Artistic Gymnastics

[Daisy]

2 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

If they don't already, they should have 360° cameras like taekwondo, so any inquiries can be examined at any and all angles, frame by frame.

What a fucking mess, one that didn't need to happen in the first place. Poor Jordan and poor Ana.

pretty much.. the entire system needs to be overhauled because i don't understand how you miss this much when you have access to the footage right in front of you. 

[NUguy514]

1 hour ago, roamyn said:

I'm sorry, but I'm on Romania's side here.  I thought it was utter BS they did that to Ana in the first place. 

If inquiries are allowed, them why can't Romania put an inquiry into an inquiry.  4 seconds is 4 seconds.  That's more than the difference between Gold and off te podium in a bunch of Track & Field events.

I do think the IOC can bend the rules and allow both to keep their medals, but it still strips Ana of that moment to shine.

It's utter BS that they did this to Jordan in two different ways, though.  The judges should've assigned her the correct start value from the jump, in which case she's ahead of Ana anyway and no one's talking about this.  Barring that, they should not have accepted the inquiry because it was four seconds late, in which case Ana gets her moment, but they did because no one was watching the clock, and here we are.

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

But from the rules -you have X minutes. At the end of the day that elapsed. and yes it was 4 seconds past. but it was 4 seconds. and considering that medals are are being decided by 1.100th of a point, and 1.100th of a second - to say that 4 seconds in an inquiry to determine a medal is petty doesn't make sense to me. [MY question is - how did people know it was elapsed. like there is a lot being not said here, and it leads to more questions.]

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that comparison at all.  Submitting an inquiry is not an Olympic sport, and comparing it to one is inapt.  Clearly, no one in charge started a stopwatch as soon as Jordan's score was posted to make sure the inquiry was submitted in 60 seconds instead of 64 seconds (or 60.001 seconds, for that matter), and we don't really know where those four seconds came from.  Maybe Cécile got there in 57 seconds, but the judge in charge of accepting the inquiry talked at her for seven seconds before accepting the inquiry.  Maybe she got there in 59 seconds, and the computer or whatever acted up for five seconds before the inquiry was registered.  Maybe she got there in 64 seconds, but then it shouldn't have been accepted.  Nothing about this feels precise in the way swimming times or sprinting times are precise.

What a horror show this has become.

Edited August 11 by NUguy514

[Daisy]

10 minutes ago, NUguy514 said:

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that comparison at all.  Submitting an inquiry is not an Olympic sport, and comparing it to one is inapt.  Clearly, no one in charge started a stopwatch as soon as Jordan's score was posted to make sure the inquiry was submitted in 60 seconds instead of 64 seconds (or 60.001 seconds, for that matter), and we don't really know where those four seconds came from.  Maybe Cécile got there in 57 seconds, but the judge in charge of accepting the inquiry talked at her for seven seconds before accepting the inquiry.  Maybe she got there in 59 seconds, and the computer or whatever acted up for five seconds before the inquiry was registered.  Maybe she got there in 64 seconds, but then it shouldn't have been accepted.  Nothing about this feels precise in the way swimming times or sprinting times are precise.

What a horror show this has become.

no that's fair - you are entitled to your opinion. it might not be the best of analogies I'll own that but that's how my brain is processing this. people are saying 4 seconds shouldn't matter. but to me it does. (but it's not an analogy i'll waterloo on so it's fair but the overall sentiment i'll stand by). The time mattered.  if it is a minute. and it was late. it was late. that's on the judge. and i'm with agreement with you that the judges should have had this figured out before they submitted the score in. they didn't. and the judgement was reversed. My thing is why was it. 

 

13 minutes ago, NUguy514 said:

It's utter BS that they did this to Jordan in two different ways, though.  The judges should've assigned her the correct start value from the jump, in which case she's ahead of Ana anyway and no one's talking about this.  Barring that, they should not have accepted the inquiry because it was four seconds late, in which case Ana gets her moment, but they did because no one was watching the clock, and here we are.

i agree with you on that too. no where am I saying that Jordan isn't the wrong party here too. she is. her start value should have been correct. no drama. or. they were wrong, and they ran out of time. bad mistake. but crap like that happens. [sadly - been there done that a LOT]. two people got robbed of their moment because 2 judges who are paid a heck of a lot of money screwed up as did the head whomever who takes it in and went Oh yeah okay let me do this real quick. that's where my ire is at. the people who utterly screwed up. and my sympathies are for Jordan and Ana who are both suffering from that now because wherever you look at it there is a big gaps were there really should have been a Gandlf sign screaming "YOU SHALL NOT PASS." on it. 
 

like you said. it's just a big freaking colossal mess and it sucks. FIG needs to 1000 percent better so this never happens again.

