S00.E163: The Giggle

[PurpleTentacle]

16 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

The Doylist and rather heartwarming explanation for the ramp is here, starting around 12 minutes:

I did see that after my post. But thank you. It was indeed very sweet. The whole behind the scenes was.

On the other hand, we always have to remember that Russel lies his ass off in order not to spoil things. Just watch what he said about the Meep before the episode aired. Here I could see both being true, a fan talking to him, but him mainly doing it, so he could actually get the UNIT-scientist into the Tardis.

8 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Not entirely sure how I feel about the Bi-Generation. It was an interesting twist, and frankly I'd be fine if this is how future regenerations go (leaving the doors open for older actors to return without having to make "timey-wimey" excuses). I feel like if they were going to do this, though, 10/14 should have ended up with Rose (might it have been a little awkward with his other version, but they could always be a throuple).

Eh, he couldn't even tell her that he loved her, while his clone could. On the other hand he could tell Donna that she was his best friend. I think he is where he belongs, with family. He can find love again in a later regeneration.

10 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

These three Who specials were the most fun I've had watching this show in years.

Agreed.

[libgirl2]

3 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Eh, he couldn't even tell her that he loved her, while his clone could. On the other hand he could tell Donna that she was his best friend. I think he is where he belongs, with family. He can find love again in a later regeneration.

 

Interesting how 13 calling their companions "fam" yet I never felt that. Here is was natural. They are "fam". 

[libgirl2]

On 12/10/2023 at 12:36 AM, Kite said:

I've really enjoyed Tennant's Doctor, don't get me wrong. Just come onnnnn, not another splitting him into two thing, and this one gets to hang around in Gatwa's arena. Let it go, RTD!

I’m calling it here, the Master will come back as a dude and the onscreen unresolved sexual tension will be off the charts. Or rather, jilted lover tension, guess who. 

I have a friend who is a British author, He made mention that they are keeping 14 behind glass. If the show doesn't do well, break glass in case of emergency. I love David Tennant and is love 14's ending but I kind of feel he has a good point. If the show does poorly, is he going to keep coming back? Do you not have enough faith in Gatwa? Or not enough in Disney+? 

As for the Master, I always thought, and this goes back to Pertwee/Delgado,  there were homoerotic undertones to their relationship. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by libgirl2

[Eulipian 5k]

On 12/9/2023 at 11:59 PM, PurpleTentacle said:

Did any else think that Kate was going to slap the Doctor as she was approaching him? That look on her face!

Some people were disturbed and disappointed that Sylvia slapped the doctor in TSB, (Never mind the firefight in the living room), because, that, not the wars and ethnic cleansing on the news, sets a bad example for the kiddies...talk about missing The Forest in the Night for all the trees.

[jah1986]

I really enjoyed this episode. I was unspoiled so did not realize we would get so much of the new doctor. On a totally shallow level, is it wrong to envy Ncuti Gatwa's legs? I want legs like that.

I knew nothing about the Toymaker before this episode and I still don't know much, but NPH did his thing and I didn't hate it. I thought #2 special was a lot more scary than this one. So glad we got to see Kate again, and so relieved she didn't slap the doctor. Unpopular opinion ahead, but I was never crazy about Tennant's doctor. I'm a huge Matt Smith fan, but Donna is my all time favorite companion so I was satisfied with the way things ended for 10/14 & Donna. But I really don't ever have to see Tennant as the Doctor again.

I'm really looking forward to Gatwa's run as the Doctor. I can see he's one of those rare actors that has mad chemistry with everyone, so that should be fun to watch.

Bring on the Christmas Special!

[libgirl2]

16 minutes ago, jah1986 said:

I really enjoyed this episode. I was unspoiled so did not realize we would get so much of the new doctor. On a totally shallow level, is it wrong to envy Ncuti Gatwa's legs? I want legs like that.

I knew nothing about the Toymaker before this episode and I still don't know much, but NPH did his thing and I didn't hate it. I thought #2 special was a lot more scary than this one. So glad we got to see Kate again, and so relieved she didn't slap the doctor. Unpopular opinion ahead, but I was never crazy about Tennant's doctor. I'm a huge Matt Smith fan, but Donna is my all time favorite companion so I was satisfied with the way things ended for 10/14 & Donna. But I really don't ever have to see Tennant as the Doctor again.

I'm really looking forward to Gatwa's run as the Doctor. I can see he's one of those rare actors that has mad chemistry with everyone, so that should be fun to watch.

Bring on the Christmas Special!

