S05.E01: The Tragedy of the Commons; S05.E02: Trials and Tribulations

[AimingforYoko]

22 hours ago, possibilities said:

I wonder if Bisquick is paying to be name-checked. I frankly always think of them as biscuit mix, not pancakes. 

Parent company General Mills is based in the Twin Cities. That and The Jason Show were two nice local Easter Eggs.

[aghst]

I mean is Bisquik necessarily healthier than popping a couple of frozen waffles in the toaster -- I don't know if there is such a thing as frozen pancakes.?

It must be faster than making pancakes or waffles from scratch so presumably you wouldn't have to add eggs or any other ingredients than water?

Maybe Bisquik was featured because she's going to MacGuyver it at some point in the season.

 

[Irlandesa]

28 minutes ago, aghst said:

I don't know if there is such a thing as frozen pancakes.?

There is.  At least I've seen them at Trader Joe's.

As far as Bisquick, I'm from the midwest (MN adjacent) and my mom used to make pancakes from Bisquick all the time.  It does require eggs and milk. I don't know if she's representative of midwest moms but Bisquick might just be a midwest reference.

Or it's Chekhov's gun situation.

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Irlandesa

[Tatum]

14 hours ago, Pi237 said:

I’m just glad they made Dot clever, and not one of these 90lbs soaking wet/no muscle mass/but can fight guys twice her size with magic Hulk punches.

Good point! I hate it when a character "took a self defense course" and all the sudden is an expert street fighter able to take on 5 opponents at once  (or just magically turns out to be some kind of deadly accurate sharpshooter). And her means of fighting are pretty unconventional, and luck has been on her side a few times, but it is something that could feasibly happen.

7 hours ago, aghst said:

I mean is Bisquik necessarily healthier than popping a couple of frozen waffles in the toaster -- I don't know if there is such a thing as frozen pancakes.?

It must be faster than making pancakes or waffles from scratch so presumably you wouldn't have to add eggs or any other ingredients than water?

Maybe Bisquik was featured because she's going to MacGuyver it at some point in the season.

 

I get the impression Bisquick itself has some sort of meaning for the character-  I think it's like, therapeutic for her in some way. She looked panicked at the gas station, and then she saw the boxes and seemed to be able to focus and figure out what she needed to do. I actually thought all the Bisquick papers scattered at the station was some kind of message for her from the kidnapper, but then it was revealed he didn't know her so that couldn't be right. And then when she gets home, she immediately goes into the kitchen and starts mixing the pancakes, even though she has a lot of time before Scotty was due to wake. I think the brand itself and the act of mixing the pancakes is a source of comfort to her.

 

Her age is given as 30s- I wonder how much older than the son of the sheriff she is supposed to be. The actress is only a couple years older than the actor playing the son. He doesn't really seem to have an opinion on her at all, other than just doing his dad's bidding. But he likely would have been at least a teen when she ran away.

[Ottis]

I actually think Juno is miscast, as is her (newer) husband. Didn't buy for a moment her bumbling around stumbling on ways to fight off people. If she knows she is being hunted, she doesn't show the intelligence or the restraint needed to remain concealed (don't taze cops, or heck, remain for contentious school meetings). Her plans seem amateurish even though she knows she is likely to be in these situations at some point. Shoot, she apparently doesn't even live far from her vengeful ex. Is the show trying to say she wants to be found?

And then when she is found out, she starts setting traps ... with her kid ... who doesn't seem surprised or afraid at any of it?  It didn't appear her daughter had done it before, she was asking questions about how. But the "why" never comes up? 

And the (newer) husband just reminds me of Ed Grimley. While I like the actress playing the local cop, she comes across as someone who is trying really, really hard to play a Midwesterner. 

Also, why, when the two henchmen trapped her and one said she had to be alive but didn't need to have her teeth, is the next shot we see of her, unharmed, in the back of the car? Did I miss a scene? They just decided, after she pissed them off, "oh never mind?"

Some of all tha is probably my weariness of the Fargo format. Watching what appears to be hapless upper Midwesterners be threatened for mysterious reasons, and at least one of them then displaying surprising skills, is getting old. I'd like to see the cleverness that made me like the first two seasons so much. 

Also, as someone said upthread, the other cop at the gas station should be fired. he was awful in his lame response. 

The mother-in-law seems promising. And Hamm likely relishes being the bad guy, though so far he seems pretty run-of-the-mill. There must be thousands of men like him, tens of thousands. So we'll see. 

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Ottis

[peeayebee]

13 minutes ago, Ottis said:

I actually think Juno is miscast, as is her (newer) husband. Didn't buy for a moment her bumbling around stumbling on ways to fight off people. If she knows she is being hunted, she doesn't show the intelligence or the restraint needed to remain concealed (don't taze cops, or heck, remain for contentious school meetings). Her plans seem amateurish even though she knows she is likely to be in these situations at some point. Shoot, she apparently doesn't even live far from her vengeful ex. Is the show trying to say she wants to be found?

