Season 21: E4

[DEL901]

And the beat goes on. 

[dizzyd]

Haha, Jesse is the reason they don’t eat on dates. I’d forgotten they used to in the beginning and that it all ended after his season. 

Ugh, I think I’ll be skipping Joan’s golden season.

Please tell me they’re not going to make gorgeous NZ as lackluster as they did Australia. 

Edited July 30 by dizzyd

[JenE4]

I just had the strangest experience. Before Jenn came on screen and all of the guys were just hooting and hollering about how Auckland is the perfect place to fall in love, I realized I was picturing Desiree as the Bachelorette. I mean, I realize Jenn was not memorable from last season, but Desiree was a really long time ago! Should I be worried about early onset dementia?! Yikes!

Anyhoo, Jesse was the one who forced people to starve to death on “dinner dates”?!

[DEL901]

So Sam over rode Jenn’s wishes and told her she had to jump.   Jerk.   There is supportive and assholish.  He is the latter.  

[JenE4]

Um, are we supposed to pretend that Jenn didn’t just go sky diving last week?!? (Or was that Desiree? 🤣) But I guess anything to make Jenn realize Sam is a jerk is a good thing. Is he tricking her that they’re going for a walk and will just push her off?!?

Edited July 30 by JenE4

[call me ishmael]

5 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

 

I just had the strangest experience. Before Jenn came on screen and all of the guys were just hooting and hollering about how Auckland is the perfect place to fall in love, I realized I was picturing Desiree as the Bachelorette. I mean, I realize Jenn was not memorable from last season, but Desiree was a really long time ago! Should I be worried about early onset dementia?! Yikes!

 

No.  I think you are just trying to imagine a more interesting season.

[Stats Queen]

6 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

So Sam over rode Jenn’s wishes and told her she had to jump.   Jerk.   There is supportive and assholish.  He is the latter.  

Yes, he is a controlling asshat. If my husband of 26 years did something like that to me…

5 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

Um, are we supposed to pretend that Jenn didn’t just go sky diving last week?!? (Or was that Desiree? 🤣) But I guess anything to make Jenn realize Sam is a jerk is a good thing. Is he tricking her that they’re going for a walk and will just push her off?!?

I want to go hang gliding, maybe sky diving but I wouldn’t want to do that off the building.

This is cruel. Sam is such a tool.

shes going to keep him isn’t she. If so, then I might be out for the rest of the season.

Sam was there for you after he put you in the situation.

Edited July 30 by Stats Queen

[dizzyd]

Someone explain to me how you don’t have to jump and can just do the skywalk translates to there’s only one way down and that’s to jump.

[JenE4]

 So Sam went from badgering her to laughing at her and only showed some empathy when she was crying…but she still did this and somehow thinks Sam is being a good boyfriend?! Oh, jeez. The red flags were there, girl. Maybe I’m getting Desiree flashes because I’m getting vibes this man is going to walk away from her when he gets close to the end.

[DEL901]

Where is Sam’s sob story?  Jenn is telling him all her buttons he can push but he isn’t giving her anything.  

[dizzyd]

Jenn is aware she has a bad taste in men but doesn’t seem like she’s changing her MO on this journey of hers. 

[Stats Queen]

5 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

 So Sam went from badgering her to laughing at her and only showed some empathy when she was crying…but she still did this and somehow thinks Sam is being a good boyfriend?! Oh, jeez. The red flags were there, girl. Maybe I’m getting Desiree flashes because I’m getting vibes this man is going to walk away from her when he gets close to the end.

I wish that had picked a bachelorette that wasn’t so easily manipulated but an abusive personality.

i just feel like he’s lying all the time. It’s like he’s trying to find the right words and emotions for the situation instead of having them.

[DEL901]

Just now, Stats Queen said:

I wish that had picked a bachelorette that wasn’t so easily manipulated but an abusive personality.

i just feel like he’s lying all the time. It’s like he’s trying to find the right words and emotions for the situation instead of having them.

He has zero authenticity when he speaks. It is like he is reciting lines…poorly.  And Jenn is eating it up.  Girl needs therapy, not reality tv.  