[surfgirl]

Talk to me like I'm an idiot...So Jordan's coach submitted a combination eight after her score csne up bc she was missing credit for a move, correct? And then Romania submitted a complaint that the USA's complaint was su mitted 4 dwconds late, is that correct? HOW did Romania even know the USA complaint was 4 seconds late? Where is the transparency?

[Conotocarious]

2 minutes ago, surfgirl said:

Talk to me like I'm an idiot...So Jordan's coach submitted a combination eight after her score csne up bc she was missing credit for a move, correct? And then Romania submitted a complaint that the USA's complaint was su mitted 4 dwconds late, is that correct? HOW did Romania even know the USA complaint was 4 seconds late? Where is the transparency?

They literally threw everything at a wall in the hopes that Jordan lost third place and then turned around all wide-eyed “who us? We want everyone to get a medal!”

[Daisy]

14 minutes ago, surfgirl said:

Talk to me like I'm an idiot...So Jordan's coach submitted a combination eight after her score csne up bc she was missing credit for a move, correct? And then Romania submitted a complaint that the USA's complaint was su mitted 4 dwconds late, is that correct? HOW did Romania even know the USA complaint was 4 seconds late? Where is the transparency?

Not an idiot sweetie. like you're 4! lol

So. Jordan/Coaches submitted her start value, her routine.[ where i am unclear is if the spin she included (that is worth 0.10) -was in her routine - or if she added it. let's say for argument's say it there]. Jordan performs. her score does not have the 0.10. - her coach files an inquiry. the Inquiry wins, Jordan moves from 5th to 3rd.  rah rah, cute photo, competition is done. 

You'd think.

a lot of people are angry that Jordan's coach filed the inquiry. (which was her right) and became keyboard warriors, taking it out on Jordan. not cool. There was a lot of screeching going on about Sabrina (NBC showed that Sabrina's foot did not go out of bounds but she got deducted for that. get over it crap like that happens). people are like we're boycotting the closing ceremonies drama drama drama. because two of their athletes got screwed over in their mind. Sabrina (for the no foot foul) and Ana (for being screwed over by the inquiry). 

I have NO idea. (because that has not been released) - how Romania knew the inquiry was late. so i'm going to assume they simply were petitioning the inquiry itself and then it came out in the CAS's investigation that it as late. (which is why CAS decided to toss out the inquiry).  Romania said they would be fine w/double medals, but FIG/IOC said no.  People are now mad because Jordan gets screwed over. 

So the big question which i feel  is getting lost- is why if it was late, was it accepted in the first place. why wasn't the two judges and the head judge paying attention and how did you let this happen. because two mistakes leads up to this entire thing. You should have had the right start value. (you didn't). you accepted the petition. (you shouldn't). so basically had the value been correct. Jordan wins and Romania has no case. move on. or. You accept that the mistake happened. and you lost your chance to appeal and Ana wins. you move on. but what they are doing is saying. not ONLY did we screw up twice - instead of just giving BOTH girls medals. we're going to go back to our original mistake in the first place. which is just stupid. 

Edited August 11 by Daisy

[Garden Wafers]

If I'm being very petty, I'd not only want to see clear evidence that the inquiry was submitted four seconds too late, but also evidence that every other inquiry accepted at this meet was submitted within the allotted time frame. Also, if someone submitted an inquiry that was rejected, but it turns out that the inquiry should never have been accepted in the first place - do they get their filing fee back or does FIG keep it?

[scarynikki12]

I’m skeptical about Romania’s claim they just wanted Ana to share the bronze. They were vocally planning to boycott the closing ceremony over this. That’s not the action of a delegation that just wants an outcome that’s fair to everyone. They also know about the IOC and FIG position on ties, as we’ve seen those stupid tiebreakers play out in other Games, so I have a hard time believing they didn’t know Jordan would lose her medal if their appeal was successful. I suspect the two bronze claim is more about generating positive PR which they need after the harassment and racism Jordan’s experienced all over social media. 

[Daisy]

13 minutes ago, Garden Wafers said:

If I'm being very petty, I'd not only want to see clear evidence that the inquiry was submitted four seconds too late, but also evidence that every other inquiry accepted at this meet was submitted within the allotted time frame. Also, if someone submitted an inquiry that was rejected, but it turns out that the inquiry should never have been accepted in the first place - do they get their filing fee back or does FIG keep it?

this is where i own my naivety - i would hope that CAS did that in their investigation. because again. WHOLE big ole can of worms. (and that's a nother important question - my bet is nope in regards to money).

 

[NUguy514]

33 minutes ago, Daisy said:

So. Jordan/Coaches submitted her start value, her routine.[ where i am unclear is if the spin she included (that is worth 0.10) -was in her routine - or if she added it. let's say for argument's say it there]. Jordan performs. her score does not have the 0.10. - her coach files an inquiry. the Inquiry wins, Jordan moves from 5th to 3rd.  rah rah, cute photo, competition is done. 

