S01.E05: Become

[Mr. Sparkle]

Airs Sunday, March 24th on AMC and AMC+

Dangerous people make Rick and Michonne's journey difficult.

[OoohMaggie]

It was good to see the Mad Monk once again, it seems such a long time ago.

Seeing Jadis getting her comeuppance was enjoyable, as could the whole episode have been, but once again the ridiculous moments of happenstance just spoiled it for me. Its just lazy, unimaginative writing that ruins what could have been truly entertaining and believable to boot.

Jadis tracks them down due to discarded noodle packets? I'm not sure if that was meant to be a joke or not 🙄

I'm rather hoping next week will be the end of things, the finale promo hints as though it may not be, we shall see.

I hope they put the money into Dixon does France and a few more episodes of The Beautiful One swinging between buildings in NYC.

 

[Sailorgirl26]

No soup for you! 

[Brown44]

For a Father Father Gabrielle sure be gettin @$$.

[Starchild]

I thought that last scene with Jadis dying, giving the ring to Rick, was powerful. I didn't expect her death to be so emotional. I teared up.

Of the 3 new shows this is the best. So of course it won't continue lol.

[Mr. Sparkle]

I've been on the fence with this show, but I really enjoyed this particular episode. In a rare moment, it wasn't predictable. The Father Gabriel/Jadis scenes were moving. Two annoying characters, but two talented actors. 

[Starchild]

I thought it was interesting how they suggested that, deep down, Jadis was always torn between CRM and Alexandria. How even when she was all in on the CRM, she was keeping that other door open, keeping Rick alive, hoping Rick and Michonne would win, even if subconsciously. And her scenes with Gabriel really helped shore up that idea.

[seacliffsal]

Loved the opening scenes with "The Good Life" playing.  A bit of life when the walkers/CRM aren't around.  Also found the calcification walkers interesting.

Wow, I don't recall anyone else getting bitten on the neck and then having a 'death' monologue that lasted, what seemed like, hours if not days...

The 'red gun' was no 'red machete.'

[Mr. Sparkle]

31 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

Wow, I don't recall anyone else getting bitten on the neck and then having a 'death' monologue that lasted, what seemed like, hours if not days...

Ha! I was thinking that was really stretched out. This franchise has always been "loose" with how quick it takes someone to die and then reanimate. 

[iMonrey]

Wait, where the hell are they? At one point there was a Wyoming mural behind them, are they in Wyoming? Jadis said her file on Alexandria was in her room in Cascadia, I think? So do they have to backtrack to Seattle to go get it? And then drive cross country back to Pennsylvania to take down the CRM? How are they going to do all that in an hour?

Ugh, it was all I could do not to fast forward through the Gabriel and Jadis scenes. I don't even remember them having a relationship, the last few seasons of TWD are such a blur. The show has grossly overestimated my interest in Jadis, who is quite possibly the most absurd character the show ever came up with no matter how hard they tried to fix her. This series would have been much better off without her instead of doubling down and reminding me how stupid she is. 

I really don't see how they can wrap this up in any kind of satisfactory manner with just one more episode. Maybe they won't. 

Are they really doing another season of World Beyond?

[Mr. Sparkle]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Wait, where the hell are they? At one point there was a Wyoming mural behind them, are they in Wyoming? Jadis said her file on Alexandria was in her room in Cascadia, I think? So do they have to backtrack to Seattle to go get it? And then drive cross country back to Pennsylvania to take down the CRM? How are they going to do all that in an hour?

This part threw me, because I've driven from PA to Virginia, and I don't recall such soaring and majestic mountains. I thought they were in Philly. 

[meep.meep]

There aren't mountains like that on the Eastern seaboard and I doubt they are in Vermont.  It looked like the Tetons to me.

I gave up on everything Walking Dead a few seasons ago and am only watching this for Rick and Michonne.  There's no way they wrap this up in 1 more episode.

[TattleTeeny]

14 hours ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

No soup for you! 

It would have been really funny if they had Michonne actually say this. 

