S02.E05: Trick or Treat

[T Summer]

 

starts at :50

Premieres  on Max : Thursday 7/13/23

12:00 AM PT

3:00 AM ET

writers: Samantha Irby, Michael Patrick King, Lucas Froehlich

A short promo for And Just Like That... season 2 episode 5 briefly depicts several key moments set to unfold in the upcoming episode. Viewers can expect the latest episode to focus extensively on Charlotte.

It seems like life has a lot of good things in store for her as she's received an offer letter from an art gallery. It'll be interesting to see how her story pans out. As of now, it remains unknown when or whether Adian would return to Carrie's life.

Apart from that, not much else is known about the plot of the new episode.

[NeenerNeener]

Hey, some Che scenes I didn't have to ff through! I'm keeping my fingers, toes, eyes, arms and legs crossed that this is the beginning of the end for that relationship.

Also, hi, Mariska Hargitay's hubby and sometime Persil laundry detergent ad spokesman. I kind of wish you were Carrie's new love interest for more than one episode.

[TakomaSnark]

Why would Charlotte and Harry be wearing costumes that referenced a show that went off the air five years ago?

Then again, MPK thinks 1970s-era Helen Gurley Brown is a fresh reference too.

ETA: Oh, I see. That was a long walk to take so Harry could wear a wig to the photoshoot.

Edited July 13, 2023 by TakomaSnark

[AKimbo]

Not gonna lie, I enjoyed this one. It felt pretty consistent in tone and the situation with George felt like old-school Carrie to me (like David Duchovny, Jon Bon Jovi, jazz guy, skater guy)--picking the wrong dude who looks promising and then things go quickly bad. 

I loved the meta-jokes with Chris Jackson/George Washington and thought Harry looked like he belonged in Wayne's World with the wig on. Funny. 

I loved seeing Daniel Cosgrove again (haven't noticed him in anything since 90210) and I thought the whole episode that Peter Hermann was Tom Everett Scott. Both very cute and obviously very wrong for Seema and Carrie. 

Miranda/Che--the focus group made me really sad for Che, but their relationship still feels so strained to me. And glad that Nya had a fun night but her character still needs more to do. 

There are obviously still issues with the writing, but I was able to enjoy this episode and did not feel like throwing things at the TV screen the whole time. 

Edited July 13, 2023 by AKimbo

[bluegirl147]

I wonder if they did a focus group last season before introducing Che.  Because I can totally see Cynthia Nixon dismissing any (valid) criticism.  Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of Che and Miranda.

2 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

Then again, MPK thinks 1970s-era Helen Gurley Brown is a fresh reference too.

I wonder how many viewers were asking Helen who? 

Sorry not sorry but I'm not having sex with a guy I just met who has to use a penis pump.  I have a cousin who met a man online and went to meet up with him and he had a penis pump. Which he of course had neglected to mention to her.  She called me while he was in the bathroom getting ready.    I would have left as soon as the words penis pump came out of his mouth. Now if it was a man I was already in a long term relationship and he needed to start using one that is different.  But for a new guy?  No.  

 

 

[TakomaSnark]

I took the focus group scene as MPK trying chastize the audience for rejecting Sara Ramirez/Che. Don't you feel bad? You should!!!

As many have said, the problem isn't the audience or the idea of a non-binary love interest on the show. The problem is the writing for said character. MPK, Ramirez and Nixon can't wrap their heads around that reality. 

Carrie Bradshaw, the woman who could not say the word vagina just a handful of episodes ago, referencing Helen Gurley Brown, who would have looked down her nose at a sex writer as prudish as Carrie Bradshaw. 

[TVForever]

Thank you Show, for Chris Jackson as George Washington! Perfect! 😊

[Mrsmaul2021]

41 minutes ago, TakomaSnark said:

I took the focus group scene as MPK trying chastize the audience for rejecting Sara Ramirez/Che. Don't you feel bad? You should!!!

As many have said, the problem isn't the audience or the idea of a non-binary love interest on the show. The problem is the writing for said character. MPK, Ramirez and Nixon can't wrap their heads around that reality. 

Carrie Bradshaw, the woman who could not say the word vagina just a handful of episodes ago, referencing Helen Gurley Brown, who would have looked down her nose at a sex writer as prudish as Carrie Bradshaw. 

 

 

OMG you think so? That is really distasteful if true.  To think I actually felt bad for Che. 

[bluegirl147]

2 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

I took the focus group scene as MPK trying chastize the audience for rejecting Sara Ramirez/Che. Don't you feel bad? You should!!!

I definitely think that focus group scene was written to specifically say something to viewers.  Did MPK (and most likely Cynthia Nixon) think it was some sort of wrap on the knuckles of viewers?  Probably.  It should be noted the gender queer person who spoke up in the focus group was criticizing the way Che was written in the pilot. Not Che themself.  And Miranda saying corporate Hollywood doesn't get it and Time Square tourists can't possibly understand is just a more polite way of saying if you don't like Che and Miranda with Che you are just a bigot. 

