Going Out With a Whimper: Season 7 Discussion

[the-grey-lady]

8 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Startlingly, the only original couple the show seems to have given up is Betty and Jughead.

Not only has the show given up on them, they seem determined to pretend they never existed in the first place.

[Affogato]

16 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

And here I was thinking the Riverdale writers were just being wacky with the frog pregnancy test. The more you know.

 

While it's great that Kevin is back out of the closet, I'm not totally thrilled with the speed it happened or how it happened. I think I would have preferred to see the scene where Clay comforts Kevin after Betty breaks up with him, then hearing Kevin tell Betty about it. I also don't feel Kevin would go from being deeply closeted, crying over being dumped and then dancing publicly with a man in a venue that is exactly a secret gay club which increases the chance of being seen. I will admit I thought Betty telling Kevin that their relationship wasn't a waste time was sweet, but I was also expecting the writers to have a better coming out moment for Kevin than what they delivered.

 

Actually this show has shown a good, solid attention to detail, although I think people lose track of it when it is mixed in with the 'crazy'.

I assume they have ground to cover and that there will be more of Kevin's story, too. Yes, I was surprised that Kevin was dancing with Clay in public that soon, but in general Betty is really doing well with this. Her mother, another story.

[thuganomics85]

So, Archie and Cheryl really didn't hook-up after-all but she was just saying that in order to try and appease her family so that wouldn't know how she really felt/her sexual orientation.  But, naturally, things escalate to the point where both the Blossoms and even Mary decided that Archie and Cheryl must wed now in order to save face.  Yeah, normally I'd kind of laugh at that but I have a feeling that probably happened a lot in the 50s, if two teens were caught having sex before marriage.  Show might actually be realistic for once.  I'm glad they aren't going through with it, but I actually kind of dug the Archie/Cheryl scenes.  We don't see just those two that often, but I always remembered enjoying K.J. Apa and  Madelaine Petsch's rapport in the past and I thought they did some good work here as well.

The stuff with Kevin is a bit rushed and exaggerated, but I guess it would be foolishly of me to think this show could really explore what it would be like to be gay at that time and not really dive into the obstacles and how others would act.  Because it does seem like they're just going down the "All of the characters who are already villains are big old homophobes", while the leads seem to be cool with it.  Realistically, I would think that at least one or two of the main characters wouldn't have been cool with it during this time.  Maybe not full-fledge violent bigots but probably be disgusted by the idea of two guys being in love.  Again though, that would be a lot for this show to pull off, so maybe it's best they don't try.

Jughead and Veronica share their first kiss, because I really do think they want to have every kind of pairing here that they can (I'm telling y'all, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they tried an Archie/Jughead before all of this is said and done!)  Not feeling the romantic aspect, but I continue to like them as a sleuthing team.

Starting to think Alice might be the killer after-all.  Or will clearly do something nefarious.

Frank (and a bitching stache) are here and seems like he's going to be a dick as well.

Continue to be surprised over thinking this is probably some of the show's best work yet in quite some time.  Who knew getting zapped back into time would end up being what the show needed?  Hope they keep it up.

[Affogato]

14 hours ago, secnarf said:

The storylines with Cheryl and Kevin are making me kind of uncomfortable - it's uncomfortable to watch them be gay in the 1950s. But it also is difficult to watch because they cannot air a show with their main characters being homophobic in a way that would have been seen as normal at the time, and so they are far more supportive and open than I would think is realistic. This is a small town that likely wouldn't have had a substantial underground LGBTQ scene. They also had Clifford Blossom specifically mention Joe McCarthy; it was in the context of the red scare, but the episode was tip toeing along the edge of the lavender scare, and I wonder if the writers used the former as a bit of a surrogate for the latter. They seem to be positioning the characters so that their 'villains' are homophobic and their 'heroes' are not, but IMO that is a misrepresentation of life for LGBTQ people in the 1950s. And sure, it's fiction, but I don't know the purpose it serves other than they wrote themselves into a bit of a corner as they can't have these characters suddenly be straight, and they also can't have their main characters acting homophobic.

That's all I got from this episode, really.

My honest belief is homophobia and transphobia is pretty common in this day and age as well. I also suspect that lucky people in this day and age and in the '50s would find the support they need somewhere. Kevin is luckier in the '50s, finding Clay and with Betty's unexpected and rather sweet support, than he was in modern times. (Yes, Betty was always ok with it, but in the fifties her reaction is stellar). Still, they have indicated a wide range of responses from the fairly small group of people we know in the town, and I'm sure there will be more reactions to be seen.

