected. A good point John made is that foreign countries' stakes in things like Trump's media company would give them leverage over him and therefore over the US. 

I will be horrified if he becomes President again. There's a new, respected poll saying that Harris will win, and I've read other things that say not to despair, that things are looking Blue, but of course I can't ignore the nightmare-inducing possibilities.

[Palimelon]

Quote

So we might as well speed up the process? I’m honestly not trying to be flippant.

So a slower genocide is ok? As long as your only killing 70 people a day instead of 100, then that's acceptable?

A genocide shouldn't be excused just to save a democracy.

Quote

I understand the anger at the Biden administration regarding Israel's attacks on Gaza. But a protest vote -- i.e., not voting for either of the candidates or for whoever else is on the ballot or writing in one -- is like giving a vote to Trump. With how apparently tight most polls say the race is, every vote counts. Fewer votes for Harris means giving more weight to votes for Trump. And he DEFINITELY will be worse for Muslims and countless other groups of people.

Maybe the Democrats need to take a good and long look in the mirror then and wonder why it's such a close race.

[Makai]

4 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

So a slower genocide is ok? As long as your only killing 70 people a day instead of 100, then that's acceptable?

A genocide shouldn't be excused just to save a democracy.

I have no desire to engage in a straw man argument. 

[DoctorAtomic]

11 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I can’t see how I’d be affected, I don’t think I was that affected last time, but the mere thought of him being in charge — again — is nauseating.

I doubt I'd be affected either. The problem with all the alarmism the media is generating is that it's not needed and people are so sick of it they just don't care to vote or will vote third party to stick their finger at everyone. I've said before I don't think much of 2025 will be able to be enacted. However, we have what he will actually say, and we have four years of presidency to draw upon. I'm mainly concerned about foreign policy. He's a hammer always looking for a nail, and we have documented history that he just doesn't grasp the nuance of statecraft and that he's sycophantic to dictators. If another crisis pops up, he's not going to handle it well at all. If Congress flips, we'll get more tax cuts and deficits, and probably a recession. Not to mention the damage from all the executive orders. I think most will be thrown out, but there's a sympathetic scotus now, and we know things like the Muslim ban could go through again. It's just bad policies. On top of that, there's TWO more scotus seats up for grabs. That alone should be enough. 

17 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

But a protest vote -- i.e., not voting for either of the candidates or for whoever else is on the ballot or writing in one -- is like giving a vote to Trump.

I don't want to be condescending, and I understand people having a passion for issues, which is great; far better than 'both sides', but like Obama said, "don't let perfect be the enemy of the good". I would say, be more realpolitik. That's what I liked about Clinton. She probably would have been more hawkish than I would have liked, but you know she was going to put in work, and she was going to do her homework. 

Part of all this is systemic to our elections lasting 4500 years. Everything is analyzed to death. I don't expect candidates to have detailed answers to everything; I appreciate the effort, but, here's what I stand for, here's the top issues I think we need to tackle, let's go. Everything being picked apart to death all the time, it's going to unravel, and no one is going to be happy. All the time also doesn't help the candidates because they have to keep coming up with answers to things that everyone knows no one knows anyway, so they're going to trip up. 

Another thing about 'norms' and 'unwritten rules'. If they're so important; codify them in law. I know some states tried passing laws about tax returns but they got thrown out. Figure something else out then. 

[kittykat]

To those saying they likely won't be affected, I'm not so sure.  Even if you're a straight, white, cis male, if you voted Democrat you're on the list.  And if Trump wins there will definitely be a List.

To John, Thank you thank you THANK YOU for devoting that last portion of the program to perfectly explaining why it is imperative Harris wins tomorrow.

The whole thing about how Trump has profited during his presidency through multiple snake oil ventures is sick.  I honestly had to tune out most of that segment because I can't even look or listen to him anymore.  John is right that of Trump loses hopefully that is it.  Trumpism isn't leaving but hopefully he's done.