“He saw me and accepted me for who I am”….yeah, someone who can get him on tv.    But based on his edit, I can’t see him “winning”.

[JenE4]

1 minute ago, DEL901 said:

Where is Sam’s sob story?  Jenn is telling him all her buttons he can push but he isn’t giving her anything.  

Very good point. She’s “being vulnerable” to win him over. Ok, here he goes. “I pried, and I pried, and I pried. … I’m not good at using words.” Read between the lines. Which came first? The fiancé’s cheating or the emotional abuse? Okay, maybe I’m putting more weight to it, but coupled with how he was telling her she would jump off the building and how he’s been targeting Devin, this guy is definitely controlling and seems to always be simmering just under the surface. 

[dizzyd]

8 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

Girl needs therapy, not reality tv.  

Therapy is expensive and as Bachelorette she gets paid well and will forever be a part of the franchise elite club not to mention it gives her exposure to find mr right when her relationship with her f1 goes south. At least they performed a good ole rugby Haka, so props to the show for that.

Oh great we have another Sam v Devin showdown. Will there be a 2/1 date in their future?

Edited July 30 by dizzyd

[JenE4]

Okay, a super intimidating Haka dance is probably the way to go to psych out the opposing team. Much more effective than a cheerleading routine.

Edited July 30 by JenE4

[DEL901]

Last week Sam held up his fists and said (and I paraphrase) this is how he would take care of things outside of the house.  He is a walking red flag.  Devin is merely annoying.    He doesn’t seem to be someone who needs a restraining order to keep Jenn safe.  

[JenE4]

Ok, now we know why other Sam is a love virgin. He thinks being the best (in his opinion) at rugby means Jenn will instantly fall in love with him. Whelp, maybe the only experience he has is watching the popular girls in high school date the jocks. Okay, maybe there’s something to it since this lacrosse mini date is winning her over. But plot twist, it’s because she’s a sporty girl herself.

[Stats Queen]

Well, I thought Sam “the love virgin” - (I don’t remember his last initial) turns out to be kjnd of a tool.

[DEL901]

Lacrosse guy actually connected with Jenn.  Her laughter seemed genuine.  And she initiated the kiss.  Love Virgin should take notes.  

[DEL901]

Love Virgin’s leather motorcycle jacket comes across as a costume.   The rest are all in proper jackets.   And he is delusional if he thinks the others are intimidated   

That said, Thomas was condescending to Sam.  

[dizzyd]

He’s ready to lose his love virginity and he’s stomping on everyone else for it. Good on Jenn to burst his high bubble and send him packing.

[Stats Queen]

Just now, dizzyd said:

He’s ready to lose his love virginity and he’s stomping on everyone else for it. Good on Jenn to burst his high bubble and send him packing.

But he kept the other Sam. It should be a Sam less show by now.

Thomas is a jerk but he was having. Real conversation with Jenn tonight and Sam interrupted and Jen let him instead rope saying, give us a few more minutes.

Most of these men are so immature but I like a couple of them

[JenE4]

Oh, god. Devin isn’t here, so now Thomas has a new enemy in Sam N. He’s even quoting his buddy Sam M with “I’m going to keep the main thing, the main thing.” I think Sam M is going to be mad at Thomas because their hatred of Devin is the main thing. Well, even though it was Jen’s choice, I guess Thomas can report back that they succeeded in bullying someone out. But think Sam M is going to be miffed that he wasn’t involved in it.

Why is Marcus so sad about getting the rose?! I think I missed what they were talking about.

[dizzyd]

I actually enjoyed Devin’s date probably mainly because of respect shown to the Māori culture. 

[JenE4]

1 minute ago, dizzyd said:

I actually enjoyed Devin’s date probably mainly because of respect shown to the Māori culture. 

I feel like this is the first time the show respected a traditional culture instead of using it as fodder for some “love guru” date. I’m sure the new production had a part in that but it also had a lot to do with Devin. Okay, last week I said that Devin and Sam were equally terrible, but after seeing them separated on 1;1, it’s clear that Devin is a pretty decent dude and Sam is a monster.

