S08.E17: Goodbye Stranger

[Demented Daisy]

Sam and Dean hunt down the angel tablet with assistance from Castiel and Meg.

 

 

Secrets and lies.  So tired of secrets and lies.

[DittyDotDot]

Secrets, lies and bludgeoning...don't forget the bludgeoning DD. ;)

 

I was so excited for the return of Cas but it just didn't hold water for me. I did like a lot of the beginning, that miniature model of the town was a thing of beauty and the kooky woman in curlers was delightful. For the first few minutes it felt a bit old-school Supernatural...but then it quickly fell apart. Don't even get me started on the stupidity of Lucifer's crypts...oh yeah, and the nonsense about Crowley and Naomi in Mesopotamia...nope, don't care for this one either.

[Amerilla]

I loved Meg in this one, through. An awesome send-off for the character (although I have a tiny little birthday-cake sized candle of hope that dead is never dead in SPN-world).

[DittyDotDot]

For a bit there, things seemed to be looking up. 

 

Overall, this is better than most S8 episodes, but I'm not sure if it's exactly a compliment. I like the beginning of the episode, right up till they find Meg, then it starts to fall apart for me. I don't think it's Meg's fault the episode starts unraveling at her appearance, just coincidence, IMO. There are some good bits with Dean and Castiel here and I'm happy Cass has taken control now.

 

So, Lucifer had crypts, huh? I don't even know where to start with that, but I will end with: why did Lucifer--an angel--ward the box containing the angel tablet against angels? It doesn't make sense that he would ward it against himself, but not against demons who could actual use the thing against him. I don't know, the idea that Lucifer had the thing in the first place kinda boggles my mind, so I'm gonna stop thinking about this all together. Its not like it really matters in the long run anyway.

 

Sam and Meg have a heart-to-heart about Amelia? Really? I mean, Meg's been around since S1, there's got to be at least nine hundred million, fifty three thousand and two other things that I would think Sam might want to talk with Meg about. Hey, maybe learning what her actual name was would've been something interesting? At least Sam acknowledged that she hasn't been the most reliable person in their lives and I do find it funny when Sam tells her they should just wait quietly.

 

Okay, I'm really interested in Naomi, but they really didn't do anything all that interesting with her in the end, did they? And, her and Crowley together in Mesopotamia is just plain stupid. I don't know, as a whole, the episode is kinda forgettable to me.

[catrox14]

I can't really forget Cas killing Dean a thousand times nor Cas beating the shit out of Dean and Dean essentially telling Cas he loves him to break him out of the spell.

Edited January 10, 2015 by catrox14

[Goldmoon]

OK, the woman in the curlers was great.  Old school indeed.  Meg was likable here, but the thing that stuck most with me was the fact that Sam and Dean jumped in the car at the end without even trying to draw Crowley off Meg.  What a dick move!  We all knew Cas wouldn't kill Dean so there wasn't much drama there.  I never thought of "Goodbye Stranger" as a rock song, more like pop, so I didn't care for that.  I was trying to hear the words and apply them to Cas but it didn't quite gel for me. So the fallen angel gets on a bus and wanders the earth.  Good grief!

[DittyDotDot]

I was trying to hear the words and apply them to Cas but it didn't quite gel for me. So the fallen angel gets on a bus and wanders the earth.  Good grief!

 

Ha! I remember when this episode first aired, I posited they could now do a spinoff with Cass riding around the country on a Greyhound helping fellow passengers one episode at a time.

 

ETA: I also always thought of Goodbye Stranger as a pop song...definitely not mullet rock, IMO.

Edited March 14, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[thesupremediva1]

I hung in there and this was pretty much the first ep of season 8 that I genuinely enjoyed. It wasn't without its problems, but it had some important Dean moments. His little heart to heart with Sammy, the "Rudy Hobbit" reference (I also refer to the character that way, since I don't really watch LOTR), and of course the scene with Cas. I teared up a bit. That was the first genuine emotion I'd felt in 17 episodes.

 

Why is it Dean who always gets beaten to a bloody pulp in the face? Why?! Why can't Sam get hit in the face every now and then? This is a real question.

 

And Meg! I have a soft spot for Rachel Miner. I think she's a terrific actress and has great chemistry with all the guys. She, like Jensen, elevates the material. I hope she returns at some point. I also love that Meg's reaction to Sam's last year was the same as Dean's. "A chick?!" For some reason that just made me giddy with laughter.

