S23.E12: No Good Deed

[Xeliou66]

Here is the discussion thread for tonight’s episode. 

[shapeshifter]

From lawandorder.fandom.com/wiki/No_Good_Deed:

Quote

Shaw and Riley investigate the death of a therapist with a long list of troubled clients. Baxter takes over Price's chair when a disturbing connection to the defendant is discovered during the trial.

 

[Xeliou66]

Pretty good episode, it was very interesting to see Baxter take the lead in prosecuting, I liked it, maybe because it was nice to see Baxter’s lawyering skills in the courtroom and to get more of a feel for the character, and maybe because Price is so low key that it was nice to see someone with a more commanding presence take over. 
Everyone seemed cranky tonight, Baxter and Price had a heated discussion, Riley seemed salty with Price, and Shaw lost his cool in the interrogation room and Riley had to hold him back which wasn’t like Shaw. I did like seeing some more fire from Price actually, usually he’s so low key that he doesn’t bring the intensity, so we saw something different there. I think Baxter and Price needed to clear the air, and I think Baxter had a point about how Price viewed him, I think Price was comparing Baxter to McCoy some of the time and did have suspicions that Baxter was a “carnival barker” and more politician than lawyer, and I liked that even Maroun called out Price for his views on Baxter. 
Speaking of Maroun she was barely in the episode, and I didn’t miss her, she is bland and doesn’t add much. 
I could’ve done without the ending twist of the rape victim attempting suicide, that felt tacked off for shock value and cheapened the episode. Baxter was 100% right to not make offer any deal, the piece of shit killer did not deserve a chance at ever seeing the light of day again, they made a deal with him last time and he killed as soon as he got out, he needed to go away for life. He was pure evil. 
It was so predictable that the DAs would lose the necklace the killer took, it’s tiresome how they lose evidence on a motion to suppress in every episode, but at least this time they did something with it and explained that this judge was biased towards the defense and was more concerned with his image and not getting rulings overturned than with the law, and I liked seeing Baxter confront him towards the end and say he would appeal the ruling and delay the trial, I thought Baxter would get held in contempt but it was satisfying to see.

The investigation was shorter than normal and they zeroed in on the killer quickly, but some investigations are like that. Still the detective part of the show flows much better than the legal side.

This was pretty compelling and there was a lot to unpack here, I liked seeing Baxter get in the courtroom, I’m liking him as the DA and it’s interesting to see how his relationship with Price/Maroun is evolving, and like I said I think Baxter made valid points about how Price viewed him. It will be interesting to see if things are smoother now between them. Looks like Baxter will be front and center again in the season finale, they are definitely giving him a large role. 

[Raja]

I thought they established back in 1999 that "In the criminal justice system, sexually based offenses are considered especially heinous. In New York City, the dedicated detectives who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Special Victims Unit." Wasn't this one of  their stories?

[Irlandesa]

I liked seeing Baxter in the case but I was so frustrated with the judge's decisions.  The ex-girlfriend of the  ex-boyfriend's testimony wouldn't be allowed if he were on trial.  It had no place in the trial against another man.  And then he was considering not allowing evidence from a crime he admitted to into evidence for comparison?

I'm very glad TG is on this show.  He has a gravitas that side had been missing, especially since McCoy had a reduced role in the reboot.

 

 

[dubbel zout]

7 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Speaking of Maroun she was barely in the episode, and I didn’t miss her, she is bland and doesn’t add much. 

I didn't miss her either, which says how badly the character is written and played.

I didn't think the case was all that interesting, tbh. Five years for a horrific rape is insulting to the victim, regardless of her fragility. Nolan made a terrible deal. 

While I enjoyed seeing Tony Goldwyn do more that dispense pearls of wisdom or snark, a DA doesn't prosecute, and it always bugs me when the show does that. I get the actors probably want more to do, but it's just not the part for that. I always loved seeing Adam Schiff work his magic behind the scenes, but Baxter hasn't been DA long enough to build those sorts of relationships. He was on thin ice with that judge to begin with, dressing him down in front of Nolan and the defense lawyer.

[Ohiopirate02]

6 hours ago, Raja said:

I thought they established back in 1999 that "In the criminal justice system, sexually based offenses are considered especially heinous. In New York City, the dedicated detectives who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Special Victims Unit." Wasn't this one of  their stories?

