Chit-Chat: What's On Your Mind Today?

[Dimity]

Random question for the universe when did the Leonard Cohen song "Hallelujah" become a Christmas song?????  Our local station has started playing Christmas songs every evening and "Hallelujah" has been played almost every night along with Santa Claus is Coming to Town and Santa Baby.  Profoundly confused listener here!

[Mountainair]

57 minutes ago, Dimity said:

Random question for the universe when did the Leonard Cohen song "Hallelujah" become a Christmas song?????  Our local station has started playing Christmas songs every evening and "Hallelujah" has been played almost every night along with Santa Claus is Coming to Town and Santa Baby.  Profoundly confused listener here!

Me personally, the moment my life started to crumble around me. My 5 year old needing multiple surgeries for a repeat broken arm, my son being diagnosed with a heart defect at the same time requiring surgeries, loss of loved ones-2020. I lost my Mother in law this year who has been a part of my life since I was 14. I don’t consider it a Christmas song but it is played this time of year to bring people like me to our knees with emotion. Thankfully I’m on the right amount of anxiety meds to keep me sane-ish.

It’s kinda like when randomly they decided My Favorite Things from The Sound of Music was a Christmas song. 

[Kimboweena]

14 hours ago, Dimity said:

 

Edited December 4 by Kimboweena
Over it

[Ohiopirate02]

7 minutes ago, Kimboweena said:

Um, because that's what Christmas is all about. 

The Leonard Cohen song is about religion, a romantic breakup, and sex. Some lyrics--"remember when I moved in you and the holy dove was moving too," "you saw her bathing on the roof," "she tied you to a kitchen chair, she broke your throne, she cut your hair."

Edited December 4 by Ohiopirate02

[PRgal]

3 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The Leonard Cohen song is about religion, a romantic breakup, and sex. Some lyrics--"remember when I moved in you and the holy dove was moving too," "you saw her bathing on the roof," "she tied you to a kitchen chair, she broke your throne, she cut your hair."

I always saw it as a (graphic) reference to the Bathsheba story in the Bible (read it in Grade 8 RK (Religious Knowledge)) so I absolutely CANNOT connect it to Christmas.  And it's always wrong for someone other than Leonard Cohen to sing it.  Okay, fine, Jeff Buckley is KIND of okay, but still not Leonard Cohen.  /rant

[Dimity]

21 minutes ago, PRgal said:

And it's always wrong for someone other than Leonard Cohen to sing it. 

Personally I love the K.D. Lang version best.  But then, hey, K.D. Lang so there ya go.

 

Edited December 4 by Dimity

[Dimity]

11 hours ago, Mountainair said:

It’s kinda like when randomly they decided My Favorite Things from The Sound of Music was a Christmas song. 

Same with Angels by Robbie Williams.  I yield to no one in my love for Robbie Williams and this song is definitely one of my all time favourite songs but just because the word angel is in it doesn't make it a Christmas song!

[PRgal]

12 hours ago, Mountainair said:

Me personally, the moment my life started to crumble around me. My 5 year old needing multiple surgeries for a repeat broken arm, my son being diagnosed with a heart defect at the same time requiring surgeries, loss of loved ones-2020. I lost my Mother in law this year who has been a part of my life since I was 14. I don’t consider it a Christmas song but it is played this time of year to bring people like me to our knees with emotion. Thankfully I’m on the right amount of anxiety meds to keep me sane-ish.

It’s kinda like when randomly they decided My Favorite Things from The Sound of Music was a Christmas song. 

Many hugs to you re: family

Re: The Sound of Music:  it’s also because it airs around Christmas every year.  It’s kind of become a Christmas movie. 

[shapeshifter]

What is the context in which these songs are being played or listed?
I'm confused as to how or by whom they are being categorized as "Christmas Songs." 
Is it on TV or radio or an album or a podcast? 
 

25 minutes ago, Dimity said:

just because the word angel is in it doesn't make it a Christmas song!

This👆mis-assignment could happen if someone tasked with setting up some sort of Chat GPT or AI app for purposes of generating a list of Christmas songs got a little too broad in applying keywords, or (more likely, IMO) wasn't educated or trained in ontology.
But regarding:

12 hours ago, Mountainair said:

It’s kinda like when randomly they decided My Favorite Things from The Sound of Music was a Christmas song. 

…the list of "My Favorite Things" did always seem to related to lists for Santa in my mind, maybe because it's preceded by mentions of snow?