[Sailorgirl26]

1 hour ago, TattleTeeny said:

It would have been really funny if they had Michonne actually say this. 

That whole scene was well done. Michonne saying the equivalent of "don't be an asshole for like, 10 minutes until we're gone, and you can have the noodles," and those wankers couldn't even pretend for 10 minutes!

Although, after thinking about it more today, I do wonder how those people were still alive. I know they were merely a plot device for the Jadis scene, but they were acting as though it was still early days and they didn't have much experience dealing with walkers. But we're what . . . 10 years in now? How did they survive for 10 years? 

[TattleTeeny]

She was very "exasperated mom" in that moment. And also, I gather, a big fan of noodles (takes one to know one!).

Quote

But we're what . . . 10 years in now? How did they survive for 10 years? 

More, I think. Didn't it say that Rick has been gone for 5 or more years?

Edited March 27 by TattleTeeny

[iMonrey]

2 hours ago, Mr. Sparkle said:

This part threw me, because I've driven from PA to Virginia, and I don't recall such soaring and majestic mountains. I thought they were in Philly. 

They started in Philly, that's where the CRM base is, but there's another on the west coast and I thought that's where they went two episodes ago, where Jadis was going to be stationed. I know there's not one in Omaha anymore but there's still one in Portland, I think? And I thought that's where they went two episodes ago. And now Rick and Michonne have to drive all the way back to Philly, which is why they would have been passing through Wyoming.

[Crashcourse]

I wonder, do they have barbers/hair stylists at these sites.  Jadis had a style that I don't think she did herself, Father Pee Pants had a shaved head (I guess he found a razor), Michonne keeps the hair on one side of her head always cut.  I guess Rick had a stylist at CRM?  Morgan head/facial hair was always neat.  These are just some of the actors, but I've noticed over the years that a lot of these people have hair styles that would need regular maintenance.  

[seacliffsal]

37 minutes ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

That whole scene was well done. Michonne saying the equivalent of "don't be an asshole for like, 10 minutes until we're gone, and you can have the noodles," and those wankers couldn't even pretend for 10 minutes!

Although, after thinking about it more today, I do wonder how those people were still alive. I know they were merely a plot device for the Jadis scene, but they were acting as though it was still early days and they didn't have much experience dealing with walkers. But we're what . . . 10 years in now? How did they survive for 10 years? 

The only thing I can think of is that they were part of that 'tech' community we saw last week so they have only been in the wild for a short time...really, though, why weren't they hanging out in the cabins where Rick and Michonne were heading?

[gutbuster]

Was I seeing things or did they bury Jadis at the end? I could've sworn on the last shot, before the credits, they zoomed out from a close up of a body-shaped disturbance of rocks on a river's edge with a little pebble marked with an A, which I assume would've been the tiny headstone.

I wasn't sure, because Michonne didn't have enough forgiveness to not snatch back those noodles, so I didn't see her mustering enough to give a nice burial to the person who was responsible for wrecking her family and who continued to threaten her children's lives right up until the very end. 

I'm really surprised they basically dedicated an entire episode of this to Jadis's character. I really didn't need this much closure for her. But it would seem that she really was 'Anne' at heart before drinking the CRM's Kool-Aid. I'm kind of surprised to find out that she kept going back to see Gabriel after all that time. I don't remember seeing any remnant of this sentimental side to her when the CRMified version of her first appeared in World Beyond.

The way Gabriel just kind of 'knew' at the end was sad. Was that last shot of him timestamped? So was Jadis killed a year ago in show time or was it back to present day? 

 

[Starchild]

Yeah they buried her, which I liked, nice touch to show they're retaining their humanity.

I think the last scene with Gabe was present day. She mentioned to R&M that she "shot someone a year ago who was a confidante" (paraphrased), presumably referring to Gabe, to convince them she wasn't Anne anymore. The fact she lied showed us she still was.

Edited March 25 by Starchild

[Artsda]

That was really good episode. Liked the incorporation of Gabriel then helicopter in the end. 