St. Olivia and her squad are too busy for a regular old rape-homicide by a guy who has only committed one other rape.  

[EtheltoTillie]

Now that’s how you use prior bad act evidence!  (This was discussed in another thread last week regarding the reversal of the Harvey Weinstein conviction.) The judge was ridiculous in buying that he wasn’t sure it was an S.  It was a shame they went with the victim’s suicide attempt. Also a shame that they took till the end of the episode to figure out they had that evidence. 

Edited May 10 by EtheltoTillie

[Theli11]

Just watched the episode and by God did they hit it out of the park. Nolan on the edge of tears to the point of his accent damn near slipping, I mean the acting and directing this episode was beautiful. I was do happy they didn’t do the fuck ass ridiculous dramatic music over the scene like they usually do and just let these two get to work. Might be the first time the Order surpassed the Law in a long time.. that’s not to say Shaw and Riley weren’t great, you can feel the emotions running high through the episode. Really great work here. 

54 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

While I enjoyed seeing Tony Goldwyn do more that dispense pearls of wisdom or snark, a DA doesn't prosecute, and it always bugs me when the show does that. I get the actors probably want more to do, but it's just not the part for that. I always loved seeing Adam Schiff work his magic behind the scenes, but Baxter hasn't been DA long enough to build those sorts of relationships. He was on thin ice with that judge to begin with, dressing him down in front of Nolan and the defense lawyer.

Not all DAs are cut from the same bread. AFAIK, I don’t think DAs are banned from prosecuting. And if the episode is good who am I to complain? Baxter seems a little green vs Adam who seemed to have a lifetime of public service under his belt. 
 

6 hours ago, Raja said:

I thought they established back in 1999 that "In the criminal justice system, sexually based offenses are considered especially heinous. In New York City, the dedicated detectives who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Special Victims Unit." Wasn't this one of  their stories?

Olivia, who is now finding time to do Cold Cases, is now requiring the 2-7 to pick up her slack. 
 

On a serious note, most rape/homicides go to the homicide detectives not Special Victims. Also, L&O isn’t limited to murders either. There’s assaults, kidnappings, and whatever the 2-7 picks up on. I’d honestly not mind to see one of these in a complex handling of it. But here we are.. 

[EtheltoTillie]

Apropos of absolutely nothing in this episode, I just want to note that I always confuse Billy Crudup and Hugh Dancy.  I guess Claire Danes does too, because she dated one and married the other . . .

[Ohiopirate02]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

It was so predictable that the DAs would lose the necklace the killer took, it’s tiresome how they lose evidence on a motion to suppress in every episode, but at least this time they did something with it and explained that this judge was biased towards the defense and was more concerned with his image and not getting rulings overturned than with the law, and I liked seeing Baxter confront him towards the end and say he would appeal the ruling and delay the trial, I thought Baxter would get held in contempt but it was satisfying to see.

 

One would think that Shaw and Reilly would know now to get a warrant before snooping in the suspect's belongings.  

[Raja]

29 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

One would think that Shaw and Reilly would know now to get a warrant before snooping in the suspect's belongings.  

Or give their supervisor Lieutenant Dixon a roll beyond the  "what are you waiting for" line after the exposition dump. A lot of the time, probably to save time for ad space,  she like ADA  Maroun, is being barely used. To me like the Lieutenant on the LA series as compared to Lieutenant Van Buren

2 hours ago, Theli11 said:

On a serious note, most rape/homicides go to the homicide detectives not Special Victims. Also, L&O isn’t limited to murders either. There’s assaults, kidnappings, and whatever the 2-7 picks up on. I’d honestly not mind to see one of these in a complex handling of it. But here we are.. 

However on the shows they established that when that first officer on scene or coroner's investigator on the scene suspected rape their next step was to call SVU.

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

One would think that Shaw and Reilly would know now to get a warrant before snooping in the suspect's belongings. 

And would stop being shocked—shocked!—when a suspect runs after they ID themselves as NYPD. Maybe wait until you're closer than 30 feet, huh, guys?

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

One would think that Shaw and Reilly would know now to get a warrant before snooping in the suspect's belongings. 

6 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

And would stop being shocked—shocked!—when a suspect runs after they ID themselves as NYPD. Maybe wait until you're closer than 30 feet, huh, guys?

Why do they do the warrantless search and the unnecessary chase scene in every episode?