• Snowflakes that stay on my nose and eyelashes
  Silver-white winters that melt into springs
  These are a few of my favorite things…

But, again, I don't get out much, and I don't subscribe to cable TV, so I seem to be missing where these not-quite Christmas songs are being played.

Edited December 4 by shapeshifter

[Dimity]

41 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Is it on TV or radio or an album or a podcast? 

For me it's two out of the four.  The song Angels is on an album (yes, I am that old) that my son gave me called "The Best Christmas Album Ever".  The Halleluiah song is being given endless airplay on my local golden oldies station (yes, I am that old) every evening now along with other more standard Christmas music.  I suspect one reason for this latter is, along with them not actually listening to the lyrics, is that I am in Canada and our radio stations have to play a certain % of Canadian artists within a given timeframe.

Edited December 4 by Dimity

[Ohiopirate02]

26 minutes ago, Dimity said:

For me it's two out of the four.  The song Angels is on an album (yes, I am that old) that my son gave me called "The Best Christmas Album Ever".  The Halleluiah song is being given endless airplay on my local golden oldies station (yes, I am that old) every evening now along with other more standard Christmas music.  I suspect one reason for this latter is, along with them not actually listening to the lyrics, is that I am in Canada and our radio stations have to play a certain % of Canadian artists within a given timeframe.

Out of curiosity, do your radio stations have a quota for the number of times Gordon Lightfoot's "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" must be played in the month of November?

[Dimity]

1 minute ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Out of curiosity, do your radio stations have a quota for the number of times Gordon Lightfoot's "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" must be played in the month of November?

Good question!! I don't know if the endless replays are a nod to a specific event or not (probably not to be honest) but I know if I never hear the song "Seasons in the Sun" by Terry Jacks again I will die a happy woman.

[Absolom]

An aside about Hallelujah, but I also side eye it as wedding music where it's become quite popular.

[Cloud9Shopper]

10 hours ago, PRgal said:

Many hugs to you re: family

Re: The Sound of Music:  it’s also because it airs around Christmas every year.  It’s kind of become a Christmas movie. 

I love watching The Sound of Music every year. It was my grandmother’s favorite movie so my mom and I will continue to put on ABC and mark our calendars every year it’s on. I have a lot of snacks on hand for the four-hour time period as well. :)

[annzeepark914]

12 hours ago, Dimity said:

For me it's two out of the four.  The song Angels is on an album (yes, I am that old) that my son gave me called "The Best Christmas Album Ever".  The Halleluiah song is being given endless airplay on my local golden oldies station (yes, I am that old) every evening now along with other more standard Christmas music.  I suspect one reason for this latter is, along with them not actually listening to the lyrics, is that I am in Canada and our radio stations have to play a certain % of Canadian artists within a given timeframe.

The Great White North! Featuring Doug & ?Bob? McKenzie. I remember when that skit started on SNL and we read about the reasoning behind this skit. Two brothers created a show that was *totally* Canadian. It was really mocking this % rule (probably written by Canadians on SNL). Who knew?? I loved this skit.

[Yeah No]

On 12/1/2024 at 2:45 PM, Bastet said:

My mind is boggled at its popularity, given its signature taste comes from the fact Hershey's chemist fucked up and the milk soured during the condensing process.  Hershey decided he'd unintentionally hit on the winning formula, and, shockingly, he had (in America), so that's how it's made to this day. 

As I remember it from one of those food history documentaries, Hershey was playing around with finding a way to make milk chocolate from fresh milk rather than condensed milk as it was made in Europe. He thought it would taste better, last longer and was fresher. Only he had problems finding a way to make chocolate that way. The milk accidently soured during one of his assistant's attempts to solve the problem, and it worked.

[Yeah No]

On 12/3/2024 at 10:12 PM, Dimity said:

Random question for the universe when did the Leonard Cohen song "Hallelujah" become a Christmas song?????  Our local station has started playing Christmas songs every evening and "Hallelujah" has been played almost every night along with Santa Claus is Coming to Town and Santa Baby.  Profoundly confused listener here!

My guess (sarcasm alert) is that it's a secular, uninformed person's idea of a spiritual/Christmas song because it has the word "hallelujah" in it. And of course the people it's aimed at are just as secular and uninformed so it works for them. And the rest of us that know better are left scratching our heads.