We preferred the second one too, especially as we saw Wilf, but I enjoyed this last one a lot too since we saw the new Doctor and for an extended time. And I did like seeing Mel. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by libgirl2

[tennisgurl]

Instead of calling this a cop out, i think we should call it a Christmas miracle. The whole bigeneration thing is totally random but I cant even be mad about it because I'm so happy that 14 got a happy ending, finally getting to lay down his burdens and the burdens of the other Doctors, and 15 gets to go off and have adventures. I never thought that they would pull something where the Doctor got to just chill with Donna and her family, I was all ready to tearfully watch Tennant go away again, so I am super happy about this. Quirky uncle is a role that the Doctor fills wonderfully. 

NPH was as fun of a villain as I hoped he would be, I love his ridiculously over the top German accent and constant breaking into performance numbers. Doctor Who baddies do love their musical numbers don't they? He did a great job at being over the top while also being creepy, especially with the people puppets. Donna is made of much stronger stuff than me, because if I saw that creepy ass doll coming at me I would have "noped" out so hard I would have broken a door slamming it shut. 

The first imagine ever televised was, in fact, a dummy head named Stooky Bill in 1925. And yes, he is creepy as fuck. 

It feels like we are heading towards a UNIT spin-off with Mel, Kate, and Shirley, which I could very much get behind. I love seeing so much of Mel, and she looked amazing at the end in that dress. 

I really like the new Doctor so far, he seems so fun and carefree, being a fresh start for this line of Doctors, I am really excited to really get to know him soon!

Edited December 11, 2023 by tennisgurl

[DoctorAtomic]

I'd like the Master to be someone new just because Fifteen is new. 

[libgirl2]

44 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I'd like the Master to be someone new just because Fifteen is new. 

I'm sure that will be the case. 

[Starchild]

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

It feels like we are heading towards a UNIT spin-off with Mel, Kate, and Shirley, which I could very much get behind.

And Donna. 120K a year plus 5 weeks vacation.

[madhacker]

10 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

It feels like we are heading towards a UNIT spin-off with Mel, Kate, and Shirley, which I could very much get behind. I love seeing so much of Mel, and she looked amazing at the end in that dress. 

 

3 hours ago, Starchild said:

And Donna. 120K a year plus 5 weeks vacation.

I'm totally for that, but with Martha and Captain Jack also joining. Also, Tennant should only be in a few episodes as in a consultant or a call in case of an extreme emergency.

[Starchild]

Only if he can get to the point of saying "well if it's that bad, the other Doctor will come handle it."

[tkc]

Toymaker: There's only one player I didn't dare face. The One Who Waits.

Fourteen: Who's that?

Toymaker: I saw it hiding -- and I ran. 

[ParadoxLost]

23 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I have a friend who is a British author, He made mention that they are keeping 14 behind glass. If the show doesn't do well, break glass in case of emergency. I love David Tennant and is love 14's ending but I kind of feel he has a good point. If the show does poorly, is he going to keep coming back? Do you not have enough faith in Gatwa? Or not enough in Disney+? 

That is probably true on their reasoning but it was also totally not necessary, because they already have the metacrisis Doctor that had a happy ending with Rose that they could bring back from an alternate reality if they need a Tennant ratings bump.  Which is frankly the reason I thought they did that too.  And as much as I liked Rose and Ten I thought that was a bad idea too.

I think they also set up a problem with the audience expecting guest appearances that will undermine the new Doctor.  

Doctor Who re-generates. Doctor Who has to go on without his companions.  That is the tragedy of the Doctor.  This show is not Doctor Who anymore.  It has devolved into leaning into worse impulses of bad fan fiction. 

These episodes were so, so stupid.

[Eulipian 5k]

4 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

These episodes were so, so stupid.

IKR? In 60 years we've never had a retired Doctor. why start now?"

Ans: In 600 years we've never had a retired Pope! Welcome to the 21st century!

These episodes were a palate cleanser,  as a prep for the next course

[Llywela]

Also worth noting that we have seen retired Time Lords hiding out on Earth before now, way back as far as the 70s. And the Doctor has taken extended timeouts before now as well, we are just usually told about them after the fact rather than up front. 

[JustHereForFood]

Also, the message that it is ok to take the time off to rest, heal (in real life we would even say regenerate), especially after prolonged stress is a good one.

I love the ending more and more each day.

[JustHereForFood]

One more thing I remembered. Before the episode, I expected that after the Doctor regenerates, if we get any more scenes with Donna and her family, it would be fun if Shaun said something like "Ok, now I might get jealous if you want to travel alone with him somewhere." With the 2 Doctors, there was an opportunity to show him relieved that the Doctor that Donna finds less attractive is the one who stays with them.

