S10.E03: Fathers and Sons [LeVar Burton & Wes Studi]

[shapeshifter]

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Actors LeVar Burton and Wes Studi, two men who grew up without their fathers, explore their family histories.

Episode premiere on PBS: 8 p.m. ET, Tuesday, January 16, 2024
Episode preview and links to featured guests' backgrounds: pbs.org/weta/finding-your-roots/watch/episodes/fathers-and-sons

[sempervivum]

Levar was super-dramatic and emotive, while Wes was very measured and stoic, so some contrast in responses at least.

As usual, Levar wanted to attribute all his good characteristics (pro-education, I guess?) to the 2 ancestors who were school superintendents, while ignoring the wife-hopping, the one who enlisted in the Confederate army, and the one who owned slaves. Also, I hate his weird little pointy beard.

It surpised me that Wes said he hadn't heard of the Trail of Tears until he was in high school.

[Dirge]

6 minutes ago, sempervivum said:

Also, I hate his weird little pointy beard.

I found it very distracting! 

This episode seemed to me to be very heavy on the "How does it make you feel?" questions. Maybe because they didn't find a lot of relatives to talk about. 

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, sempervivum said:

Levar was super-dramatic and emotive, while Wes was very measured and stoic, so some contrast in responses at least.

As usual, Levar wanted to attribute all his good characteristics (pro-education, I guess?) to the 2 ancestors who were school superintendents, while ignoring the wife-hopping, the one who enlisted in the Confederate army, and the one who owned slaves. Also, I hate his weird little pointy beard.

It surpised me that Wes said he hadn't heard of the Trail of Tears until he was in high school.

I agree.  Though the flirty ancestor did make me laugh.  

[sempervivum]

6 hours ago, PRgal said:

I agree.  Though the flirty ancestor did make me laugh. 

You mean the 'gay Lothario'!

[BusyOctober]

I admire both of these guests for their work in the entertainment world, but man they were both extraordinarily unentertaining on this show.  

Levar seemed SHOCKED that he had a white ancestor.  Really?  After all we know about the travesty of slavery and masters’ raping female slaves? Did he not read or watch “Roots”?  Most of Dr. Gates Black guests have discovered a white 3x great grandad in the family tree, so I find his despair disingenuous.

Wes was very quiet and the long silences made me feel like the news about his birth father was just too much for him to handle.  

[PRgal]

9 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

I admire both of these guests for their work in the entertainment world, but man they were both extraordinarily unentertaining on this show.  

Levar seemed SHOCKED that he had a white ancestor.  Really?  After all we know about the travesty of slavery and masters’ raping female slaves? Did he not read or watch “Roots”?  Most of Dr. Gates Black guests have discovered a white 3x great grandad in the family tree, so I find his despair disingenuous.

Wes was very quiet and the long silences made me feel like the news about his birth father was just too much for him to handle.  

Well, he was IN Roots…..I think it’s more of a Levar thing.  

[Yeah No]

11 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

Levar seemed SHOCKED that he had a white ancestor.  Really?  After all we know about the travesty of slavery and masters’ raping female slaves? Did he not read or watch “Roots”?  Most of Dr. Gates Black guests have discovered a white 3x great grandad in the family tree, so I find his despair disingenuous.

He WAS "Roots", having played Kunta Kinte in the original series.  I think part of the disingenuous feeling we got might have been because he already knew some of this stuff and he was feigning shock and surprise in those cases.  I find it hard to believe that Mr. "Roots" himself wouldn't have already done some research on his background.  I believe that he was surprised to hear about the public achievements of those two ancestors of his.  He said it completely changed his view of himself and that reaction seemed genuine.  I have a feeling he already knew about the "gay lothario" and maybe even the confederate soldier based on previous research (and some of that stuff tends to be passed down by relatives) but he didn't know about the significant public achievements of the school superintendents so maybe that's one reason why his reaction was so pronounced on the achievements.  I feel sorry for him that he might have gone through most of his life thinking he came from a line of sellouts and playboys on his father's side and felt ashamed of it.

20 hours ago, sempervivum said:

Also, I hate his weird little pointy beard.

Yeah, honestly it was so unflattering that he didn't even look like himself.  I have always loved Levar going way back to "Roots" and on "Star Trek: Next Generation", but this episode didn't put him in his best light in a few ways, in my opinion.

[Mermaid Under]

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Levar was super-dramatic and emotive, while Wes was very measured and stoic, so some contrast in responses at least.

This was mainly what  I noticed, because the rest of the episode was, as someone else said, unentertaining. 

I was trying to find a nicer word for inarticulate, but Wes hardly seemed able to put together a sentence, where as Levar seemed to to be reciting poetry the entire episode.