~OR~

Because with the rule in Canada that radio stations have to play a certain percentage of Canadian artists within a given timeframe, they have to bend the rules a bit, lol. 😉

17 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

But, again, I don't get out much, and I don't subscribe to cable TV, so I seem to be missing where these not-quite Christmas songs are being played.

I usually hear general holiday/Christmas music played in restaurants and stores. But to be honest while the song "Hallelujah" is familiar to me I don't recall hearing it played in mixes with holiday music. But then again here in the States our radio stations don't have to play a certain percentage of Canadian artists within a given timeframe either.

ETA: Note that saying "secular, uninformed" is not to imply a "therefore" in there at all, or that one follows from the other, just a possible description of a person that may be both. I realize you can be secular and informed and religious and uninformed.

Edited December 5 by Yeah No
To add the ETA.

[Anela]

I’m not religious, and I know the song has nothing to do with religion, or Christmas. 

I can’t believe that Christmas is three weeks away.  I am not feeling it, at all.  I think we are looking for a tree on Friday.

[Yeah No]

24 minutes ago, Anela said:

I’m not religious, and I know the song has nothing to do with religion, or Christmas. 

I get that, but you're not also uninformed. I'm just carping on how many people today are uninformed about stuff like that and don't look more than surface-deep at anything. I'm just seeing tons of that lately.

[Yeah No]

I just plugged my date of birth into this age calculator and found out I've lived just over 24,000 days. I guessed it would be around 25,000 so I was close, but how depressing!

https://www.calculator.net/age-calculator.html?today=10%2F17%2F1958&

1 hour ago, Anela said:

I can’t believe that Christmas is three weeks away.  I am not feeling it, at all.  I think we are looking for a tree on Friday.

Me neither. I feel like the Grinch stole my Christmas earlier this month and not just for the most obvious reason either. We've been dealing with some less than competent contractors and now trying to find a new company to complete our repairs from when a tree fell on our house and damaged the roof and front wall. We've just been through the 9 circles of hell with this already and don't look forward to having to sign up with someone else to pick up where they left off and make sense out of this project.  We're putting off further work until the Spring (it's snowing here right now) so we're not in a rush, but it's just been a downer for us.

Although I think I might be getting more into the spirit later now that my BFF is coming to stay with us for a few days over Christmas. 

And thanks @EtheltoTillie, we are talking with our private adjustor who is going to look into that extra coverage you mentioned as well as assist us with other aspects of this issue. Our lawyer looked over the contract and it's not worth the paper it's printed on so we're not on the hook for anything with them at this point. 

Speaking of Christmas gifts, my BFF and I are exchanging gifts we already own. She's giving me a couple of makeup items and I'm giving her my Bath and Bodyworks body creams that I realized I'm sensitive to. It's a smell issue not a breakout issue. I sometimes find out after I've bought and used something with a fragrance in it that the it bothers me as in makes me feel yucky or almost dizzy. I have that problem with many perfumes too. And it often happens after I've used too much of the product to return it.

[EtheltoTillie]

Regifting FTW. 

[ABay]

19 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Out of curiosity, do your radio stations have a quota for the number of times Gordon Lightfoot's "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" must be played in the month of November?

No! nonononono do not invoke the curse of the *dm*nd F*tzg*ld! Jeopardy uses that for a clue at least once a month, it feels like. And then the song is stuck in my head for a week. Damn you, Gordon Lightfoot. Damn you.

[tearknee]

There's also Terry Pratchett’s recipe for a brandy-soaked fruitcake, which is that you replace all of the ingredients with more brandy and drink brandy out of a cake tin

[fastiller]

8 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

The Great White North! Featuring Doug & ?Bob? McKenzie. I remember when that skit started on SNL and we read about the reasoning behind this skit. Two brothers created a show that was *totally* Canadian. It was really mocking this % rule (probably written by Canadians on SNL). Who knew?? I loved this skit.

Take off!  It's a beauty way to go!

24 minutes ago, tearknee said:

There's also Terry Pratchett’s recipe for a brandy-soaked fruitcake, which is that you replace all of the ingredients with more brandy and drink brandy out of a cake tin

Sir Pterry is the everloving best!

[Dimity]

I've been getting a lot of memes and posts etc dealing with tipping.  Yes, I know this can be a touchy subject but given that, at least where I live, tipping is a reality in most restaurants, I am wondering how others feel about the "if you can't afford to tip at least 20% then you shouldn't be eating out" finger waving that I am noticing a lot lately.

