S04.E04: Starget

[AntFTW]

Quote

Tired of being used by others to get further in the game, two underestimated players band together to blindside the biggest threat in the house. Two powerhouse champions meet in the Arena for a long-awaited battle.

Air date: April 24, 2024 on Paramount+

Edited April 24 by AntFTW

[bunnyface]

I keep getting a message saying Paramount + has a bug and it won't open.  Anyone else?

 

[AntFTW]

58 minutes ago, bunnyface said:

I keep getting a message saying Paramount + has a bug and it won't open.  Anyone else?

 

No. Both the app and website work fine for me.

[Lantern7]

Helluva episode. It came down to Rachel and Cara Maria chucking axes/throwing stars at a board, and Cara won. Kinda sucks for Rachel to go out this early, but it does leave Veronica and Tina without their athletic friend. Oh, and Jasmine got Rachel’s star because she targeted Cara, so now she’s got a “starget” (clever) on her back. Brandon also faces Cara’s wrath because he voted for her.

The game is real. Honestly, Flora only received one vote. She was the safest pick, but the middle group of five wanted to pit star-holders against each other.

Good episode, good mission (yeah, I’m old school like friggin’ Adam), and great soundtrack. We also got a prelude to the disaster that is Laurel/Nicole, so it wasn’t the perfect episode.

[lasu]

Cara Maria put on one of the worst performances in modern Challenge history, IMO.  Her entitlement that people who clearly could not beat her in a final should help her get to a final was bonkers.  It's very easy for her to be ride or die for Jasmine - it's ALWAYS going to be in her favor if Jasmine is in the game.  She acted completely insane.  And it did NOT slip past me that the second Brandon said something back (that was accurate and stated mildly - that they hadn't spoken in 8 years), she immediately threw out the word "aggressive."  SHE was the only person who was aggressive, up to and including her opponent.  HER aggression towards Jasmine especially was really not fun to watch, but I did enjoy Jasmine calmly telling her to mind her business in the sand.  Did anyone else catch that CM deemed herself "Stara Maria"???  What the actual fuck?

I don't know if Rachel could have beat CM in a physical battle, but I would have liked to have seen one.  Either way, I never expected to be pulling so hard for Rachel.  I always hope that when someone takes some time away they will come back improved, but CM seems to have come back worse.  I'm now watching AGGRESSIVELY hoping CM loses and soon.

[Cherry Styles]

Cara is acting very unlikable.  I used to think she was ok.  

I was cracking up when Laurel bent down and Nicole was on the dresser and freaked out saying, too close, too close!  Did Nicole cheat and thats why they broke up?

Kam is a natural beauty. Her freckles are adorable. 

Edited April 25 by Cherry Styles

[AntFTW]

14 hours ago, lasu said:

It's very easy for her to be ride or die for Jasmine - it's ALWAYS going to be in her favor if Jasmine is in the game.

Jasmine was completely justified in her vote. Jasmine did what was best for her game. She voted in competitors that she believes she can’t beat, and one them went home. That’s good for Jasmine.

Cara burned her vote and played the middle when an ally asked for a favor. Now, she’s mad that someone she considers an ally doesn’t do her a favor.

Jasmine was always the stepping stone to advance someone else’s game. In addition to not being the most skilled person in these challenges, she usually gets the short end of the stick through sheer bad luck. Jasmine often got tied to people who also weren’t good at these challenges. Also, she was always someone’s sacrificial lamb.

In this episode, she has a little bit of power and I’m glad she took the shot. It was starting to look like these women were just going to let Rachel and Cara skate by.

Edited April 25 by AntFTW

[angelamh66]

I used to love Cara back in the day, then not so much once she got with Paulie and started acted very entitled etc... I was thinking I was ready to have her back though and without him. Last night was a little reminder of what I don't like about her, but I think I might still end up rooting for her because I think she will end up in an underdog role this season and be targeted all the time. Also, while the entitlement bothers me, I am hard pressed to think of a frequently successful person on this show who does not behave that way.