Is it because a chase and a warrantless search are:

1. script requirements?
2. fillers needed because writers' hours have been cut?
3. …?

FWIW, I thought this week's chase scene had more colorful background scenery than most. If they must do a chase in (almost) every episode, how about more graffiti? 

Edited May 10 by shapeshifter

[Ohiopirate02]

23 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Why do they do the warrantless search and the unnecessary chase scene in every episode?

Is it because a chase and a warrantless search are:

1. script requirements?
2. fillers needed because writers' hours have been cut?
3. …?

FWIW, I thought this week's chase scene had more colorful background scenery than most. If they must do a chase in (almost) every episode, how about more graffiti? 

I think it's #2 for different reasons.  I think the various budgets casting and location specifically have been cut to the point that they show cannot afford to shoot multiple scenes at multiple locations with different day players.  So we are not getting the detectives at the bar checking the boyfriend's alibi with my favorite L&O stock character because they also need to have scenes at the halfway house.  The writers then add the chase scenes to pad out the halfway house segment.   

[paigow]

The Hudson University Curse was broken... The unfortunate Ms. Shell was an NYU student when attacked by Mr. Payne

[paigow]

7 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Apropos of absolutely nothing in this episode, I just want to note that I always confuse Billy Crudup and Hugh Dancy.  I guess Claire Danes does too, because she dated one and married the other . . .

[txhorns79]

15 hours ago, Theli11 said:

Not all DAs are cut from the same bread. AFAIK, I don’t think DAs are banned from prosecuting. And if the episode is good who am I to complain? Baxter seems a little green vs Adam who seemed to have a lifetime of public service under his belt. 

I think at least the New York County DA refrains from prosecuting because they really are busy doing other things (they oversee hundreds of attorneys and a huge office), and their presence at the prosecutor table would immediately turn a case into a spectacle.    

The handling of the perp's former victim did make things feel like a SVU episode.  I also thought we might get a "Is this because I'm a lesbian?" moment when Baxter and Nolan were arguing alone in Baxter's office, as it seemed like passions were running high and they might just kiss. 

Edited May 11 by txhorns79

[Raja]

9 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I think at least the New York County DA refrains from prosecuting because they really are busy doing other things (they oversee hundreds of attorneys and a huge office), and their presence at the prosecutor table would immediately turn a case into a spectacle

Well Mr. Baxter came to an office where Price was the  acting DA and prosecuting a case, so how hard can it be?

[paigow]

10 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I think at least the New York County DA refrains from prosecuting because they really are busy doing other things (they oversee hundreds of attorneys and a huge office)

Baxter fired everyone EXCEPT Price & Maroun...

[jcbrown]

On 5/9/2024 at 7:15 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Speaking of Maroun she was barely in the episode, and I didn’t miss her, she is bland and doesn’t add much. 

On 5/10/2024 at 3:02 AM, dubbel zout said:

I didn't miss her either, which says how badly the character is written and played.

I actually much preferred the episode without her. The character/actor sucks the energy out of every scene she is in.

[wknt3]

18 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I think at least the New York County DA refrains from prosecuting because they really are busy doing other things (they oversee hundreds of attorneys and a huge office), and their presence at the prosecutor table would immediately turn a case into a spectacle.   

Correct. But there is nothing in NY law that would prevent a DA from prosecuting a case themselves. It is routing in smaller counties although less common in larger offices - usually reserved for cases that are extremely high profile and politically sensitive, where losing is likely to result in the DA losing an election (i.e. LEOs killed in the line of duty) and would probably take up all of their time and attention in any case.
 

8 hours ago, Raja said:

Well Mr. Baxter came to an office where Price was the  acting DA and prosecuting a case, so how hard can it be?

But they made it pretty clear that Price was overwhelmed and it seemed like he was doing a pretty bad job of running the office. And as always it was more about the budget than anything else - they weren't going to spend the money to bring in another attorney, And even this writing staff wasn't going to try to get us to believe that Maroun was lead attorney on a major case.
 

7 hours ago, paigow said:

Baxter fired everyone EXCEPT Price & Maroun...

So you're arguing he can't be THAT concerned about image and politics?

[paigow]

1 hour ago, wknt3 said:

So you're arguing he can't be THAT concerned about image and politics?

He wants to highlight his immediate cost-cutting measures to the electorate in addition to winning cases....