I mean I get it.  If you are eating at a nice restaurant that expects you to tip then IMO you should tip a reasonable amount. 

Not sure why then this is rubbing me the wrong way.  I guess it's the attitude that people aren't having a nice meal out to relax and get away from it all, they're eating out to give the restaurant and servers money. 

[shapeshifter]

20 minutes ago, Dimity said:

I've been getting a lot of memes and posts etc dealing with tipping.  Yes, I know this can be a touchy subject but given that, at least where I live, tipping is a reality in most restaurants, I am wondering how others feel about the "if you can't afford to tip at least 20% then you shouldn't be eating out" finger waving that I am noticing a lot lately.

I mean I get it.  If you are eating at a nice restaurant that expects you to tip then IMO you should tip a reasonable amount. 

Not sure why then this is rubbing me the wrong way.  I guess it's the attitude that people aren't having a nice meal out to relax and get away from it all, they're eating out to give the restaurant and servers money. 

I eat out so rarely that I arguably should not offer my 2 cents here, so feel free to scroll past.
Nevertheless:
When the moment to tip arrives, I consider the current 20% rule as the default, and then adjust up or down, mostly weighing the service, but also giving some consideration to my own financial situation.
In weighing the service, if the server seems to be having a bad day, I will tip a bit higher, both to even out the state of the universe, and to make myself feel like a bit of a mensch.
 

[Absolom]

55 minutes ago, Dimity said:

I've been getting a lot of memes and posts etc dealing with tipping.  Yes, I know this can be a touchy subject but given that, at least where I live, tipping is a reality in most restaurants, I am wondering how others feel about the "if you can't afford to tip at least 20% then you shouldn't be eating out" finger waving that I am noticing a lot lately.

I mean I get it.  If you are eating at a nice restaurant that expects you to tip then IMO you should tip a reasonable amount. 

Not sure why then this is rubbing me the wrong way.  I guess it's the attitude that people aren't having a nice meal out to relax and get away from it all, they're eating out to give the restaurant and servers money. 

It's also the tip creep.  Over the years the opinion of a normal or expected tip keeps going up along with the price of the service so it's a compound increase in tipping.  In the 50s it was 10 per cent, then 12, 15, 18, and now 20.  It has to stop somewhere and who exactly is driving the increases? The finger waving and expectations bother me, too.  I still think pay people a realistic wage and ditch the tipping culture.  

[EtheltoTillie]

For most of my life (age 69) the standard tip was 15 percent (I don't remember 10 or 12).  Since our sales tax in NYC is 8 percent (approx), people would double the tax as an easy way to compute it, giving the waiter an extra one percent.  But a few years ago, there was a tip creep to 20 percent.  And that's just the way it is.  But I think there are enough older/cheap people who haven't gotten that message or just don't like it, so they still do 15 percent.  FWIW, let them do it. 

Edited December 5 by EtheltoTillie

[Dimity]

17 minutes ago, Absolom said:

The finger waving and expectations bother me, too. 

This is where I am.  I would never eat out and not tip, and for me that is usually 20-25% but I think what is bothering me is the snotty attitude I am seeing as in "how dare you even leave your house if you're not prepared  to shell out $$$$".   As if all of us are sitting around on our moneybags and laughing all the way to the bank.

Edited December 5 by Dimity

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, Dimity said:

This is where I am.  I would never eat out and not tip, and for me that is usually 20-25% but I think what is bothering me is the snotty attitude I am seeing as in "how dare you even leave your house if you're not prepared  to shell out $$$$".   As if all of us are sitting around on our moneybags and laughing all the way to the bank.

I hate it when people have a snotty attitude about stuff like that but I do think people need to factor a tip into their restaurant budget and not whine about how they don't have enough money to give a decent tip. But if a "decent" tip means giving over 15%, that's also not fair to the diners that are just up to their price limit anyway.

I have to say that my husband and I have had "menu shock" in some restaurants lately and that's because the prices have gone way up in the past few years. We are dining out less as a result. But factor in the increased cost of food, the fact that the minimum wage has gone up, and the minimum wage for restaurant servers that get tips as well and it's continuing to get more expensive. Recently a lot of people were on the bandwagon for restaurant employees to get paid more but they forgot that the restaurants will often pass that increased cost along to the diners. And then everyone is shocked and upset when their favorite restaurants close. Some of them are operating on thin margins to begin with so many of them can't survive this situation.