[AntFTW]

3 minutes ago, angelamh66 said:

I used to love Cara back in the day, then not so much once she got with Paulie and started acted very entitled etc... I was thinking I was ready to have her back though and without him. Last night was a little reminder of what I don't like about her, but I think I might still end up rooting for her because I think she will end up in an underdog role this season and be targeted all the time. Also, while the entitlement bothers me, I am hard pressed to think of a frequently successful person on this show who does not behave that way.

Maybe, but Cara herself is proof that you can be successful in the game without acting entitled. She has two wins to her name and got those wins without acting entitled.

[peachmangosteen]

I just binged the first 4 eps and the biggest takeaway I’ve had so far from this season is that I truly can not stand Kam. The entitlement is off the charts with her. And I know she is looking for some kind of praise from everyone because she left her baby and has to pump or whatever but she’s not getting it from me. Why her and Leroy would both do this when they have an infant is beyond me.

22 hours ago, Cherry Styles said:

Kam is a natural beauty. Her freckles are adorable.

I do agree with this though lol. She is easily one of the most beautiful women ever on the show.

Edited April 25 by peachmangosteen

[Caudex]

On 4/25/2024 at 2:16 AM, lasu said:

 Did anyone else catch that CM deemed herself "Stara Maria"???  What the actual fuck?

Well, she won a star. 😉 Or two, in this case.

Rachel's seasons were before my time, so I was rooting for Cara Maria. I had to mute the show because the music was going to ruin it for me, but then they did slo-mo when CM did her last throw and that gave it away.

I get that Brandon has to get CM out in order for himself to win, but did he really expect her not to get upset for being blindsided?

 

[AntFTW]

12 minutes ago, Caudex said:

I get that Brandon has to get CM out in order for himself to win, but did he really expect her not to get upset for being blindsided?

I'm sure he did expect her to be mad. If Brandon didn't expect Cara to be mad, he wouldn't have lied to Cara when she checked in with Brandon and Jay to see if they were leaning toward throwing her in. Brandon lied and said they hadn't talked about who they would throw in when they did.

[ljenkins782]

On 4/24/2024 at 7:16 PM, lasu said:

Cara Maria put on one of the worst performances in modern Challenge history, IMO.  Her entitlement that people who clearly could not beat her in a final should help her get to a final was bonkers.  It's very easy for her to be ride or die for Jasmine - it's ALWAYS going to be in her favor if Jasmine is in the game.  She acted completely insane.  And it did NOT slip past me that the second Brandon said something back (that was accurate and stated mildly - that they hadn't spoken in 8 years), she immediately threw out the word "aggressive."  SHE was the only person who was aggressive, up to and including her opponent.  HER aggression towards Jasmine especially was really not fun to watch, but I did enjoy Jasmine calmly telling her to mind her business in the sand.  Did anyone else catch that CM deemed herself "Stara Maria"???  What the actual fuck?

The Stara Maria thing was a little cringey, like she'd thought of it before and was just waiting to use it in public. The crowd was unimpressed. 

I can understand her being upset about her friends voting her in, but she handled it so poorly, the public tantrum was never going to get any other reaction than what it got.

Quote

I don't know if Rachel could have beat CM in a physical battle, but I would have liked to have seen one.  Either way, I never expected to be pulling so hard for Rachel.  I always hope that when someone takes some time away they will come back improved, but CM seems to have come back worse.  I'm now watching AGGRESSIVELY hoping CM loses and soon.

What a waste this elimination was, you have Rachel vs CM and the competition is throwing stuff? I think one of the winners should have taken a shot once they saw what the elimination was, it was basically a coin toss. Could have been an epic physical battle.

This is the least objectionable I've ever found Rachel, so of course she's out early this time. I'm glad Veronica and Tina are left without their athletic friend and politicker, as I still find both of them fairly obnoxious. It's especially funny that Veronica is left with Tina, who she clearly doesn't like all that much and who she knows isn't going to do her much good in the game. 

[Badlands]

I get that Cara acted entitled, but it doesn't hold a candle to Cam. She is still complaining that Cara didn't vote in the person Cam personally wanted last week, despite it not even mattering. Now, she is equating that terrible "betrayal" with someone Cara thought was an ally voting her into elimination??

Are people really getting upset over silly puns? "Stara Maria" and "Starget" might be cringey, but they're completely benign plays on words.