The move in question is called a Gogean, and it's a 1.5 split leap.  Jordan did have it in her routine.  She usually just does a 1.0 split leap, but she did, let's say, a 1.375 split leap in her floor routine.  It has to be greater than a 1.25 split leap to count and get the 0.1 bump in start value, and hers pretty clearly was (to my eyes anyway).  She usually does the 1.0 split leap because she isn't usually able to get to that 1.25 threshold, so I wonder if the judges just didn't really pay attention.

[CeeBeeGee]

37 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

I suspect the two bronze claim is more about generating positive PR which they need after the harassment and racism Jordan’s experienced all over social media. 

THIS. So much this.

Something occurred to me today--these are the same *ssh*les who set the vault two inches too short in Sydney. And when their error was pointed out to them after 2.5 rotations where everyone nearly broke their necks, they yawned and asked if people wanted to vault again. When they should've been bowing and scraping to said people. And they absolutely should've scrapped everything and started the AA final all over again the next day. I can't stand Khorkina but she absolutely would've been on that podium had it been a normal meet. To say nothing of that stupid, stupid ruling on Andreea Raducan.

FIG and the IOC don't care about the gymnasts and they never have. They care about their cushy sinecures. Funny how the IOC can strip a medal five days later but it took them how long to finally award the team gold in figure skating to the US? Years. That's how long.

Don't give them your bronze, Jordan.

[Makai]

It will never cease to amaze me how often the IOC ignores their own mission statement by opposing the unifying solutions. The judges fucked up. Jordan should have had the bronze if her routine had been scored correctly and Ana should have had the bronze if the inquiry rules had been followed so just let them both have the damn medal. It could have been a feel good moment. 

Either way I am truly happy for Ana. Apparently she has been facing bullying from within her on federation over having a Dutch coach. She has been a class act through out this whole thing.

I haven’t seen in mentioned here but it is being reported that Sabrina’s inquiry was denied because it was for the D score and not the OOB. 

Edited August 11 by Makai

[Daisy]

26 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

FIG and the IOC don't care about the gymnasts and they never have. They care about their cushy sinecures. Funny how the IOC can strip a medal five days later but it took them how long to finally award the team gold in figure skating to the US? Years. That's how long.

it took Beckie Scott years to get her gold medal too. (She was a really harsh speaker about the rampant drugging in cross country skiing, and everyone basically told her to shut up and get over it. Both Russians who beat her got caught doping so she went from Bronze to Silver  but had to wait longer for the gold medal.

 

29 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Something occurred to me today--these are the same *ssh*les who set the vault two inches too short in Sydney. And when their error was pointed out to them after 2.5 rotations where everyone nearly broke their necks, they yawned and asked if people wanted to vault again.

i was rewatching that. and it just. blows my mind. all of the apparatuses sucked. Floor was horrible, the bars were too dry, the vault we all know about, and the beam didn't have sufficient padding too. just horrible all around. 

54 minutes ago, NUguy514 said:

The move in question is called a Gogean, and it's a 1.5 split leap.  Jordan did have it in her routine.  She usually just does a 1.0 split leap, but she did, let's say, a 1.375 split leap in her floor routine.  It has to be greater than a 1.25 split leap to count and get the 0.1 bump in start value, and hers pretty clearly was (to my eyes anyway).  She usually does the 1.0 split leap because she isn't usually able to get to that 1.25 threshold, so I wonder if the judges just didn't really pay attention.

thank you! :)

the answer here i feel is a big fat nope. 

[surfgirl]

@Daisy This 4 year old thank you for that most excellent explanation this giant shit sundae. My husband just said that Jordan should tell TIIC, 'Oh sorry, but you already awarded me the bronze medal.' I am in the 'don't give it back' camp. #fuckthatshit The entire kerfuffle seems moot to me because the judges fucked up by mis-scoring Jordan. With the judges mistake rectified Jordan wins bronze. All I can say is this: Fuck Team Romania, all of them. Technically they lost, they're just playing with rules to fudge their win. 

[roamyn]

56 minutes ago, Makai said:

It will never cease to amaze me how often the IOC ignores their own mission statement by opposing the unifying solutions. The judges fucked up. Jordan should have had the bronze is her routine had been scored correctly and the Ana should have had the bronze is the inquiry rules had been followed so just let them both have the damn medal. It could have been a feel good moment. 

Exactly.  It's utter BS that Jordan, Ana, the Romanians, or the US coaches are taking flak.  They all did what they were told what the rules were.  They complied correctly. 

It's the FIG, the IOC and the judges in the first place who've screwed up.  The world needs feel good and happy ending stories right now.  Why not make everyone satisfied, gain respectability & honor, by doing the right thing and honoring both?

But the vitriol all the former needs to stop.. And that should include here. 

