S04.E05: A Star Is Dead

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Skooma said:

Vikings" (which were the raider element of Norse society and not an ethnic term) were not very nice people in reality.  Even the really well-made TV series "Vikings" where they are the protagonists made that clear.

I think Thor always drops a line that makes it clear that Viking culture glorified violence and cruelty. Thor seems to generally embody the concept of nurture being more key than nature, but not entirely.

Edited Saturday at 10:11 AM by shapeshifter

[Badsamaritan]

On 11/14/2024 at 11:12 PM, PaulE said:

But no Thor!  This is now the third episode in which one of the major ghosts isn't featured, isn't it?  I wonder what's up with that.  By now it almost seems deliberate yet I can't guess what they writers have in mind by doing it.

My theory is that CBS chose to back the Brinks truck up to Kathy's door to get her to star in a weekly tv series and slashed everyone else's budget to pay for it instead of giving up any exec salaries and bonuses. But I'm cynical that way. 🤷🏽‍♀️

I think smaller groups of ghosts makes sense sometimes especially as a viewer, it's easier to focus on the background character reactions in a given scene. When they're all together I miss a lot of the actors' physical reactions since I can only watch so many at a time. And they're all so good at 'acting' in the background of scenes so I really enjoy watching them. 

As someone else mentioned, it would've been cool to see a kid reacting to seeing Alberta. Mark was in the play, it would've been a perfect time to see his son again in the audience watching the performance. Missed opportunity for a small scene to have a big impact. The boy could've even waved bye to the ghosts watching in the back of the room, a nice reminder about some kids being able to see them plus a callback to Mark's son's visit to the house in S1.

I'm getting irritated by Jay's continued mistreatment at the hands of literally every soul in his home though. Please do not have the ghosts fuck around with his restaurant once it finally opens, show. For me, that would cross a line into extremely malicious behavior by the ghosts. Just, don't. 

[Lugal]

This one was fun, and we got to see how talented Rose McIver is. She has an incredible singing voice, but the scene where she taps with the plate on her head, that's skill.  Followed by Jay's "Where are all our plates?"

Pete's still smug, but after seeing him taken down a peg or two last week, he doesn't seem quite as bad.

On 11/15/2024 at 9:25 AM, iMonrey said:

And sue me, but I thought sabotaging Marissa by having Flower walk through her was a solid plan. {shrugs}

I can see why Alberta would go there, since we saw her passed over for jobs despite her talent, so I can see how she could believe in Sam but still want a hedge.  And that was probably the best plan.  But even Flower points out that telling Flower was the weak part.

On 11/15/2024 at 5:39 AM, shura said:

Yeah, I didn’t see any realization on Sass’s part that he is attracted to Jay.  I only saw the realization that he wasn’t actually dating Marissa and the disappointment at that.  This is why he immediately jumped at Pete’s offer.  (I loved how Trevor was all over it too and was trying to “put in an order” for a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader and calling Sass selfish when Sass wanted to keep Pete’s services for himself only.)

I didn't either, he was attracted to Marissa, the pretty girl who happened to show up in Jay's dreams.  If anything, it was more like he was dating Jay's imaginary friend.

Really, Sass should have had Sam comp the real Marissa a few nights at the Woodstone, so he could meet the real one.

[iMonrey]

10 minutes ago, Lugal said:

but the scene where she taps with the plate on her head, that's skill.  Followed by Jay's "Where are all our plates?"

I thought that was kind of dumb. They don't have money to throw around, why would Sam break all of their plates? She could have used books. 

Quote

Why would it have anything to do about the budget?  I believe actor contracts on TV shows are based on years (seasons).  Not the number of episodes they appear in.

Budget is the most likely reason. Salaries go up a little every year, and we're into our fourth season now and it's a fairly large cast. It's suspicious that just one of the main eight ghosts would be missing the past three episodes and it's been a different one each time. 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

It's suspicious that just one of the main eight ghosts would be missing the past three episodes and it's been a different one each time. 