Otherwise, I find this to be an extremely boring season. There is too much of the Tina/Veronica/Rachel trio (now duo) and Laurel/Nicole, neither of which I could care much less about.

[peachmangosteen]

3 hours ago, Badlands said:

I get that Cara acted entitled, but it doesn't hold a candle to Cam. She is still complaining that Cara didn't vote in the person Cam personally wanted last week, despite it not even mattering. Now, she is equating that terrible "betrayal" with someone Cara thought was an ally voting her into elimination??

THANK YOU!

[realitytvfan1017]

On 4/24/2024 at 1:19 PM, Lantern7 said:

Helluva episode. It came down to Rachel and Cara Maria chucking axes/throwing stars at a board, and Cara won. Kinda sucks for Rachel to go out this early, but it does leave Veronica and Tina without their athletic friend. Oh, and Jasmine got Rachel’s star because she targeted Cara, so now she’s got a “starget” (clever) on her back. Brandon also faces Cara’s wrath because he voted for her.

The game is real. Honestly, Flora only received one vote. She was the safest pick, but the middle group of five wanted to pit star-holders against each other.

Good episode, good mission (yeah, I’m old school like friggin’ Adam), and great soundtrack. We also got a prelude to the disaster that is Laurel/Nicole, so it wasn’t the perfect episode.

I enjoyed the episode too. Sad to see Rachel go but made for some good drama for the viewers to see what would happen .

On 4/24/2024 at 7:16 PM, lasu said:

Cara Maria put on one of the worst performances in modern Challenge history, IMO.  Her entitlement that people who clearly could not beat her in a final should help her get to a final was bonkers.  It's very easy for her to be ride or die for Jasmine - it's ALWAYS going to be in her favor if Jasmine is in the game.  She acted completely insane.  And it did NOT slip past me that the second Brandon said something back (that was accurate and stated mildly - that they hadn't spoken in 8 years), she immediately threw out the word "aggressive."  SHE was the only person who was aggressive, up to and including her opponent.  HER aggression towards Jasmine especially was really not fun to watch, but I did enjoy Jasmine calmly telling her to mind her business in the sand.  Did anyone else catch that CM deemed herself "Stara Maria"???  What the actual fuck?

I don't know if Rachel could have beat CM in a physical battle, but I would have liked to have seen one.  Either way, I never expected to be pulling so hard for Rachel.  I always hope that when someone takes some time away they will come back improved, but CM seems to have come back worse.  I'm now watching AGGRESSIVELY hoping CM loses and soon.

I don’t know if she is was upset about them voting for her or being blindsided by them. I heard mixed things from Brandon regarding their relationship and with editing we don’t know what their actual alliance was. 

[realitytvfan1017]

On 4/26/2024 at 12:11 PM, Caudex said:

Well, she won a star. 😉 Or two, in this case.

Rachel's seasons were before my time, so I was rooting for Cara Maria. I had to mute the show because the music was going to ruin it for me, but then they did slo-mo when CM did her last throw and that gave it away.

I get that Brandon has to get CM out in order for himself to win, but did he really expect her not to get upset for being blindsided?

 

This. It’s the whole blindsided thing. Plus it might have been too early to vote for her . 
 

Also I don’t get why people have a problem with CM’s reaction and not Kam’s reaction for something similar .

13 hours ago, Badlands said:

I get that Cara acted entitled, but it doesn't hold a candle to Cam. She is still complaining that Cara didn't vote in the person Cam personally wanted last week, despite it not even mattering. Now, she is equating that terrible "betrayal" with someone Cara thought was an ally voting her into elimination??

Are people really getting upset over silly puns? "Stara Maria" and "Starget" might be cringey, but they're completely benign plays on words.

Otherwise, I find this to be an extremely boring season. There is too much of the Tina/Veronica/Rachel trio (now duo) and Laurel/Nicole, neither of which I could care much less about.

Agreed I don’t get why people are getting on more of CM’s case not Kam’s?

[Writing Wrongs]

13 hours ago, Badlands said:

Otherwise, I find this to be an extremely boring season. There is too much of the Tina/Veronica/Rachel trio (now duo) and Laurel/Nicole, neither of which I could care much less about.