38 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

will be horrified if he becomes President again. There's a new, respected poll saying that Harris will win, and I've read other things that say not to despair, that things are looking Blue, but of course I can't ignore the nightmare-inducing possibilities.

Yeah I've had to stop studying polls because they're all over the place.  The only silver lining is that it might draw out undecideds.  Frustratingly, the main reasons it's still neck and neck is that the majority of Trump supporters are two issue voters (guns and abortion)despite their economic ideologies aligning more Democrat.  And there's still a ridiculously stupid amount of people who won't vote Harris because she's a woman.

[DoctorAtomic]

Just now, kittykat said:

To those saying they likely won't be affected, I'm not so sure.  Even if you're a straight, white, cis male, if you voted Democrat you're on the list.  And if Trump wins there will definitely be a List.

I'm a needle in a red haystack. He'll never find me!

2 minutes ago, kittykat said:

The whole thing about how Trump has profited during his presidency through multiple snake oil ventures is sick.

The problem is that the clock ran out on the emoluments case, and there was never a ruling. Again, like I was saying, outside of 2025, he's just so easily manipulated. He didn't come up with 'poisoning the blood'; he's never read a book in his life. Miller and his ilk is whispering in his ear. 

I wouldn't even say a majority of extreme right voters are any issue voters. He just 'tells it like it is'. I don't really think there's much more depth than that. 

[Palimelon]

Quote

supporters are two issue voters (guns and abortion)

Three issues, I'd say. Immigration is up there too for them.

 

[Lantern7]

Heads up to anyone that missed the episode or wants to share with others: the “Election 2024” portion has been posted on YouTube. No wait this time.

 

[peeayebee]

2 hours ago, kittykat said:

To those saying they likely won't be affected, I'm not so sure.

At the very least, there will be economic impacts. Trump plans to deport all undocumented immigrants, which means that agriculture, construction, the hospitality industry, and more will lose thousands and thousands of workers for jobs which Americans don't want to do. Crops will (again) rot in the fields. Construction will slow way down.

Then there are tariffs. The cost of imports will pass on to consumers. China and whatever other country is affected will raise tariffs on our exports, and prices will go up in that way. Maybe China will again stop importing our agricultural products.

Governmental regulations will be weakened or eliminated. How safe will our food be? Our drugs? Oh, and then there's wacko RFK Jr in charge of health, having fluoride removed from water, making us even more unprepared for the next pandemic. And no vaccine mandates, so many parents won't get their kids vaccinated, and illnesses will return and spread.

Those are just things off the top of my head that will affect everyone.

Oh, and we will get more ulcers.

[Anela]

11 hours ago, rwlevin said:

I just don’t get the people who want to deny Harris the White House. Ironically, my friend was wary of voting for Harris for the exact opposite reason. She felt Harris isn’t strong enough on Gaza. You know what I told her? Take care of your own house first. How can we do anything about Gaza when our rights are being taken away, when we might be arrested or shot at and killed for protesting one way or another? Why can’t Muslim people in the US understand that Trump wants to ban Palestinians from the US and deport the ones already here? He has already made the US a hellhole for immigrants as he spreads lies about them eating pets and stealing jobs and saying they’re being imported from prisons and insane asylums. He stokes the flame of antisemitism by saying if he loses, blame the Jews and is pretty much telling his voters to attack us if he loses tomorrow. (Disclaimer: I’m pro two-state solution and always have been)

 

I’ve been saying since he decided to rerun that I’d vote for my 96 year old grandmother with dementia over him. I’d vote for a paper bag over him. And so I will proudly cast my vote for Harris tomorrow because, just like what Oliver said, I might not agree with everything she says, but at least with Harris, my children and I will have a future. I’m not so sure with the orange guy.