[dizzyd]

Damn Devin is making me like him for admitting being a disrespectful kid who’s learned from his mistakes. Conversations where you get to know them than just a sob story and a make out session.

[DEL901]

4 minutes ago, dizzyd said:

Damn Devin is making me like him for admitting being a disrespectful kid who’s learned from his mistakes. Conversations where you get to know them than just a sob story and a make out session.

Devin and Jenn actually have a lot in common, both being originally disconnected from their family’s cultures and having split parents.  

He actually seems like a decent guy who uses his schtick to cover up his sensitive side.  

This conversation is so different than her conversation with Sam M.  Who would have thought based on first impressions that Devin has depth.  

Edited July 30 by DEL901

[dizzyd]

Didn’t catch the ex’s name. 

[JenE4]

This guy dated Jen for 3 months three years ago and decided once she was on television that he’s in love with her? Uhhhh. Sounds legit. This is the toxicity she’s used to, right?

[DEL901]

5 minutes ago, dizzyd said:

Didn’t catch the ex’s name. 

“Jenn’s ex boyfriend “.   You are welcome.  

[dizzyd]

“Matthew!” Sounds like a YouTuber I follow, lol.

[JenE4]

Wait. What? Is Jen the one who’s Here for the Wrong Reasons leaving a boyfriend behind?! And how many weddings do they have in Colombia at the same time?!

[Arkay]

So Sam N. I’m guessing is some paid actor.  This was a pretty revolting about-face, otherwise.

I cannot endure Jenn when she’s around Sam M. She sounds like  a whiny little girl. As if we didn’t all know she would do the jump after all. That’s not love coming from him, just manipulation.

I love Marcus the most, but did see how she and the now more sensitive Devin can actually help heal each other’s wounds.

So now Jenn is on TV and the ex thinks it would be swell to join the men. Sure, that will go over great. Jenn must submit to the producers and of course Jesse’s role is to be the facilitator of all this.

 

[Ivana Tinkle]

Both of the Sams were super gross this episode. 

Sam M. was so dismissive of Jenn during their date, from straight up laughing while she was freaking out to nonchalantly saying "It wasn't that high" when spoke about the jump later during dinner...ugh. He's such a douchebag.

11 hours ago, Arkay said:

So Sam N. I’m guessing is some paid actor.  This was a pretty revolting about-face, otherwise.

Agreed, I was thinking the exact same thing when he was saying "I'm gonna have my first kiss...with my wife." It was so fake and performative, glad she sent him home.

[tennisgurl]

Sam M certainly fell to pieces quickly, that date between them was painful to watch. He just kept laughing and going on about how much he loves this stuff, not at all taking her obvious fear seriously until she was literally crying. Huge red flags all over the place, and that was just the stupid date! I was cracking up at his stupid leather jacket, he looked like a kid playing dress up, I was so happy when Jenn sent him home. Now could the show PLEASE stop throwing poor Jenn off of things please? They just made her bungee jump in spite of her fear of heights, and now they make her jump off of a building? This is just mean.

Hopefully the other other Sam follows him soon, he seems so toxic, especially his obsession with finding "villains" for him to fight. It seems more like he wants to fight people than to be with Jenn. 

So Jenn's ex of a few months from three years ago just so happens to decide he wants her back as soon as she's on a nationally watched dating show? It does seem weird that they apparently were planning on attending multiple weddings together, but this whole thing is weird. I hope that Jenn sends him packing, its not fair to the other guys to have him around with his history with Jenn, and if she wants a fresh start after so many crappy guys, going back to an ex seems like the opposite of what she wants. 

Devin has seemed pretty fake in previous episodes, but I thought his date with Jenn was actually really nice. I saw some sincerity in his interest in learning about another culture and when he told her about how his mom raised him and admitted that he could be difficult as a kid, I think I might actually be liking him now. Of course, that also might be because the guys this season are pretty meh in general, they go from being obviously scummy to just kind of there. 

Edited July 30 by tennisgurl

[Jaundiced Eye]

Has anyone else noticed that sometimes Jen talks like a ventriloquist's dummy? She keeps her teeth clamped together and speaks behind them or something. It's very distracting, as well as hard to understand what she's saying. 