I've been binge-watching everything The Challenge on Paramount + and I was disappointed in the cast for this All Stars Season. Half of them I don't really know and as much as it can get old having the same players, I do miss the likes of Wes, CT, Jordan and Bananas. I guess I'm rooting for Cara.

It still amazes me that after all the years and challenges that everyone still gets so butt hurt about being voted in to eliminations. 

[Jobiska]

13 hours ago, Badlands said:

I get that Cara acted entitled, but it doesn't hold a candle to Cam. She is still complaining that Cara didn't vote in the person Cam personally wanted last week, despite it not even mattering. Now, she is equating that terrible "betrayal" with someone Cara thought was an ally voting her into elimination??

This is where I come down too.  Kam really acts like people should be playing for her and Leroy's game.  

Rachel was a good sport (I didn't like her in the past, mainly because she was awful to Sarah Greyson on their RR season).  I enjoyed the elimination--at least it was something different.  Here I was thinking that if you hit "stand on one leg" it would mean your opponent had to do so!  And they both sailed stars over the top of the board, which was funny.  

The unbraiding ropes was interesting but we didn't really get the full effect--all we saw was a tangle of Challenger-grapes hanging on the vine.  It's interesting what is easier or harder to make exciting on film.  

Was Tina implying that TJ's blue shirt was er, what is the new word, dripp?, or that he looked awful, when she said "who's your stylist?"  Considering it was a short sleeved blue button down, I'd say this time Jeff Probst was his stylist!  

[AntFTW]

1 hour ago, realitytvfan1017 said:

Agreed I don’t get why people are getting on more of CM’s case not Kam’s?

59 minutes ago, Jobiska said:

This is where I come down too.  Kam really acts like people should be playing for her and Leroy's game.

They all act like that. Kam really threw her weight around during that Ayanna/Rachel vote. The reason I'd say Cara is being discussed more than Kam is that Cara's moment of entitlement has come full circle in the few episode that we had. I'm not saying this to justify Kam's entitlement but I do think there is a slight distinction.

During the vote for Ayanna and Rachel, Cara made a move to help herself. I don't think Cara was wrong to protect her own star when it came to voting for Rachel. Now, others have made moves to help themselves to Cara's detriment and Cara's mad about it.

To summarize, Cara told Jasmine "you went against me when I was rooting for you and on your side." Cara told Brandon "you were my favorite person, my #1, and we were in this together and you voted for me." I'm paraphrasing the words.

In much the same way Kam thought her and Cara were playing together to benefit each other, scratching each other's backs, Cara thought the same of Jasmine and Brandon (or maybe mostly Brandon). Cara had expectations of them just like Kam had of Cara.

[realitytvfan1017]

7 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

They all act like that. Kam really threw her weight around during that Ayanna/Rachel vote. The reason I'd say Cara is being discussed more than Kam is that Cara's moment of entitlement has come full circle in the few episode that we had. I'm not saying this to justify Kam's entitlement but I do think there is a slight distinction.

During the vote for Ayanna and Rachel, Cara made a move to help herself. I don't think Cara was wrong to protect her own star when it came to voting for Rachel. Now, others have made moves to help themselves to Cara's detriment and Cara's mad about it.

To summarize, Cara told Jasmine "you went against me when I was rooting for you and on your side." Cara told Brandon "you were my favorite person, my #1, and we were in this together and you voted for me." I'm paraphrasing the words.

In much the same way Kam thought her and Cara were playing together to benefit each other, scratching each other's backs, Cara thought the same of Jasmine and Brandon (or maybe mostly Brandon). Cara had expectations of them just like Kam had of Cara.

I get it, if people want to feel that way about CM they should feel that way about Kam too.

[realitytvfan1017]

1 hour ago, Jobiska said:

This is where I come down too.  Kam really acts like people should be playing for her and Leroy's game.  

Rachel was a good sport (I didn't like her in the past, mainly because she was awful to Sarah Greyson on their RR season).  I enjoyed the elimination--at least it was something different.  Here I was thinking that if you hit "stand on one leg" it would mean your opponent had to do so!  And they both sailed stars over the top of the board, which was funny.  

The unbraiding ropes was interesting but we didn't really get the full effect--all we saw was a tangle of Challenger-grapes hanging on the vine.  It's interesting what is easier or harder to make exciting on film.  