Ten years have gone by since she ran away from Roy, right? Although the threat of him is probably always in the back of her mind, she has also built a new life with a loving husband and daughter. She seems happy being a wife and mother.

Maybe she always carries a taser with her, but that doesn't mean she anticipated the school board meeting getting violent. But when it did, she tried to make her way out with Scotty. I didn't catch what the guy who confronted her said, but she was definitely in defensive mode. Tasing the cop was (obviously) a mistake, but she was desperate to get Scotty (and herself) out of harm's way and just reacted impulsively.

I'm having no trouble accepting her behavior, how she's written, and how she's acted. I'm sure we'll learn more about her history, e.g., how she came to be such a McGuyver. 

29 minutes ago, Ottis said:

And then when she is found out, she starts setting traps ... with her kid ... who doesn't seem surprised or afraid at any of it?  It didn't appear her daughter had done it before, she was asking questions about how. But the "why" never comes up? 

Looks like she and Scotty have a great relationship. Trusting and accepting. 

[Tatum]

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

Her plans seem amateurish even though she knows she is likely to be in these situations at some point. Shoot, she apparently doesn't even live far from her vengeful ex. Is the show trying to say she wants to be found?

I think that's supposed to be the point though- she is amateurish. While I think she would have done better to go a little farther than a state bordering her crazy ex, she was likely very limited in her means while trying to fly under the radar, and I would guess she was also pregnant, and needed a rich, connected patsy as soon as she could get one, hence why she only made it to one state away from him. And I don't think she's a trained fighter- she's someone who cobbled together a series of counter attacks, probably at least some of which came from actual cartoons.

 

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

Also, why, when the two henchmen trapped her and one said she had to be alive but didn't need to have her teeth, is the next shot we see of her, unharmed, in the back of the car? Did I miss a scene? They just decided, after she pissed them off, "oh never mind?"

THAT was stupid. Can't argue with that. My only guess is, the one in charge didn't want to risk killing her accidentally (and not getting paid) while knocking her around, but they certainly could have tied her up a lot more tightly and they definitely should have. For that matter, wearing those creepy masks was far more conspicuous and served no purpose- any potential witness was much more likely to notice creepy masks and call the cops.

 

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

e mother-in-law seems promising. And Hamm likely relishes being the bad guy, though so far he seems pretty run-of-the-mill. There must be thousands of men like him, tens of thousands. So we'll see. 

Agree, and he is so "big fish in a little pond"- step out of his little jurisdiction and he'd be schooled in an instant. Yet I suppose he insists he doesn't want  to go anywhere but his tiny little kingdom in ND.

[Tatum]

47 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I didn't catch what the guy who confronted her said, but she was definitely in defensive mode.

He said, no one is listening to me, while grabbing her arm. I don't know if he intended to cause her harm, but he did try and restrain her from leaving, which, even if he wasn't intending to hurt her, by holding her in place he easily could have put her in someone else's line of fire. I really don't blame her for panicking.

[tennisgurl]

This was a great start for a new season, especially after season four was such a disappointment. The whole cast is great, its fun seeing Richa Moorjani from Never Have I Ever and Lamorne Morris from New Girl in a show like this, Joe Keery is doing a great job at being a brutish lout, then you have Jennifer Jason Leigh and Jon Ham just hamming it up as the bad guys, but Juno is clearly going to be carrying the show. I can totally buy her as a cute suburban mom that can switch a switch to become the terminator, and while her accent is really over the top I think that's on purpose, considering she dropped the accent when she was threatening her mother in law. 

I wonder if Dot learned all of this ass kicking so that she could escape Roy or if she has even more of a past beyond him? I don't think she has an ulterior motive being with Wayne, I think that she really does want to put whatever happened in her past behind her and live a peaceful life as a wife and mother, its just that her creep of an ex husband found her and now she has to throw down. 

It really says something about Joe Keery's talent that I immediately loath Gator so much that I don't even look at him and think of my beloved Steve Harrington. Roy is going to be an interesting antagonist, he's a big fish in a very small pond who will be in for a rude awakening when larger forces than him come for his little kingdom, especially the hitman he went and pissed off. 

[aghst]

In the opening scene of S05.E01, you saw her eyes wide open processing the scene of the riot while clutching her daughter.  Then she makes her way slowly through and was going to pounce anyone who physically accosted them.

So her reactions are razor sharp.  She's not just being lucky.

And I don't know about this Fargo formula.  The  Kristin Dunst character and her husband were getting away with a lot of dumb luck, maybe even implausibly dumb luck.