Or, to reshuffle, to the kids dealing with their teenage issues, the heroes in their lives are the allies, and those who are not, are the villains. So has it always been, and so it is today.

I don't know how small a town it is, and I'm not sure there is any way to tell. It has an independent fire and police department and some sort of government and a fully functioning high school, a good and bad side, etc., so not that small. At one point it supported Fred's construction company (indicating there was a market for construction). Hiram thought there was a worker base for his prison and there is a big fancy hotel for Veronica to live in.  There is room in this town for a club where the gay people congregate covertly.

[Affogato]

I see this show has unfolded more like a comic book, or series of comic books, than it has like a CW show. So, even though it is handled so it seems like the story continues, it reboots the characters and relationships. I like Veronica and Jughead working together, this is the only time I've found Cheryl less than irritating, and everyone (apparently) needs a Toni in their lives, to the point where I wonder if she is another guardian angel.

[tennisgurl]

I don't really get the Veronica and Jughead hookup and I am rather annoyed by it. I really liked them solving a mystery together and exploring their dynamic as friends, they have always been the core four pairing that has had the least amount of screen time, I wish they could have been paired off but as friends not as another hookup. They do actually have a lot in common, they're the drama llamas to Betty and Archie's seemingly wholesome boy and girl next door, but of course this show has to turn it into yet another round of the dating dance. 

If they were randomly going to hook anyone up, I almost thought it would be Betty/Toni, and I would honestly be alright with that. I'm so over Cheryl and Toni, Cheryl is a toxic person (even if the 50s version of her is less bad than her usual self) and their relationship is massively dysfunctional. 

Its always so weird when the show brings up actual historical events like the Red Scare, Riverdale seems to live in its own weird little world all on its own so every time we get a reference to the rest of the world it feels like you've stepped through the looking glass. Like when Katy Keene was on and every time anyone mentioned the batshit crazy things happening in Riverdale everyone in the somewhat normal New York looked utterly baffled. 

The cast is clearly enjoying throwing out all of the 50s lingo, they also seem to be getting more used to the 50s style of clothes. Its hard to say whether or not this is actually the show trying to be accurate to the 50s or if its some weird alternate universe pocket dimension or they were are in the past so its hard to tell how accurate they are trying to be. 

The Blossoms obsession with red hair is one of my favorite creepy things about them, I loved Mary's weirded out expression when Penelope was going on about them both having red hair. 

I liked this episode a little less than the last few, but I am still having a lot of fun in this season.

Edited April 21, 2023 by tennisgurl

[rmontro]

20 hours ago, secnarf said:

The storylines with Cheryl and Kevin are making me kind of uncomfortable - it's uncomfortable to watch them be gay in the 1950s. But it also is difficult to watch because they cannot air a show with their main characters being homophobic in a way that would have been seen as normal at the time, and so they are far more supportive and open than I would think is realistic. \

I don't think Betty's reaction to Kevin was unrealistic.  It's true that homosexuals were more "in the closet" back in the day, but I don't necessarily think that meant everyone despised them.  I grew up in the '60s, which was admittedly not the '50s, but things were still very much more closeted.  I recall some kids admitting that they were gay, and the usual response was surprise, but they were still considered friends.  In fact, the strange thing I recall is that the people who were most abusive toward gay people, the ones who called them names, harassed them, or even would want to go beat them up, turned out to be homosexuals themselves.  Sort of like in American Beauty, i guess it was a self-hatred or self-guilt type of thing.  But the average person was just too busy with their own life to fret too much about someone else's inclinations.  

 

[SourK]

22 hours ago, secnarf said:

The storylines with Cheryl and Kevin are making me kind of uncomfortable - it's uncomfortable to watch them be gay in the 1950s. But it also is difficult to watch because they cannot air a show with their main characters being homophobic in a way that would have been seen as normal at the time, and so they are far more supportive and open than I would think is realistic.

I've had similar thoughts, and I feel conflicted about it. I think the show is trying to make Archie and Betty role models, and show what good people should/would do in all of these situations, as if their goodness is so strong that it transcends whatever culture they find themselves in. And that would be a touching idea, if they had been remotely good in the previous seasons instead of a couple of violent, self-involved weirdos. Like, imagine if they had been characterized consistently as pillars of the community, and we were just seeing what that looked like in lots of different settings. That would be a cool show.