Was Tina implying that TJ's blue shirt was er, what is the new word, dripp?, or that he looked awful, when she said "who's your stylist?"  Considering it was a short sleeved blue button down, I'd say this time Jeff Probst was his stylist!  

Funny Tina said that because Devin from the official podcast loves his clothes. I haven’t watched too many of the early seasons , but I get the impression that Rachel is one of those people who have matured since her early days , wish I could say the same about Ayanna..

 

True about Kam and CM.

[AntFTW]

9 minutes ago, realitytvfan1017 said:

I get it, if people want to feel that way about CM they should feel that way about Kam too.

Maybe so. I just think that so far this season we haven't seen Kam make a move for her own game and then be mad about it when someone else an ally or friend does it to her.

Edited April 28 by AntFTW

[realitytvfan1017]

2 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

Maybe so. I just think that so far this season we haven't seen Kam make a move for her own game and then be mad about it when someone else does it to her.

It’s still early. She could still do so. I could see her doing that. 

[realitytvfan1017]

On 4/27/2024 at 7:40 PM, Writing Wrongs said:

I've been binge-watching everything The Challenge on Paramount + and I was disappointed in the cast for this All Stars Season. Half of them I don't really know and as much as it can get old having the same players, I do miss the likes of Wes, CT, Jordan and Bananas. I guess I'm rooting for Cara.

It still amazes me that after all the years and challenges that everyone still gets so butt hurt about being voted in to eliminations. 

Nowadays its difficult to see what would differentiate someone being on All Stars or the flagship show. Technically the four you mentioned could be on either show. Kam and Leroy by definition could be on either show too, Aneesa has done both. I do like the cast. I like the diversity. There are some really old school players and some a bit more recent. I'm rooting for Cara too.

 

[snarts]

23 minutes ago, realitytvfan1017 said:

Nowadays its difficult to see what would differentiate someone being on All Stars or the flagship show.

100% 

Maybe they don't have wide enough talent pool of older challengers but I for one would love to see a true All-Stars edition that didn't include anyone who could be cast on the flagship.

I "think" that was Mark Long's initial plan that has now been co-opted and the lines blurred.

Knowing that Syrus & Genesis were alternates is super disappointing. I'd much rather they'd been on the show than Cara Maria or Brad. 

I'd make a combo rule that all contestants must be 40+ and not on any version of the Challenge within the last 10 years. Further, they could lessen the physicality of the actual challenges/eliminations to be more age appropriate and make both the location and length of filming easier for working professionals.

With those changes, I think they'd get a on of interest from past challengers. I know I'd find it much more enjoyable to watch. 

[AntFTW]

2 minutes ago, snarts said:

Knowing that Syrus & Genesis were alternates is super disappointing. I'd much rather they'd been on the show than Cara Maria or Brad.

Brad could have taken a break.

[lasu]

On 4/27/2024 at 6:17 AM, Badlands said:

Are people really getting upset over silly puns? "Stara Maria" and "Starget" might be cringey, but they're completely benign plays on words.

Why do you think I was upset?  I was embarrassed for her to have given herself the nickname, not upset.

 

On 4/27/2024 at 7:16 PM, realitytvfan1017 said:

Also I don’t get why people have a problem with CM’s reaction and not Kam’s reaction for something similar .

I'm not a jury.  I can like one person and not another for the same behavior.  Obviously people I like I give more of a pass to, and I like Kam and Leroy better than I like Cara (and Paulie).

 

On 4/27/2024 at 9:33 PM, realitytvfan1017 said:

I get it, if people want to feel that way about CM they should feel that way about Kam too.

This isn't how people work though.  Just like a lot of people here think Kam's actions were way worse than CM's - I think it depends on who you liked better to start with, and that's ok.  None of us agreed to be fair and balanced and treat everyone on our TVs with a completely impartial eye.

 

On 4/27/2024 at 9:39 PM, AntFTW said:

Maybe so. I just think that so far this season we haven't seen Kam make a move for her own game and then be mad about it when someone else an ally or friend does it to her.