6 minutes ago, surfgirl said:

Fuck Team Romania, all of them. Technically they lost, they're just playing with rules to fudge their win. 

So they're not allowed an inquiry because some don't like it?  They are just as entitled to stick up for their athlete as any other country.   That's a pretty nasty comment for them following the rules.

Edited August 11 by roamyn

[surfgirl]

Well @roamyn, since you quoted me, may I say that we are all entitled to our opinions. If you do not like mine I'm fine with that. I allow you your opinion even if I do not agree with you. Thisnis a very difficult situation and not everyone is going to think or feel as you do.

Secondly, the Romanians are, IMO, not 'following the rules' rather they are trying to game a bronze medal by crying foul over 4 seconds, which should be.moot IMO because the judges did not score Jordan correctly. If this was a case of let's say the Romanians felt Jordan stepped out of bounds and wasn't penalized for it and had she been then Ana would have won. That is, IMO, an absolutely appropriate cause to lodge a complaint. But Not in this case. In this case one gymnast was not correctly scored and there should be no time limit, let alone 4 seconds, on something that caused a legitimate winner to not win. So yes, #fuckthatshit. 

Edited August 11 by surfgirl

[LuvsPigs]

What a mess! I feel bad for both girls. It's a true shame this is happening. But the truth is the rules are the rules. Both federations had a right to do what they did. Maybe Romania's seems like gaming the system but they had the right fully. Heck, even Jordan's own coaches said it was a hail mary so that in way was also gaming the system in a let see if this works in our favor way. It's funny b/c in Track it's all about which chest crosses first that is why they don't end up with ties. In the high jump earlier today the 2 guys had a choice to tie or do a jump off and they did a jump off. I don't think its petty b/c lets be real for all my fellow US folks the closest comparison I can think of is the NFL and challenges. If able, coaches would challenge every call they disagreed with no matter how small and us fans all know it. The games would never end. Lol.

[LexieLily]

If you were the Romanian gymnast (Ana) would you even want the medal at this point given that you (a) didn't legitimately and properly earn it, (b) the only reason you're getting it is because the official federation is demanding the current bronze medalist give back her medal and (c) how much of a PR nightmare/shitshow this is in the media and Twitter at the moment?

She's never going to get the medal ceremony moment (unless they redo THAT, too) so years from now the only memory she will have is....all of this. And that's sad.

Edited August 11 by LexieLily

[surfgirl]

19 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

If you were the Romanian gymnast (Ana) would you even want the medal at this point given that you (a) didn't legitimately and properly earn it, (b) the only reason you're getting it is because the official federation is demanding the current bronze medalist give back her medal and (c) how much of a PR nightmare/shitshow this is in the media and Twitter at the moment? She's never going to get the medal ceremony moment (unless they redo THAT, too) so years from now the only memory she will have is....all of this.

You bring up a great point, ifnit was me I would decline it fir all the reasons you mention above. Nit easy to do in reality but it's tainted all around now.

[roamyn]

1 hour ago, surfgirl said:

Well @roamyn, since you quoted me, may I say that we are all entitled to our opinions. If you do not like mine I'm fine with that. I allow you your opinion even if I do not agree with you. Thisnis a very difficult situation and not everyone is going to think or feel as you do.

You’re right, everyone can have an opinion, but you don’t have to be nasty abt it and use profanity against someone - again - following the rules. and it’s not just you.   
 

And then people complain abt SM and threats.  This is how they get started.

[kathyk2]

4 hours ago, LexieLily said:

If you were the Romanian gymnast (Ana) would you even want the medal at this point given that you (a) didn't legitimately and properly earn it, (b) the only reason you're getting it is because the official federation is demanding the current bronze medalist give back her medal and (c) how much of a PR nightmare/shitshow this is in the media and Twitter at the moment?

She's never going to get the medal ceremony moment (unless they redo THAT, too) so years from now the only memory she will have is....all of this. And that's sad.

According to Yahoo Jordan will have to give back her medal. This is nuts she did nothing wrong she didn't use drugs or a fake birth certificate as other gymnasts have done in the past. 

[CM-BlueButterfly]

Hi everyone,

I’ve noticed that a couple of posts are becoming personal… Yes, we each have our opinion and differing opinions are important to a healthy community. They introduce us to different perspectives and point of views.

However, it’s equally important to recognize that perspectives aren’t right or wrong; they’re different and just as valid. So, when you disagree, please remember to be mindful of the other person’s perspective, especially when said disagreement is about a subject where passions are high. It heightens the impact of everything that is said. Therefore, it can be helpful to take a figurative breath before you hit the “submit” button; take a moment to re-read your post and assure that criticism is constructive, the post recognizes and respects the other person’s opinion and it doesn’t attack anyone or anyone’s opinion personally.

Thank you.