But, on this show, I feel like sending the action to the 50s was an aesthetic choice and the social/cultural stuff coming up is mostly an obstacle the show is trying to navigate rather than something it wants to engage with.

But also, as you've said, I don't think Riverdale is really equipped to explore sensitive, nuanced issues, so maybe it's better they don't try.

[Simba122504]

I stopped watching this series early S2, but decided to return for the final season after reading some early reviews. Queer people in the '50s married and had children because they had no other choice and many of them believed their feelings were unnatural because that's what the bible says. Whatever queer relations they did have was kept a secret. Nobody knew not even their spouses. And if their spouses did find out, it was still kept a secret. Outside of celebrities,  divorces rarely happened. Many people fell in line. Liberal people were not very popular. Movies,  TV and Music rarely stepped out of line. Kevin and Cheryl would have fallen in line. The Jughead and Veronica pairing is interesting. I stopped watching five seasons ago,  so I'm not emotionally attached to any of the ships. 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Simba122504

[AnimeMania]

S07.E05: Chapter One Hundred and Twenty-Two: Tales in a Jugular Vein

CORRUPTING THE YOUTH OF AMERICA — Principal Featherhead (guest star William MacDonald) takes aim at the negative influence comic books have over kids, just as Jughead (Cole Sprouse) is tasked by Pep Comics to write four tales for a new issue. 

Premiere Date: Wednesday, April 26, 2023    9pm    CW 

[Bill1978]

*checks calendar to confirm it is April and not October*

So, Riverdale does Treehouse of Horror. Which basically makes the episode pointless and easily skippable. Except for the bookends which reveal the breakup of Jughead and Veronica after one episode and that some old white men have an obsession with banning comic books.

I guess 23 episodes is too much for these writers, so they have to fill the quota with these disposable episodes. While I guess it's fun to write and fun to act, I didn't find it enjoyable to watch. It just reminded me of why I gave up on Riverdale in the first place.

[SourK]

I actually didn't mind 122. I think Roberto is more of a horror anthology person -- or at least his shows work better that way.

I do think it's a little bit having-your-cake-and-eating-it to tell a bunch of sexist horror stories and then have Veronica say, "Well, that's sexist." But I liked the aesthetic and the weird narrator and stuff.

[Chicago Redshirt]

As a huge fan of Creepshow and Tales from the Crypt, I actually enjoyed unabashedly the latest episode more than I have enjoyed a Riverdale episode for a while.

That said, it now seems like the show is going to veer into "comic books are bad, m'kay?" territory, featuring a parallel to a psychiatrist who campaigned in the 50s against the supposed evils of comics who has a similar name to the guy in this episode. That seems like it's going to have high potential for being uninteresting and preaching to the choir. The entire audience is watching a tv show based on a 50s comic book, so we all (presumably) believe that we and our country's children aren't being turned into deviant criminal perverts because of comic books. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

On 4/21/2023 at 10:16 AM, the-grey-lady said:

Not only has the show given up on them, they seem determined to pretend they never existed in the first place.

Silly question, but was their breakup/ we pretend it never happened because the actors had a bad breakup of some kind?

The title of this thread is so apt:  Going out with a wimper.  I'm still not sure what this season is about, if anything.

[thuganomics85]

Riverdale puts a pause on the story to do its own take of Tales from the Crypt, I see.  Fillerish for sure, but I still found it better than a lot of similar episodes from previous seasons.  The references and homages at least felt competently done enough in a way that I can buy there was some real love for them here.

I'll admit that I didn't notice Jughead's sexism initially because I was too busy noticing that he had Archie die in three of the four stories, and was wondering if there was some unresolved issues there.  But after Veronica mentioned it, yeah, it is noticeable that he either had his women characters shallow and conceited, or manipulative to damn near psychotic at the end.  True, as he said, his male characters didn't come off looking good either, but there was a more noticeable edge to the way the women characters came off here.  Not sure if they are going to dive more into this, or is this just a way to put a pause (or break-up) on Jughead and Veronica being a thing.

Still enjoying how overtly evil Mayor Blossom, Dr. Werthers, and Principal Featherhead are.  It's like they're the Axis of Evil Old Guys here to send this generation back to the Dark Ages!

The cast continues to be generally having fun here, although I'll give an extra star to K.J. Apa tonight, because I thought he did a pretty good job of having Archie act like he normally does on the surface, but seeing a more selfish, uncaring, and arrogant underneath that all in the stories.  Makes me think he might should try his hand on some more villainous-type roles going forward. 

Nana Rose is always a delight!