Scandia Minnesota is about 8 hours by car from Stark County, ND.  I would guess if she went to LA, Roy would still try to get at her there if he found out that she was there.  Or AL or HA.

[Crashcourse]

I could like this season a lot more if there was another actress playing Dot.  I'd never seen Juno Temple in anything else, so I don't know how good of an actress she is.  All I know is, I'm already tired of her fluttering around like an annoying little bird with a fake Minnesota accent.   

Also, the husband and daughter don't seem to be hungry for those pancakes. 

[Ottis]

3 hours ago, Tatum said:

And I don't think she's a trained fighter- she's someone who cobbled together a series of counter attacks, probably at least some of which came from actual cartoons.

Definitely agree. I guess my issue is that if she had just run away 6 months ago, this might make sense. But it has been 10 years or more. She isn't surprised that people are coming after her, which indicates she assumed they one day would. And yet all of her defensive reactions and plans (such as they are) are like she never thought much about what to do.

I struggle with a character who, on the one hand seems to expect people to try to attack her, and on the other hand is still improvising 10 years later. If her defensive reactions had been excellent, i.e. great shot, hidden weapons in place already, etc., I could have bought that. OR if her reactions and plans were as poor as we have seen, newbie-like, but she somehow gets lucky every time it happens, I could probably accept that as a Fargo-like thing. But it is an inconsistent mix of each. YMMV.

 

 

 

 

[possibilities]

She only thought they might come after her when her name wound up in the database after being booked for tasing the cop. I think that she figured she had fallen off the radar enough (new name, etc) that she was safe, until that happened. 

I was actually stalked years ago and since then I've moved, and nobody has bothered me in more than 10 years and I don't think about it anymore. I used to have an unlisted phone number, and be super-paranoid about things. By now I just figure, if they were still interested, they would have already done something.

But if I had a stalker in law enforcement, I would definitely be concerned if I wound up in the police files, because that's an easy thing to monitor if you're in the police business. 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I'm trying to get past the fact that Dot was allowed to marry Senor Kia.  Lorraine would have been all over Dot's background and come to realize Dot had created a personal history that had nothing whatever to do with reality. 

Now, if it turns out that Lorraine has a past with Roy, we are in for a helluva ride.

Another Bisquick note - a scene that bugged was when Dot was preparing a big breakfast for  Scotty and going on and on about pancakes and how breakfast is super important.  That part was fine.  But then, in a matter of seconds, in comes Senor Kia and demands (nicely) to take her to school without having touched the feast Dot had all but finished creating.  Not a hint of a whisper of objection or resistance was heard.

[Tatum]

2 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I'm trying to get past the fact that Dot was allowed to marry Senor Kia.  Lorraine would have been all over Dot's background and come to realize Dot had created a personal history that had nothing whatever to do with reality. 

In her downtown office, JJL did exposit to her lawyer that she had a background check done on Dot that came back clear (clear as in nothing bad, there were school records and such).

Now, how Dot managed that we may never know. I am guessing she stole someone else's identity but even back in 2009 that wouldn't have been particularly easy to do, especially given that Mama probably really was invested in finding any skeletons.

[Crashcourse]

31 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

But then, in a matter of seconds, in comes Senor Kia and demands (nicely) to take her to school without having touched the feast Dot had all but finished creating.  Not a hint of a whisper of objection or resistance was heard.

And that's why I thought neither Senor Kia nor Scotty wanted to eat the pancakes.  I'll be curious to see if they eat them later, or if they don't, Dot throws a hissy fit.

[DMK]

34 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Another Bisquick note - a scene that bugged was when Dot was preparing a big breakfast for  Scotty and going on and on about pancakes and how breakfast is super important.  That part was fine.  But then, in a matter of seconds, in comes Senor Kia and demands (nicely) to take her to school without having touched the feast Dot had all but finished creating.  Not a hint of a whisper of objection or resistance was heard.

Because Dad offered to stop for donuts. That usually trumps any protests that a kid might offer. 

[Terrafamilia]

So the super-traditional sheriff has nipple piercings. That's...interesting. I know where I'd aim the taser.

I wondered how old the convenience store was when the clerk said there was no back exit. Not only would all deliveries of merchandise have to be through the front door but it would surely run afoul of fire codes. Would a setup like that get grandfathered in?

[Ottis]

14 hours ago, possibilities said:

She only thought they might come after her when her name wound up in the database after being booked for tasing the cop. I think that she figured she had fallen off the radar enough (new name, etc) that she was safe, until that happened. 

Still inconsistent, even if we accept that. Let's assume she actually never thought that a law enforcement official within driving distance wouldn't find her (not especially wise). So they find her, and what does she do? Based on her prior actions, she should run. She did before, and she has shown she doesn't put much thought into preparing to fight. But she stays, she creates Home Alone traps ... and she tries to hide it from her family?

