S36.E06: Our Alliance Strikes Again

[smartymarty]

On 4/19/2024 at 1:07 PM, proserpina65 said:

I kept telling them to forget the route entirely and concentrate on what pieces of the puzzle linked up in a continuous path.  Obviously they didn't listen to me.

My husband kept saying "obviously the corners have to be pieces with curves." Nobody listened to that, either.

[smartymarty]

On 4/20/2024 at 4:39 PM, katalizt said:

I think for roadblocks, I don't mind them cooperating during the task, but I would like a rule that says that once you finish your task and receive your clue, you may no longer help other teams. 

I like this idea. I agree with others that, allowed or not, it's not interesting to watch. I don't mind the occasional cooperation at one task, but not the "wait for everyone before we leave," and certainly not the boxing out. Didn't we have one season where 4-5 teams aligned against one? It became really mean.

On 4/21/2024 at 12:34 AM, kitkat343 said:

So while it is really unpleasant watching her get knocked around, the thing about bubble soccer is that eventually the opponents seem really likely to let you score (how many times could you knock down someone who looks like your mom before you'd step back and let her finish the challenge?)

On 4/21/2024 at 10:55 AM, QuantumMechanic said:

My favorite moment in the episode was when Rod finally realized all he had to do to get the soccer goal was to just truck everyone in his way and just kick it in. 

I've played bubble ball. Weight is very important. My friend and I, neither more than 110 pounds, could get a 10 yard running start to drive into another player, and we'd just bounce off of them. So Rod had a great advantage in that the other players likely could not push him over, or not as easily as many of the women. Thank goodness the players eventually let those lighter players score.

 

6 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

Angie feeds into some of Danny's negative character traits as she's the one who keeps talking about his wonderful navigational skills (which actually hover between average and a bit below average [they have gotten a bit lost a few times')

Remember though, that the GPS generation has no navigational skills to begin with. Angie is old enough to have had to read off maps, but possibly, like me (I'm older than her) still doesn't do to well with it (I usually think I need to turn right when it's left). So Danny may just have better navigational skills than others, though not perfect.

[Brown44]

Is the working together cheating? Maybe, but when this season is 90% on a continent that speaks one language (except Brazil) and one team that both speak that language and they've been at the finish 1 or 2 for the entire race then I fill it evens it self out. Bc you can easily say Ricky and Ceasar has had an advantage the entire race. It took Juan half the season to finally realize to use knowing spanish to the teams advantage. 

Edited April 22 by Brown44

[iMonrey]

On 4/20/2024 at 5:36 AM, Browncoat said:

A quick "look at the colors of the wheels" as you're leaving the challenge is vastly different from, "hey, sit over there and rest while I do your challenge for you."

I honestly don't understand the teeth gnashing and foot stomping over this. If Amber decides to do the puzzle for Angie it's only to Amber's own potential detriment. It's not ruining the entire race for everyone else. I suppose if you were really hoping Angie and Danny would be eliminated this leg you're pissed at Amber for helping them but as others have pointed out, this sort of thing has been going on since the inception of this show. If you don't like teams working together, then next time you go on The Amazing Race, don't work with other teams. {shrugs}

On 4/21/2024 at 9:06 AM, chaifan said:

She's had 2 issues with heat. 

Correct.

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She's holding her own. 

Incorrect. Lying on the ground in need of medical assistance or having to take a time-out from a Roadblock and suggesting they take the penalty is not "holding her own." She is not cut out for this, period. (And for the record, I don't think it has anything to do with her age. We've seen older contestants do better.)

Edited April 22 by iMonrey

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

If Amber decides to do the puzzle for Angie it's only to Amber's own potential detriment.

No. Because I spent an entire week waiting on this episode and then Amber single-handedly turned it into a steaming pile of crap. 

It isn't because I wanted Danny & Angie (or anyone else in particular) to be eliminated. It's because I wanted Danny, Angie and everybody else to run their own race. Yes, this sort of crap has been going on for far too long and I was of the understanding that after the "Mine Alliance" a few seasons ago almost got TAR kicked off the air for good, that steps were going to be taken to minimize that sort of crap in future. 