[rmontro]

This would have worked better as a Halloween show, but it was fun nonetheless.  It's amazing to see how a show like this can revitalize itself in its seventh season. 

I guess that's the end of the Veronica/Jughead pairing.  I've got to admit I never really bought them as a couple, but it was still a little sad to see them end it so quickly, they had barely started to explore it.  Veronica dumping Jughead for being misogynist didn't seem quite right either.  His stories aside, I don't recall seeing him exhibit such tendencies, so it seems like a bum rap.  As he put it, in Veronica's eyes, now he's just a "Melvin who writes comic books".

Also, it's hard to believe Betty as a "plain Jane" in any reality.

[Simba122504]

On 4/27/2023 at 4:40 AM, Bill1978 said:

*checks calendar to confirm it is April and not October*

So, Riverdale does Treehouse of Horror. Which basically makes the episode pointless and easily skippable. Except for the bookends which reveal the breakup of Jughead and Veronica after one episode and that some old white men have an obsession with banning comic books.

I guess 23 episodes is too much for these writers, so they have to fill the quota with these disposable episodes. While I guess it's fun to write and fun to act, I didn't find it enjoyable to watch. It just reminded me of why I gave up on Riverdale in the first place.

It's 20 episodes and these long ass seasons on broadcast television is notorious for filler. I actually liked this one because it was as a homage to the horror comics that birthed TFTC and CS. Everything else is reminding me why I left 6 seasons ago, but I actually enjoyed this because I love stuff like this. I'll give them this.  The comic book banning is very real. It happened. Old people always blame entertainment for "corrupting" the youth and actually go all the way to Washington to fight it. 

Edited April 29, 2023 by Simba122504

[Affogato]

5 hours ago, Simba122504 said:

It's 20 episodes and these long ass seasons on broadcast television is notorious for filler. I actually liked this one because it was as an homage to the horror comics that birthed TFTC and CS. Everything else is reminding me why I left 6 seasons ago, but I actually enjoyed this because I love stuff like this. I'll give them this.  The comic book banning is very real. It happened. Old people always blame entertainment for "corrupting" the youth and actually go all the way to Washington to fight it. 

sometimes it is filler, sometimes it is character development or seems oddly irrelevant, but foreshadows something that happens later in the series. When the twenty episode season takes six years to produce it is harder for it to actually include those in the show and harder for viewers to recognise them. More and more the show that happens in the third eight episode season looks like a completely different show from the first eight episode season, although the characters are relatively static and the adventures are episodic.

Robert Aguirre-Sacasa is the 'show runner' for the comics as well as for the show, and I think this episode is actually what the show is about, really. It is a meta show about comics and storytelling and changing cultural mores and clashes and the responses of society to the medium. Which is what the characters are.  It isn't Dawson's Creek and the shipping of characters will change frequently, as they did in the comics, and probably not come to anything meaningful.

I don't think this is filler. I think it is what the show is about.

[the-grey-lady]

13 hours ago, rmontro said:

His stories aside, I don't recall seeing him exhibit such tendencies

Comics Jughead does, so maybe that's the characterization they were using? None of the characters feel like they did for the last six years.

I personally won't miss the Jughead/Veronica "relationship," aka a plot device you could see from space.

[Simba122504]

5 hours ago, Affogato said:

sometimes it is filler, sometimes it is character development or seems oddly irrelevant, but foreshadows something that happens later in the series. When the twenty episode season takes six years to produce it is harder for it to actually include those in the show and harder for viewers to recognise them. More and more the show that happens in the third eight episode season looks like a completely different show from the first eight episode season, although the characters are relatively static and the adventures are episodic.

Robert Aguirre-Sacasa is the 'show runner' for the comics as well as for the show, and I think this episode is actually what the show is about, really. It is a meta show about comics and storytelling and changing cultural mores and clashes and the responses of society to the medium. Which is what the characters are.  It isn't Dawson's Creek and the shipping of characters will change frequently, as they did in the comics, and probably not come to anything meaningful.

I don't think this is filler. I think it is what the show is about.

It technically is a filler episode since it is its own thing and not connected to the rest of the season. Excluding the subplot about trying to ban comic books. AU episodes are the only type of filler I enjoy. This is definitely an episode I would watch again. I might even buy it. 

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, Simba122504 said:

It technically is a filler episode since it is its own thing and not connected to the rest of the season. Excluding the subplot about trying to ban comic books. AU episodes are the only type of filler I enjoy. This is definitely an episode I would watch again. I might even buy it. 

