S03.E06: Hello, Brother

[Lugal]

We meet Trevor's brother.  I assume Trevor, Pete and Flower are the only ones who still have any close family remaining.  I can see the commonalities between them for good and for ill.  But I liked that Trevor knew that it was best for Jeremy not to hang around the B&B all the time.  Hopefully Jay will close the loophole on the sign up offer.

I think Hetty's stories are worse than Thor's.  Both of them are still grimly hilarious though.

Isaac discovering dinosaurs was the highlight of the episode for me!  Although having read the book Fossil Legends of the First Americans, fossils were being found in his day, but they had not quite realized what they actually were.  They thought there could be mysterious monsters further inland, which incidentally was one of the side purposes of expeditions like Lewis and Clark's.

20 hours ago, Badsamaritan said:

But, am I the only one who never believed Carole's apology back then? I felt like she was putting on an act because it was expected but she was actually an asshole. So I wasn't surprised by this behavior like others were because this feels like the real Carole to me.

I don't know if it was an act so much as it was just easy for her, now that Pete's been gone nearly 40 years, to apologize to (what to her was) an empty room.  Now that they're back under the same roof, they seem to fall into old patterns, and we've seen over the years that Pete and Carol did not have the healthiest of relationships.  While I don't want to see her stick around long-term, I would feel kinda bad if she got sucked off before Pete.  Maybe she can fall down Flower's Well?

[Annber03]

7 minutes ago, SmithW6079 said:

I don't think Jeremy was a slacker. He admitted he loved working at the lamp company; he just didn't feel qualified taking it over. Maybe he's a great salesman but not a good manager and he's afraid of the Peter Principle. 

I can totally sympathize with Jeremy in that regard. I wouldn't want to be in charge of a business, either. Some people just aren't comfortable in those kinds of leadership roles.

I also sense that there was all the expectation that Trevor would naturally take over the family business, but then he went on into finance and then he died, so now their parents are expecting Jeremy to fill that void, and that just adds to whatever pressure and fear Jeremy's feeling. Not only is he expected to take over the family business, but he's also living in the shadow of his brother, whom he saw as the smart, capable one who could do anything. That's a lot to live up to. 

[possibilities]

I'm sympathetic about him not wanting to take over the family business. But not so much his willingness to bully and take advantage of the B&B and freeload there.

[BMGepinniw]

On 4/5/2024 at 1:47 AM, possibilities said:

Maybe they'll throw Carol in the well after they rescue Flower.

See Carol?  This is what happens if you mess with Pete.  And this is being kind in my opinion.  

[DanaK]

6 hours ago, possibilities said:

I'm sympathetic about him not wanting to take over the family business. But not so much his willingness to bully and take advantage of the B&B and freeload there.

But maybe that is a sign he would make a great businessman! Or maybe a robber baron

[possibilities]

10 minutes ago, DanaK said:

But maybe that is a sign he would make a great businessman! Or maybe a robber baron

No doubt!

(sad)

[enduringforce]

15 hours ago, appositival said:

I was thinking Carol was nowhere near as evil as Elias.

I think it has more to do with the ghost's willingness to change. Elias stated he was not going to change and would never change. Carol does not act like a person who wants to change; she is just as unkind and selfish as she was when she was living when she married Pete. Granted, she just arrived, but she has that pompousness and conniving that Elias had.

[eel2178]

On 4/5/2024 at 9:10 PM, PaulE said:

And that wasn't all of it.  When Isaac asked how they dealt with the problem of a building full of rats and she responded that, since it was a sausage factory, the problem took care of itself . . . oh my.  It took me a moment to realize the implications of that.  Hetty, you and your family were so, so awful.

Was this before Upton Sinclair wrote The Jungle in 1905, or were they trying to circumvent the Meat Inspection Act and the Pure Food and Drug Act (now the FDA)?

[kathyk2]

4 minutes ago, eel2178 said:

Was this before Upton Sinclair wrote The Jungle in 1905, or were they trying to circumvent the Meat Inspection Act and the Pure Food and Drug Act (now the FDA)?

Hetty lived during the 19th. century so before factories were regulated.

[kathyk2]

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

I'm sympathetic about him not wanting to take over the family business. But not so much his willingness to bully and take advantage of the B&B and freeload there.