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

If you don't like teams working together, then next time you go on The Amazing Race, don't work with other teams. {shrugs}

If you like contestants playing the social game I suggest the next time you go on a reality show you go on the one called Survivor instead.

[SDVegas]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

If Amber decides to do the puzzle for Angie it's only to Amber's own potential detriment. It's not ruining the entire race for everyone else.

It’s ruining it for me

[IvySpice]

A nine-piece jigsaw puzzle, people. NINE! I would give that puzzle to a kindergartener. You do the outside edges first, and then you move on to the -- no, you don't move on to the inside, because there's only one piece in the middle, because there are only NINE!! For the love of Mike. When cops, firefighters, and nurses can't do any better than football trophy wives, you know you picked a stupid cast.

[Lantern7]

45 minutes ago, IvySpice said:

A nine-piece jigsaw puzzle, people. NINE! I would give that puzzle to a kindergartener. You do the outside edges first, and then you move on to the -- no, you don't move on to the inside, because there's only one piece in the middle, because there are only NINE!! For the love of Mike. When cops, firefighters, and nurses can't do any better than football trophy wives, you know you picked a stupid cast.

Maybe they had the pieces upside down in a few spots. Apologies if I’m making excuses, but I think that I would’ve ridden that track a few dozen times before completing that puzzle.

[North of Eden]

22 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

But, I also think once there are fewer teams and Rod and Leticia feel held back by Angie and Danny that they will be out of there.  Amber may want to stay and help, but I think Vinnie won't be that patient down the road.

Well said. I totally agree  and believe if we could have peered into Vinnie's mind he probably wanted to dash out of there and not stay and help with the puzzle but wasn't going to risk Amber's wrath overnight in the pitstop. HIs aggressive personality does nothing to suggest he would want to hang around while his girlfriend does someone else work.

[Ancaster]

Can someone explain what the "mine alliance" was that has been referred to?

Thanks.

[Netfoot]

37 minutes ago, Ancaster said:

Can someone explain what the "mine alliance" was that has been referred to?

Thanks.

From memory, so perhaps not 100% accurate:

In Season 32, teams were sent into a (salt?) mine to perform a challenge. Five teams formed an alliance while in the mine (hence the name, but also sometimes the "Mine Five"). It ruined the remainder of the season and resulted in so many complaints and negative reaction from the viewers, there was a real fear that TAR would be cancelled. TPTB promised that steps would be taken to ensure that this would be curtailed.

[Notabug]

40 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

From memory, so perhaps not 100% accurate:

In Season 32, teams were sent into a (salt?) mine to perform a challenge. Five teams formed an alliance while in the mine (hence the name, but also sometimes the "Mine Five"). It ruined the remainder of the season and resulted in so many complaints and negative reaction from the viewers, there was a real fear that TAR would be cancelled. TPTB promised that steps would be taken to ensure that this would be curtailed.

Probably the most important thing about the Mine 5 is that they targeted other teams for elimination and were pretty successful in ganging up and getting the non-alliance teams out.  In fact, all 5 top finishers that season were Mine 5 teams.  And it wasn't because they were so superior to all the other teams, but that they were able to work together to boot those who weren't part of the group.

[Netfoot]

17 minutes ago, Notabug said:

all 5 top finishers that season were Mine 5 teams.  And it wasn't because they were so superior to all the other teams, but that they were able to work together to boot those who weren't part of the group.

Exactly so.  It makes the "Race" part of The Amazing Race irrelevant. It just becomes The Amazing Popularity Contest.

[iMonrey]

17 hours ago, Netfoot said:

If you like contestants playing the social game I suggest the next time you go on a reality show you go on the one called Survivor instead.

Teams deciding to help each other is called strategy. It doesn't transform the race into a social game. It's still a race. The Amazing Race isn't purely long distance running. There's all kinds of strategy involved, including which Detour to choose, or deciding which team member should do the Roadblock. Deciding to work with another team to insure you stay ahead of other teams is simply another one of those strategic choices. 

I'm sorry if that ruins the whole show for you but I honestly don't know how this choice was so heinous it garnered this level of grievance. We're talking about one team helping another team. 

[Netfoot]

13 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

We're talking about one team helping another team. 