[Raja]

51 minutes ago, paigow said:

He wants to highlight his immediate cost-cutting measures to the electorate in addition to winning cases....

They really leaned into the Law & Order speedy trial. Did he say the special election was a  week away? Just like a TV schedule for a season finale.

[buckboard]

On 5/10/2024 at 7:28 PM, txhorns79 said:

The New York County DA refrains from prosecuting because... their presence at the prosecutor table would immediately turn a case into a spectacle.   

I think that was Baxter's point in taking on the case.  He is running in the election and wanted the publicity as he won the case.

[jalady]

The law side of this case was a mess.  You can’t impeach a witnes with prior arrests, only convictions - and only some convictions in certaIn jurisdictions - and the ex-girlfriend’s testimony would never have been allowed.  And don’t even get me started on the warrantless search in the suspect’s room and seizure of the necklace.  I 🙄 as it was happening and waited patiently for the successful suppression motion.    The judge was right, politics or not.

[Joimiaroxeu]

For a second I thought the victim was being played by Scarlett Johansson.

You'd think the first suspect--the victim's boyfriend--would've put on a different kind of outfit afterward if he'd actually killed her. The detectives zoomed right in on his hoodie and baseball cap.

The suspect Riiey and Shaw chased sure had energy. He was pretty arrogant after they caught him too, as if he was confident they couldn't make a solid case against him.

Aw, were Price's widdle fee-fees hurt that Baxter opted to prosecute the case himself? He got almost teary-eyed.

Why would the prosecution ask the dead victim's boyfriend to read the defendant's letter to her on the witness stand? That was macabre.

I didn't realize Sam McMurray (he played the judge) was doing purely dramatic roles now.

I hadn't seen that actress who played the defense attorney since she was on the Snowfall series playing a crack dealer's mother in 1980s L.A. Per her IMDb page this was her 5th role on L & O.

Ditto comments upthread, that was an amazing argument between Price and Baxter. The actors worked well with each other. Maybe Tony Goldwyn's arrival gave Hugh Dancy a much-needed recharge.

Baxter blatantly threatened the judge's job to his face! Those are the kind of high-level political maneuvers mere ADA Price can't pull to keep a case on track. (It also helps if you used to be POTUS, lol.)

Edited May 13 by Joimiaroxeu

[shapeshifter]

45 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Why would the prosecution ask the dead victim's boyfriend to read the defendant's letter to her on the witness stand? That was macabre.

I couldn't figure that out at all.

 

 

46 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Baxter blatantly threatened the judge's job to his face! Those are the kind of high-level political maneuvers mere ADA Price can't pull to keep a case on track.

I wonder if this is a one-off, or if Baxter will pull it on a regular basis.
It could make up for the detectives' routine failures to get search warrants. (kidding)

[paigow]

18 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Baxter blatantly threatened the judge's job to his face! 

Baxter: Nolan, for the last time-  I am not Jack McCoy

Price: Agreed, that old SOB took down the Governor

[blackwing]

On 5/9/2024 at 9:15 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Pretty good episode, it was very interesting to see Baxter take the lead in prosecuting, I liked it, maybe because it was nice to see Baxter’s lawyering skills in the courtroom and to get more of a feel for the character, and maybe because Price is so low key that it was nice to see someone with a more commanding presence take over. 
Everyone seemed cranky tonight, Baxter and Price had a heated discussion, Riley seemed salty with Price, and Shaw lost his cool in the interrogation room and Riley had to hold him back which wasn’t like Shaw. I did like seeing some more fire from Price actually, usually he’s so low key that he doesn’t bring the intensity, so we saw something different there. I think Baxter and Price needed to clear the air, and I think Baxter had a point about how Price viewed him, I think Price was comparing Baxter to McCoy some of the time and did have suspicions that Baxter was a “carnival barker” and more politician than lawyer, and I liked that even Maroun called out Price for his views on Baxter. 
Speaking of Maroun she was barely in the episode, and I didn’t miss her, she is bland and doesn’t add much. 
I could’ve done without the ending twist of the rape victim attempting suicide, that felt tacked off for shock value and cheapened the episode. Baxter was 100% right to not make offer any deal, the piece of shit killer did not deserve a chance at ever seeing the light of day again, they made a deal with him last time and he killed as soon as he got out, he needed to go away for life. He was pure evil. 
It was so predictable that the DAs would lose the necklace the killer took, it’s tiresome how they lose evidence on a motion to suppress in every episode, but at least this time they did something with it and explained that this judge was biased towards the defense and was more concerned with his image and not getting rulings overturned than with the law, and I liked seeing Baxter confront him towards the end and say he would appeal the ruling and delay the trial, I thought Baxter would get held in contempt but it was satisfying to see.