I know. I’m pro-Palestinian survival, I’m against what’s happening to them, but I voted for her, because of issues we have here.  I’m not ecstatic, I’m not feeling the joy, because they’ve removed things like “abolishing the death penalty” from their list of causes, too. I don’t know if it’s been added back, but there’s that, and I want her to protect trans adults and kids all over the country.  She’s courted conservatives, over progressives. These are some of the issues that concern me.
 

but I know that he will be all wrong for anything that I believe in. He will do the opposite. I’ve seen posts saying that we survived four years of trump, we can do it again.  A lot of people didn’t survive it, and that includes the after-effects of things like his SCOTUS picks.  
 

Edited November 5 by Anela

[Anela]

9 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I doubt I'd be affected either. The problem with all the alarmism the media is generating is that it's not needed and people are so sick of it they just don't care to vote or will vote third party to stick their finger at everyone. I've said before I don't think much of 2025 will be able to be enacted. However, we have what he will actually say, and we have four years of presidency to draw upon. I'm mainly concerned about foreign policy. He's a hammer always looking for a nail, and we have documented history that he just doesn't grasp the nuance of statecraft and that he's sycophantic to dictators. If another crisis pops up, he's not going to handle it well at all. If Congress flips, we'll get more tax cuts and deficits, and probably a recession. Not to mention the damage from all the executive orders. I think most will be thrown out, but there's a sympathetic scotus now, and we know things like the Muslim ban could go through again. It's just bad policies. On top of that, there's TWO more scotus seats up for grabs. That alone should be enough. 

I don't want to be condescending, and I understand people having a passion for issues, which is great; far better than 'both sides', but like Obama said, "don't let perfect be the enemy of the good". I would say, be more realpolitik. That's what I liked about Clinton. She probably would have been more hawkish than I would have liked, but you know she was going to put in work, and she was going to do her homework. 

Part of all this is systemic to our elections lasting 4500 years. Everything is analyzed to death. I don't expect candidates to have detailed answers to everything; I appreciate the effort, but, here's what I stand for, here's the top issues I think we need to tackle, let's go. Everything being picked apart to death all the time, it's going to unravel, and no one is going to be happy. All the time also doesn't help the candidates because they have to keep coming up with answers to things that everyone knows no one knows anyway, so they're going to trip up. 

Another thing about 'norms' and 'unwritten rules'. If they're so important; codify them in law. I know some states tried passing laws about tax returns but they got thrown out. Figure something else out then. 

If we lose the Senate, we can’t codify anything.  

6 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Heads up to anyone that missed the episode or wants to share with others: the “Election 2024” portion has been posted on YouTube. No wait this time.

 

Thank you.  I haven’t watched it yet.  

[heatherchandler]

12 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

will vote third party to stick their finger at everyone

People vote third party because we very much need a third party.

 

18 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

John has more patience with these protest voters than I currently have. I understand the anger about Gaza but to act like it’s the only issue that matters when so much else is at stake is ludicrous. If John and that Georgia state representative can suck it up and vote, then they can too.

People have the right to decide what is important to them and vote that way.  It’s so condescending to decide for others what should be more important.
 

 

9 hours ago, peeayebee said:

At the very least, there will be economic impacts. Trump plans to deport all undocumented immigrants, which means that agriculture, construction, the hospitality industry, and more will lose thousands and thousands of workers for jobs which Americans don't want to do. Crops will (again) rot in the fields. Construction will slow way down.

Then there are tariffs. The cost of imports will pass on to consumers. China and whatever other country is affected will raise tariffs on our exports, and prices will go up in that way. Maybe China will again stop importing our agricultural products.

Governmental regulations will be weakened or eliminated. How safe will our food be? Our drugs? Oh, and then there's wacko RFK Jr in charge of health, having fluoride removed from water, making us even more unprepared for the next pandemic. And no vaccine mandates, so many parents won't get their kids vaccinated, and illnesses will return and spread.

Those are just things off the top of my head that will affect everyone.

Oh, and we will get more ulcers.

Did these things happen during the first Trump presidency?  

[Anela]

28 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

People vote third party because we very much need a third party.