I think the solution in restaurants should be like what they do in hotels and cruise ships and that's charge a simple percentage up front as a gratuity. That way everything is spelled out and the tip is part of the bill. But then I've heard that restauranteurs will keep that money and not give it to their servers, which is one reason why my husband and I try to give a cash tip to the actual server whenever possible.

1 hour ago, EtheltoTillie said:

For most of my life (age 69) the standard tip was 15 percent (I don't remember 10 or 12).  Since our sales tax in NYC is 8 percent (approx), people would double the tax as an easy way to compute it, giving the waiter an extra one percent.  But a few years ago, there was a tip creep to 20 percent.  And that's just the way it is.  But I think there are enough older/cheap people who haven't gotten that message or just don't like it, so they still do 15 percent.  FWIW, let them do it. 

Yes, I remember that rule as well and it was the standard for me when I lived in NY, but when I got to CT where the sales tax was lower I had to change that formula, lol.

[EtheltoTillie]

22 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

. Recently a lot of people were on the bandwagon for restaurant employees to get paid more but they forgot that the restaurants will often pass that increased cost along to the diners.

Yes, I remember that rule as well and it was the standard for me when I lived in NY, but when I got to CT where the sales tax was lower I had to change that formula, lol.

Agree--this is the part that makes no sense to me.  So many people shouting about paying waiters a "living wage"--that will still be reflected in the food prices.   The result will be the same total cost to the diner.    Restaurants run on thin margins.

Yes, in other "jurisdictions" we have to use different math for the tip.

[PRgal]

11 hours ago, Yeah No said:

My guess (sarcasm alert) is that it's a secular, uninformed person's idea of a spiritual/Christmas song because it has the word "hallelujah" in it. And of course the people it's aimed at are just as secular and uninformed so it works for them. And the rest of us that know better are left scratching our heads.

~OR~

Because with the rule in Canada that radio stations have to play a certain percentage of Canadian artists within a given timeframe, they have to bend the rules a bit, lol. 😉

I usually hear general holiday/Christmas music played in restaurants and stores. But to be honest while the song "Hallelujah" is familiar to me I don't recall hearing it played in mixes with holiday music. But then again here in the States our radio stations don't have to play a certain percentage of Canadian artists within a given timeframe either.

ETA: Note that saying "secular, uninformed" is not to imply a "therefore" in there at all, or that one follows from the other, just a possible description of a person that may be both. I realize you can be secular and informed and religious and uninformed.

HAHAHAHA!!!  But there's also tons of Michael Bublé out there....

[Absolom]

The 10 per cent tipping was in the 50s and perhaps into early 60s.  I remember when I was first allowed to get an ice cream sundae with just my friends and no parents.  My mom always asked if I had a quarter.  That was the standard tip for the fountain sundae.  

[meep.meep]

On 12/4/2024 at 9:08 AM, Dimity said:

For me it's two out of the four.  The song Angels is on an album (yes, I am that old) that my son gave me called "The Best Christmas Album Ever".  The Halleluiah song is being given endless airplay on my local golden oldies station (yes, I am that old) every evening now along with other more standard Christmas music.  I suspect one reason for this latter is, along with them not actually listening to the lyrics, is that I am in Canada and our radio stations have to play a certain % of Canadian artists within a given timeframe.

They have to do that and it's not Drake all the time?

Besides, isn't Cohen Jewish?  Why would he write a Christmas song?

[Absolom]

Isn't it all Old Testament or OT references and imagery?   He was brought up Jewish.

[shapeshifter]

20 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

For most of my life (age 69) the standard tip was 15 percent (I don't remember 10 or 12).…But a few years ago, there was a tip creep to 20 percent. 

18 hours ago, Yeah No said:

But factor in the increased cost of food, the fact that the minimum wage has gone up, and the minimum wage for restaurant servers that get tips as well and it's continuing to get more expensive.

So, the increase for the "base tip rate" of 15% to 20% was apparently to allow minimum (or lower) wage servers to make a living?

In my early "career" in fast foods, those places (McDonalds, Mr Donut, Taco Kid) did not have tipping, or even "tip jars," even though we were paid less than minimum wage because apparently laws for places that served food permitted the employers to pay less than minimum wage because it was presumed the employees were getting tips? This was in the Champaign-Urbana area of Illinois in the 1970s.

 

[EtheltoTillie]

18 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

So, the increase for the "base tip rate" of 15% to 20% was apparently to allow minimum (or lower) wage servers to make a living?