A strategy which you yourself reminded us has been going on for the last 36 seasons - a strategy which has been near-universally panned throughout that entire time. Some people believe it makes for a worse show, and I happen to be one of those persons.

Edited April 23 by Netfoot

[iMonrey]

6 hours ago, Netfoot said:

A strategy which you yourself reminded us has been going on for the last 36 seasons - a strategy which has been near-universally panned throughout that entire time.

"Near universally panned?" I'd call that a pretty wild exaggeration. Yes, some fans don't like it when teams help each other. Some fans don't care, some fans see the wisdom in the strategy and sometimes the strategy backfires. It's all part of the race. The issue specific to this episode seems to be that Amber virtually did Angie's puzzle for her, which is about as far as one can go in terms of helping another team. I can't think of another instance where that's happened before to that degree, but again, if it's not against the rules it's not against the rules.

I'm not the type to watch a show for 36 seasons wishing it was a different show, buy hey. To each his (or her) own.

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I'm not the type to watch a show for 36 seasons wishing it was a different show, buy hey.....

Are you sure?

I've watched the show for 36 seasons. It has changed over the 23 years of it's run. Some changes I approve of and some I don't. When I approve, I say so. When I don't, I say so. 

No, I am for the most part OK with the race as it stands. I think if you looking for someone who spent 23 years / 36 seasons waiting for Jeff to replace Phil and really hoping they introduce Hidden Immunity Idols, you need to look elsewhere.

[iMonrey]

15 hours ago, Netfoot said:

No, I am for the most part OK with the race as it stands. I think if you looking for someone who spent 23 years / 36 seasons waiting for Jeff to replace Phil and really hoping they introduce Hidden Immunity Idols, you need to look elsewhere.

Huh? I never expressed interest in seeing either of those things happen. Or, are you implying that anyone who thinks collaboration or alliances on the Race wants it to be more like Survivor? I think scorning Race fans who think alliances are OK is rather uncalled for. Anyone who wasn't especially bothered by Amber's action isn't a lesser or inferior fan of the show.

[IvySpice]

I'm not opposed to alliances. But I am opposed to people who can't do 9-piece jigsaw puzzles succeeding on the race. Insofar as the first leads to the second, I'm against it. I'm glad, at least, that the team that went home failed fair and square.

I would LOVE to be a fly on the wall in the control room for some of these challenges. You know that even with all the prep work they do, sometimes the contestants must shock them by doing much better or much worse than expected.

[PurpleTentacle]

On 4/23/2024 at 6:43 AM, IvySpice said:

A nine-piece jigsaw puzzle, people. NINE! I would give that puzzle to a kindergartener. You do the outside edges first, and then you move on to the -- no, you don't move on to the inside, because there's only one piece in the middle, because there are only NINE!! For the love of Mike. When cops, firefighters, and nurses can't do any better than football trophy wives, you know you picked a stupid cast.

It was not a jigsaw puzzle. It was a puzzle that had tiles with perfectly straight sides. Which means you can't easily see where the corners of the puzzle are. Also you could have had the pieces in the wrong direction. Something that also doesn't happen with a jigsaw puzzle.

Of course a lot of the teams made it much harder than it needed to be, but they were exhausted from the heat. It's probably not as easy as it seems from your comfy couch.

On 4/23/2024 at 3:54 PM, Netfoot said:

It ruined the remainder of the season and resulted in so many complaints and negative reaction from the viewers, there was a real fear that TAR would be cancelled.

I think that was very overblown. That was a bad season, but nobody in charge was afraid that that would lead to a cancellation.

TAR had bad seasons before. It would need to have real low viewer numbers to get cancelled and that season didn't.

[Netfoot]

8 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I think that was very overblown. That was a bad season, but nobody in charge was afraid that that would lead to a cancellation.

Maybe you are right. But it's the only time I recall that they vowed to make changes to prevent it from happening again. So, I suspect something made them feel they had to do damage control.

‘The Amazing Race’: Mine Five Alliance Backlash Might Result in New Rules For Future Seasons

 

Edited April 25 by Netfoot

[aemom]

On 4/22/2024 at 4:37 PM, iMonrey said:

Lying on the ground in need of medical assistance or having to take a time-out from a Roadblock and suggesting they take the penalty is not "holding her own." She is not cut out for this, period. (And for the record, I don't think it has anything to do with her age. We've seen older contestants do better.)