Haven't they always done it that way? 

[chaifan]

It would be cute if somewhere in the second half of the season, they tie into the "missing" ghosts by having them all be purposely absent because they were working on a special surprise for Sam & Jay.  I don't know what that could be, given their limitations, but they could think of something.

Or, it could be that they're all taking turns (except Issac) keeping Nigel company in the shed.  That would be an easy one.  Where's Thor?  Oh, it's his turn to keep Nigel company. 

 

 

[Annber03]

23 minutes ago, chaifan said:

It would be cute if somewhere in the second half of the season, they tie into the "missing" ghosts by having them all be purposely absent because they were working on a special surprise for Sam & Jay.  I don't know what that could be, given their limitations, but they could think of something.

Or, it could be that they're all taking turns (except Issac) keeping Nigel company in the shed.  That would be an easy one.  Where's Thor?  Oh, it's his turn to keep Nigel company.

Awwwwwww. I like these ideas :). 

[PaulE]

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I think Thor always drops a line that makes it clear that Viking culture glorified violence and cruelty. Thor seems to generally embody the concept of nurture being more key than nature, but not entirely.

And he's always so gleeful when he talks about it!  Like it's just another day at the office.  That alternates with his trying to be a more modern, sensitive guy.  I think the writers created him as a stone-cold killer harboring an inner teddy bear.  To me, the absurdity of that is what makes him so funny.

Though in real life, in addition to being relatively casual about sexuality, Norsemen were generally considered to be family men in terms of looking after them, making toys for the kids and teaching them stuff, etc. Granted, if you're talking the Dark Ages the bar would be set pretty low, and I have visions of a Viking hand-crafting a knife for his little boy and then teaching him how to murder someone with it efficiently.  But when we saw that flashback of Thor leaving his wife and baby son, he did seem to have affection for them.  I imagine he must have missed them as a new ghost, especially knowing he'd never see his son grow up.  And he couldn't even murder another Dane as compensation.

[Annber03]

7 minutes ago, PaulE said:

And he's always so gleeful when he talks about it!  Like it's just another day at the office.  That alternates with his trying to be a more modern, sensitive guy.  I think the writers created him as a stone-cold killer harboring an inner teddy bear.  To me, the absurdity of that is what makes him so funny.

It also ties well into how all the characters are on this show - they all have this public persona that's very different from how they actually are, both with each other and in general. 

(I also wonder sometimes if some of Thor's violent stories are made up or exaggerated just to intentionaly scare the others and help keep his "big tough intimidating guy" persona :p. He has shown he does seem to enjoy messing with the others sometimes, notably in how he seems to know so many modern words yet still refers to cars as "landships" and the like, so... Certainly wouldn't be the first time any one of the ghosts lied about being part of or witness to something to make themselves seem more important and tough and so forth than they actually were, after all.)

[kathyk2]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Haven't they always done it that way? 

During the first season two ghosts would be missing per episode. This was probably due to Covid restrictions. It's annoying to see CBS treat Ghosts like a second class citizen. Other shows received more publicity and special air dates.

[Chit Chat]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Haven't they always done it that way? 

I realized that I never paid attention that closely to see that a main ghost is usually missing!  There's always so much going on in the episode that I figured they were in there somewhere, but it's pretty noticeable to me this season!

[Skooma]

On 11/16/2024 at 12:40 PM, iMonrey said:

I thought that was kind of dumb. They don't have money to throw around, why would Sam break all of their plates? She could have used books. 

Budget is the most likely reason. Salaries go up a little every year, and we're into our fourth season now and it's a fairly large cast. It's suspicious that just one of the main eight ghosts would be missing the past three episodes and it's been a different one each time. 

No, plates breaking are way more funny in a comedy show and set up that great line at the end where Jay asks where all the plates have gone.  This isn't a show about economics and budgeting.  There will always be an old watch or another book written about another ghosts to fill that boring stuff in.