In Trevor's Body his parents said that Jeremy was living in the basement and Trevor said he wasn't surprised. I'm impressed that Trevor was able to get into Penn considering his family wasn't wealthy. He must have been very smart.

[shapeshifter]

10 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

I don't think Jeremy was a slacker. He admitted he loved working at the lamp company; he just didn't feel qualified taking it over. Maybe he's a great salesman but not a good manager and he's afraid of the Peter Principle. 

Ooo! Someone else who appreciates The Peter Principle! I read that book when it came out in 1969 when I was in high school and never forgot it. 
It explains every horrible boss in a nutshell.

 

10 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

Regarding their lack of guests for the B&B: I think I'm invested in their business as I was in Bob's Burgers lack of business for his restaurant. 

Trevor's brother's comment about the lack of guests just kind of hung there. 
Sass could have commented about how Carol dying at the influencers' party wasn't exactly the way to drum up business.

[Chit Chat]

On 4/5/2024 at 9:26 PM, kathyk2 said:

I'm surprised Isaac didn't know about dinosaurs he never watched a TV program about them or read an article over someone's shoulder.

I liked Sass's response to Isaac questioning why he didn't know about dinosaurs, and Sass said, "because I pay attention!"  Isaac probably saw movies like Godzilla and just assumed that anything he else he saw about dinosaurs was made up.  

Sass always has a snarky comeback to questions like that, and that's one of the things I love about him! 

[iMonrey]

12 hours ago, enduringforce said:

I think it has more to do with the ghost's willingness to change. Elias stated he was not going to change and would never change. Carol does not act like a person who wants to change; she is just as unkind and selfish as she was when she was living when she married Pete. Granted, she just arrived, but she has that pompousness and conniving that Elias had.

I've been saying since she died that Carol and Elias might make a good couple. Maybe that's how she'll exit - not as a form of punishment or banishment, but because she develops the hots for Elias and follows him down, after he returns for some reason. 

[Mabinogia]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I've been saying since she died that Carol and Elias might make a good couple. Maybe that's how she'll exit - not as a form of punishment or banishment, but because she develops the hots for Elias and follows him down, after he returns for some reason. 

Match made in The Bad Place, that's for sure. I would love to see Pete and Hetty bond over jokes about their cheating spouses cheating on each other for all eternity. 

[kathyk2]

6 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Match made in The Bad Place, that's for sure. I would love to see Pete and Hetty bond over jokes about their cheating spouses cheating on each other for all eternity. 

I wouldn't compare Carol and Elias. Carol was a loving mother and grandmother. Elias had no good qualities at all. Carol makes me appreciate Flower even more than I already did. Flower worked with everybody in the cast Carol is a flat character.

[shapeshifter]

I think the writers are just purposely making Carol a temporary main character who we will be happy to see leave when Sheila's maternity leave is over.

[proserpina65]

Isaac and the dinosaurs had me in stitches.  That was the best thing about the episode.

On 4/5/2024 at 1:55 PM, Maelstrom said:

how sad little Pete will grow up without grandparents,

Presumably little Pete's father has parents, so not necessarily entirely without grandparents.

Personally I'm fine with direction they're taking with this storyline as long as Carol doesn't stick around too long.

On 4/5/2024 at 6:24 PM, Badsamaritan said:

But, am I the only one who never believed Carole's apology back then? I felt like she was putting on an act because it was expected but she was actually an asshole. So I wasn't surprised by this behavior like others were because this feels like the real Carole to me.

No, you're not the only one.  I didn't really buy it either.

On 4/5/2024 at 8:41 PM, Mabinogia said:

But Hetty was my MVP this ep. I know that in life she was a terrible person, and that her stories are horrific, but there is just something in the way Rebecca delivers her lines, like the scraping footman off your trunk right away, in such a matter of fact manner that delights me.

That and the rat story.  Good thing it was a sausage factory. 😲

 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 4/6/2024 at 3:36 PM, Annber03 said:

But yeah, I think there's no one lone reason they're all still here, I think it's a combination of things. The unfinished business from when they were alive, the fact their own actions all played a role in their untimely deaths and their struggle to take responsibility for that, the not-so-great things they did/believed/said when alive that they've yet to fully atone for and acknowledge...

We still don't know how Sasappis died.