Rick and Michonne were great with the 3 ransoms taking back the soup. 

[nodorothyparker]

I assumed they were around Yellowstone between the Wyoming signs and the talk about geysers. We know they jumped from the doomed helicopter coming back from a mission somewhere in the Cascades and there aren't any geysers in the eastern half of the U.S.

I liked this mostly for seeing the Rick that we knew for so many years re-emerging, even if at times he seemed a little over compensating. If we're really going to watch them do a 180 now on returning to the CRM in what feels increasingly like a setup for a still unannounced second season, I guess it's better that it's almost entirely on Michonne's say-so instead of any more of Rick waffling about it even if the dossier as a motivator feels increasingly contrived. As far as anybody at the CRM supposedly knows, Rick and "Dana" died in that helicopter crash. If Jadis is also presumed dead when she doesn't come back, is anybody really going to care all that much about some file in among her things about some podunk place another dead officer came from? I could sort of see it if they were escapees known to be on the run, but now it just feels like a plot device to get them to reverse course after an entire episode of fighting and handwringing about not going back.

So ramen, booze, and a deserted cabin to have sex in. As my husband snarked, Michonne and Rick just got everybody's favorite weekend college road trip.

The calcified walkers were at least an interesting take. But guys, it's been something like 12 years showtime. Stop showing us hapless survivors who just can't fight or have any survival skills at all beyond halfassed robbery this far out. See also three hardened survivors apparently forgetting that the hapless survivors they just got killed would eventually turn and come back on them at just the right moment to set off the longest deathbed soliloquy we've been subjected to in awhile. About the only interesting revelation there is that Gabriel was apparently sneaking off from Rosita's harem and diaper duty from Father Not the Father's (thanks, Negan) kid every year to play confessor to a woman who pulled a gun on him repeatedly except for the five minutes she was trying to act normal.

Edited March 26 by nodorothyparker

[redpencil]

12 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Wait, where the hell are they? At one point there was a Wyoming mural behind them, are they in Wyoming? Jadis said her file on Alexandria was in her room in Cascadia, I think? So do they have to backtrack to Seattle to go get it? And then drive cross country back to Pennsylvania to take down the CRM? How are they going to do all that in an hour?

They're definitely in Wyoming, on their way from Cascadia to Alexandria. I think they were going for Yellowstone, given the talk of the calcified walkers. They have to go back to Cascadia since that's where Jadis's dossier is and I think where Beale is to give Rick the echelon briefing, but I don't think they will then have to turn around and go back to Pennsylvania. I think this is where all the talk of the "summit" will come in. All the CRM leaders will be there. I've been thinking since the first time it came up that it had to come into play by the last episode. At one point I thought the scene of the helicopter blowing up the building was going to end up being Rick taking out the summit, but that's out now.

[Daltrey]

I really got the overwhelming sense that we were supposed to sympathize with and have empathy for Jadis.... 😶

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Etc, etc.

Whatever.

Overall, the stupidity was kept to a bare minimum, I thought, though that's really not saying much. The usual suspects have already pointed out anything I noticed so, no point in rehashing any of that. I don't normally watch the previews or episode recaps but I took a second look at the potential burial site and then skipped ahead to the recap. I couldn't help but eyeroll at Gimple waxing poetic about it all as if they achieved Shakespearian grandiosity (listen to me!... When in Rome, I guess😆) Pollyanna seems like a cool person but it was kind of funny to hear her talk about what an awesome character Jadis was... I guess she was a lot of fun for her to play, with how ridiculous she was and convoluted she became.

The only way I see this ending in one more episode is if they open next week with some kind of events montage and/or some exposition voiceover facilitating a mini time jump - nothing drastic, don't come at me!😜 - something that gets us into the thick of it. Unfortunately, that's not something this universe seems able to easily do and for all the complaining I do, I find myself enjoying it enough that I wouldn't mind if they kept it going at least a little longer. Maybe a second season, anyway.