In my early "career" in fast foods, those places (McDonalds, Mr Donut, Taco Kid) did not have tipping, or even "tip jars," even though we were paid less than minimum wage because apparently laws for places that served food permitted the employers to pay less than minimum wage because it was presumed the employees were getting tips? This was in the Champaign-Urbana area of Illinois in the 1970s.

 

I do not think the tip creep was tied to something specific.  It's informal.  Something in the zeitgeist.  NY and most states I believe still have the tipped minimum wage.  It allows employers to pay less if the employees earn tips.  When I worked in fast food in NYC we were paid minimum wage.  The employers were not allowed to use the tipped minimum because there was no tipping allowed.  BTW, the minimum wage was $2 back then.  1973.  The federal minimum is still a paltry $7.25.  In NYC and LI it's $16.

[Yeah No]

12 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I do not think the tip creep was tied to something specific.  It's informal.  Something in the zeitgeist.  NY and most states I believe still have the tipped minimum wage.  It allows employers to pay less if the employees earn tips.  When I worked in fast food in NYC we were paid minimum wage.  The employers were not allowed to use the tipped minimum because there was no tipping allowed.  BTW, the minimum wage was $2 back then.  1973.  The federal minimum is still a paltry $7.25.  In NYC and LI it's $16.

Just chiming in to thank you for using the word "zeitgeist".

I think among other things, the tip creep happened as a result of minimum wage being reported as not keeping up with the cost of living, which in the '70s was rising at an alarming rate. 

BTW, I worked in fast food in NYC in the late '70s at Burger King. I wish I had a photo of myself in that uniform, lol. I am still shocked at how low my earnings were, even for back then, especially considering the high inflation rate.

 

[Ohiopirate02]

38 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I do not think the tip creep was tied to something specific.  It's informal.  Something in the zeitgeist.  NY and most states I believe still have the tipped minimum wage.  It allows employers to pay less if the employees earn tips.  When I worked in fast food in NYC we were paid minimum wage.  The employers were not allowed to use the tipped minimum because there was no tipping allowed.  BTW, the minimum wage was $2 back then.  1973.  The federal minimum is still a paltry $7.25.  In NYC and LI it's $16.

The lower minimum wage does not allow for employers to pay less because of tips. The employer is still on the hook to pay their employees the difference between $2.13 and $7.25 (or whatever the state and local minimum wage is) if the employee does not make enough tips to cover. Most of the time, the employees do make enough in tips to earn a hourly wage above the minimum. But if they do not, the employer is supposed to pay the employee the difference. Tipped employees are taxed like they are making the minimum wage not the $2.13 wage, and employers are taxed the same on their end.

[EtheltoTillie]

1 minute ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The lower minimum wage does not allow for employers to pay less because of tips. The employer is still on the hook to pay their employees the difference between $2.13 and $7.25 (or whatever the state and local minimum wage is) if the employee does not make enough tips to cover. Most of the time, the employees do make enough in tips to earn a hourly wage above the minimum. But if they do not, the employer is supposed to pay the employee the difference. Tipped employees are taxed like they are making the minimum wage not the $2.13 wage, and employers are taxed the same on their end.

Thanks for adding that detail.  I knew it in the background, but I never think about it because usually the tips do make up the difference. 

[Ohiopirate02]

16 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Thanks for adding that detail.  I knew it in the background, but I never think about it because usually the tips do make up the difference. 

They usually do make up the difference, but there are a lot of bad bosses in the restaurant world. What the employer is supposed to do and what they actually do can be different, and most servers have little to no recourse to make their employer follow the law. Corporate places will, small places with an inept owner may not.

Then there's practices like pooling tips and tipping out your busboys and other kitchen staff. Both of these can severely impact how much money a server gets to take home. It really depends on how much the server is pulling in before having to pay out. My little brother worked as a cook in a place that tipped out the back of house staff. He got a decent wage for being a late night cook before the tip outs, but the servers were still pulling in more money than what he was making. There they could afford to tip out, but some places are different. 

I really have no problem tipping 20% or more because I know enough about how restaurants work. That tip may not just be going to the person assigned to wait on you. 

[Dimity]

I think this is country wide (Canada) but am open to correction, however I believe all servers here now make at least minimum wage.  This is fairly recent but I'm not really buying that this has that much to do with the rise in prices in most restaurants. 