I suspected and then confirmed my thoughts by checking the CBS website.  Shelisa and Angie are the same age (55) and Derek is 57, and there is no comparison of their fitness levels.

[IvySpice]

On 4/24/2024 at 11:36 PM, PurpleTentacle said:

It was a puzzle that had tiles with perfectly straight sides. Which means you can't easily see where the corners of the puzzle are.

Ah, but you can. The outside pieces are those that don't have roads running outside the puzzle. It has to depict a closed loop. All of the clueless contestants were trying "solutions" that showed the road running off the border of the frame, or into a wall. That shows they didn't even grasp the premise of the puzzle. Shelisa understands the pressure of the race very well, and she was appalled by Derek's failure, too. (She was kind about it, though -- credit to her as a supportive spouse.)

Of course it's harder in real life than on the couch. This is what the show is about. These contestants were shockingly terrible at a typical task (doing an easy puzzle under physical and time pressure) on a game show in its 36th season. I will root against such contestants and complain about the casting choices that put them on my TV. Not every season has so many hapless contestants left in the game by episode 6.

I am really bad at basketball, but I can still judge when an NBA player fails at the fundamentals of their job. If your free throw percentage is 25%, I don't want to watch you play the game. That's true even if my percentage would be 1%.

Edited April 26 by IvySpice

[PurpleTentacle]

4 hours ago, IvySpice said:

Ah, but you can. The outside pieces are those that don't have roads running outside the puzzle. It has to depict a closed loop.

No you can't. The outside pieces can look just like the inside piece. For example the upper middle piece turned 90° to the right could absolutely be mistaken to fit in the center slot.

I think what you don't get is that every piece has 4 different possible rotations in 9 different spots, which theoretically shakes out to 262.144 different combinations. Of course roads can't go off the map, which narrows it down, but not by that much.

This puzzle is deceptively hard, especially without a fixed starting location. If commenters can't figure that out from the comfort of their couch, I don't begrudge racers for not figuring it out in the south american heat.

Edited April 26 by PurpleTentacle

[Netfoot]

I make it nine tiles which can be fitted into any of nine locations on the board and rotated into any of four orientations. 9x9x4 = 324 possible "solutions", by which I mean "ways to fit the tiles to the board". Of these, obviously only one solution will be correct.

Now any tile which, due to it's location and orientation, has a road crossing the outside perimeter is automatically wrong. So for example, the top/left tile can only be oriented the way it is shown here. If it is rotated to any other orientation, at least one road will exit via the outside perimeter. So in fact there is only one valid orientation for this tile in this location. Checking the other eight orientations, there are usually only one or two valid orientations possible for this tile, with the very center spot being the exception allowing all four orientations. This reduces possible orientations by at least half for this tile. Extend for all tiles and we can expect only 162 "solutions".

Also, a road can only enter or leave a tile via an inner boundary if the road is met by a matching road across the boundary on the next tile. This can give us some clues as to which tile goes next to which. For example, the central tile shown has two roads crossing the southern boundary boundary very close together, to be met by two roads on the tile below. I can't see any way these two tiles could be paired up, other than with each other. 

Now I know they only had three minutes to solve this, and after a heart-pumping run around the circuit  they might be fighting off adrenaline and all that. But I think it's clear that this was really a puzzle rather than a memory challenge. And that the nature of the puzzle - where the location and orientation of the tiles  were constrained in certain ways - made it a lot less difficult than just guessing the correct combination from the original 324 solutions.

Throw in the fact that there was nothing to stop you from being guided to a degree by what ever you could remember from your spin around the track.....

[PurpleTentacle]

2 hours ago, Netfoot said:

I make it nine tiles which can be fitted into any of nine locations on the board and rotated into any of four orientations. 9x9x4 = 324 possible "solutions", by which I mean "ways to fit the tiles to the board". Of these, obviously only one solution will be correct.

It's 4^9, which is 262.144 possible solutions.