[tkc]

On 12/13/2023 at 7:49 AM, JustHereForFood said:

With the 2 Doctors, there was an opportunity to show him relieved that the Doctor that Donna finds less attractive is the one who stays with them.

Relieved? If I am remembering correctly, the Doctor that had 14’s face wanted to mate with Donna!  😄

Edited December 18, 2023 by tkc

[DanaK]

7-days number is 6.848 million viewers and 10th for the week, behind Strictly's 2 episodes and I'm a Celebrity's 7 episodes

[JustHereForFood]

6 hours ago, tkc said:

Relieved? If I am remembering correctly, the Doctor that had 14’s face wanted to mate with Donna!  😄

Hey, now he can be mates with both of them!

[rur]

9 hours ago, tkc said:

Relieved? If I am remembering correctly, the Doctor that had 14’s face wanted to mate with Donna!  😄

IIRC, I think he clarified that he wanted a mate, a friend, because Donna heard mate in a different sense.

[DoctorAtomic]

"Well, you're not mating with me, Sunshine!"
"Oh no. *A* mate!"

[angora]

I saw the special when it dropped on Disney+, but I didn't get a change to post about it earlier. Some stray thoughts:

• When it comes down to it, the Toymaker is *so weird.* He's canonically one of the most powerful entities in all of Who, and he spends the millennia forcing mortals to play twisted children's games? I like that the show delved into him a bit, with the whole, "Your good and bad mean nothing to me. There is only to win and to lose." NPH did a nice job--I liked his showdown with the Doctor in his realm, and between the hammy accents and the strong mix of absurdity and menace, I feel like NPH was flexing his Count Olaf muscles.
• I really liked that we saw Shirley crossing her legs in "The Star Beast," so it was great to see her transferring from her wheelchair to a workstation here. Fantastic casual representation of an ambulatory wheelchair user! And then they referenced it when Kate was affected by the Giggle, with her ableist remarks!
• I thought Mel's return was, pound for pound, one of the single *nicest* reunions we've gotten with a classic companion. Both she and the Doctor were so delighted to see each other, and even though they were both busy with the task at hand, I like that they found time to catch up a little, and that Mel was with the Doctor alongside Donna for the rebigeneration.
• The Fourteen-Donna scenes were spectacular, as usual. I loved Donna first trying to brush off the Doctor's fears that he wouldn't be able to save her and then saying, "Well, maybe I'll save you." I don't mind the bigeneration, and I'm so glad that 1) Fourteen didn't have to die after having only lived for a few days and 2) he's taking some time to rest and heal with his chosen family. That lunch scene near the end was so beautiful!
• Speaking of the bigeneration, I am so hyped for Fifteen! Ncuti was spectacular. He just *was* the Doctor straight out of the gate, even in his undies. At first, I was a bit confused that he felt so decidedly older than Fourteen, but after the "we're doing rehab out of order" line, I understood that he's coming from the *end* of Fourteen's life rather than just branching off from that moment on the rooftop. He was so tender and kind with Fourteen, and he had such a brilliant mix of joy and warmth. Can't wait to see more of him!

[Starchild]

So, the Master, who do we think picked up that tooth? I mean, there weren't very many people on that pad, and Kate would know every single one of them.

[John Potts]

Did anyone else get “The Wire” vibes off the whole television bit (the Doctor Who episode, not the US Series)? Not exactly an episode I'd look to remind people of, but fortunately it was handled better here. I also had the impression that the (Celestial) Toymaker was a rogue Time Lord, but I guess not.

5 days ago, everyone started believing they were always right. So it was the Toymaker (and not Al Gore!) that invented the internet? And even if everyone could access to the internet you’d still need a device to do so - the whole world isn't actually online, even if they have the potential to be.

OK, why did the Doctor leave before seeing whether taking out the satellite worked? He has a time machine! He doesn’t need to rush off half cocked.

Good to see UNIT’s response to a hostile is still “Five Rounds Rapid” – and still just as effective! And also good to see that Donna's first instinct is to head into danger, regardless of her own safety. But I wasn't happy with the "Bi-Generation" - I don't need to see the Doctor standing amid a pile of corpses, but Nine's "Everybody Lives!" was powerful because it was rare: now it seems "Nobody Dies!" would be more accurate.

On 12/9/2023 at 8:00 PM, Lantern7 said:

I like the new guy. It would’ve been nice if he had gotten a proper outfit, but I guess that’s what the Christmas episode is for.

I loved the fact he was running about with no trousers (pants) and just didn’t care! I like reminders that the Doctor only looks human, he doesn't have to act like a (modern Western) human. I guess the bi-Regeneration didn’t duplicate their clothes and they had to share them.