 

Finally, I thought the end music montage was well done. I love Goodbye Stranger. It was also an odd enough choice that I thought they finally chose a song that mirrored the off-kilter tone of the season. 

Edited January 14, 2016 by thesupremediva1

[RulerofallIsurvey]

WTF is this show's fascination with having Dean beaten bloody by someone close to him?  First Sam in 5x22 and now Cas.  Geez Us.  Just stop with that shit. 

So back to the not learning from the past thing - and here is Dean randomly opening boxes and then sniffing at what's inside?  Dude, you don't even know if that stuff was cursed....  I rolled my eyes so hard, they nearly got stuck up in my head.  

The model of the town in the basement was very Close Encounters/Agents of Shield.

Once again, Sam off looking like the biggest jerk ever.  He didn't look for Dean, or Kevin, and now even Meg.  And she reminds them that she took several bullets for them.  I kinda gotta side with Meg here.  I know she's a demon, but the Winchesters are supposed to be better than the demons.  So if demons would cut and run to save their own hides, the Winchesters should be the marines who don't leave anyone behind.  Bad Sam.  

And apparently, still not over Angry Lady... Gag. 

[DittyDotDot]

13 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

WTF is this show's fascination with having Dean beaten bloody by someone close to him?  First Sam in 5x22 and now Cas.  Geez Us.  Just stop with that shit. 

Actually, it goes back even further...Yellow Eyes-in-a-John also beat the hell out of Dean back in S1.  Granted he didn't use his fists, but still. Oh and there's also the time Meg-in-a-Sam beat the shit out of Dean. Not to the same degree, but still. 

I'm always impressed with Dean's ability to get people to take control.

[AwesomO4000]

1 hour ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Once again, Sam off looking like the biggest jerk ever.  He didn't look for Dean, or Kevin, and now even Meg.  And she reminds them that she took several bullets for them.  I kinda gotta side with Meg here.  I know she's a demon, but the Winchesters are supposed to be better than the demons.  So if demons would cut and run to save their own hides, the Winchesters should be the marines who don't leave anyone behind.  Bad Sam.  

And apparently, still not over Angry Lady... Gag. 

Yup season 8 just wouldn't let go of either of those things, no matter how much neither one really made sense. What they showed us in the flashbacks - to me anyway - didn't seem to support this "great love" they were trying to tell us was there.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

On 7/4/2016 at 0:57 AM, AwesomO4000 said:

What they showed us in the flashbacks - to me anyway - didn't seem to support this "great love" they were trying to tell us was there.

And if it was this "great love" why did he just leave her?  Why not try to work it out?  Fight for it?  That's just B.S.  

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

And if it was this "great love" why did he just leave her?  Why not try to work it out?  Fight for it?  That's just B.S.  

My head!canon is that Sam was trying to recapture his lost past with Jessica. And maybe realized that is all he was doing and that he didn't really love Amelia. Such a stupid SL in general. I mean how much more interesting would it have been if the show would have just had Sam acknowledge his past with Jessica in some way and that he realized he couldn't ever get THAT back.

Maybe that's the reason they chose to title it "Goodbye, Stranger". Not just because Dean was stranger to Cas because of the brainwashing by Naomi but Sam realizing that Amelia was a stranger to him more or less. 

See also: 

Edited July 6, 2016 by catrox14

[Dobian]

Yeah this reminded me of the season 5 finale, where Dean looked like Rocky Balboa before the start of the fifteenth round.  "Cut me, Mick!"

Quote

.oh yeah, and the nonsense about Crowley and Naomi in Mesopotamia...nope, don't care for this one either.

I thought it was established a couple of seasons ago that Crowley originated from the middle ages or later even.  So how is it that he was traipsing around "Mesopatamia"?  Doesn't that place him in 5,000 B.C.?

Edited July 29, 2016 by Dobian

[DittyDotDot]

23 minutes ago, Dobian said:

I thought it was established a couple of seasons ago that Crowley originated from the middle ages or later even.  So how is it that he was traipsing around "Mesopatamia"?  Doesn't that place him in 5,000 B.C.?

No, the show kinda screwed the pooch with this one. It's been established--in Weekend at Bobby's and later in the series--Crowley sold his soul in the 1700s. He's actually a pretty new demon by demon standards.