 

[iMonrey]

13 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

If Jadis is also presumed dead when she doesn't come back, is anybody really going to care all that much about some file in among her things about some podunk place another dead officer came from?

The fact that nobody has mentioned the Commonwealth suggests the CRM doesn't know about it. Which is odd because I still don't have a handle on what the CRM does. They gas anyone coming in their general direction to keep themselves "secret" and destroyed one of their own outposts in Omaha, but they don't care about other big communities like the Commonwealth? So long as they keep their distance? Or do they simply not know it exists, despite massive helicopters and it being relatively nearby? Jadis keeps referencing Alexandria but most of the Alexandrians moved to the Commonwealth after they took it over.

12 hours ago, redpencil said:

They have to go back to Cascadia since that's where Jadis's dossier is and I think where Beale is to give Rick the echelon briefing, but I don't think they will then have to turn around and go back to Pennsylvania. I think this is where all the talk of the "summit" will come in. All the CRM leaders will be there.

OH. I think I know where this might be going. Rick and Michonne will figure out a way to take out all the evil CRM leaders in one fell swoop, probably in some massive explosion. BUT - they will have to sacrifice themselves in order to do it. Which they will do for the safety of their friends and children. I get it now.

[Daltrey]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Jadis keeps referencing Alexandria but most of the Alexandrians moved to the Commonwealth after they took it over.

Assuming they even have any knowledge of the Commonwealth existing, would any of them be aware of that? Jadis, Rick and Michonne all left Alexandria long before those events took place, if I'm not mistaken. It's hard sometimes to reconcile what we as an audience knows versus what the characters know, lol.

[heisenberg]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

OH. I think I know where this might be going. Rick and Michonne will figure out a way to take out all the evil CRM leaders in one fell swoop, probably in some massive explosion. BUT - they will have to sacrifice themselves in order to do it.

Don't forget the tradition of leaving only a dead population and ashes wherever they go.😄

[millennium]

When it looked like Father Pee Pee Pants was about to be offed, I thought, "Why oh why couldn't Eugene have been her spiritual advisor?"

I don't know ... this had more humanity than other episodes.  I was hoping Jadis would admit there never was a dossier.   But no.

Why were the roads so clear everywhere they drove?  And after so many bad encounters with ungrateful deceitful rednecks, why do Rick and Michonne keep repeating mistakes of the past?

 

On 3/25/2024 at 10:50 AM, iMonrey said:

Ugh, it was all I could do not to fast forward through the Gabriel and Jadis scenes. I don't even remember them having a relationship, the last few seasons of TWD are such a blur.

I felt like I must have missed an entire season of TWD (of course that's just wishful thinking).

Edited March 27 by millennium

[Daltrey]

3 hours ago, millennium said:

I was hoping Jadis would admit there never was a dossier.

I half expected her to say that too. I also had to wrack my brain a little bit to remember her and Gabriel were a thing. How bad was the chemistry that everyone seems to have forgotten?🤣

[iMonrey]

14 hours ago, millennium said:

Why were the roads so clear everywhere they drove?

How are there even roads at this point? Anyone who has watched Life After People knows that without constant maintenance, paved roads would be absolutely crumbling this far into the ZA. And unpaved roads would be completely grown over and gone.

19 hours ago, Daltrey said:

Assuming they even have any knowledge of the Commonwealth existing, would any of them be aware of that? Jadis, Rick and Michonne all left Alexandria long before those events took place, if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah but that's what I mean. Jadis keeps saying Alexandria which suggests she doesn't know about the Commonwealth which also suggests the CRM doesn't know about it, or care about it. Which is odd. Her big threat is annihilating Alexandria but she has no way of knowing whether or not Michonne knows most of them moved to the Commonwealth, assuming she herself knows such a place exists. 

Edited March 27 by iMonrey

[Iguessnot]

I thought Jadis would mention where in her room the dossier is. It's still an incriminating file, so it can't be sitting around just willy nilly. Maybe the search for it will be a plot point, but she wasn't on her dying breath, so the lack of specification stood out.