Three questions:

Does this show (or Gates if it is his decision) have any consistent policy for telling a celebrity ahead of time if when DNA tests reveal more than they may have bargained for?  I can't imagine Gates was cold enough to  present Studi with information that "one of these two men might be your father, but we can't figure out which one" without some warning.

Where did the name Studi come from?  From what little they showed of his family tree, it didn't seem to be his mother's name.

Did anyone get a screen shot of the DNA profiles?  Both of them seemed far more colorful than any I've seem previously.

 

 

Edited January 18 by Mermaid Under

[iMonrey]

9 minutes ago, Mermaid Under said:

Where did the name Studi come from?  From what little they showed of his family tree, it didn't seem to be his mother's name.

I wondered that too. Is it an indigenous custom to give a child their own distinctive second name rather than a family surname? 

15 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

Wes was very quiet and the long silences made me feel like the news about his birth father was just too much for him to handle.  

It must be very frustrating because it raises more questions, not knowing which of the two men were his father and what their relationship was with his mother. 

[sempervivum]

25 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

It must be very frustrating because it raises more questions, not knowing which of the two men were his father and what their relationship was with his mother. 

But he grew up with nothing but a single mother, so you'd think at least narrowing the dad down to one of two brothers would give some enlightenment. As far as the kind of relationship they had, clearly it didn't last long. The fact that mom apparently didn't talk about dad would point to a not-good relationship, no?

I think genealogy can only do some basic 'connect the dots' work; the rest is always going to be guessing or hoping. 

[shapeshifter]

18 hours ago, Mermaid Under said:

Did anyone get a screen shot of the DNA profiles?  Both of them seemed far more colorful than any I've seem previously.

 

At about 18:30 (pbs.org/weta/finding-your-roots/watch/episodes/fathers-and-sons), HLG Jr. acknowledges that the relationship between LeVar Burton’s great-great grandfather and great-great grandmother (parents of LeVar’s “Granny”) is just as likely to have been violent as romantic; it is not known: 

• “They could’ve been in love. It could’ve been something terrible. We don’t know.”

I appreciate that this is being included rather than hidden; it might lead to some Truth and Reconciliation.
But I also supposed the inclusion of references to the possibility of one ancestor raping another is up to the subject, and I recognize that it could open up members of the subject's family to ridicule, especially in our time of social media.
LeVar said something about the reveal of his ancestors having fought for the Confederacy might provide for useful teaching moments.
He has devoted a lot of his life to education.

In contrast, we mostly saw Wes Studi's silent reactions. 
It will be interesting to see if he has something to say publicly after he's had time to consider the results and maybe share and discuss them with others.

I barely noticed LeVar's beard.

Edited January 19 by shapeshifter

[blueray]

On 1/17/2024 at 12:10 PM, sempervivum said:

It surpised me that Wes said he hadn't heard of the Trail of Tears until he was in high school.

This surprised me too as I would think he'd hear about it from his family. But I guess it was something they didn't talk about.

I really enjoyed this episode and the two guests.

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I wondered that too. Is it an indigenous custom to give a child their own distinctive second name rather than a family surname? 

It must be very frustrating because it raises more questions, not knowing which of the two men were his father and what their relationship was with his mother. 

And if either had kids. Because then they'd be related to him.

[auntjess]

Just saw this article on LeVar Burton's reaction to his ancestors.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/levar-burton-discovers-he-s-descended-from-confederate-soldier-there-s-some-conflict-roiling-inside-of-me/ar-AA1n9ALl?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=4358e503f9394071b2a2beb2297c21d1&ei=30

[pezgirl7]

On 1/17/2024 at 12:54 PM, PRgal said:

I agree.  Though the flirty ancestor did make me laugh.  

When they showed the census with his third wife, Levar read that his wife was 44, but I thought it clearly said 24. It bothered me so much that I looked up the census and it was transcribed as 24.  Which means he was in his 40s when he got a 14/15 year old pregnant. I know it was different times back then, but it kinda irked me. It’s possible the show found other records that prove that she was 44 and that the 1910 census had her age wrong. 

I don’t think Wes is inarticulate, per se, just very quiet and reserved. Although some of the long pauses were a bit uncomfortable. He was clearly processing the new information.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, pezgirl7 said:

I don’t think Wes is inarticulate, per se, just very quiet and reserved. Although some of the long pauses were a bit uncomfortable. He was clearly processing the new information.

Those long pauses are also an editorial choice.

[PRgal]

18 hours ago, blueray said:

This surprised me too as I would think he'd hear about it from his family. But I guess it was something they didn't talk about.

I really enjoyed this episode and the two guests.

And if either had kids. Because then they'd be related to him.