And no it is not about budget.  They save no money at all having an actor out for an episode.  These guys have been signed to multi-year contracts.  It is all about the writers trying to squeeze in a large ensemble.  Which they did fine with after they stopped the rotation in Season 1.  Don't know why they went back to it but the actors are being screwed out of any money having an episode off.

On 11/16/2024 at 2:28 PM, shapeshifter said:

Haven't they always done it that way? 

Early episodes of Season 1 they rotated then promised they wouldn't do it again when fans started to complain but they are doing this again this year.

22 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

... It's annoying to see CBS treat Ghosts like a second class citizen. Other shows received more publicity and special air dates.

Huh?  I see Ghosts constantly being promoted on CBS.  Every other show it is promoted during commercial breaks and even during every NFL game CBS carries.  Massive promotions.  They are everywhere.  And many of the episodes  are repeated a lot in the summer and run up to the new season as well.

And the new special ads that no other show has ever EVER gotten on Survivor is a massive publicity perk for Ghosts.  Also more money for the Ghosts actors with 2 or 3 of them sitting on their couch commenting on the Survivor episode.  A very clever and great crossover for Ghosts.

The only real second class citizen regards promotion on CBS throughout the years has always been The Amazing Race and most fans including me remain pissed at that.

Edited 1 hour ago by Skooma

[kathyk2]

3 hours ago, Skooma said:

No, plates breaking are way more funny in a comedy show and set up that great line at the end where Jay asks where all the plates have gone.  This isn't a show about economics and budgeting.  There will always be an old watch or another book written about another ghosts to fill that boring stuff in.

And no it is not about budget.  They save no money at all having an actor out for an episode.  These guys have been signed to multi-year contracts.  It is all about the writers trying to squeeze in a large ensemble.  Which they did fine with after they stopped the rotation in Season 1.  Don't know why they went back to it but the actors are being screwed out of any money having an episode off.

Early episodes of Season 1 they rotated then promised they wouldn't do it again when fans started to complain but they are doing this again this year.

Huh?  I see Ghosts constantly being promoted on CBS.  Ever other show it is promoted during commercial breaks and even during ever NFL game CBS carries.  Massive promotions.  They are everywhere.  And many of the episodes  are repeated a lot in the summer and run up to the new season as well.

And the new special ads that no other show has ever EVER gotten on Survivor is a massive publicity perk for Ghosts.  Also more money for the Ghosts actors with 2 or 3 of them sitting on their couch commenting on the Survivor episode.  A very clever and great crossover for Ghosts.

The only real second class citizen regards promotion on CBS throughout the years has always been The Amazing Race and most fans including me remain pissed at that.

Matlock and the Summit received special airings after NFL football. I saw many ads for Georgie and Mandy's First Marriage and NCIS Origins before they aired.

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, kathyk2 said:

Matlock and the Summit received special airings after NFL football. I saw many ads for Georgie and Mandy's First Marriage and NCIS Origins before they aired.

They're new shows, though (well, I don't know if "The Summit" is, but the other shows are) so they're going to get heavy promotion for that reason alone as a result. I remember being bombarded with promos for "Ghsots" when its first season was airing, too. But now that the show is in its fourth season and more stable and settled, they probably don't feel they need to push it so heavily as a result. 

"Ghosts" and Stephen Colbert's late show are the only things I personally watch on CBS, so I don't know how much promotion "Ghosts" gets iduring most of their other programming in general nowadays, but I do know I do see at least one ad for the show each night when watching Colbert. 

[chaifan]

9 hours ago, Skooma said:

The only real second class citizen regards promotion on CBS throughout the years has always been The Amazing Race and most fans including me remain pissed at that.

Wouldn't it be hilarious to have Pete trapse through an Amazing Race challenge, and have the rest of the ghosts at home watching see him?  (Of course, he'd be all, oh, that was a year ago, I've been sooooo many other places since then... let me tell you about them...)