 

People have the right to decide what is important to them and vote that way.  It’s so condescending to decide for others what should be more important.
 

 

Did these things happen during the first Trump presidency?  

They are things that he is promising *now*.   And how much did happen in the first term? The Muslim ban, where a friend of mine from Iran, was afraid that he would be booted out of the country, or wouldn’t be allowed back in, if he left.  SCOTUS judges, and everything they’ve done - more will be chosen, in the coming years.  He said that women should be punished, if they have an abortion. The overturning of Roe, happened because of him, not Biden. 
 

he wanted governors to suck up to him, in order to get what they needed, to fight Covid in their States. He sent valuable tests to Putin. He knew how bad it was, but said that he didn’t want to tell people. His son- in-law said that they shouldn’t help the blue States, and that would help to win him the election.  In 2017, when I was sitting in the van, eating my dinner, as my dad walked the dogs, I saw information on social media, about what to do in the event of a nuclear attack. Because he’d pissed someone off.  He shut down the government, when demanding money for a border wall. 
 

I’m not remembering nearly everything, I’m sure. 

And I’ve voted third -party before.  I’m not completely against it, and there is a place where you can sign up to swap your vote with someone in a “safe” State to vote third-party, if you don’t want to vote for Kamala, because of Gaza, but you don’t want trump to win, either.  So, the person in the safely blue state, will vote third-party for you. I just heard about this tonight.  

Edited November 5 by Anela

[Anela]

He literally promised to deport all undocumented immigrants.  He said that people wouidn’t have to be upset by crying families being separated, because the kids were citizens if they were born here.  All family members wouid be deported together.  He also said that it could be bloody.  
 

https://civilrights.org/trump-rollbacks/

I need to try to take a nap. I want to go to work with my dad in about five hours.  If I can make it. 

Edited November 5 by Anela

[Annber03]

22 hours ago, Anela said:

If we lose the Senate, we can’t codify anything.  

I think this is the other thing people really don't stop to think about when it comes to whether or not they should vote for Harris. She could be the most progressive, left-wing candidate we've ever had in this country and could be as pro-Palestine as it gets, but if she's up against a conservative-leaning Supreme Court and a GOP led Congress, none of that is going to fucking matter. They're going to do everything in their power to block any progressive stuff she supports as much as humanly possible. 

I fully understand people wanting candidates that are far more progressive than what the Democrats tend to usually offer up. But John's right that a lot of this stuff happens in increments. There were/are plenty of people in the GOP who privately can't stand Trump, or who wouldn't have him as their first choice candidate. But they still got behind him because at the end of the day they knew thier pushing and thier support would get them what they wanted in the end. They played the long game, and look at what they got. A Supreme Court that bends to their will, abortion bans all over the place, more and more legislation trying to restrict/ban LGBTQ+ rights, more ability to insert religious beliefs into law, etc. 

Meanwhile, we're over here wringing our hands about whether or not our candidates are "perfect" enough for us and what exactly do we have to show for that? We need to learn to play the long game, too. We need to focus on the bigger picture. If Harris wins, I hope the pro-Palestinian side gets in her ear more and does a lot more to help get what they want from her administration in regards to the Middle East. We absolutely should continue to do what we can to push the Democrats more in the directions we want them to go. 

But while we're doing that, we also need to learn to work with and build off of what we have. I would much rather work with someone who I know I will agree with some of the time, rather than be stuck with someone whose polciies I don't agree with at all and which I know will benefit absolutely nobody who isn't straight/white/Christian/male/rich. 

I'd also note that how candidates behave on the campaign trail isn't always an indication of how they'll govern. Remember how muted Obama was on gay marraige when he ran in 2008? I voted for hiim, but that was one area where I was quite critical of him. 

And yet, what became legal during his time in office? And why was that able to happen? Because he had the ability to ensure we had a Supreme Court that would rule to make same-sex marriage legal. He had the ear of people who pushed to make that issue more of a priority. Also helped that that ruling came down during his second term - a lot of presidents are able to be let off the leash a little more in their second term, because they don't have reelection to worry about, so they're able to focus more on what they want to achieve. 

