S03.E08: Part Eight - Surrender

[paigow]

25 minutes ago, Sandman said:

Also a true observation. The Christopher Nolan of it all is getting to me. 

Bane has a more compelling backstory than Jack

[Emily Thrace]

On 4/6/2023 at 4:10 PM, paigow said:

Irumodic Syndrome was a pre-existing condition before assimilation. Borg implants are irrelevant. 

It's possible there is something different about Picards brain that he passed to Jack. Maybe Borg made Picard into Locutus rather than a generic drone because there is something unique about his brain and how it works. I also wouldn't be shocked if assimilation alters the genome it's an extreme process. (I also wonder if someone shouldn't let B'lanna and Miral know as well if that is the case). I do wonder if that might have something to do with Jack's abilities.

[Sandman]

57 minutes ago, paigow said:

Bane has a more compelling backstory than Jack

Perhaps so, but it’s Nolan’s penchant for sledgehammer-y sound design and musical cues that still gives me nightmares. And gas. 

[Affogato]

15 hours ago, paigow said:

Jack has already remote controlled the brain and body of several Titan Crew... So unless it was only possible because they each had Irumodic Syndrome, spreading the disease as a means of enslavement makes no sense.

I think not enslavement but occupation. I mean basically enslavement but longer term. 
The federation can counter by all becoming artificial like Picard is now. It is a maguffin. I guess we will find out. 

[chaifan]

On 4/8/2023 at 3:37 PM, ML89 said:

Odds on Shaw continuing to call Seven as Hansen turning out to be pivotal to the finale somehow?

I thought this, too.  It seems to be the Chekhov's gun of this show.  My guess is that Shaw gets separated, gets back to the group, calls Seven "Commander Seven" or "Seven of Nine", and she knows he's a changling, kills him, saves the day. 

 

Edited to add:  Or, a really funny twist would be to find out in the finale, that this Shaw has been a Changeling all along.  They rescue the real Shaw and he's all "what do you mean he refused to call you Seven?  What an asshole!  I can't believe you thought that was the real me!"  😁  In that case, I'd really want a Seven/Shaw spinoff series!

Edited April 10, 2023 by chaifan

[MissLucas]

I think the reason for Shaw's asshattery is really simple - he's channelling his inner 10 year old - he really likes her but since she's a girl ex-Borg, he needs to antagonize her as much as he can.

[paigow]

4 hours ago, chaifan said:

My guess is that Shaw gets separated, gets back to the group, calls Seven "Commander Seven" or "Seven of Nine", and she knows he's a changling, kills him, saves the day.

Fake!Laforge guessed Hansen and died. Fake!Shaw would likely do the same, thus passing the first test....

[Prevailing Wind]

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

I think the reason for Shaw's asshattery is really simple - he's channelling his inner 10 year old - he really likes her but since she's a girl ex-Borg, he needs to antagonize her as much as he can.

Behind the Red Door = infestation of cooties.

[Joimiaroxeu]

The whole time Will and Deanna were talking I kept waiting for her to say something that he would know was a mistake. I still don't believe it's her and not a Changeling.

Worf speaks the truth. One's personal space is indeed a right.

So Lore was simply envious of Data's life? That's sad.

Bye, Lore! Guess he wasn't a cat person. 😼

Quote

Please tell me that Deanna was joking about the "good in bed, bad at pizza" quip.

Yeah, I recoiled at that line because it meant she was joking about being sexually assaulted.

Quote

put Pedro Pascal with Grogu behind that door

That might be what it takes to save this season.

[tv-talk]

On 4/6/2023 at 5:29 PM, greekmom said:

I just can't with Captain Douchebag and Seven.  At this point I do think he secretly lusts after her

I mean, tbf, who doesnt lust after 7?

On 4/7/2023 at 7:53 AM, chaifan said:

Though I will say, the other half decent thing was Worf's comment about almost sending everyone at the table the lopped off heads of his adversaries.  

Absolutely hilarious! Worf has been great in this show, has the very best lines and his deadpan delivery is pitch perfect. Love it.

I though this was a great episode, have been longing for Data to be back and we finally get it after all these years. The way he turned Lor into himself rather than "killing" him was well done too- they ARE brothers afterall. And I enjoyed how instantly and easily Data defeated the Changelings, pretty much what you'd expect.

My quibble with this ep is portraying Vadik as such a purely evil, ruined entity- but than having her be too soft when confronted with Jack. She would have started vaporizing crew members one by one when Jack tried to force her hand- instead she basically did nothing and we saw the result. "Fucking solids" was an all-time great line tho!

[Prevailing Wind]

3 hours ago, tv-talk said:

"Fucking solids" was an all-time great line tho!

The next time somebody posts on FB about some turd abusing an animal, I'm gonna use it.  "Fucking solids."  Bwaahahahahaha

 

[Sandman]

On 4/8/2023 at 8:09 PM, Cthulhudrew said:

And why in the name of heck would they have an emergency evacuation door on the bridge? Dumb.

I was thinking that, given how often the saucer sections of starships get separated, and how often starships seem to crash nowadays (though maybe not in TNG's regular timeline), an escape hatch on the bridge seemed kind of sensible.

But then, I'm still laughing over the idea upthread that the "ancient, weak voice" behind the red door is going to turn out to be Keith Richards.

[Ottis]

On 4/6/2023 at 8:04 AM, Francie said:

I read somewhere that the budget for this season was $100 million. It's a shame no one thought to use some of that money to hire real writers. 