LeVar has two kids, according to Wikipedia.  His daughter is an actress (though I've never heard of her).

[meep.meep]

On 1/18/2024 at 8:42 AM, Mermaid Under said:

Where did the name Studi come from?  From what little they showed of his family tree, it didn't seem to be his mother's name.

He is an actor, it may be a stage name.

I was surprised that they were able to do geneological tracing of his Cherokee ancestors, especially back before census records of them.  Census, church records, and ship manifests seem to be the bread and butter of this analysis and his ancestors wouldn't have shown up in any of them.

[IvySpice]

There is no possible way LeVar was actually surprised to have white ancestry. Naming a specific Confederate soldier is a different ball of wax, emotionally. But come on. White ancestors are damn close to universal for African-Americans.

You have to wonder if rape (or commercial sex) was part of the story for Wes Studi's mom, too. She goes to the length of naming some other guy (who knows he's not the dad) to throw her kid off the scent. And none of her relatives know who the real dad is, either? That doesn't suggest a fling. There's something shameful there.

[shapeshifter]

11 minutes ago, IvySpice said:

She goes to the length of naming some other guy (who knows he's not the dad)

Weren't there laws that said a husband was the legal father of his wife's child born during the marriage? 

[IvySpice]

 

43 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Weren't there laws that said a husband was the legal father of his wife's child born during the marriage? 

There still are. But I'm sure the show would have mentioned it if the father candidate had been married to Wes's mom.

[blueray]

6 hours ago, PRgal said:

LeVar has two kids, according to Wikipedia.  His daughter is an actress (though I've never heard of her).

I was actually asking about if either of the questionable fathers had kids. Then Wes would have extended family.

[Mermaid Under]

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I was actually asking about if either of the questionable fathers had kids. Then Wes would have extended family.

Given how this show has operated in the past (hunting down and testing potential offspring), I would have to say there were no kids, or more likely in my mind, they refused to cooperate.  The weird pictures that they used for Studi's potential fathers were public domain.  One  looked like a public service ID picture, the other from a published newspaper obituary. The family obviously didn't provide them.

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I don’t think Wes is inarticulate, per se, just very quiet and reserved. Although some of the long pauses were a bit uncomfortable. He was clearly processing the new information.

If this information was a complete shock to him (and I'm not sure that it was) it brings me back to my question about how much celebrity guests are told before they appear.  They made a big deal, for example, about calling LL Cool J and telling him his mother was adopted before his episode was filmed.  But for Julia Roberts, George R.R. Martin and others it was just "ha, ha, guess what, your grandparents screwed around".  There seems to be an inconsistency in how they handle DNA surprises.

Edited January 20 by Mermaid Under

[pasdetrois]

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I don’t think Wes is inarticulate, per se, just very quiet and reserved.

Years ago I met him at events in Santa Fe, and we also ran into him running errands as well. He chatted with my friend who was a member of the American Indian Movement. At all occasions he was quiet yet friendly, quite dignified. He may have been resisting Gates' efforts to make him emote-on-demand.

As we all know, documenting Indians' forced removal from the Southeast to the West was not a priority - it was such a difficult effort that even some of the accompanying soldiers struggled. The Cherokee were removed over an extremely bitter winter, and much of their travel was over mountains. That's why they had relatively more loss of life.

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Is it an indigenous custom to give a child their own distinctive second name rather than a family surname?

I've never encountered this, but one never knows. Between the boarding schools, forced removals, and assimilation to White ways, many of their traditional names were lost to history. Or White names were forced onto them, or they married/partnered with the colonizers. Studi referred to being married to a settler, another name for colonizers and their descendants.

Wikipedia says he is the son of a ranch hand named Andy Studie, but this information may be incorrect or has been discovered since the show was produced.

The long pauses are very common in modern Native American communication styles. Although there are exceptions, they do not feel the need to fill dead air with talk, and they often are thinking before speaking. When I first began working with tribes, I was counseled to listen more and talk less, and not be uncomfortable with silence during conversation. To me, Studi was processing his thoughts and making a decision not to speak unless he knew what he wanted to say.

Edited January 20 by pasdetrois

[ProudMary]

In my opinion, from watching the show and from listening to what LeVar said, the reason for his shock at having a direct white ancestor was because, in his words, "it was so close." He actually knew and remembers his great-grandmother. To discover that she, herself was half-white was the shock. Had Dr. Gates informed him, hypothetically that his say, fourth great grandfather was a white man who owned the plantation that LeVar's enslaved ancestors lived and worked on, that probably wouldn't have been particularly shocking to him; but discovering that the "Granny" he knew as a child was fathered by a white man was certainly a shock.

I thought this episode was great.