People really just need to think about things like this, and think in long term. I have my particular issues that matter most to me, too, that are my main reasons for voting. But I'm also voting because of what I think will benefit others at large. And while I share in people's critiques of some of Harris' policy stances, while I echo the sentiments of pro-Palestine people who want her administration to be more committed to focusing on their concerns., there's also plenty about her that I do support, much of which John listed. And she will certainly be far more likely to listen to Palestinians and their supporters than Trump ever would. 

Just...we've tried the whole, "Well, I'll just sit this election out, 'cause this isn't my ideal candidate." method before. It's never worked. It doesn't make anyone happy - the people who sat it out still aren't satisfied with the candidates that come next - Hillary wasn't progressive enough, then Biden wasn't, now Harris isn't. Howl long are they going to sit and wait until their ideal candidate comes along? And what if they never do? What then? 

And meanwhile, the other people who suffer under politicians like Trump are angry and frusrated because none of this would've happened if more people had turned out and voted for the candidate that wasn't perfect, no, but would've still been a damn sight better than Trump or other candidates like him. 

So I just...don't see what sitting it out and not voting achieves. It solves nothing. It just adds to the mess that's already there. It doesn't convince anyone who did vote that the non-voters made the right choice. 

And, again, I'll also note that given we have many people out there who actively work to try and restrict people's access to voting as it is, and who've openly made comments about wanting to go back to the days when certain groups of people didn't have the right to vote, maybe, I dunno, stop giving them more ammunition for that cause? I think that's the part that really pisses me off most about the people who don't vote, it feels like such a slap in the face to those who fought to ensure we have that right at all. And then the white men who refuse to vote - they've never had to fight for that right and they're just out there taking it for granted. 

Anyway. There's my thoughts on that. 

As for Trump and his business stuff, unfortunately, I have seen that Trumpy Trout commercial before. I've also seen the one for the Trumpy Bear. So, yeah. It sadly does not surprise me. 

But honestly, the most infuriating thing is how Trump always, ALWAYS  seems to find a way to get around all these regulations that do exist, or knows how to run out the clock so that he never has to be held accountable for any of his shit. Like John said, any other politician, this would be disqualifying. Their political career would end right then and there. Yet somehow Trump skates free. It needs to stop. I don't know what it will take or who will have the guts to do it, but if he loses, someone needs to FINALLY put a stop to his free ride once and for all. 

John's end comment, though, the idea of Trump going back to just being a nuisance instead of a daily source of anxiety and stress - if that isn't a convincing enough argument, I odn't know what is. It's been a long, long decade. I'm tired. I'm exhausted. And I think everyone else who isn't still a diehard Trump supporter is, too. It just...needs to stop. 

Edited November 6 by Annber03

[purist]

Brava, @Annber03. I love your whole post!

[MaryMitch]

I heard this good analogy - voting isn't like getting into a taxi where they get you exactly where you want to go. It's like getting into a bus or subway - you pick the vehicle that will get you closest. And the choices are built by where the most people want to go.

[peeayebee]

7 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

Did these things happen during the first Trump presidency?  

Regarding tariffs, yes. The US importers pay the tariffs and pass it on to consumers. Then there are retaliatory tariffs. China retaliated, and Trump had to pay billions of dollars to US farmers because their crops weren't being bought.

There are many examples where States have cracked down on illegal immigrants, and crops went unpicked. Americans won't work those jobs.

And of course in his first term, Trump had "guardrails." There were people in his Administration who were able to talk him out of things he wanted to do. That will be different if he's elected this time. He and his political supporters learned their lesson. He will be surrounded by yes-men and others who have exactly the same agenda as he does. Project 2025? Some people say there's no way any of the Project 2025 plans will come to fruition. I certainly don't want to take that chance.

[Makai]

11 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

Did these things happen during the first Trump presidency?  