Edited July 13, 2023 by bluegirl147

[TakomaSnark]

8 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

It should be noted the gender queer person who spoke up in the focus group was criticizing the way Che was written in the pilot. Not Che themself.

It is also worth noting that the episode was co-written by Samantha Irby. From May in a Q&A with Vulture:

Quote

 

If you got the chance again to make a TV show about your life and you were guaranteed at least one season, would you do it? Because it sounds stressful as hell.
No, I would not. And let me tell you, when we started this process maybe seven years ago, the internet was different. Or I wasn’t aware of how much people talk about TV shows. But I did not think about America tearing apart my actual life.

Then a couple years ago, I worked on the first season of And Just Like That … and got to see the backlash firsthand. I was like, These are fictional characters, and I feel like I’m going to cry. I cannot have anyone talk about the actual me this way. Nobody reads books, so I’ve been spared, but everybody watches and talks about TV.

Listen, just Google Che Diaz. The response, the backlash.
Seriously. I hope Sara Ramirez didn’t take it personally, but like the vitriol for a person who does not exist was unbelievable. Let me just work on other people’s shows so that no one ever does this to the TV version of me.

While she differentiates between 'a person who does not exist' and 'the TV person of me,' it seems obvious to me the focus group scene is chiding the audience for making 'the real person' on whom the 'tv person' is based feel bad about who they are. It's MPK electing to deflect from 'bad writing' to 'bad audience' yet again.

Edited July 13, 2023 by TakomaSnark

[bluegirl147]

3 minutes ago, TakomaSnark said:

It is also worth noting that the episode was co-written by Samantha Irby. From May in a Q&A with Vulture:

I remember that interview.  The backlash whether they admit it or not is how poorly written the character and the storyline continues to be.

6 minutes ago, TakomaSnark said:

It's MPK electing to deflect from 'bad writing' to 'bad audience' yet again.

I'm actually surprised they didn't make a "Time Square tourist" criticize Che.

[luna1122again]

Haven't watched yet, just dropping by to note that Peter Hermann, aka George, besides being Mr. Mariska Hargitay and the guy from Younger, played the super handsome guy Charlotte is sort of set up with at the Jewish mixer when Harry briefly dumped her. But of course, she wanted Harry. 

[RedDelicious]

13 minutes ago, luna1122again said:

Haven't watched yet, just dropping by to note that Peter Hermann, aka George, besides being Mr. Mariska Hargitay and the guy from Younger, played the super handsome guy Charlotte is sort of set up with at the Jewish mixer when Harry briefly dumped her. But of course, she wanted Harry. 

"My David" 😄

[Night Cheese]

6 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

I took the focus group scene as MPK trying chastize the audience for rejecting Sara Ramirez/Che. Don't you feel bad? You should!!!

Absolutely. And right on cue, there's MPK Cynthia Nixon Miranda there to delegitimize any criticism. We're all the Times Square tourists that are either too simple to understand this or too bigoted to accept it. 😒

Edited July 13, 2023 by Night Cheese
Cue not queue

[thesupremediva1]

Peter Hermann is still fine as hell. It would have been a lot funnier if he HAD been "my David" - wonder if Charlotte would have remembered him!

Harry and Charlotte are the best part of this series. They're providing fun, family, continuity, AND sex. I wish we could focus more on them and less on poorly drawn ancillary characters or even Miranda who is still such an unrecognizable doormat.

I promised not to focus on Che-anda anymore, so I'll just say this: I agree with everyone who saw through MPK"s pathetic and transparent attempt to chastise and gaslight his audience yet again. It is NOT an accident that Nixon directed this ep. But yes, EVERYONE loves Tony Danza. For good reason. 

Now I know what happened to Matt Durning after Kelly Taylor broke off their engagement 23 years ago! Good thing Kelly chose Dylan. Poor Seema - get back with Prada guy please!

This ep had a lot of fun missing from previous ones. I liked the bar scene and the whole 'guy of the week' trope that we used to get during the early SATC days. It's amazing what this show can accomplish when it actually focuses on entertainment for a whole 3 minutes at a time. 

Edited July 13, 2023 by thesupremediva1

[SeanBug]

I will always remember Peter Hermann as the "Hair" guy from 30 Rock, who dated Liz and ended up being her 2nd or 3rd cousin.  "Why do you have a photo of my aunt?" 

The writers and MPK can't admit that the first season of this was just God awful, so it's the audience's fault?  Funny that the writers of Billions had a non-binary character who was very well written and believable and no one complained about them. 

Sorry but when everyone thinks you suck, it's not us, it's you. 

TBS, the last few episodes (except for last week and the dick pics) have been so much better than the whole of last season.  I thought Harry & Charlotte were adorable as The Americans. I LOL'd at Harry in that wig. 