2 hours ago, Netfoot said:

Now any tile which, due to it's location and orientation, has a road crossing the outside perimeter is automatically wrong. So for example, the top/left tile can only be oriented the way it is shown here. If it is rotated to any other orientation, at least one road will exit via the outside perimeter. So in fact there is only one valid orientation for this tile in this location. Checking the other eight orientations, there are usually only one or two valid orientations possible for this tile, with the very center spot being the exception allowing all four orientations. This reduces possible orientations by at least half for this tile. Extend for all tiles and we can expect only 162 "solutions".

It's less than "at least half", since the middle tile would throw that off. But let's say it is half, that still leaves us 131.072 possible solutions.

2 hours ago, Netfoot said:

Also, a road can only enter or leave a tile via an inner boundary if the road is met by a matching road across the boundary on the next tile. This can give us some clues as to which tile goes next to which. For example, the central tile shown has two roads crossing the southern boundary boundary very close together, to be met by two roads on the tile below. I can't see any way these two tiles could be paired up, other than with each other. 

That is only true if you already have the tile below correct.

Sure only those tiles can be paired with each other, but where do they go? They could still be in a bunch of rotations.

2 hours ago, Netfoot said:

Now I know they only had three minutes to solve this, and after a heart-pumping run around the circuit  they might be fighting off adrenaline and all that. But I think it's clear that this was really a puzzle rather than a memory challenge. And that the nature of the puzzle - where the location and orientation of the tiles  were constrained in certain ways - made it a lot less difficult than just guessing the correct combination from the original 324 solutions.

Again, 262.144 possible solutions.

Now I'm not saying this is impossible to solve, obviously. Just that it is a lot more complicated than it looks at first glance.

Btw. here is a snapshot of the actual puzzle for reference:

[Netfoot]

22 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

It's less than "at least half", since the middle tile would throw that off. But let's say it is half....

I haven't tried every time in every location in every orientation but the first twin all nine locations is only valid in 16 locations/orientations kincluding 4 in the midde) which is less that half.

25 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

That is only true if you already have the tile below correct.

You don't have to have either of the two correct to know they fit together a certain way. So you effectively reduce your number of tiles from 9 to 8. 

28 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Sure only those tiles can be paired with each other, but where do they go?

Considering a double tile in a 9x9 matrix, there should only be 24 possible places for it to go, including orientations. (I'm in bed so can't double check that.) And since roads exit on both long sides, it must go in a central row or column. Which reduces the options to what? eight? And there are also two roads exiting on one short side which would thus be prohibited from being on the outer perimeter. Reducing the possible options to.... four? (Still trying to do it in my head.)

36 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Again, 262.144 possible solutions.

I'm not sure how you arrive at a fractional number of possible solutions...

38 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Btw. here is a snapshot of the actual puzzle for reference:

I have an image like that. I chose to post the screen-grab I did because the individual tiles were square. The details of bushes and buildings are of no consequence. I could have divided the angled view up into nine parallelograms and then distorted each back into a square but that was too much like work.

So yes, not a trivial problem to solve, but I think it's far less complicated than it appears.

[tinkerbell]

What made the puzzle difficult was the instruction that they needed to pay attention to the route as they were being driven around the track. Just the puzzle, without the ride, would have been easier.

 

[SDVegas]

1 hour ago, tinkerbell said:

What made the puzzle difficult was the instruction that they needed to pay attention to the route as they were being driven around the track. Just the puzzle, without the ride, would have been easier.

 

Exactly this 

[aradia22]

The megaleg was fun. There was real competition keeping things interesting between the top two with Ricky and Cesar actually struggling a little with some tasks. And even though it was annoying for the other teams, the alliance kept all of those teams from falling behind. The only unfortunate thing was that as much as editing tried to hide it, it was clear after a certain point that the retirees were not going to catch up.

The first three teams did not make a good advertisement for that recycling bike invention so I'm glad the others had an easier time of it. Given how much they love physical tasks, I don't understand why so many of them went with the bolo. You've never done it before!

Quote

Derek and Shelisa should have at least finished out their set of 10.  He might have gotten lucky!

Not the way he was throwing. She was right. 

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Is no one going to dust for clues? I'm so disappointed.