(On a side note, please note that even though the above probably sounds infuriatingly dispassionate, I haven’t been dispassionate about the subject either. I understand where you all are coming from.
However, as a community manager, I have to look at it from the entire community’s point of view. As we’re an online community and communication is in writing, it’s easy for a post to sound like we’re dismissing someone else’s opinion. Therefore, it’s important to be aware of how our words impact the individuals we communicate with as well as those around us, even when it’s the last thing we feel like doing).

[Conotocarious]

I’m so happy that Romania has become such a stickler for rules! When they lied about Daniela Silivas’ age so she could compete underage they seemed not to care about quibbling over one or two years. How lovely that now that they got away with that with no consequences they are now the self-appointed leaders in following the rules right down to the second. 

[blueray]

13 hours ago, roamyn said:

I'm sorry, but I'm on Romania's side here.  I thought it was utter BS they did that to Ana in the first place. 

If inquiries are allowed, them why can't Romania put an inquiry into an inquiry.  4 seconds is 4 seconds.  That's more than the difference between Gold and off te podium in a bunch of Track & Field events.

I do think the IOC can bend the rules and allow both to keep their medals, but it still strips Ana of that moment to shine.

Honestly didn't see this specific event. But from what I heard. Why can't they both been given Bronze? It seems to be the fairest thing to do. And I'm sure they have extra medals, so manufacturing isn't an issue.

This will allow Jordan to keep her medal which she deserves. And Ana to get one as it sucks what happened. But this will allow less drama and backlash that will happen if they force Jordan to give her's back.

Edited August 11 by blueray

[LexieLily]

From everything I've read, and remember from actually watching, the two Romanian gymnastics in question (Ana and Sabrina) tied in their score. So how come they both don't get bronze, according to the new ruling?

[Daisy]

1 minute ago, LexieLily said:

From everything I've read, and remember from actually watching, the two Romanian gymnastics in question (Ana and Sabrina) tied in their score. So how come they both don't get bronze, according to the new ruling?

because the IOC hates Ties. so even though they are tied - Ana beat Sabrina by start value i think. 

[Chaser]

Tie breaker rules. If two athletes tie, the gymnast with the higher execution score wins. 

[LuvsPigs]

For the comments about would Ana even want it. My guess is yes. She probably truly does feel it was taken from her. Also winning brings more than just a medal as most countries give money to the winners and other stuff. So it's about a lot more then a medal. It's just hard all around and emotions are so high. I feel for them all. The social media hate is uncalled for too and neither girl should be getting it. Plus in a couple of weeks once the media coverage dies down and people are into school and fall stuff and football is back, the general public will no longer care so it's a real shame their is such a huge level if hate directed to them.

[kathyk2]

4 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

According to Yahoo Jordan will have to give back her medal. This is nuts she did nothing wrong she didn't use drugs or a fake birth certificate as other gymnasts have done in the past. 

The USOC is appealing the decision so Jordan should get to keep her medal for now. 

[Makai]

10 hours ago, LuvsPigs said:

I don't think its petty b/c lets be real for all my fellow US folks the closest comparison I can think of is the NFL and challenges. If able, coaches would challenge every call they disagreed with no matter how small and us fans all know it. The games would never end. Lol.

I think there is some general confusion over what process actually got the scores changed. The initial inquiries that happened during the competition were like challenges in the NFL. What happened in the last week would be like if a NFL team challenged and won a no catch call, in the end zone, 4 seconds into the two minute warning. So the other team sued 24 hours later and an independent board arbitrated the decision and the score was changed retroactively. 

Ooh, maybe Gymnastics needs to give coaches inquiry flags. I’m joking, but, whatever the outcome with the bronze, there needs to be overhaul of the inquiry system in gymnastics. Giving the last athlete one minute when every other competitor got roughly 4 minutes is unfair. Listing the rankings before the inquiry period is completed is stupid. Forcing coaches to guess on what inquiry to file because the score breakdown is kept secret is ridiculous. And that’s on top of the fact that none of this would be happening if the judges and officials were doing their actual job. 

Personally, I want to see the full ruling from the CAS before I have an opinion on if it was the right call. I have questions about how the time was determined, assuming the system isn’t automated and human processing speed is going to create delays. 

Whether it was or wasn’t the correct ruling, taking an already awarded medal from an athlete due to incompetence by the officials shouldn’t happen. 

2 hours ago, blueray said:

But from what I heard. Why can't they both been given Bronze? It seems to be the fairest thing to do. And I'm sure they have extra medals, so manufacturing isn't an issue.

I haven’t seen anything official but I am assuming it isn’t happening because they are so tie-adverse that Ana is only in third by a tiebreaker with Sabrina. So if Ana and Jordan both get bronze it will technically by the 3rd and 5th place finisher. I say give it to all three but the IOC sucks. 

Edited August 11 by Makai

[galaxygirl76]

My medal would have gone 'missing' flying back to the US. 