Yeah The Americans has been off for a few years but a friend and I were going to go to a Halloween Party as Tobias and Lindsay Bluth, I even had a Shemale tank top!  It's okay to do characters from old tv shows. A friend's BF went as Prison Mike from The Office and did the whole schtick and won best costume!   Carrie didn't look like Helen Gurley Brown,  other than the Qiana and bow get up. 

Are young women watching this? There's a definite demo they go after, and I don't think it's  20 or 30 somethings, it's those of us who loved the old show.  I work with lots of older teens and 20 somethings and it's amazing/sad the stuff they are not aware of.  

[TakomaSnark]

25 minutes ago, SeanBug said:

Yeah The Americans has been off for a few years but a friend and I were going to go to a Halloween Party as Tobias and Lindsay Bluth, I even had a S****** tank top!  It's okay to do characters from old tv shows. A friend's BF went as Prison Mike from The Office and did the whole schtick and won best costume!   Carrie didn't look like Helen Gurley Brown,  other than the Qiana and bow get up. 

I'd argue that Arrested Development and The Office were iconic shows with iconic characters and moments that would stand the test of time. The Americans, while very good, never broke through the pop culture mainstream in anywhere near the same way. 

It's like the difference between a costume referencing The Mary Tyler Moore Show vs. The Days and Nights of Molly Dodd. 

[luna1122again]

9 minutes ago, TakomaSnark said:

I'd argue that Arrested Development and The Office were iconic shows with iconic characters and moments that would stand the test of time. The Americans, while very good, never broke through the pop culture mainstream in anywhere near the same way. 

It's like the difference between a costume referencing The Mary Tyler Moore Show vs. The Days and Nights of Molly Dodd. 

OMG, how I loved Molly Dodd. 

That is all. 

[TakomaSnark]

Quote

OMG, how I loved Molly Dodd. 

Always happy to meet a fellow Molly enthusiast!

[bluegirl147]

48 minutes ago, SeanBug said:

  I thought Harry & Charlotte were adorable as The Americans.

I watched the Americans but until I was told who Charlotte and Harry were supposed to be I had no clue.  I can kinda see it but I do wonder why they chose those particular characters. Is someone on the writing staff a fan of the show?

So I guess we are time jumping.  Last episode was Summer because the kids went to camp. This episode is October.  So at least a few months have passed and Steve is still living in his house.  Good for him.  

[tennisgurl]

One hell of a time jump, going from early summer to late October, what even is this timeline? I guess they wanted to show the cast in Halloween costumes, which is weird considering half of them didn't even bother to dress up, or put  no effort into their costumes. Why didn't Mirandas dress up? Is she that committed to not being any fun? Was Seema supposed to be dressed up? I had never heard of Helen Gurley Brown before this, so at least I learned something! As soon as Charlotte said she was Elizabeth from The Americans I totally saw it. 

This clearly makes me one of those loser Time Square Tourists but I was laughing my ass off when the focus group all hated Che-Che Binks. I know we're supposed to take this as a "shame on all of you!" from CN (the director of the episode) and the show for not liking Che, but I could only agree with that nonbinary person from Brooklyn who said that Che feels like a bunch of Boomer clichés about nonbinary people pieced together into what the writers think is cool. I very much resent that this whole stupid plot exists to try to make us feel like we're the problem, that we're all stupid bigots, and not the writers who created such a lame character and ruined Miranda. Everything with Miranda leaving their room super early and Che staying up super late just makes me continue to wonder what either of them see in each other. The brief scene between Miranda and Nya made me sad, its clear that the two of them were the original pairing and they make so much more sense. They have more chemistry, they have more in common, Nya is a million times more likable than Che, she would have made so much more sense as Miranda's love interest if we just HAD to have this story, but alas, CN gets what she wants and she wants Che. 

Beyond the continued cringe with Miranda and Che, I actually thought that this was a pretty fun episode. It actually reminded me of the original show, with the guys of the week that are done by the end of the episode because of some quirky issue. I was disappointed that Carrie's guy was a guy of the week and isn't lasting longer, I liked him and his quirky issue seemed like it wouldn't be a deal breaker. 

Charlotte's plot was my favorite, which has been the theme of the season. Of all the ladies, she has the stories that I would have most wanted to see from the ladies at this point in their lives, and they often make me actually laugh. I really liked seeing Rock and Charlotte bonding after they have had some issues, and Harry lurking around the set with that ridiculous Philip wig was hilarious. I also thought that Charlotte's outfit in the kitchen with Rock was ridiculously cute. 

[RedDelicious]

1 hour ago, SeanBug said:

Funny that the writers of Billions had a non-binary character who was very well written and believable and no one complained about them. 

Sort Of is an entire show based on non-binary/trans characters and its thoughtful, tragic, hilarious and heartwarming all at the same time. It's also on Max! I watched the first season four times and the second season twice. If MPK and Co. were going to introduce non-binary, mixed race, brown/black, trans or all of the above characters on AJLT, they could have taken some notes from Bilal Baig and Fab Filippo. 