It's a convenient excuse the owners might want to throw out there but the bigger reason for the raise in prices is corporate greed - on the part of the suppliers of food and on the part of the owners.  We've had restaurants close here, not because they weren't making money but because the owners decided they weren't making enough money. 

All the generous tipping in the world will never change that.  It's interesting though that people are being urged to pay even higher tips then ever before just as servers are making at the least what every store employee makes, and just as grocery stores etc are making record profits.

Edited December 6 by Dimity

[EtheltoTillie]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

They usually do make up the difference, but there are a lot of bad bosses in the restaurant world. What the employer is supposed to do and what they actually do can be different, and most servers have little to no recourse to make their employer follow the law. Corporate places will, small places with an inept owner may not.

Then there's practices like pooling tips and tipping out your busboys and other kitchen staff. Both of these can severely impact how much money a server gets to take home. It really depends on how much the server is pulling in before having to pay out. My little brother worked as a cook in a place that tipped out the back of house staff. He got a decent wage for being a late night cook before the tip outs, but the servers were still pulling in more money than what he was making. There they could afford to tip out, but some places are different. 

I really have no problem tipping 20% or more because I know enough about how restaurants work. That tip may not just be going to the person assigned to wait on you. 

Another interesting related issue is how does the restaurant keep track of the tips.  If they're in cash, the owners don't know how much the server received.  But these days most tips are probably on a credit card.  Then there are the credit card fees and tax withholding. 

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Another interesting related issue is how does the restaurant keep track of the tips.  If they're in cash, the owners don't know how much the server received.  But these days most tips are probably on a credit card.  Then there are the credit card fees and tax withholding. 

The beauty of cash tips is that it's up to the server to report them. Credit card tips leave a record and that can be good enough for the employer to square away all of the tax stuff and any tip outs. Obviously, if the credit card tips are less than (minimum wage-2.13) then the server needs to report some of their cash tips. I personally like to split my tip whenever possible so the server has something to report and something to keep for themselves. 

[Gramto6]

On 12/4/2024 at 7:52 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

I love watching The Sound of Music every year. It was my grandmother’s favorite movie so my mom and I will continue to put on ABC and mark our calendars every year it’s on. I have a lot of snacks on hand for the four-hour time period as well. :)

The Sound of Music was my late DH's favorite movie! We watched it every year at Thanksgiving as the beginning of the Christmas season. When we traveled around Europe one time, we visited a couple sites in Austria where the movie was filmed. On our 10th wedding anniversary we stayed in the Trapp Family Lodge in Stowe VT. Rosemary the youngest daughter, I think Maria's and the Cap., lived there (this was in -94)and gave talks in the evening and hosted singalongs.

Maria, the Captain and 6 of their children are all buried in the family plot  on the grounds. It was awesome and hubby just loved it!  That was our last big trip before his illnesses began.

[shapeshifter]

Is there a better thread for me to share this? 
For too many HP printers (I know Epson is better) over too many decades, when I replace the ink that is "out" (either black cartridge or color cartridge) the printer then refuses to print until I replace the other.
And they run about $25 each! 
Well.
Now I know why I've survived so many mishaps in my life. 
It is to share with anyone else who needs to know this: 
Pop out the other cartridge that it's telling you to replace that was just fine and dandy before you replaced the empty one, and then pop that perfectly fine cartridge right back in. 

[Dimity]

This is my life right now between my own kids and my nieces and nephews.  All of whom, apparently, are unaware that things that happened 30 years ago do not seem all that long ago to me!

 

 

Edited December 6 by Dimity

[shapeshifter]

13 minutes ago, Dimity said:

This is my life right now between my own kids and my nieces and nephews.  All of whom, apparently, are unaware that things that happened 30 years ago do not seem all that long ago to me!

Like when my always-opinionated middle daughter was insisting the Vietnam War was “The Boomers” fault?

[Dimity]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Like when my always-opinionated middle daughter was insisting the Vietnam War was “The Boomers” fault?

Speaking as someone who knew people who lost loved ones in that war she's got to be freaking kidding me.

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Like when my always-opinionated middle daughter was insisting the Vietnam War was “The Boomers” fault?

How was it The Boomers' fault?  It's not like they started it.  I used to blame Boomers for the casualization of society and why GenX and Millennials have horrible manners.  But we're pretty polite compared to younger people (i.e. entrance texting girl I mentioned last week...she looked GenZ)