[shoregirl]

Anyway they are appealing so this isn't getting solved anytime soon..what a mess

 

[kittykat]

I would argue for the "they don't like ties" except they awarded two bronze medals THAT VERY SAME DAY IN THE HIGH BAR FINAL!

[Daisy]

Honestly - as i stated before - good for the USOPC for advocating for their athlete, and they stated it right off the hop. the judges screwed up. twice. and Jordan shouldn't have to suffer for that. As much as my heart hearts for both Ana/Jordan here - if this ends up revamping the judging system to be better (ie: ensuring that the start values are actually what they are, having 360 degree angles like in other sports, and a more fair/correct inquiry policy AND full transparency. then the stress right now is worth it so no one else has to go through what they do. I will also say unless it is something illegal (ie: drug tests or something that severe) - once the Final Results are posted - that's it. shut up.  accept what happened and be gracious. no petitions, no nothing. 

Honestly this makes me feel i stepped into the TARDIS and I am in 2002 Salt Lake City, and the Pairs Skating controversy is happening all over again. At least that time it was clear Hollywood drama involving the Mob and all of that so it was really like OMG SOAPY!! as well. this is just stupid people making stupid mistakes and it just keeps compounding. And all FIG and IOC needed to do in this one instance was go. "You know what. we screwed up. we're sorry and in this one case both girls get medals and we'll shore up our practices." but no. they are digging their heels in and it's just back and forth nonsense. 

6 minutes ago, kittykat said:

I would argue for the "they don't like ties" except they awarded two bronze medals THAT VERY SAME DAY IN THE HIGH BAR FINAL!

i think they had a jump off, and usually if they have the same amount of attempts over misses, the athletes can decide to share a medal. I think? that's what happened here. [another argument for non judged sports sadly]. 

[Makai]

23 minutes ago, kittykat said:

I would argue for the "they don't like ties" except they awarded two bronze medals THAT VERY SAME DAY IN THE HIGH BAR FINAL!

That’s because they had the exact same score even after the tiebreakers. The Gold medal in high bar was also a tie but a tie breaker decided who got gold and silver. Ties are sometimes unavoidable but they try to avoid them. 

Edited August 11 by Makai

[NUguy514]

25 minutes ago, Makai said:

That’s because they had the exact same score even after the tiebreakers. The Gold medal in high bar was also a tie but a tie breaker decided who got gold and silver. Ties are sometimes unavoidable but they try to avoid them. 

That's right, Zhang and Tang both had the same difficulty and execution scores, so they tied for bronze (I don't think there were any other tiebreakers applied, but I'm not 100% sure about that); whereas, Oka and Barajas had the same total score, but Oka won gold since his execution score was higher.

[satrunrose]

1 hour ago, Makai said:

Listing the rankings before the inquiry period is completed is stupid. Ho

Honestly, I don't think this would have blown up as much as it has if they had just held off on listing the rankings until they looked into the inquiry. Being told you have the bronze, starting to celebrate and then have the judges go oops! is an extra level of humiliation. I wonder if Romania would have made such a loud fuss if most of it had happened behind the scenes. 

[yowsah1]

11 minutes ago, satrunrose said:

Honestly, I don't think this would have blown up as much as it has if they had just held off on listing the rankings until they looked into the inquiry. Being told you have the bronze, starting to celebrate and then have the judges go oops! is an extra level of humiliation. I wonder if Romania would have made such a loud fuss if most of it had happened behind the scenes. 

I never saw the scoreboard in the coverage I saw, but shouldn't there have been some sort of flag on it saying a score was under review?

I guess I am wondering why the celebrations started when a score was still under review.

Edited August 11 by yowsah1

[surfgirl]

40 minutes ago, yowsah1 said:

I never saw the scoreboard in the coverage I saw, but shouldn't there have been some sort of flag on it saying a score was under review?

I guess I am wondering why the celebrations started when a score was still under review.

I watched via NBC and I don't remember er them showing the scoreboard for anything TBH, whixh is weird bc in past Games I remember seeing it. You only ever saw the athletes looking at the board and their reaction, at least that's what I saw. In past Games I feel like we saw the scores come up on the boards too.

For those saying both ladies should get bronze, I dont really get that at all because Jordan's score was misjudged and once it was corrected she was in third place, right? I think this is more a case of thr Romanian Federation's bruised egos and saving face precisely because of what both @satrunrose and @yowsah1 said, they started celebrating before it was sorted and now they feel embarrassed so they're crying foul over a 4 second rule that ought to not exist anyway. Either way, Jordan won third place once her score was corrected so what, now they're just pretending her misjudged score is now correct with their judges mistake? I mean, I feel for Ana,that's a terrible position to be put in, but her Federation is wrong IMO and they need to accept that a mistake was made against another athlete and once corrected that athlete was in third place, end of story. Anything else is total BS and gaming the system. Romania should be protesting the judges, not the final score.