Yes. I think the comic book thread is the main thread if the story. 

[Dobian]

Just catching up.

Episode 4

Hello Veronijug.

What a shift for Cheryl this season, going from mean girl to oppressed and identity-confused.  Easily the character that has changed the most this season.

Honorable mention to Archie, who perfectly captures that 1950s era “golly gee whiz” young male stereotype.

Episode 5

What a fun episode!  Great spin on Creepshow, and every story was a kick.

The only knock was Veronica’s rather absurd reaction at the end, saying Jughead’s stories demonized females.  The first story didn’t even have a female in the plot, and in the last story it was Archie who was the Lothario who got what he deserved.  Seemed to me more a story of female empowerment lol.

Farewell Veronijug

Edited April 29, 2023 by Dobian

[opus]

On 4/27/2023 at 12:52 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

featuring a parallel to a psychiatrist who campaigned in the 50s against the supposed evils of comics who has a similar name to the guy in this episode.

And what was the show’s version? Slaughter Of The Innocent? In real life it was (for those that don’t know) Seduction.

 

 

[rmontro]

5 hours ago, the-grey-lady said:

Comics Jughead does, so maybe that's the characterization they were using? None of the characters feel like they did for the last six years.

Interesting, I wasn't aware Jughead was a misogynist in the comics.  I had been thinking that this season they seem to have made an effort to try to get closer to the source material than past Riverdale seasons.  I'm not that familiar with the more recent comics though, so that is something of a guess.  In any case, whatever they're doing seems to be working.

 

48 minutes ago, Dobian said:

The only knock was Veronica’s rather absurd reaction at the end, saying Jughead’s stories demonized females.  The first story didn’t even have a female in the plot, and in the last story it was Archie who was the Lothario who got what he deserved.  Seemed to me more a story of female empowerment lol.

That was my impression, seemed to me more like female empowerment than demonization.  They were horror stories, after all.  And it wasn't the girls who stuffed Dilton in the locker.  I thought Veronica's response was unreasonable.  You could just as easily say that Jughead's point was that males were slaves to their sex drive.

[the-grey-lady]

13 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Interesting, I wasn't aware Jughead was a misogynist in the comics. 

From what I remember, it's not terrible, sort of hints that Jughead dislikes women? I could be misremembering. It definitely seems like they're leaning into the characters' comic personalities this season.

[Dobian]

2 hours ago, opus said:

And what was the show’s version? Slaughter Of The Innocent? In real life it was (for those that don’t know) Seduction.

 

 

Ahhhh so that’s where they got the name Dr. Werthers from!

Edited April 30, 2023 by Dobian

[rmontro]

4 hours ago, the-grey-lady said:

From what I remember, it's not terrible, sort of hints that Jughead dislikes women? I could be misremembering.

Some have said Jughead is asexual in the comics, but that doesn't seem to be the case on the show.  He does appear to be less hormone driven than say, Archie.

[the-grey-lady]

1 minute ago, rmontro said:

Some have said Jughead is asexual in the comics, but that doesn't seem to be the case on the show.  He does appear to be less hormone driven than say, Archie.

I believe (I'm really digging into my knowledge of the comics here), Jughead is officially asexual in one iteration, and he can be seen as asexual in others (like it's not stated explicitly, but the implication is there), and then he dates some in others. I would say he's definitely less hormone driven than Archie in every iteration ever.

[Dobian]

My only gripe with this final season is I wish they would bring Hiram back for a proper send-off.  Having Veronica kill him offscreen was so lame and undeserved (and a victory that felt totally unearned by Veronica since it was, you know, offscreen).  He was the show's best villain.  Of course, they could easily bring him back to life in the 1950s alternate timeline.  I know Mark Consuelos left the show to be with his family, but it would be great to have Hiram return for just a couple of episodes to give him closure.

[the-grey-lady]

1 hour ago, Dobian said:

My only gripe with this final season is I wish they would bring Hiram back for a proper send-off.  Having Veronica kill him offscreen was so lame and undeserved (and a victory that felt totally unearned by Veronica since it was, you know, offscreen).  He was the show's best villain.  Of course, they could easily bring him back to life in the 1950s alternate timeline.  I know Mark Consuelos left the show to be with his family, but it would be great to have Hiram return for just a couple of episodes to give him closure.

Spoiler

He will be back for at least one episode.

 

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, the-grey-lady said:

  Hide contents

He will be back for at least one episode.