[Dobian]

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

No, the show kinda screwed the pooch with this one. It's been established--in Weekend at Bobby's and later in the series--Crowley sold his soul in the 1700s. He's actually a pretty new demon by demon standards.

LOL I knew it.  He's only about 300 years old.  That's what happens when you have a bunch of writers who don't the history of the characters they're writing about.  They could fix that by having Crowley later say he was referring to the Mesopatamia lounge in Dubai.  >.>

[Demented Daisy]

Welcome to the Carver years.  ;-)

[Commando Cody]

Am I the only one who watches this episode thinking "Just put the tablet back into the angel warded box, Dean".

[Commando Cody]

Yep. Same exact thing. Every. Single. Time. It's so freaking frustrating. 

[Katy M]

On ‎2‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 0:45 PM, Commando Cody said:

Am I the only one who watches this episode thinking "Just put the tablet back into the angel warded box, Dean".

Am I the only one who watches this episode and wonders why an angel has to beat up a human just to take some tablet off of him?  He can move quicker than the speed of light.  He's basically as strong as superman.  Why not just grab it and disappear?  You don't need Dean's permission, Cas. 

[catrox14]

IMO, Cas beating Dean was a result of him trying to resist  Naomi's programming which was to kill Dean. In Naomi's office in Heaven Cas was refusing her orders and I think somewhere he thought if he hit him he wouldn't stab him

[bettername2come]

What's more disturbing than one dead Winchester? An entire warehouse full of them. Yay for starting Wynonna Earp, so I get the Doc Holliday reference better this time around. I was just wondering why the guys never get into fights in their FBI suits. Glad to see it happening. And see Cas back. "You know, I can hear you both. I am a celestial being." Heh, "smutton chops." Poor curlers lady. Aw, Cas doesn't want to kill Meg. I'm shipping them pretty hard on this rewatch. He understood her reference! "Shut up, Meg!" I'm glad to hear them reference the time she possessed Sam, and her calling herself Team Sam amused me greatly. I love the cuts back to heaven in the fight with Dean. "I won't hurt Dean!" Dean's "No, Cas, Cas!" when he reaches for his face at the end breaks my heart. Not a bad sendoff for New Meg. Nice moments with the characters she's most important to and a reasonably noble death. "I can carry you." Rudy hobbit! This is a good one. 

[Hanahope]

9 hours ago, bettername2come said:

"I can carry you." Rudy hobbit! This is a good one. 

haha, yes, great line.  nice to know the boys have time to watch movies.

[Wayward Son]

On 10/01/2015 at 1:03 AM, catrox14 said:

I can't really forget Cas killing Dean a thousand times nor Cas beating the shit out of Dean and Dean essentially telling Cas he loves him to break him out of the spell.

Sadly, Robbie Thompson ruined that scene for me when he stated on Twitter Dean only said what he said so he could live rather than it being genuine. 

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Sadly, Robbie Thompson ruined that scene for me when he stated on Twitter Dean only said what he said so he could live rather than it being genuine. 

Maybe he was joking? That seems strange for Robbie to say that given he wrote the script and had Dean saying "I love you" before Jensen changed it to "I need you" because he didn't think Dean would say those words to anyone. Also, "I need you" is Dean's "I love you". 

[Katy M]

35 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Maybe he was joking? That seems strange for Robbie to say that given he wrote the script and had Dean saying "I love you" before Jensen changed it to "I need you" because he didn't think Dean would say those words to anyone. Also, "I need you" is Dean's "I love you". 

Plus, it doesn't really sound like something Dean would do.  At least not to me.  And, it's not how it came across on screen, which is all I really care about anyway.

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Plus, it doesn't really sound like something Dean would do.  At least not to me.  And, it's not how it came across on screen, which is all I really care about anyway.

 I agree that Dean wouldn't have said 'I love you".

IMO, Dean telling Cas "I need you" was genuine expression of his attachment to Cas, which he expressed earlier in the season when he found Cas in Purgatory and wanted him to come back with him. IMO, just because he said it as a way to get through to another loved one who is beating on him, doesn't make his words disingenuous or not reflective of his feelings towards his loved ones.

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

 I agree that Dean wouldn't have said 'I love you".