Edited August 11 by surfgirl

[CeeBeeGee]

4 hours ago, galaxygirl76 said:

My medal would have gone 'missing' flying back to the US. 

Yep. Just say you lost it. What are they gonna do, ransack your home?

I wonder how much of this comes from an insanely overdeveloped sense of Romanian entitlement. Last week, after the team final, I remember reading this weird comment from a Romanian, saying the three teams that medaled "were nothing in our heyday" and "we should be able to defeat them easily in a few years." Like, settle down Kohei, you came in 7th place in the team final. Team USA has been doing very well for at least a generation now. Brazil has also been coming on strong, ditto Team GB. They seem unable to let go of the glory days of the '70s-'90s.

And of course the lingering resentment of how Raducan was treated in Sydney--which of course they're right to resent, she was treated terribly but I maintain that every one of those AA finalists (at least the ones who vaulted in the first 2.5 rotations) were treated just as badly and they should've just scrapped the whole thing and started over the next day when the gymnasts' nerves had had a chance to recover. Raducan actually benefited from the vault debacle because she was one of the few to vault cleanly due to her size. 

[surfgirl]

Just add some levity to this thread, given current situations, please enjoy this floor routine:

https://www.instagram.com/p/C-V6Yniy56q/

[scarynikki12]

Apparently it’s against FIG policy to appeal an athlete’s score from another country so Jordan should keep her medal if they’re going to be sticklers for the rules. Now, Romania didn’t do this directly but the end result was the same and it’s going to set a horrible precedent if countries are allowed to get opponents scores changed even if in a roundabout way. Reading further it seems Romania just threw out every appeal they could think of and got lucky on the four second thing. Which highlights the question of who has the timer, when does it start, why it’s not prominently displayed somewhere, etc? And there’s no indication Romania or any other country was pointing out the four second thing when the athletes were still waiting to get final results (I’d understand if they were being actively ignored but no one has claimed this) so why is it ok for them to be granted extra time to try and find something to get their way? If they’re going to be sticklers about four seconds (which is probably a margin of error unless we get confirmation of someone holding a stopwatch) then why not tell Romania they have to submit their appeals during the same timeframe?

I'm sure going forward they’ll make a big deal about changes to the inquiry and appeals process but allowing a county to change the scores of an opponent, even if indirectly, is going to cause way more damage in future competitions.

In 1968 Tommie Smith and John Carlos were stripped of their gold and bronze medals after they did the Black Power Salute on the podium. Fun fact: no one physically forced them to return the medals so I think Jordan should just follow suit. 

[Makai]

New statement by USA Gymnastics saying they have proof that the inquiry was submitted 47 seconds after Jordan’s score was posted. 

Once again this makes me want to know how Romania determined when Jordan’s inquiry was submitted and what evidence the CAS used in their ruling. If there was no official time it was wrong to reach any ruling without a more involved hearing.

3 hours ago, yowsah1 said:

I never saw the scoreboard in the coverage I saw, but shouldn't there have been some sort of flag on it saying a score was under review?

Yes but when the score was posted there was no inquiry. By the time the inquiry was submitted everyone was already celebrating and the arena announcer was already announcing the medalists. 

Edited August 11 by Makai

[cmahorror]

First off - ties happen - you screwed up, not the gymnasts, give them both the Bronze.

Secondly, part of the reason Jordan has been given so much hate is because of this: Olympic Gymnast Lashes Out, Quits Gymnastics After Jordan Chiles' Controversial Score Strips Her of Medal Contention

Quote

Maneca-Voinea has now quit gymnastics, her mother and coach Camelia Voinea wrote on Facebook, according to Fox Sports.

Maneca-Voinea received a 0.1 point deduction after judges claimed her heel touched the floor beyond the competition boundaries, according to the Sporting News.

Since then, video evidence has emerged that her heel may not have actually touched.

"The girl in third place ... her landings were a bit lower ... I think she may have stepped out of bounds ... I had a routine that was much better than hers ... what happened was a very weird thing,” Maneca-Voinea said in an interview, speaking Romanian, Sporting News reported.

The Romanian gymnast made it clear that she felt she was cheated out of the Broze because of Jordan. No wonder Jordan is taking the blame even though she had nothing to do with this situation. Bad form Sabrina Maneca-Voinea, bad form.

[Daisy]

Okay - I am just going to say this.  I still maintain my positions on this but Sabrina - if you are quitting gymnastics over this - then maybe you shouldn't have been an athlete to begin with. Again a miss like that sucks monkey but misses like that happen all over sport and costs people but they don't quit sport and go after the athletes who won. like sorry if this sounds mean - but you have a lot of growing up to do. 

 

18 minutes ago, Makai said:

New statement by USA Gymnastics saying they have proof that the inquiry was submitted 47 seconds after Jordan’s score was posted. 