43 minutes ago, TakomaSnark said:

The Days and Nights of Molly Dodd. 

I have this distinct recollection of Molly Dodd standing on a street corner and the narrator saying "Molly doesn't know it, but she's just conceived" and being like OH MY GOD. Am I remembering that correctly or am I losing my mind?

When I read about Che staying up late and playing video games all I could think of was Jules Kirby (nightmare) on High Society.  Kids, ask your parents.  Or watch this early aughts disaster on YouTube.

[bluegirl147]

20 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Miranda leaving their room super early

I know she said she had an early class so I guess she is back at school. But we also saw her making breakfast at Steve's house. So does she sneak back in so Brady doesn't know she isn't sleeping there?

21 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

but I could only agree with that nonbinary person from Brooklyn who said that Che feels like a bunch of Boomer clichés about nonbinary people pieced together into what the writers think is cool.

Even with Sara Ramirez who is non binary they still can't write a decent story for Che.

22 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Beyond the continued cringe with Miranda and Che,

Everything about them is cringe.  Now we have Che worrying about money.  Is Miranda going to offer to pay for Che's apartment? 

 

[Lethallyfab]

Miranda is waking up at the ass-crack of Dawn to travel miles across town just so she can make her *18-year old* son pancakes?

As a ‘Younger’ viewer, I wish that Herrmann had been more than a one-off.  Oh, he’s a little obsessed about his job, Carrie?  You *married* Big.

I had to double-check to see if ‘The Americans’ has recently been added to Max.

[Rebecca berkowit]

42 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I know she said she had an early class so I guess she is back at school. But we also saw her making breakfast at Steve's house. So does she sneak back in so Brady doesn't know she isn't sleeping there?

Even with Sara Ramirez who is non binary they still can't write a decent story for Che.

Everything about them is cringe.  Now we have Che worrying about money.  Is Miranda going to offer to pay for Che's apartment? 

 

No, Brady knows she isn’t sleeping there.  He actually said “You don’t need to come here every morning and make me breakfast.”  And then Mirandasaid “If I didn’t, you TWO would starve.”  So, yeah, we are just supposed to believe she is soooooo tired because she gets up sooooo early to make breakfast for her grown son and soon-to-be-ex husband.  Why hasn’t he moved out yet?  Was this just so they could have an excuse for her to room with Nya?  This is show is just so obviously constructed/plotted.  

[Rebecca berkowit]

i will discuss Che separately, because that topic needs its own space. (Ha)

I liked this episode, the Americans stuff with Harry made me laugh (yes, the show is off the air, but I think that was the point, I think it was supposed to be a deliberately obscure reference that other people didn’t get.  I thought the joke worked in that respect.)  Rock is super adorable.

The return to Guy of the Week plots with Seema and Carrie was funny.  I was thinking it was odd that the partner was his emergency contact and was also picking up his dry cleaning.  Then they paid it off in the final scene, where Carrie realized the guy did have kind of a “wife.”  It wasn’t as well-written and set up as the old show, but it was getting there.  Penis-pump guy was funny, and of course he would object to the vibrator.  I don’t understand why he couldn’t just take Viagra, though.   Seems like they just wanted to make a funny story about a penis pump, but it might have worked better twenty five years ago. 

I liked the upscale hotel bar, and the picking up men.  I’ve never found it that easy to pick up handsome men, even in an upscale hotel bar, but, hey, this show is wish-fulfillment.  
 

Liked Nya, and her scene with Miranda.  Look forward to more of that.  I know she went home with a guy, but can we hope that maybe, with the moving in together, they may be edging back toward their original plan of getting Miranda and Nya together?  Even just for a fling?  Of course, if they do that, they’re stuck with that relationship (or the fallout from it) for the rest of the series, since Nya is a main character.  Wonder what they were thinking with regard to that - they added these new characters, but was the original intent to just put one in a relationship right away with another main character?  Did they think it would only go one season?  

The show seems to be continuing its pattern of leaving out at least one of the new characters, this time Lisa.  We see her having satisfying sex with her husband in a costume.  Ok.  They don’t know what to do with her.  She has no character, she’s just a list of attributes.  (Black, wealthy, documentary film maker.). I hate to say this, but this is (or was) a show about women and sex.  Maybe one happily married character is enough.   Family stories can be interesting, but that’s not why I watch this show.

Nitpick-  who shops for a bed in a used furniture store anymore?  Why didn’t she just get an inexpensive twin bed from Target or IKEA, or even just an inflatable bed?  Why was she also buying the mattress there? Come to think of it, why was Carrie concerned about bedbugs when the mattress appeared to be new, wrapped in plastic?  Why not just have a mattress delivered?  Do they watch this show after they write it? 