If Trump gets a second presidency the conditions will be wildly different than his first. Republicans like McCain and Romney are gone. Nearly everyone who was a part of his presidency is gone and has been replaced with people who are less likely to challenge him. The Speaker is way less likely to challenge him. The Supreme Court is extremely friendly to him and has ruled that the president has a disturbing level of immunity. He wouldn’t have to worry about re-election and he has clearly already given up trying to appeal to anyone other than his base. 

Edited November 5 by Makai

[Lugal]

12 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

People vote third party because we very much need a third party.

At least with regard to Palestine it's like the old joke, "I'd settle for a second."   I can't blame people who find both candidates unacceptable and support for the killing of your extended family definitely qualifies there.  If the line can't be drawn at genocide, then where?

That said, I understand Kamala is between a rock and a hard place, if she comes out for Gaza, then AIPAC cash will flood into Trump's campaign.  The question is if she distanced herself enough from Biden to make a difference.

[heatherchandler]

24 minutes ago, Lugal said:

At least with regard to Palestine it's like the old joke, "I'd settle for a second."   I can't blame people who find both candidates unacceptable and support for the killing of your extended family definitely qualifies there.  If the line can't be drawn at genocide, then where?

 

Right!  And everyone has to draw their own line, and I respect that.  It’s very condescending to tell someone else that I know better than them and they need to move their line.

[heatherchandler]

20 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Regarding tariffs, yes. The US importers pay the tariffs and pass it on to consumers. Then there are retaliatory tariffs. China retaliated, and Trump had to pay billions of dollars to US farmers because their crops weren't being bought.

There are many examples where States have cracked down on illegal immigrants, and crops went unpicked. Americans won't work those jobs.

And of course in his first term, Trump had "guardrails." There were people in his Administration who were able to talk him out of things he wanted to do. That will be different if he's elected this time. He and his political supporters learned their lesson. He will be surrounded by yes-men and others who have exactly the same agenda as he does. Project 2025? Some people say there's no way any of the Project 2025 plans will come to fruition. I certainly don't want to take that chance.

I don’t know much about the tariffs, I’m sure that’s true.  But stores/companies/restaurants seem to be passing on a lot of extra fees and price increases to everything.  I know my bank account was much better off in 2017, 2018 & 2019.  I went on 3 vacations a year back then, now I’m at 1 vacation and a few local weekends.  Yeah I’m lucky to do even that but I feel like overall, for me, those years were better.  And I make more now.

I think that project 2025 is not really a thing, Trump mentioned that he didn’t know much about it.  I’m sure he has people around him who are not good people who would want to do some of that stuff but I’m sure there are bad actors around Harris too.

Edited November 6 by heatherchandler

[Shrek]

24 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

 

I think that project 2025 is not really a thing, Trump mentioned that he didn’t know much about it.  I’m sure he has people around him who are not good people who would want to do some of that stuff but I’m sure there are bad actors around Harris too.

And you believe him when he says that despite being mentioned in it numerous times & the main architects of it being in his close circle? It really is a thing, it's there in black & white, in ink on paper, I'm really not sure why people think it's not a thing. 

At the end of the day he's a grifter always looking for the next grift, he's a good grifter though, maybe the greatest there ever was but a grifter nonetheless. He's also a very good orator, he always says what people he's talking to want to hear, some would say (mainly him) the greatest orator there ever was, but I think Hitler has him beat in that department, just.  But I'm sure he would disagree with that.

[Annber03]

10 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Project 2025? Some people say there's no way any of the Project 2025 plans will come to fruition. I certainly don't want to take that chance.

This. Will they be able to get every aspect of Project 2025 implmented right away? Probably not, no, But I also don't think it is something that's meant to be completely implemented right away. It'll be a thing that'll be slowly rolled out over time. 

But yeah. Give them an inch, and all that. Even having just a fraction of any of that made legal would be a nightmare for our country. 