[leocadia]

I was so hoping Sam M. would have the smug wiped off his face, but Jenn put the blinders right back on.  You know if she had not jumped and they ended up together, he never would have let her forget how she kept him from doing it.  I've actually been in a similar situation (not on tv and not with a love interest) when I took my niece to an amusement park.  I was so excited because she was finally tall enough to go on the big rides.  Problem was, she was terrified and wouldn't even try.  I almost got her on the biggest, scariest one (my favorite) and she was willing to do it for me but when I saw tears in her eyes, I just couldn't go through with it.  Even knowing she probably would have gotten over the fear and enjoyed it, I realized I was making it all about what I wanted.  We stuck to the log rides and bumper cars and had a good day.  Despite what he says to Jenn, Sam M. is all about Sam M.

I can't quite like Devin either, although he's a little better than Sam M.  They did have a good talk, but in his TH's he kept saying "I need her to know this about me or that about me" but didn't say anything about wanting to know about her.  Just like with Sam, his relationship with her is all about the reflection back on him.

I knew Sam N was toast after the intro with the eyelash curler.  

[Meowwww]

SUCH BS.  I am terrified of heights.  Tried ziplining once, got off sobbing after the second line (there was no way down from the platform between line 1 and 2).  I can’t walk by the railing on the second of third or fourth floor in the Mall of America.   Jenn is NOT afraid of heights.  She wanted to be comforted and prioritized.  Once she felt validated, she was just fine with the heights.   
This clearly offends truly-terrified me.  So not realistic. 

Edited July 31 by Meowwww

[Aim123]

If I hear the word vulnerable pronounced vunnarbul one more time...

[LakeGal]

Sam M reminded me of a boyfriend I had.  The boyfriend tried to drag me on a ride that I knew would make me sick to my stomach.  He was trying to pull me onto the ride.  The guy operating the ride had to come between us. The operator refused to put me on the ride if I didn't want to go on it.  The boyfriend went on the ride with his buddy.  I went to the bar with his nephew who was just a couple years younger than him.  I ended up breaking up with the boyfriend shortly after and I dated the nephew for awhile.  We lived in separate cities so it didn't go anywhere.  But we both had a laugh about dating behind his uncle's back.    

[Hip-to-be-Square]

Sam M is so smug, and he didn't care about Jen's feelings during the jump challenge.  Sam turns everything into a make out and gives her 3-word answers to her questions.  I'm tired of his "the main thing is the main thing" phrase- I bet he's the type to say "it is what it is" during a fight 😏😖. 

[DEL901]

1 hour ago, Hip-to-be-Square said:

Sam M is so smug, and he didn't care about Jen's feelings during the jump challenge.  Sam turns everything into a make out and gives her 3-word answers to her questions.  I'm tired of his "the main thing is the main thing" phrase- I bet he's the type to say "it is what it is" during a fight 😏😖. 

1 hour ago, Hip-to-be-Square said: 😏😖

He is sooooo obnoxious.  The only good thing is that with this edit, there is no way he is going to win.  

[LakeGal]

Sam M is so disliked that he will never be the next Bachelor.  That is the best thing about it.  

[ljenkins782]

14 minutes ago, LakeGal said:

Sam M is so disliked that he will never be the next Bachelor.  That is the best thing about it.  

THAT is the "main thing." 

The difference in his demeanor when he's alone with Jenn vs hanging out in the house is so noticeable that it SHOULD (sadly, probably won't) affect his dating life after the show. The way he turns on this quiet side with Jenn and then is a loudmouth bully in the house, it's like a peek behind the curtain to see how someone behaves when you're not around. 

I'm sure he's in this for the TV time and later Instagram fame, so I hope he has an embarrassing exit, if he has an exit at all. I feel like he has to be heading for a fall from the editing, but I will be so disappointed if she fails to see through him and he wins. Could be another one of those messy seasons where the relationship implodes before the show even hits the airwaves.