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by Rebecca berkowit

[luna1122again]

1 hour ago, RedDelicious said:

 

I have this distinct recollection of Molly Dodd standing on a street corner and the narrator saying "Molly doesn't know it, but she's just conceived" and being like OH MY GOD. Am I remembering that correctly or am I losing my mind?

 

I thought I knew all things Molly Dodd, but I don't remember that. But it's been a long time since I've watched. I just discovered all eps are on YouTube so I am going to dive into an epic rewatch soon. 

Molly Dodd walked so Carrie Bradshaw could run, in her designer shoes. (Though Carrie really can't fill Molly's shoes.) 

I wouldn't wish Miranda on poor Nya, so I really hope they're not going there. Plus, I've never seen any indication that Nya is into women, but then again, we don't know much about her. But there is literally nothing left about Miranda that would attract...anyone, anymore, as far I can see. 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by luna1122again

[Lola82]

Charlotte went full American Psycho about the business card. “It’s embossed and has the real logo, wow!”

The first scene with Carrie and the biker was the most natural dialogue the show has had. As a NYer I’d also be apologizing that I’m not used to the bike lanes and I never stop there, etc. Although, it is creepy that she went over to his place after. And, as always, one flaw and she dips.

[Lethallyfab]

I can get what Carrie sees in Bike Guy, but I don’t get what he sees in her.  Besides Stockholm Syndrome.

[Rebecca berkowit]

I thought the scene when they are walking into the Halloween party was hilarious.   “I’m Helen Gurley Brown.” “I thought you were… You.” “When do I ever wear bows in my hair like this?” “Yesterday.” 
 

 

[T Summer]

6 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

I took the focus group scene as MPK trying chastize the audience for rejecting Sara Ramirez/Che. Don't you feel bad? You should!!!

OMG, Yes! With all the subtlety of a sledgehammer!

 

Of course if we the audience were all a bunch of homophobic weirdos we'd have had problems with Anthony, Stanford, Brad... wasn't that Samantha's friend who impersonated her in a club?, Maria, Samantha and Richard's guest star, Sidney the gay woman Miranda took to dinner at the bosses house, Charlotte's art collecting skiing lesbian click, Miranda's prospective threesome partners, Bitzy's husband Bobby, Oliver Carrie's Aussie clubbing pal , gay weddings with multiple Lizas  etc etc etc.

 

The ONLY weirdness regarding the whole spectrum of human sexuality came from THE WRITERS when they stuck the totally incongruent episode Boy Girl, Boy Girl  in  amongst the whole run of the show where they had Carrie, a sex columnist uttering BS like "I don't even believe in bisexuality, it's just a layover on the way to gaytown". or some such drivel.

5 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

I definitely think that focus group scene was written to specifically say something to viewers.  Did MPK (and most likely Cynthia Nixon) think it was some sort of wrap on the knuckles of viewers?  Probably.  It should be noted the gender queer person who spoke up in the focus group was criticizing the way Che was written in the pilot. Not Che themself.  And Miranda saying corporate Hollywood doesn't get it and Time Square tourists can't possibly understand is just a more polite way of saying if you don't like Che and Miranda with Che you are just a bigot. 

Yep!

[Rebecca berkowit]

Che:  from the first scene, is just awful.   Pulling a total pissy attitude when you were woken up accidentally, because Miranda has to wake up early because she has responsibilities and doesn’t just stay up all night smoking pot?   Making Miranda walk on eggshells and keep apologizing for it? When you can easily go back to sleep when she leaves, because you sleep all day anyway!  But then interrupting Miranda’s sleep because you need rolling papers for your pot buddies?  This is not an equal relationship, despite what Miranda thinks.  They are not “both” missing sleep, though they are keeping different hours.  And later, pushing Miranda away and crying about your TV show and how it took you 45 years to figure out who you are and the network just ruined that for you? (Your identity is that fragile?). And crying about how are you going to afford that apartment?  Why did you rent it when the show wasn’t a certainty? (For a moment there I thought they were going to have Miranda pay for it!). With Che it is always about Che’s needs, Che’s problems.  Just awful.  That behavior from a guy would get the guy kicked to the curb.  

And then…wonder of wonders, the show pulls something truly astonishing and gives us A FOCUS GROUP ABOUT THE CHARACTER OF CHE.  Complete with some of our initial criticisms of the character.  (We have more now, though.). You can bet this was deliberate, they specifically wrote a scene featuring criticism of a character, named Che, on a TV show.  How meta!  But what are the odds a “gender queer person from Brooklyn” would happen to be on this panel, and would happen to voice the exact criticism Che had of that crying scene?  (“It implies that being non-binary is something sad.”). Real subtle.  (Also, that part, like so much of how this show is written, was confusing.  Didn’t they say it was a panel of just randomly selected tourists?  Did the Brooklyn person just happen to be in Times Square that day?)