[iMonrey]

12 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

I wouldn't compare Carol and Elias. Carol was a loving mother and grandmother.

I didn't suggest Carol might "go down" because she's as bad as Elias. I suggested she might develop the hots for him and follow him down there, if he ever returns for any reason. 

Also? I don't think we ever saw enough of Carol's life to judge how good a mother and grandmother she was. She was a terrible wife. Yes, she was at least present for her daughter and grandson, but let's not start handing out gold stars just yet. Even in death she has already cheated on Pete with Thor, after letting Pete think they were back together. I think she's kind of horrible.

[kathyk2]

4 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

We still don't know how Sasappis died.

I don't think the ghosts caused their deaths. Thorfinn died from a lightning strike. Flower was mauled by a bear and Pete was killed in a freak accident. Alberta and Trevor were murdered. Isaac died of dysentery. I think they haven't moved on because they have formed a family and don't really want to leave. 

[Annber03]

They didn't cause their deaths, per se, but their actions did inadvertently lead to them. Thor wore a metal helmet on a day when there was lightning in the area. Alberta drank from a random bottle that someone she didn't know left at her door. Isaac didn't wash his hands, thus exposing him to the various illnesses rampant in the area. Pete handed out the bows and arrows before the safety instruction part of his archery lesson. And so on. They made some choices that more easily put them at risk of a deadly fate. 

6 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

We still don't know how Sasappis died.

Or Hetty. They're the only ones of the main ghosts whose deaths are still a mystery. 

[Chit Chat]

10 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

We still don't know how Sasappis died.

Although we don't know how he died, didn't he say that he died on the way to where he was going to do his first storytelling?  I'm curious as to how his death occurred, as he doesn't appear to have any obvious injuries. 

 

[kathyk2]

Thorfin couldn't know that electricity was a conductor. Isaac didn't realize that hand washing was important. Pete was the only one who should have known better.

[Annber03]

Drinking from a random bottle isn't a wise idea, either. Nor is knocking back a bunch of drugs and mixing them with alcohol, which Trevor did the night he died. And one of Isaac's soldiers even made a point of teling him that washing one's hands prevented dysentery and he brushed it off. 

Even then, though, I'm not saying they all actively knew their actions would lead to their deaths and did them anyway, because indeed, some of them couldn't have known the risks. I'm just saying that their actions did play a role in hastening their deaths, is all, and I think with hindsight and what they've learned since then, that might be something they think about from time to time and acknowledge. 

1 hour ago, Chit Chat said:

Although we don't know how he died, didn't he say that he died on the way to where he was going to do his first storytelling?  I'm curious as to how his death occurred, as he doesn't appear to have any obvious injuries. 

 

He said he died before he got the chance to tell his story, yeah. Given his constant desire to sit in that warm shaft of sunlight, and his love of food, I wonder if his death had something to do with the elements or some kind of food shortage or something of that sort. 

[Skooma]

8 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

I don't think the ghosts caused their deaths. Thorfinn died from a lightning strike. Flower was mauled by a bear and Pete was killed in a freak accident. Alberta and Trevor were murdered. Isaac died of dysentery. I think they haven't moved on because they have formed a family and don't really want to leave. 

Trevor wasn't murdered.  He overdosed on drugs and alcohol.  So he is one character that did cause his own death.

There is no philosophic reason why these people are ghosts other than it is a TV show and the writers created them as such. 

It was the same on the original British show too.  It's a sitcom and writers try to  write interesting and funny characters for it.  That and that alone is why these people are ghosts.

Edited April 9 by Skooma

[iMonrey]

9 hours ago, Skooma said:

There is no philosophic reason why these people are ghosts other than it is a TV show and the writers created them as such. 

There is one thing they all have in common, which is that none of them died from natural causes. Unless you consider dysentery a natural cause, in which case you could say none of them died from old age. Their lives were all cut short for one reason or another. 

[proserpina65]

17 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Isaac didn't wash his hands, thus exposing him to the various illnesses rampant in the area.

To be fair, not everyone did at the time he lived.  The link between hand washing and disease prevention wasn't well known until the middle of the 19th century.

11 hours ago, Annber03 said:

And one of Isaac's soldiers even made a point of teling him that washing one's hands prevented dysentery and he brushed it off. 