This as well.  While I'll fully admit I like Kam more than Cara, I totally give a fresh chance when someone has been away for a while, so I wasn't holding CM's past against her.  But she completely expected Kam to understand that CM would make moves to better her own game, but then went bonkers when it happened to her.  The worst thing I heard Kam say was something to the effect of finding it "disgusting" that CM would put the game above friendship, which is a completely asinine thing to say. Of course CM is going to do that.  But then the only other things I remember her saying was directly to CM's face (calmly) that she didn't feel like CM had her back (which she didn't - CM was rightly playing her game) and later Kam said that CM clearly had an alliance that included star holders which didn't include her, and therefor it's against her. Dramatic perhaps, but not wrong.

It does look like there is more between then coming up, but so far, I haven't seen Kam throw a temper tantrum the way CM did.  It's a shame, to me, because CM used to be someone to really root for, and now she's such a powerhouse it would be fun to watch her win if she wasn't so whiny.  

None of this is to "prove" that CM is worse than Kam.  I just don't feel like if I'm going to address one person's behavior I have to write a response on every other person who might have behaved similarly.  We can all like and dislike whomever we want for any ol' reason at all.  

Edited April 29 by lasu

[ljenkins782]

On 4/29/2024 at 11:19 AM, snarts said:

100% 

Maybe they don't have wide enough talent pool of older challengers but I for one would love to see a true All-Stars edition that didn't include anyone who could be cast on the flagship.

I "think" that was Mark Long's initial plan that has now been co-opted and the lines blurred.

Knowing that Syrus & Genesis were alternates is super disappointing. I'd much rather they'd been on the show than Cara Maria or Brad. 

I'd make a combo rule that all contestants must be 40+ and not on any version of the Challenge within the last 10 years. Further, they could lessen the physicality of the actual challenges/eliminations to be more age appropriate and make both the location and length of filming easier for working professionals.

With those changes, I think they'd get a on of interest from past challengers. I know I'd find it much more enjoyable to watch. 

I don't understand how people like Genesis wind up on the alternates list when the original purpose of this show was to bring back people we hadn't seen in a long time. 

Bring back the oldest schoolers you can find and then fill in the rest of the spots with the more current people as needed.

[Jobiska]

Cara is definitely somewhat emotionally--I don't know if insecure is the right word--labile, I guess.  I think from my personal life of dealing with emotionally labile people I am inured and it sort of rolls off my back, though I can see why it would be annoying.  On the other hand, what gets my goat is that Kam presented their situation as Cara "not having her back" while IIRC Cara's vote didn't make any difference at all--kind of like Tina voting for Rachel this time.  Rachel was all "Tina is not a very good political player" in her talking head, but with a sort of fondly exasperated "whatcha gonna do?" (Especially since, again, Tina's vote wouldn't have mattered).  Another example of Rachel's maturing.  

I think what frustrates me (and I normally like Kam) is how she sort of presented it as "well the only logical thing to do would have been to support ME" when it. didn't. make. a. difference.  It was nowhere near gaslighting, but it gave me the same icky feeling, like she was mentally superior or something.   In other words, if you are going to act as if you are being logical, then you have to be logical, and if Cara's vote didn't matter, then your objection is not logical.  And on the flip side, if you are going to approach things from pure emotion, well, prepare for people to be annoyed, because tantrums are super-annoying but they are just a release of emotion by someone that doesn't do it very maturely--and Cara's blew over by the time she was in the arena.  But I totally get how they might not be the favorite thing for some viewers.  Or some Challengers!

So--mileage varies!  no judgment!

Edited May 1 by Jobiska

[AntFTW]

13 minutes ago, Jobiska said:

Rachel was all "Tina is not a very good political player" in her talking head, but with a sort of fondly exasperated "whatcha gonna do?" (Especially since, again, Tina's vote wouldn't have mattered).  Another example of Rachel's maturing.  

Rachel was still very much annoyed that Tina said her name even though it would have made no difference. Rachel still gave Tina a hissy fit about it.

[aghst]

Really liked the Daily.

later teams did have an advantage though.

Elimination was a crapshoot.  Cara did kind of develop a technique but even one of her last throws missed the entire board.

So it seems like luck had a lot to do with it.

All Star season is shorter so each vote is more consequential and people who thought they’d be protected are being voted in.