I do hope that Miranda and Che are over for good.  That seemed like a goodbye scene, with the hug and all.   It made no narrative sense to end the relationship just then, when Miranda didn’t do anything except keep different hours and try to console Che after the focus group.  But I will take it.  It’s been overdue. 

[Mrsmaul2021]

I'm sorry but I think Rock is the dumbest damn name i have ever heard and I would refuse to call my child this. 

[maggiegil]

Can you imagine if Miranda of SATC heard another woman was travelling across town at 5am so she could be there in order to make sure her 18 year old got up in the morning and that she could make him pancakes? I miss that Miranda

I mostly enjoyed this ep, it felt more like the old series than before. Carrie and Seemas storylines were fun. Also Nya has much more chemistry with the two of them than she does with Miranda.

I want the Che thing to be over, I get that we the audience are supposed to feel terrible for criticizing a queer character but thats how it is, its not as even if they even wrote Che to have any lovable or redeeming characteristics and now they're just playing it as a sob story. Che seems like the most unfun person to have around, the character goes between chiding people to whinging, not someone I would want to go for a drink with or be friends with.

The whole focus group made me think of this interview with Sara and Cynthia a few weeks ago
Hey, It’s Sara Ramírez They’ve heard your Che Diaz jokes.

"Back in the park, Ramírez waves away the side-eyes about Che, saying, “Anybody who benefits from patriarchy is going to have a problem with Che Diaz.” When I try to tell Nixon about some of my own mixed feelings, she asks, like a therapist, “Do you want to unpack that to me?” Both actors seem to believe the reaction has more to do with a societal discomfort around gender-nonconforming people, rather than a hope coming from actual queer people that we be portrayed as less lame."

[DoubleUTeeEff]

Harry dressed up as Matthew Rhys as Philip from the Americans is my favorite moment from this whole series so far. I also liked how Charlotte was able to talk him down at Rock's photo shoot. I'm glad there is one non-toxic relationship being portrayed on this show.

I'm an asshole because when everyone at the focus group raised their hands to say something negative about Che Che Binks, I laughed heartily. I didn't feel bad for them at all. They are kind of boomer humoring in that sitcom, so Che deserves to hear the criticism, even if they are going to ultimately disagree with it.

I think Miranda moving in with Nya is a good idea because they need a natural way for her to interact with the group more.

2 hours ago, Lola82 said:

The first scene with Carrie and the biker was the most natural dialogue the show has had. As a NYer I’d also be apologizing that I’m not used to the bike lanes and I never stop there, etc. Although, it is creepy that she went over to his place after. And, as always, one flaw and she dips.

I mean, it was a pretty big flaw, so I'm actually with her on this one. I thought the line the partner had about Carrie being there was pretty funny: "It's not NOT relevant!"

2 hours ago, Lola82 said:

Charlotte went full American Psycho about the business card. “It’s embossed and has the real logo, wow!”

Exactly where my mind went as well.

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by DoubleUTeeEff

[Rebecca berkowit]

17 minutes ago, maggiegil said:

Can you imagine if Miranda of SATC heard another woman was travelling across town at 5am so she could be there in order to make sure her 18 year old got up in the morning and that she could make him pancakes? I miss that Miranda

I mostly enjoyed this ep, it felt more like the old series than before. Carrie and Seemas storylines were fun. Also Nya has much more chemistry with the two of them than she does with Miranda.

I want the Che thing to be over, I get that we the audience are supposed to feel terrible for criticizing a queer character but thats how it is, its not as even if they even wrote Che to have any lovable or redeeming characteristics and now they're just playing it as a sob story. Che seems like the most unfun person to have around, the character goes between chiding people to whinging, not someone I would want to go for a drink with or be friends with.

The whole focus group made me think of this interview with Sara and Cynthia a few weeks ago
Hey, It’s Sara Ramírez They’ve heard your Che Diaz jokes.

"Back in the park, Ramírez waves away the side-eyes about Che, saying, “Anybody who benefits from patriarchy is going to have a problem with Che Diaz.” When I try to tell Nixon about some of my own mixed feelings, she asks, like a therapist, “Do you want to unpack that to me?” Both actors seem to believe the reaction has more to do with a societal discomfort around gender-nonconforming people, rather than a hope coming from actual queer people that we be portrayed as less lame."

It’s true.  For someone prone to making speeches about how non-binary characters should not be shown crying, BECAUSE THEY’RE NOT SAD, Che sure cries a lot.  Why are they writing the character that way? 

Edited July 13, 2023 by Rebecca berkowit

[Sailorgirl26]

Oh good lord. Now we don't hate non-binary characters, we hate comedians. 

Vanity Fair's recap of this week. 

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2023/07/and-just-like-that-season-2-episode-5-trick-or-treat-recap-still-watching

Che. Is. Just. Not. A. Good. Character.  

FFS.

[Hanahope]

Yes, Carrie stopped in the bike lane, but it was at an intersection.  Was bike guy just going to ride through the intersection without stopping?