I completely forgot about that. I wonder what those people did all day when no racers showed up. I wonder if the losing team did a final task or if they just called them to the mat. 

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I am so fond of Derek and Shalisa.  So sorry to see them go.  

They bickered in a funny way. Now if KF hits, it's going to be rough to watch with any of the other teams.

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Danny reminds me of a younger version of Monk’s eager, annoying neighbor Kevin Dorfman.  

YES

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I just don't find the cast very compelling. There's no team I'm particularly rooting for

I'm growing to like Juan and Shane and Rod and Leticia but we just lost two of the teams I found more likeable (Derek and Shelisa and K&K). I would be happy if Ricky and Cesar won because they've been running a good race but it just wouldn't be that interesting as of right now, because very few other teams are challenging them. I might like Yvonne and Melissa if we got to see them more often. 

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 I liked how Cesar realized that being heavy gives him an advantage and he simply bump everybody out of the way.

That was cute... like his own little sports movie in the middle of the episode. Meanwhile, when Rod took the field, I got nervous for the other players when they started to knock him over 😅

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Especially in a challenge with limited stations, you need to have a ticking clock to force teams to either get it done or get kicked to the back of the line.

It was weird that they were so strict with 3 minutes for the cars but you could take as long as you wanted at the butcher task. Especially since they have had timed memory challenges very recently. 

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R&L have offered nothing to the "alliance", I don't even know how they got into that group. 

I guess they technically helped box out the other two teams at the meat task and probably remembered a few of the cuts. I'm surprised Mr. Puzzles couldn't remember 14 things on his own.

Quote

Back to the meat challenge, I kept thinking it was a waste of a lot of meat. 

I understand limiting it to three stations if only to not waste any more of it 😅

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Danny is the race fan here. He had applied multiple times with his sister, but the producers only let him on when he applied with his mom. Them's the breaks. You can only participate if production lets you.

Oof, so production is torturing Angie. Interesting that they've never mentioned Danny's sister. I thought he was an only child. 

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Knowing Spanish has been a huge advantage this season -- it seems pretty unfair. 

I can't remember if Leticia and Rod speak Spanish. But otherwise, of the remaining teams, Yvonne, Cesar, Juan, and Danny seem relatively fluent. But Vinny and Sunny also speak some Spanish. So it doesn't seem to be that much of an advantage especially since many teams up to this point have been eliminated because of their own incompetence. 

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Didn't Danny have some major health issues when he was younger?

I actually wanted a follow up. He was apparently allergic to the walls of his school (so he had to be homeschooled). How did he get well enough to presumably study abroad in college?

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In Season 32, teams were sent into a (salt?) mine to perform a challenge.

Ah, that makes sense. I skipped that season.

Quote

Btw. here is a snapshot of the actual puzzle for reference:

something about the way it seems to be drawn in red marker feels disorienting. But maybe that's just me

[Ducky]

I was not wild about the overabundance of helping in this episode.  I'm ok with alliances and helping (when it's beneficial) but good lord- Amber might as well have just stood in for Angie and Leticia and just did it herself.

Sad to see Derek and Shelisa go .... I really liked them- the bickering was so cute- it suited them; they've been together a long time so they know each other very well.  Miss Michelle and Sean too.

Vinny and Amber have been dating for FOUR years?! Never would have pegged that with the amount of passive aggressiveness and almost at each other's throat quite a lot.

Still not a big fan of the Firefighters, the Girlfriends feel like background people to me we don't see them as much.  I do hope that eventually Rod and Leticia break off from A/V and A/D.  Ricky/Cesar and Juan/Shane are pretty much racing their own race (basically racing against each other mainly lol) and doing well.

As for the tasks...I think zooming around the racetrack really messed with their orientation and probably got dizzy- not to mention sweltering so attempts at the puzzle was not great except for Juan(?) he blew that out of the water.  Wonder how I'd do with it but the 3 minute time limit eek.  I'm another wishing someone had done the fingerprint detour- bet that Derek  & Shelisha (I have no idea the correct spelling ugh) would have nailed it.  That bike recycling thing looked cool!

Hmm who's next to go (still behind on watching the episodes)...