IMO, Dean telling Cas "I need you" was genuine expression of his attachment to Cas, which he expressed earlier in the season when he found Cas in Purgatory and wanted him to come back with him. IMO, just because he said it as a way to get through to another loved one who is beating on him, doesn't make his words disingenuous or not reflective of his feelings towards his loved ones.

I'm sorry, that's not what I meant.  I meant saying "i need you" just to get Cas to stop beating him doesn't sound like something he would do.

[Wayward Son]

I totally forget about this until now, but I found the tweet where Robbie Thompson admits Dean's words to Cas in the crypt were largely to do with not dying.

 

[catrox14]

how i

7 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I totally forget about this until now, but I found the tweet where Robbie Thompson admits Dean's words to Cas in the crypt were largely to do with not dying.

 

He's saying both things were true at the same time. It's no different than Dean appealing to John and Sam via their love for each other to stop harming him. Cas is held in that same regard.

[Wayward Son]

This episode would definitely be in my top five of s8 (although that’s probably not saying much considering I hate half the episodes ;) ). My favourite part was the return of Castiel and him finally escaping the influence of that bitch Naomi. I never had issue with him running off with the tablet. I can understand him wanting to protect it from the brothers just as much as the angels and demons considering his guilt for the damage Godstiel wrought in heaven. This episode is also an example of just deep Cas’ devotion to Dean lies. All those fake attempts and yet he couldn’t bring himself to kill the real thing. I also enjoy Meg in this one especially the shout back to her possession of Sam. The fault does have its flaw particularly the Crowley and Naomi mistake, but I can overlook those :)

[Catfi9ht]

On 8/10/2017 at 11:59 PM, bettername2come said:

What's more disturbing than one dead Winchester? An entire warehouse full of them. Yay for starting Wynonna Earp, so I get the Doc Holliday reference better this time around. I was just wondering why the guys never get into fights in their FBI suits. Glad to see it happening. And see Cas back. "You know, I can hear you both. I am a celestial being." Heh, "smutton chops." Poor curlers lady. Aw, Cas doesn't want to kill Meg. I'm shipping them pretty hard on this rewatch. He understood her reference! "Shut up, Meg!" I'm glad to hear them reference the time she possessed Sam, and her calling herself Team Sam amused me greatly. I love the cuts back to heaven in the fight with Dean. "I won't hurt Dean!" Dean's "No, Cas, Cas!" when he reaches for his face at the end breaks my heart. Not a bad sendoff for New Meg. Nice moments with the characters she's most important to and a reasonably noble death. "I can carry you." Rudy hobbit! This is a good one. 

I agree with all of the above. This is the first episode this season where I've had an emotional reaction to the material. I thought tension-building showing Castiel's internal struggle with the cuts back and forth between Heaven and punching Dean was a really good tempo and the timing of the conflict resolution was well done. Bravo to this episode's director! Finally, a grown-up episode this season. Well as grown up as you can get with a show about Angels, Demons, and other Supernatural miscellany.

[Iju]

dean's voice breaking when he thought cass was going to hurt him, omg. and he was shaking as well. why they gotta do that to us ;_;

i honestly don't care about meg's whole "I'm on team Sam speech", she just stated she let innocent people die because she's a demon and i don't blame her. she's a freaking demon. i don't care if she took 7 thousand bullets for either brother. ruby taught me nice and well not to trust any demon anymore in the existence of your life. but her weird attraction to cass and vice versa was cute, i guess. sad she's dead, not "moving the furniture" for those two.

the LOTR sam reference hit me hard because he's my favorite character in the series. i strive to be him in my best moments. i adore anything said about my LOTR sam, so with that i leave this episode with a great feeling.

[The Companion]

I actually really  liked this one. JA knocked it out of the park in the scene with Castiel, of course. I enjoyed the return of Meg (who am I?) and I was sad to see her die, shockingly.

I liked that Meg and Castiel bonded over the course of the show, but had to roll my eyes at the Megstiel romance. Was there a dare in the writers' room to get star crossed lovers in every episode of the season? 

Nice of someone to remember that Kevin might need supplies, even as an excuse. Lol. 

I had to laugh when Meg was asking Sam about Amelia. Don't do it, Meg! The story is not that interesting. Props to Meg for being a female demon who kept her clothes on for torture. 😆🙄

Dumb thought of the day: when Dean said he would carry Sam, i got a silly mental image of him literally picking up Sam.

Anyway, in a season lacking direction, this one was fairly solid for me.