I lol'd at the business partners as husband/wife and he says, no, Lennon and McCarthy and she responds, that makes me Yoko.

Appreciated the reference to George Washington with Chris Jackson.

Laughed at Anthony propositioning the guy in the very revealing roman costume thinking he was gay.  yeah, with that outfit, i might have made the same assumption.

Miranda really has to cross-town to wake her grown-ass son (who is apparently just leaching off his parents doing nothing?) and make him and her soon to be ex breakfast?  Seriously?  They really did a brain transfer with Miranda.

I too was so confused as to why Miranda was shopping for a twin bed in some used furniture store.  Didn't Che just buy Ikea furniture? or is this supposed to be an eventual way for Carrie to meet-cute again with Aiden?

and penis pump guy, if you are so offended by Seema's use of a vibrator, maybe you should have satisfied her before yourself.  

Harry looked good in his costume, lol.

 

[Rebecca berkowit]

18 minutes ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

Oh good lord. Now we don't hate non-binary characters, we hate comedians. 

Vanity Fair's recap of this week. 

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2023/07/and-just-like-that-season-2-episode-5-trick-or-treat-recap-still-watching

Che. Is. Just. Not. A. Good. Character.  

FFS.

This was not much of a recap.  And, I’m sorry, are they suggesting that in this episode, Che became more sympathetic?  No.  

[Sailorgirl26]

1 minute ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

This was not much of a recap.  And, I’m sorry, are they suggesting that in this episode, Che became more sympathetic?  No.  

Yes. Yes they are. 

[Rebecca berkowit]

25 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

Yes, Carrie stopped in the bike lane, but it was at an intersection.  Was bike guy just going to ride through the intersection without stopping?

I lol'd at the business partners as husband/wife and he says, no, Lennon and McCarthy and she responds, that makes me Yoko.

Appreciated the reference to George Washington with Chris Jackson.

Laughed at Anthony propositioning the guy in the very revealing roman costume thinking he was gay.  yeah, with that outfit, i might have made the same assumption.

Miranda really has to cross-town to wake her grown-ass son (who is apparently just leaching off his parents doing nothing?) and make him and her soon to be ex breakfast?  Seriously?  They really did a brain transfer with Miranda.

I too was so confused as to why Miranda was shopping for a twin bed in some used furniture store.  Didn't Che just buy Ikea furniture? or is this supposed to be an eventual way for Carrie to meet-cute again with Aiden?

and penis pump guy, if you are so offended by Seema's use of a vibrator, maybe you should have satisfied her before yourself.  

Harry looked good in his costume, lol.

 

Didn’t Seema say she usually has to get herself off after the guy is done?  So, I’m wondering what happened during their first encounter.  Why is the guy objecting to the vibrator the second time?  Is this the first time she’s brought it out?  Why? Did she not need it before?  Did he successfully get her off?  Again, do the writers LISTEN to the dialogue?  Did they just think it was easier to show her using the vibrator in a separate scene after the first one with the penis pump?  That may work, in terms of episode structure, but then why have her say she usually uses it?  Did they feel they needed to explain it, for when they showed it later?  Again, why have her say this is something she usually does, but imply she didn’t do it with this guy before?  

Edited July 13, 2023 by Rebecca berkowit

[T Summer]

Some  random  thoughts on the episode, which I liked the best so far of season 2, but then after that dreadful episode last week  there was nowhere to go but up...

 

The idea that Seema was annoyed that people at Charlotte's costumed event   kept asking her if she was supposed to be Padma Lakshmi... 😳

 

 

WTH was Seema's one night stand  using to noisily pump up with, while stamping his feet? That looked like some medical equipment from 1943.

 

Harry and Charlotte seem pretty well heeled financially and we're to believe he was planning on returning a wig he bought and WORE to a costume party?

 

Re: Carrie and "the guy of the week" who's eliminated by episode's end for one reason or another... she's awfully quick to throw away single men she might get get along  with. Her age and number of prospective partners has changed, not to mention how drastically the dating landscape itself has changed. There are the  raw demographics, men don't live as long as women do. Plus  she now has to find someone close to her financial status or she'll have to be concerned about whether they're after  her money. She needs to stop disqualifying decent men for trivial reasons.

 

Btw, when I was looking for a synopsis of this episode I came across an article that stated when Aiden returns

Spoiler

he will be single.

 

I've stated Che isn't high on my list of aspects of the show that bother me, as I just never took  the Che / Miranda pairing seriously. I think the actor is appealing and I wouldn't want Che to be Hollywood thin. That said, you know what's way worse than Che's comedy act? Overwrought freaking out Che! With Miranda idling at overwrought   all the time, it's  just too much.

 

21 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

Miranda really has to cross-town to wake her grown-ass son (who is apparently just leaching off his parents doing nothing?) and make him and her soon to be ex breakfast?  Seriously?  They really did a brain transfer with Miranda.