It feels like the last episode will end on someone saying, "Family - that's what it's all about," and the cast will hold hands and bow.

Data/Lore sounds like Nic Cage. I would love to hear the New Data say, "I'm going to steal the Declaration of Independence."

This was the prior ep, but I don't but that Picard and Crusher would throw away their ethics that way (to shoot the captured Vadic). I thought they were going to let her go. I do believe Section 31 would experiment on Changelings, though the way they did it was pretty lax.

On 4/6/2023 at 9:24 PM, Cattoy said:

I was going to say a decent editor could have cut this down to 20 minutes, then I realized a decent editor could have cut this whole season down to 20 minutes.

At least Picard (the show) is consistent. That was true for season 2 as well.

On 4/6/2023 at 8:41 PM, marinw said:

Loved loved loved the Riker and Troi scenes.

The warmth between Riker and Troi I appreciated, all the mooning over their lost kid, whose existence I don't remember, really dragged. And Worf shows up on the Shrike and escapes the crew and its capabilities by himself because ...?

On 4/6/2023 at 7:16 PM, thuganomics85 said:

So, they drop the barrier that was blocking Data and Lore inside the body's mind, and hope they would fight it out and Data wins.  Instead, Data "surrenders" and basically gives Lore his memories, but that in turn actually basically destroys Lore instead and now Data is Data.

It would have made more sense to me that they appeal to Lore to help them in exchange for his freedom afterward, since once Vadic won Lore would likely be out a ship. That also would have added tension as we would never quite be sure what Lore was doing. The weird dream place where Data and Lore "talked" reminded me of Teletubby land.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Ottis

[paigow]

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

Data/Lore sounds like Nic Cage. I would love to hear the New Data say, "I'm going to steal the Declaration of Independence."

I drive a Volvo... a beige one

Cyrus, this is your barbecue and it tastes good...

[chaifan]

16 hours ago, Sandman said:

I was thinking that, given how often the saucer sections of starships get separated, and how often starships seem to crash nowadays (though maybe not in TNG's regular timeline), an escape hatch on the bridge seemed kind of sensible.

It only is sensible if there are accompanying space suits for all bridge personnel readily available.  And even then, where are you escaping to?  Floating around in space?

It would actually make more sense if the entire bridge turned into a little self enclosed space ship/shuttle/escape pod.

 

[Prevailing Wind]

17 hours ago, Ottis said:

And Worf shows up on the Shrike and escapes the crew and its capabilities by himself because ...?

Because he's Worf.  You need more explanation than that?  LOL

[Ottis]

56 minutes ago, Prevailing Wind said:

Because he's Worf.  You need more explanation than that?  LOL

Well if that is true, they could have just sent Worf alone and saved everyone else a lot of bother! Send Raffi, too, may as well. 

[Prevailing Wind]

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

Well if that is true, they could have just sent Worf alone and saved everyone else a lot of bother! Send Raffi, too, may as well. 

Might have been a better show.

[Sandman]

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

Well if that is true, they could have just sent Worf alone and saved everyone else a lot of bother! Send Raffi, too, may as well. 

Star Trek: Worf-Sensei and Raffaella.

I've heard (and watched) worse concepts for a show.

20 hours ago, Ottis said:

This was the prior ep, but I don't but that Picard and Crusher would throw away their ethics that way (to shoot the captured Vadic).

Once Vadic was no longer restrained and was actively attacking them, they were arguably acting in self-defense.

[Ottis]

1 hour ago, Sandman said:

Star Trek: Worf-Sensei and Raffaella.

I've heard (and watched) worse concepts for a show.

Once Vadic was no longer restrained and was actively attacking them, they were arguably acting in self-defense.

But they decided to kill her while she was restrained. That was the point of the discussion between Picard and Crusher.

[tv-talk]

22 hours ago, Ottis said:

And Worf shows up on the Shrike and escapes the crew and its capabilities by himself because ...?

Because he's Worf.

4 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

Because he's Worf.  You need more explanation than that?  LOL

Ha! Didnt see this.

[starri]

On 4/11/2023 at 9:02 PM, Sandman said:

an escape hatch on the bridge seemed kind of sensible.

We saw that was a thing as far back as the second episode of TNG. 

[tennisgurl]

I don't even care if its nostalgia trap, I loved seeing Spot again. Gone but not furrgotten. As much as I like Data I wish they had just kept him dead for real, his ending in the first season of Picard was perfectly fine, you can only kill off and resurrect any character so many times before it becomes stupid. 

The Riker and Troi talk was really well done, and then Worf showing up to save the day.

If people back in the day thought that Wesley was an annoying super special the show needlessly revolved around and was annoyingly awesome, they should have just waited until we met his brother...

Edited April 18, 2023 by tennisgurl

[Daltrey]

On 4/6/2023 at 7:31 AM, dwmarch said:

I'm a little sad that they had Vadic promise to "execute" but not follow that up with "every MF last one of you" although I thought "fucking solids!" was hilarious.

Her pause after the word execute was just enough to make me think the same thing!🤣🤣🤣🤣

[millennium]

On 4/6/2023 at 10:56 AM, Peace 47 said:

I have found Shaw to be an amusing asshole, with the thought/ hope that he was going to display some growth (especially after he kind of apologized for his Borg rant and seemed to realize how out of line he was).  But his refusal to call Seven by her name is really getting ridiculous.

He's probably not big on pronouns either.

The loathsome being behind the red door:

Edited April 29, 2023 by millennium