I can't remember...  when Pete was in Aruba (or wherever he first traveled to) and phoned home, were the ghosts able to see each other on the video call?  Do we know whether ghosts can see other ghosts on tv/video, or in pictures?  

 

 

[iMonrey]

12 hours ago, Skooma said:

And no it is not about budget.  They save no money at all having an actor out for an episode.  These guys have been signed to multi-year contracts.

The actors are paid per episode. Not per season. With a built-in bump in per episode pay every year the show is renewed. Usually for five years, and afterwards contracts are re-negotiated. 

So, yes, budget is definitely a consideration if not the sole reason. If the actors are getting more money per episode but are written out of one or two of them, it even things out, budget-wise. Otherwise the network has to cough up more money, and networks are loathe to do that if they can help it. 

With this kind of show, and such a large cast, it's easy enough to write someone out without affecting the story. The writers may be under instruction to do so in order to keep costs down. And if they can keep costs down it makes it more likely for the show to get renewed. This is a business and it always comes down to money. There is no other logical reason to simply have Thor, or Sass, or Flower absent. They didn't have anything for the character to do? They found something for Hetty and Trevor to do even though they weren't directly involved in either storyline.

So yeah . . . it's money. It's just money.

[Annber03]

5 hours ago, chaifan said:

I can't remember...  when Pete was in Aruba (or wherever he first traveled to) and phoned home, were the ghosts able to see each other on the video call?  Do we know whether ghosts can see other ghosts on tv/video, or in pictures?  

Not that we're aware of, no. Sam couldn't see them when they all tried to Facetime her in "Holes are Bad", and when Freddie was trying to show that ghosts existed and played teh video of the keys moving on their own, all you saw was the keys moving, youcouldn't see the ghost on camera. 

[Bastet]

24 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Not that we're aware of, no. Sam couldn't see them when they all tried to Facetime her in "Holes are Bad", and when Freddie was trying to show that ghosts existed and played teh video of the keys moving on their own, all you saw was the keys moving, youcouldn't see the ghost on camera. 

Those are livings not seeing ghosts on camera, though.  The question was about ghosts seeing other ghosts on video, but I don't remember Pete video calling home during his Caribbean adventure.

[Annber03]

2 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Those are livings not seeing ghosts on camera, though.  The question was about ghosts seeing other ghosts on video, but I don't remember Pete video calling home during his Caribbean adventure.

Oh, I know. But the ghosts saw that same video Freddie showed Sam and Jay and they couldn't see any ghosts on the camera, either. Should've added that into my last post for clarification. 

And you're right, Pete didn't call home during his Caribbean trip. He was too busy hanging out with Donna and then trying to make sure his body didn't disappear completely :p. 

[Skooma]

14 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

Matlock and the Summit received special airings after NFL football. I saw many ads for Georgie and Mandy's First Marriage and NCIS Origins before they aired.

So?  CBS advertises all it's shows.  They don't advertise Ghosts less like the first person said is what I was pointing out.  Of course they advertise other shows and replay them.  But they don't get MORE attention from CBS than Ghosts.  Ghosts isn't some orphaned show never advertised.

And, again, with the new Survivor / Ghosts ads Ghosts gets more than those other shows given Survivor's continued high ratings.

And the Ghosts episodes that were repeated I was talking about were from last year to help catch new viewers up.  These other shows are new and don't have any old shows to replay.

[chaifan]

OK, so I must be remembering something different.  I thought Pete called home when he was disappearing.  I can't go back and check the episode, because I don't have Paramount+ or CBS paid access. 

I suppose it wouldn't be a good thing if ghosts could see other ghosts in video/film/tv.  It would make any show/movie impossible for them to watch. 

But Pete wandering into an Amazing Race challenge would still make a fun crossover promo.  😁

[possibilities]

I'm thinking the actors don't get residuals for episodes they aren't in, so they lose over the long term, regardless of what they are getting paid now.