Didn't  Cynthia Miranda go follow Che like some groupie for months? Didn't she lay low in California when Che wasn't even returning her calls last year? Who was feeding Brady then? His perfectly capable Dad, no doubt. Or his grown-ass self!

Miranda losing sleep because she's seeing someone who's on a totally oppositional  sleep schedule? Now where have I seen that before?

 

 

[greekmom]

Sigh. Another week. Another disaster.

MPK and CN basically wanted to put all of us viewers in our place by giving us a slap on the wrist for not loving Che.  They wasted their time and my precious viewing time.

I don't get what the attraction is between Miranda and Che. She (M) is a wake up in the morning, do work/school/whatever and go to bed at night.  They (C) sleep at odd hours, are up at odd hours and smoke weed all fucking day when they are awake.  I get that Miranda  might be in awe as this was her first sexual experience with someone other than a man but comeon.... that does not make a relationship and  stop trying to make fetch happen MPK and CN!

Don't really care about Carrie's story, Sema's story or Charlotte's story.  Was mildly interested in the Professor having her first fling and could have watched her more. That and Harry. Everyone else is a dumpster fire.

There are 11 episodes. When is Aiden going to pop up?

 

[Penman61]

Encountering The Americans on this show is like biting into a surprise piece of prime steak on your shit sandwich.

[Rebecca berkowit]

8 minutes ago, greekmom said:

Sigh. Another week. Another disaster.

MPK and CN basically wanted to put all of us viewers in our place by giving us a slap on the wrist for not loving Che.  They wasted their time and my precious viewing time.

I don't get what the attraction is between Miranda and Che. She (M) is a wake up in the morning, do work/school/whatever and go to bed at night.  They (C) sleep at odd hours, are up at odd hours and smoke weed all fucking day when they are awake.  I get that Miranda  might be in awe as this was her first sexual experience with someone other than a man but comeon.... that does not make a relationship and  stop trying to make fetch happen MPK and CN!

Don't really care about Carrie's story, Sema's story or Charlotte's story.  Was mildly interested in the Professor having her first fling and could have watched her more. That and Harry. Everyone else is a dumpster fire.

There are 11 episodes. When is Aiden going to pop up?

 

Harry was hilarious in that scene in the wig at the photo shoot with Charlotte.  How they were talking to each other incognito, as if they were in an episode of The Americans!  And with her dressed in clothes from the 80’s!  

[SnapHappy]

Carrie just can't stay away from married men.....*LOL*

Looks like Kristin's face fillers are dissolving, I thought she looked GREAT.  More like her real self should, you could see laugh lines and some lip wrinkles.  Much more natural.  Gorgeous.  

And I LOVE what a trooper Harry always is, going along with the shenanigans.  If nothing else, MPK writes Harry as a man who's totally still in love with his wife and adores being a dad.  

I didn't hate Che, I didn't hate Brady.  That's good enough.  Not a bad show.  

 

[zamp33]

I actually enjoyed this episode the most so far (maybe it was because last weeks was so awful)  - and I realized  the one I liked/tolerated most last season was also directed by Cynthia Nixon, maybe she should be directing more episodes. 

2 hours ago, Mrsmaul2021 said:

I'm sorry but I think Rock is the dumbest damn name i have ever heard and I would refuse to call my child this. 

I am guessing Rock may have been in their own way referencing the name Rose - 4 letters/starts with Ro - my son is trans and when he changed his name he did accept my input and and used something that referenced the name I had given him at birth. 

Or perhaps Rock liked Rock Hudson? Since Harry and Charlotte love Elizabeth Taylor I am guessing Rock watched Giant at some point in their lives. 😂

Edited July 13, 2023 by zamp33
fixing a sentence/adding emoji

[Rebecca berkowit]

22 minutes ago, zamp33 said:

I actually enjoyed this episode the most so far (maybe it was because last weeks was so awful)  - and I realized  the one I liked/tolerated most last season was also directed by Cynthia Nixon, maybe she should be directing more episodes. 

I am guessing Rock may have been in their own way referencing the name Rose - 4 letters/starts with Ro - my son is trans and when he changed his name he did accept my input and and used something that referenced the name I had given him at birth. 

Or perhaps Rock liked Rock Hudson? Since Harry and Charlotte love Elizabeth Taylor I am guessing Rock watched Giant at some point in their lives. 😂

Ironically, Rock Hudson was not Rock Hudson’s real name.   

[zamp33]

6 minutes ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

Ironically, Rock Hudson was not Rock Hudson’s real name.   

I think it was Roy, can't remember the last name but they changed everyone's name back then!!First and last

[Rebecca berkowit]

5 minutes ago, zamp33 said:

I think it was Roy, can't remember the last name but they changed everyone's name back then!!First and last

Roy Fitzgerald.  I just watched a really good documentary on him.  They renamed everyone.  There was this one agent who renamed a lot of these cute young guys, and dated some of them, too.