[Jaundiced Eye]

21 hours ago, Meowwww said:

SUCH BS.  I am terrified of heights.  Tried ziplining once, got off sobbing after the second line (there was no way down from the platform between line 1 and 2).  I can’t walk by the railing on the second of third or fourth floor in the Mall of America.   Jenn is NOT afraid of heights.  She wanted to be comforted and prioritized.  Once she felt validated, she was just fine with the heights.   
This clearly offends truly-terrified me.  So not realistic. 

I agree. My fear of heights is so intense that I can't get within a few feet of a window in a tall building. My hands sweat just watching this stuff on TV. There is no way I could skydive, bungee jump or step off a building. It's physically impossible. 

[Starlight925]

So how did this guy from her past get a hold of producers?

I mean, who does one call?  Do you just Google "ABC"?

And happen to get there right before a rose ceremony, happen to have packed enough suits, swimsuits, clothes, etc., to just "happen" to get there in time?

Puh-lease.

 

[Arkay]

22 hours ago, Meowwww said:

SUCH BS.  I am terrified of heights.  Tried ziplining once, got off sobbing after the second line (there was no way down from the platform between line 1 and 2).  I can’t walk by the railing on the second of third or fourth floor in the Mall of America.   Jenn is NOT afraid of heights.  She wanted to be comforted and prioritized.  Once she felt validated, she was just fine with the heights.   
This clearly offends truly-terrified me.  So not realistic. 

I’ve always thought I had a fear of heights, but I’ve come to realize it’s actually a fear of falling. I also cannot be near a railing, but I’m not afraid to be on a high floor. Here in NYC I live on the 11th floor and I’m fine with it, and fine on an airplane.

i did once go parasailing in the Caribbean, and I screamed all the way as I was lifted up and then all through the time I was up there.

For me it’s not being up high, I realize it’s being near the edge of something.

 

i would never jump off that building, but I mean that very seriously. I agree with you—-if she were GENUINELY terrified, nothing would have made her go through with it. To me she seemed more pouty about him not listening to her  than her being truly afraid. 

[Madding crowd]

I believe Jenn was really afraid but also on TV and feeling pressured. The thing is everyone says if you make yourself do it you will enjoy it and that isn’t always true. I hate rollercoasters and heights and the times I forced myself to do it I hated it. I never understand why people think something is wrong with you if you don’t want to do certain physical activities.

Both Sam’s are awful but I am warming up to Devin. Why was Marcus looking so sad? I missed them having a rosé ceremony.

[ljenkins782]

On 7/31/2024 at 6:57 PM, Starlight925 said:

So how did this guy from her past get a hold of producers?

I mean, who does one call?  Do you just Google "ABC"?

And happen to get there right before a rose ceremony, happen to have packed enough suits, swimsuits, clothes, etc., to just "happen" to get there in time?

Puh-lease.

 

To be honest, I haven't even finished this episode yet, I had to turn it off halfway through to go somewhere and just haven't been motivated enough to slog through the rest.

But if the best they could do in the way of manufactured drama is to dig up some rando that she dated for a few months several years ago, it does make me wonder about Jenn's past relationships. 

What, was Blake what's-his-name not free to take a shot at Bachelorette #4? 

Quote

I believe Jenn was really afraid but also on TV and feeling pressured. The thing is everyone says if you make yourself do it you will enjoy it and that isn’t always true. I hate rollercoasters and heights and the times I forced myself to do it I hated it. I never understand why people think something is wrong with you if you don’t want to do certain physical activities.

I believe she was afraid, as most rational people would be, but I didn't see that fear from the outside. I am terrified of heights and I would have been shaking and unable to move my hands and feet in that situation and though fear manifests differentially in everyone, Jenn's crying-without-tears and pouting didn't strike me as someone who was truly scared and more like someone who was annoyed that the guy with her wasn't acting like she wanted him to. 

Either way, this show's insistence on creating false bonds by having contestants do something they don't want to do together is really tiresome. Sometimes it goes very well, like Dotun and Charity doing some kind of heights thing and sometimes it goes like this, where it looks like a guy bullying a woman into something she doesn't want to do and her acting like he did her a favor afterward.