3 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

I don’t know much at the tariffs, I’m sure that’s true.  But stores/companies/restaurants seem to be passing on a lot of extra fees and price increases to everything.  I know my bank account was much better off in 2017, 2018 & 2019.  I went on 3 vacations a year back then, now I’m at 1 vacation and a few local weekends.  Yeah I’m lucky to do even that but I feel like overall, for me, those years were better.  And I make more now.

I live in Iowa. I can vouch for the thing of Trump having to pay farmers, that happened. I mainly remember that in large part because a lot of the people who were more than happy to take that government handout were the same ones railing about other groups of people getting government aid. 

As for prices going up, a lot of that can be blamed on corporations and companies taking advantage of the economic situation in this country. That's corporate greed running rampant more than anything. There are things the adminstration can do to try and rein that in, but again, that would require Congress working together, and when one party just goes around either blocking every piece of legislation that comes through or bends to the will of their party's leader because he doesn't want the other party to get a win, well... 

The bottom line remains, though, that comparatively speaking, inflation in this country has been much lower than in other parts of the world. 

Quote

I think that project 2025 is not really a thing, Trump mentioned that he didn’t know much about it. 

Trump says he doesn't know a lot about a lot of things and people that he knows will get him in some kind of trouble. He hasn't exactly proven to be the most trustworthy guy on the planet, after all. Even if he doesn't personally care one way or another about policies like that, he's not exactly going to stand in the way of those who try to implment it. 

[Makai]

11 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Some people say there's no way any of the Project 2025 plans will come to fruition. I certainly don't want to take that chance.

Every time I see people saying the something in Project 2025 will never happen and it’s just fear mongering, I am reminded of all the people who said Roe would never be overturned. And now we have pregnant women dying because they can’t get healthcare in states with abortion bans. 

[Lugal]

4 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

I don’t know much at the tariffs, I’m sure that’s true.  But stores/companies/restaurants seem to be passing on a lot of extra fees and price increases to everything.  I know my bank account was much better off in 2017, 2018 & 2019.  I went on 3 vacations a year back then, now I’m at 1 vacation and a few local weekends.  Yeah I’m lucky to do even that but I feel like overall, for me, those years were better.  And I make more now.

Tariffs are different than inflation, because by slapping a tariff on something that cost will be passed onto the customer (especially the 100% or more that Trump talks about).  Tariffs targeted are to protect domestic manufacturing.  However we don't have any manufacturing here anymore, we're dependent on cheap goods from China.  But Trump throws them around like crazy and he just guaranteed that a lot of prices on necessities will go up, possibly by a lot (And China has plenty of other markets to sell to).  Will it stimulate domestic manufacturing here?  Maybe, maybe not, and either way, it will take years to spin up and a lot of that manufacturing will be automated anyway.

56 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

This. Will they be able to get every aspect of Project 2025 implmented right away? Probably not, no, But I also don't think it is something that's meant to be completely implemented right away. It'll be a thing that'll be slowly rolled out over time. 

I think a lot will get hung up in the courts for the next few years, and some of it will get stopped, but some will get through.  It can cause a lot of damage in the meantime.

[andromeda331]

I don't get the protesting by not voting when the alternative is Trump winning. Biden hasn't done anything for the Palastine people and I don't know if Harris will. But we do know that Trump will be worse, he has said what he'll do and he'll throw out every undocument immigrant, he's definiatey pro-Israel doing anything it wants. Your shooting yourself in the foot. 

I wish we had a stronger third party or more. But I don't see it ever happening. Theodore Roosevelt was a third party candidate in 1912 election and he was so popular at the time. He was a war hero, he knocked down monoplies and took on the rich, he inspired the Teddy bear. And even he couldn't pull it off. He came in second on votes. He was the closest If he couldn't do it with his popularty I can see anyone else doing it.