Once again this makes me want to know how Romania determined when Jordan’s inquiry was submitted and what evidence the CAS used in their ruling. 

yeup. def. 2002 vibes with this drama. So what the eff was the CAS ruling then?

[Conotocarious]

And with this CAS current ruling Sabrina still gets nothing so I guess she’s still quitting then?

Ana is the one who has been gracious during this mess. Sabrina definitely has not.

[scarynikki12]

7 minutes ago, Daisy said:

So what the eff was the CAS ruling then?

I saw a theory on Twitter that it was based on when the inquiry was logged while the US has footage showing when the inquiry was initially raised. Raised could be the 47 or 55 seconds while the Logged could be the 64. And if they're going to take this seriously then it needs to be the RAISED that counts because adding the information to the computer can absolutely take a minute even if the most up to date model.

[Daisy]

Just now, scarynikki12 said:

I saw a theory on Twitter that it was based on when the inquiry was logged while the US has footage showing when the inquiry was initially raised. Raised could be the 47 or 55 seconds while the Logged could be the 64. And if they're going to take this seriously then it needs to be the RAISED that counts because adding the information to the computer can absolutely take a minute even if the most up to date model.

Ahh.. yeah i can see how that can get a bit confused. and I am with you. so CAS probably saw :"logged in late" so the ruling is easy peasy. but didn't take into account the actual " accepted/assessed" which is on time. (which. again that's KIND OF YOUR JOB, CAS).  - so it falls back onto the Jordan side of the scale. 

Which means it's back to Jordan and Ana loses out. (poor poppet - more so that she had to go through this entire mess to begin with). again judges. do your job. this gets avoided. 
 

6 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

And with this CAS current ruling Sabrina still gets nothing so I guess she’s still quitting then?

 

what cracks me up is that in my head - no matter how this slices she never wins anything. Ana beat her. would she have quit then? or would it be "Oh! I won?! I rediscovered my love of sport, i'm back now!"  like. sorry this seems like a big boohoo i didn't get anything, I'm quitting temper tantrum and I don't abide those. like sorry if this sounds mean - but grow up. [if she is retiring due to injury as well, then i take back some of the snark. some of it - because she made it sound it's a quit because of this].

8 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

Ana is the one who has been gracious during this mess. Sabrina definitely has not.

she's the one i feel for the most. she won, she lost. she thought she had a chance -now she lost again because the freaking judges couldn't get it right the very first time. poor poppet.

[Notabug]

16 hours ago, surfgirl said:

Well @roamyn, since you quoted me, may I say that we are all entitled to our opinions. If you do not like mine I'm fine with that. I allow you your opinion even if I do not agree with you. Thisnis a very difficult situation and not everyone is going to think or feel as you do.

Secondly, the Romanians are, IMO, not 'following the rules' rather they are trying to game a bronze medal by crying foul over 4 seconds, which should be.moot IMO because the judges did not score Jordan correctly. If this was a case of let's say the Romanians felt Jordan stepped out of bounds and wasn't penalized for it and had she been then Ana would have won. That is, IMO, an absolutely appropriate cause to lodge a complaint. But Not in this case. In this case one gymnast was not correctly scored and there should be no time limit, let alone 4 seconds, on something that caused a legitimate winner to not win. So yes, #fuckthatshit. 

Maybe I'm mistaken and someone can correct me; but wasn't the out of bounds call that wasn't the sort of thing that cannot be protested?  Sort of how baseball teams cannot argue balls and strikes.  The Romanians did file a complaint about it, but it was dismissed and it was my understanding that it was because it could not be reversed according to the rules.  If the US' original petition has now been reversed because it was 4 seconds too late; then certainly Romania, which felt their athlete was penalized unfairly but had to accept the judges' initial penalty, maybe decided to protest the 4 seconds because it was something that could be litigated. To me, it seems like they mainly lodged the protest against Jordan's score revision because they realized it was their only viable chance to help their team.

As a big fan of baseball and football, I certainly understand how heartbreaking it can be when your team is unfairly penalized, it is just a shame that Romania ended up breaking Jordan's heart in retaliation.

Edited August 11 by Notabug

[Makai]

51 minutes ago, Notabug said:

Maybe I'm mistaken and someone can correct me; but wasn't the out of bounds call that wasn't the sort of thing that cannot be protested? 

No, neutral deductions like out of bounds calls can be challenged. 

51 minutes ago, Notabug said:

The Romanians did file a complaint about it, but it was dismissed and it was my understanding that it was because it could not be reversed according to the rules. 

The unofficial reports coming out of the hearing is that Sabrina’s coach filed an inquiry for her difficulty score and not the neutral deduction which is why was denied. They tried to raise that with the CAS but it was denied again. 

Edited August 11 by Makai