That was iffy, historically speaking.

3 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Unless you consider dysentery a natural cause

Definitely a natural cause.

[possibilities]

Let's not forget Flower, who was high and antagonized a bear (though she didn't mean to upset it, it was not good judgment or sober common sense to do what she did). Her drug use can be blamed for her death, if Trevor's is being blamed for his.

The show might or might not have a "show bible" where they understand the theory behind why people do or don't get stuck as ghosts. Some shows make up rules when world-building, and others don't. I don't think we can say for sure what the writers have in mind or don't, at this point.

 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

There is one thing they all have in common, which is that none of them died from natural causes. Unless you consider dysentery a natural cause, in which case you could say none of them died from old age. Their lives were all cut short for one reason or another. 

Heh, and now I really want them to introduce a ghost (maybe one Sam will encounter away from the Woodstone) who is played by some wonderful old comedian, being a ghost who did die of old age. 😉 

[kathyk2]

11 hours ago, Skooma said:

Trevor wasn't murdered.  He overdosed on drugs and alcohol.  So he is one character that did cause his own death.

There is no philosophic reason why these people are ghosts other than it is a TV show and the writers created them as such. 

It was the same on the original British show too.  It's a sitcom and writers try to  write interesting and funny characters for it.  That and that alone is why these people are ghosts.

Trevor's friends called their families instead of an ambulance. It's possible he might have lived if he had received proper medical care at least his body wouldn't have ended up at the bottom of a lake.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

There is one thing they all have in common, which is that none of them died from natural causes. Unless you consider dysentery a natural cause, in which case you could say none of them died from old age. Their lives were all cut short for one reason or another. 

The ghosts were waiting to see if Sam's aunt (prior owner of the home) who died of old age would become a ghost or not.  So they haven't made a connection between untimely death and becoming a ghost.  I wonder if any of the ghosts whom we have not seen and who were eventually sucked off had died of old age.

[chaifan]

On 4/8/2024 at 6:17 PM, Annber03 said:

Pete handed out the bows and arrows before the safety instruction part of his archery lesson. And so on. They made some choices that more easily put them at risk of a deadly fate. 

Not to quibble, but when dealing with pre-teen/early teenagers, I doubt the safety lesson would have mattered much.  If you're a kid that is inclined to just point an arrow at someone, I doubt a safety lesson would have prevented Pete's death.

I was in girl scouts in the late 70's, early 80's, and we did both archery and shot 22 caliber rifles.  I was a good shot with both.  In junior high school, my (one and only) crowning moment in gym class was when the boys and girls classes were joined for archery.  I was first in my line, the rest of the first archers were all boys, and I hit a dead center bullseye with my first arrow. 

Back to the main point... I don't think there's an overriding theme to the ghosts' deaths of somehow being the cause of their own demise.  You could make the argument of just about anyone's death - they got in their car before getting in an accident, they walked out the front door before they got hit by a bus, they chose to go to the concert where they were trampled to death, they smoked/ate/drank whatever, etc. etc. etc.  I think the writers just came up with interesting, and era-appropriate deaths for each character.

Back to the episode...  how did Jay not notice a sudden influx of 10,000 point club members??? 

 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, chaifan said:

Back to the episode...  how did Jay not notice a sudden influx of 10,000 point club members??? 

I'm guessing he was too distracted with the new restaurant stuff. 
But credit goes to the writers for Jay's lines that seem to indicate he was on autopilot with regards to the rewards points:

• [JAY] Hey, Jeremy, can I interest you in signing up for our Woodstone Rewards program?
• Oh, I'm actually already a member.
• [JAY] Are you sure? Because it's free to join and...
  Oh. Wait a minute. I don't have to do that.

Jay was apparently used to offering the Rewards Program to guests and having them say no, likely (IMO) because they didn't want to get on a mailing list, and, sadly, because they weren't likely to return.

[mojito]

On 4/9/2024 at 4:48 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I wonder if any of the ghosts whom we have not seen and who were eventually sucked off had died of old age.

One day, Thor and Sass will tell tales of previous ghosts.

Good on Thor, taking one for the team as he did. An honorable sacrifice.

[Skooma]

On 4/9/2024 at 1:49 PM, kathyk2 said:

Trevor's friends called their families instead of an ambulance. It's possible he might have lived if he had received proper medical care at least his body wouldn't have ended up at the bottom of a lake.