[Annber03]

8 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I wish we had a stronger third party or more. But I don't see it ever happening. Theodore Roosevelt was a third party candidate in 1912 election and he was so popular at the time. He was a war hero, he knocked down monoplies and took on the rich, he inspired the Teddy bear. And even he couldn't pull it off. He came in second on votes. He was the closest If he couldn't do it with his popularty I can see anyone else doing it.

I think that's the thing that frustrates me the most about third party voters. Just going in every couple years and slapping down a third party vote isn't going to magically make said third party candidate win. In order to have a proper third party running in this country, we would need to do a major overhaul of how our electiosn are run and handled and done, and that's going to take a lot of time and work and effort. 

And there's also the fact that a lot of people who vote third party, in my experience, are those who do so simply because "both sides are equally bad", which, if one still believes that in this day and age, is....beyond laughable. Surely there has to be at least ONE issue that you come down on one side or the other for. But no, they think they're just so "enlightened" and above all this "picking a party" stuff.  It's just annoying. 

[peeayebee]

31 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

He was a war hero, he knocked down monoplies and took on the rich, he inspired the Teddy bear.

Well, it ain't no Trump Trout.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

Well, it ain't no Trump Trout.

So true. Only Trump could inspire that.

[JustHereForFood]

Is there even anything resembling a decent third party in the US? They all look like a joke. 

On 11/4/2024 at 4:30 PM, Palimelon said:

As if the Biden administration isn't doing that already.

They absolutely are not. I wish people would stop throwing words around like they don't me anything.

[Anela]

Trump was talking about turning Gaza into beachfront property. He said that it could be better than Monaco.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-gaza-oceanfront-comments-rebuild-israel-2024-10

[Palimelon]

Quote

They absolutely are not. I wish people would stop throwing words around like they don't me anything.

I wish people would actually follow what's going on there and see just how much destruction has happened there.

Quote

Trump was talking about turning Gaza into beachfront property. He said that it could be better than Monaco.

Israelis have already been bragging talking about how they will be moving back to Gaza as soon as they can, for months now (Hell you can find advertisements in Israel for homes in southern Lebanon too).

Edited November 6 by Palimelon

[purist]

I can only imagine how John and his writers are feeling right now. I'm so, so tired. 😭

[Annber03]

2 minutes ago, purist said:

I can only imagine how John and his writers are feeling right now. I'm so, so tired. 😭

You and me both. What the goddamn fuck. 

Edited November 6 by Annber03

[CM-BlueButterfly]

Hi guys, 

as we're all feeling a range of emotions, kindly focus on facts and avoid potentially inflammatory statement, accusations or personal attacks. 

Please keep in mind that it can be helpful to take a moment before replying, too. 

If you need a place to express how you feel, please head on over here: https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/150441-chit-chat-the-feels/

Thank you. 

 

 

[kittykat]

Welp I'm not looking forward to next week's episode.  I'll take my thoughts to the new thread but I'll only say if I had to choose a group of boardies to get drunk with today I choose this sub.

[Lantern7]

I don’t know if I can rewatch this episode. I might delete it from the DVR.

[iMonrey]

I couldn't watch this episode. I was stressed out enough as it was and didn't need the crap scared out of me anymore than it already was.

And now I'll never be able to watch it.

[Lantern7]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I couldn't watch this episode. I was stressed out enough as it was and didn't need the crap scared out of me anymore than it already was.

And now I'll never be able to watch it.

How about this: play it on mute, don't turn on captions, and unmute every time you see something the graphics team cooked up.

I can't blame you for not watching.

[Hanahope]

Yeah I didn’t get a chance to watch before Tuesday either and now I don’t have the stomach to do so

Edited November 11 by Hanahope

[MaryMitch]

14 hours ago, Hanahope said:

Yeah I didn’t get a chance to watch before Tuesday either and now I don’t have the stomach to do so

You might want to - John is pretty pissed, might make you feel like you're not alone.

BTW - lots of people venting in this thread:

edited to add:  I should have posted this in the "Election Results" thread - THAT's where he's pissed!

Edited November 11 by MaryMitch