Essentially her actions are saying that if she doesn't admit what is happening, then it isn't real. That's not the foundation of a good fighter. Yet she keeps winning.

It's only two eps in. Fargo tends to reveal its lead characters layer by layer. I hope we find out more that explains Dot's odd choices. I'm just saying that, for now, to me, she doesn't make much sense.

13 hours ago, Terrafamilia said:

So the super-traditional sheriff has nipple piercings. That's...interesting. I know where I'd aim the taser.

I always take little clues like that as a sign that the character isn't truly how they portray themselves (or even seem to believe they are). If the sheriff is a traditional guy with outdated views on women (likely some violent ones I expect but we haven't seen that yet), well, that's one thing. But if Mr. Traditional has nipple rings and is into S&M and, say, orgies, then who he believes he is is all a lie and he is something much worse. Which I suspect is the case.

[DMK]

16 hours ago, Terrafamilia said:

I wondered how old the convenience store was when the clerk said there was no back exit. Not only would all deliveries of merchandise have to be through the front door but it would surely run afoul of fire codes. Would a setup like that get grandfathered in?

I think a fire code doesn’t require a door, just an egress. The back bathroom window was clearly big enough for a person to fit through. 

[cdnalor]

On 11/27/2023 at 1:21 PM, Ottis said:

Also, why, when the two henchmen trapped her and one said she had to be alive but didn't need to have her teeth, is the next shot we see of her, unharmed, in the back of the car? Did I miss a scene? They just decided, after she pissed them off, "oh never mind?

After that threat, I assumed she stopped resisting and went along quietly.  After seeing the hammer, I know I would, at least for a while.  I like my teeth...

[EtheltoTillie]

On 11/24/2023 at 7:32 PM, DearEvette said:

My husband and I were laughing that Jennifer Jason Leigh didn't even attempt the accent, instead dusting off her Hudsucker Proxy tribute to Katherine Hepburn accent.

 

Silly me, for a minute I forgot that Hudsucker Proxy was a Coen Brothers movie. 

[LadyintheLoop]

Quote

I would assume Dot did not marry him willingly and spent years planning her escape route, but I am surprised she was ever given the resources to do so. 

Jury's still out. There may have been a moment in her young life when she thought that putting herself under a big strong man's protection was a good idea. I like the thought that she might have learned her survival skills from Roy.

Maybe she encourages Scotty's boyishness because she's come to see overt femininity as a display of weakness.

[rur]

We don't know enough about her life yet. It's possible she married Roy because she escaped a different situation. We have yet to learn how many different situations may have contributed to her resourcefulness.

[DMK]

I was thinking about it, and I actually don’t understand how Dot’s fingerprints even got to Roy’s attention. Yeah, he had them flagged but states have independent databases and they don’t talk to each other.

[Tatum]

10 minutes ago, DMK said:

I was thinking about it, and I actually don’t understand how Dot’s fingerprints even got to Roy’s attention. Yeah, he had them flagged but states have independent databases and they don’t talk to each other.

Is there even a way to "flag" them? Like, enter a fingerprint into a system and get an alert if there is ever a hit down the road? If so, I would think such system would be forever inundated with fingerprint flags. I would think as sheriff he might be able to match her fingerprints in MN with what he has on file in ND, but he would have to know she was arrested in the first place and compare the two. We are probably supposed to just suspend disbelief on this score that there is a fictional database this holds on this information in the Fargo Universe.

[Kel Varnsen]

So far this season has been pretty good. I am not sure it can possibly be as good as seasons 1 or 2 but hopefully it will be better than 3 & 4. I am also curious how it will connect to the other seasons. 

I also really hope we find out what caused the riot at the PTA meeting. 

My first exposure to the Coen Brothers was Lebowski so I laughed a lot at the suggestion that Dot kidnapped herself. And I did like how the ice scraper was used as a tourniquet.

On 11/22/2023 at 7:23 AM, The Wild Sow said:

Original movie, plus a great big heaping helping of "Home Alone"!

Are we sure this series isn't secretly a sequel to Home Alone. What with the traps here and season 2 actually having a McAllister in it.

On 11/23/2023 at 7:03 PM, SeanBug said:

Hamm almost doesn't even look like himself.  He was all handsome and cool on Morning Show but here he is just one evil SOB.  

One thing that always impressed me about Jon Hamm is how much he can change his character just by how he carries himself and his facial expressions. Even within Mad Men he was slick fancy confident Don Draper then he was like a when his hair was messy and he was slouching a bit. It was crazy how effective it was.

Also after Gator deleted the photo off the deputy's phone I really wanted her to just say she would call the station and get someone to email her another copy. I mean it's not like she took the mugshot on her phone.

Edited January 17 by Kel Varnsen