Trevor had already died of the heart attack brought on by his OD-ing when his friends panic-called their daddys. 

And hey the fish in the pond appreciated his body.  Re-cycling, you know.  Also saved his family funeral expenses.

[possibilities]

Note to self:

When Skooma dies, do not attempt resuscitation, and toss the body in a lake. 

 

[Skooma]

10 hours ago, possibilities said:

Note to self:

When Skooma dies, do not attempt resuscitation, and toss the body in a lake. 

 

Pond.  I told my friends to give me a Viking funeral on the pond and let the fire sink the old canoe.  Done and done.  👍

[Sarahsmile416]

On 4/5/2024 at 2:15 AM, sweetandsour said:

Sam and Jay, you just got Jammed!

Congratulations, Jay, those were some real Leslie Knope moves you pulled to get rid of Jon Glaser.

Carol's adjustment period seems to be focused only on being dead, being a ghost, and dwelling in the B&B now.  I don't think I've heard her say anything about her life - Jerry, Laura, little Pete, missing donut holes, nothing.  So how is she going to get her outstanding closure so she gets sucked off?  No way she is a permanent ghost.  I don't think they'll bring this storyline back, but I wouldn't mind if Elias can come back from hell and took her with him this time.  Maybe they'll write her need for closure on something that finally humanizes her and then we can bid adieu.

Kind of a double Jammed situation since he got Jammed himself by Trevor (and Sam and Jay).

I love that his name was Jeremy in this too lol 

[Skooma]

On 4/9/2024 at 1:49 PM, kathyk2 said:

Trevor's friends called their families instead of an ambulance. It's possible he might have lived if he had received proper medical care at least his body wouldn't have ended up at the bottom of a lake.

Trevor was dead as soon as he hit the floor.  Issac was immediately into his "welcome to our ghost family" speech right away.

[eel2178]

On 4/9/2024 at 11:49 AM, kathyk2 said:

Trevor's friends called their families instead of an ambulance. It's possible he might have lived if he had received proper medical care at least his body wouldn't have ended up at the bottom of a lake.

On 4/11/2024 at 10:58 AM, Skooma said:

Trevor had already died of the heart attack brought on by his OD-ing when his friends panic-called their daddys. 

On 4/11/2024 at 11:24 AM, possibilities said:

Note to self:

When Skooma dies, do not attempt resuscitation, and toss the body in a lake. 

 

 

 

You stimulated my pet peeve about TV writing and moved the needle on the meter well past full tilt. Feel free to skip the rest of my post if you don't want to hear a Realism Rant that I have posted many times in many different comment sections and most likely somewhere else on this board previously as well.

Laymen CPR is "successful" in fewer than 10% of resuscitation attempts. (The definition of successful will vary depending on who you are talking to; if your idea of success is returning to the same state of health you were in before your alleged heart attack, that number is much lower taking into account that many of those real resuscitations will provide a beating heart with anywhere from mild to severe brain damage from the lack of oxygen).

TV land resuscitations have a success rate of more than 75% depending on the show you're watching and usually have very few residual effects. Unfortunately, laymen see these shows and think this is way it is supposed to happen in real life and blame the personnel (laymen or professional) who attempted the resuscitation when that isn't the outcome.

Furthermore, TV CPR has taught laymen to immediately jump into chest compressions on anyone who collapses without checking first for breathing or a pulse. A large portion of those in the 10% who were "resuscitated" by CPR weren't in cardiac arrest to begin with, so those who actually do survive an actual cardiac arrest with laymen CPR is much lower than that 10%. Most likely, the victim survived despite you, not because of you, but that won't stop the news stations from running the story over and over again about the layman hero who resuscitated someone who didn't need resuscitation.

Trevor's heart is supposed to have "exploded' (most likely a rupture in the wall of the left ventricle), so no resuscitation attempts, professional or laymen, were going to restore a functional heartbeat. No heartbeat, no blood circulation and no oxygen getting to his brain. As someone else said above: he was dead before he hit the floor, and nothing was going to change that.

For the abridged version of my comment: a real life resuscitation doesn't happen anything like the way you see it on TV. Understand the line between reality and fiction and don't expect miracles.