The investigation was shorter than normal and they zeroed in on the killer quickly, but some investigations are like that. Still the detective part of the show flows much better than the legal side.

This was pretty compelling and there was a lot to unpack here, I liked seeing Baxter get in the courtroom, I’m liking him as the DA and it’s interesting to see how his relationship with Price/Maroun is evolving, and like I said I think Baxter made valid points about how Price viewed him. It will be interesting to see if things are smoother now between them. Looks like Baxter will be front and center again in the season finale, they are definitely giving him a large role. 

I agree with all of this, it was nice to see Baxter participating and it was nice to see Price standing up for himself.  I feel bad for Price on this show, most of the time, the writers seem to write him like a chump.  Everything is always his fault, all the bad decisions are his, etc.  It often feels like they purposely make him look bad in order to make Saint Maroun look better.  Like he's being the dumb and hard headed one in contrast to the calm voice of reason that is Saint Maroun.  And yet he seems to be one of the few ADAs that Baxter did not fire.

I have grown to loathe Maroun so I was extremely happy that she was barely in this episode.

On 5/9/2024 at 11:51 PM, Irlandesa said:

I liked seeing Baxter in the case but I was so frustrated with the judge's decisions.  The ex-girlfriend of the  ex-boyfriend's testimony wouldn't be allowed if he were on trial.  It had no place in the trial against another man.  And then he was considering not allowing evidence from a crime he admitted to into evidence for comparison?

That judge was ridiculous.  First off, in almost every episode before this one, there's always a different judge who rules on the inadmissibility of key evidence from the judge who actually conducts the trial.  Why did they get the same judge twice?  It's par for the course that the necklace would have been thrown out, but all the testimony as to the boyfriend's character was ridiculous.  Like Price said, he wasn't the one on trial.  And yet the judge allowed his ex-girlfriend on the stand to say the boyfriend was a bad person?  Ridiculous.  The defendant was the one on trial, not him.

On 5/12/2024 at 10:19 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Why would the prosecution ask the dead victim's boyfriend to read the defendant's letter to her on the witness stand? That was macabre.

The murder victim received this letter and short of the defendant taking the stand in his own defence there was no other way to get the evidence into trial without someone talking about it.  Witnesses have to be listed in advance (except in the L&O courtroom apparently which always has surprise 11th hour witnesses), so the prosecutors would have known that the defendant wasn't going to testify.  I think the boyfriend was the only way the letter would have gotten in.  He knew about it because his girlfriend told him about it.  And she almost certainly showed it to him.  

[shapeshifter]

On 5/12/2024 at 11:19 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Why would the prosecution ask the dead victim's boyfriend to read the defendant's letter to her on the witness stand? That was macabre.

I thought that was weird too.

30 minutes ago, blackwing said:

He knew about it because his girlfriend told him about it.  And she almost certainly showed it to him.  

Oooh. Right. I forgot about this:

• [VICTIM'S BF IN INTERROGATION] Look, you're wrong. I loved Angela. I would never hurt her.
• ( door clicks open ) ( tense music ) I'm Lieutenant Dixon. Let's just say we believe you. For now, anyway. Here is a list of Angela's clients. Any of those names ring a bell? Did she ever mention any of those people to you?
• [BF] She talked about this guy before. Shawn Payne. He sent her this creepy letter from prison.
• Creepy how?
• [BF] He just kept talking about how amazing she was and that he wanted to be friends with her after he was released.

[paigow]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

• Creepy how?

Ice-T kicks the door open and rants for 10 minutes about examples from SVU case files...

[paigow]

A long time ago, Maroun talked about her dating problems... now she should meet a guy with shady friends / family and Shaw turns her into a deep cover operative...

[King of TV]

On 5/10/2024 at 12:03 AM, Raja said:

I thought they established back in 1999 that "In the criminal justice system, sexually based offenses are considered especially heinous. In New York City, the dedicated detectives who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Special Victims Unit." Wasn't this one of  their stories?

 

I was wondering the same thing. I'd assume because they originally didn't know that the therapist got sexually assaulted.