 

Of course. He’s this universe’s ricky ricardo

[tennisgurl]

This is a bit of a weird time to take a break from the main story for a Tales from the Crypt episode, but this show does love its creepy story anthologies and usually does a good job with them, so I don't really mind. Roberto should maybe look into doing more anthology horror stories in the future, he's much better at doing these small weird stories instead of actually trying to build a love running narrative and characters who make sense. I also appreciate how much they committed to the Tales from the Crypt vibe with the bright colors, strange camera angles, the Crypt Keeper, and the comic book font. It very much had that old school horror comic kind of vibe. I think the Cheryl one was my favorite, mainly because I do so love Nana Rose getting her gothic horror on. 

I think Veronica was really reaching calling Jughead's stories sexist. As he said, guys don't come off all that well either, and these are horror stories. Most protagonists in horror anthologies tend to be pretty lousy people or at least they have some fatal flaw that gets them in the end, that's just the nature of the genre. If anything, guys came off even worse, at least most of the female characters were somewhat sympathetic. I guess its just a reason for Jughead and Veronica to split up, leaving just as fast as it got here. 

Even worse than serial killers, cults, drugs, and the actual goddamn devil, is a trio of old white guys sitting around in poorly lit rooms trying to censor horror comics!

[AnimeMania]

S07.E06: Chapter One Hundred and Twenty-Three: Peep Show

GETTING ARCHIE IN LINE — At her wits end over Archie’s (KJ Apa) recent actions, Mary (guest star Molly Ringwald) turns to Uncle Frank (guest star Ryan Robbins) to get him back on track. Meanwhile, Betty (Lili Reinhart) asks Veronica (Camila Mendes) for help understanding her sexuality. Elsewhere, Jughead (Cole Sprouse) takes action after he discovers plagiarism taking place at Pep Comics, and Cheryl (Madelaine Petsch) and Toni’s (Vanessa Morgan) budding attraction catches the attention of some River Vixens. 

Premiere Date: Wednesday, May 3, 2023    9pm    CW 

[SourK]

LOL. All of the characters discovered their true, essential selves. Cheryl's gay, Veronica's a pervert, and Archie punches people in the face.

Hands-down, my favourite moment was when Archie told Betty he always goes back to his bedroom at the end of the day, and then Betty was like, "Yeah, I go to my room then, too." The delivery was so hilarious, and the conversation was so weird. It would almost be charming if it weren't so creepy to make 30-year-olds roleplay as teenage virgins.

My second favourite part was when Veronica lured Betty to her apartment to model underwear for her while she drank a mimosa, and then Betty was like, "I feel uncomfortable," and Veronica was like, "OMG, why??"

That said, the one thing I legitimately liked was the dynamic where Betty and Veronica were doing a caper together. That's one thing I miss from the comics.

[memememe76]

I liked this episode. The scene at the locker with Archie and Betty was so funny. KJ killed with the “I am really excited” line.

[thuganomics85]

Ha, of course Veronica's response to be reminding how Romeo & Juliet ends was basically to be all "Well, at least they died after they lost their V-cards, so it's all worth it, bro!"

I've joked before about how it feels at times like reactions on screen aren't coming from the characters but the actors themselves, but in this case, the scene at the lockers really did feel like both K.J. Apa and Lili Reinhart were doing their best to not just start laughing throughout that entire thing.  The dialogue was so hilariously bad and I loved every minute of it.

I know that peeping on neighbors/crushes has been a staple at this point in young romance media, but Veronica and Betty perving on Archie kind of highlights how its considered a lot more problematic now.

This version of Frank is such a dick.  "You need to raise your grades, Archie!  But, while you are at it, you also either need to join the basketball team or be the water boy!  And then once your done with that, you have to have an after-school job!  Sleep!  What sleep?  The man of the house doesn't sleep!  No time for dating either!!  Even if I'm probably that type of guy who will then freak out over you not marrying right out of high school!"  I blame the moustache.

Cheryl and Toni are back on.  Let us see if Cheryl finds a way to mess this up again.  Although, I suspect the real issue will be the return of Evelyn and her meddling ways.

Not sure what the whole point of Jughead's story will be yet.

Highly impressed over how Frank and Hal coordinated their "bursting into their kids room to prevent sexy striptease acts" move.  Coincidence my ass: that takes planning and talent!  Like they got the sense that the TV-14 rating was in jeopardy and they had to act!  

Edited May 8, 2023 by thuganomics85

[rmontro]

Okay, call me stupid, but I had zero idea that Toni was black.  I thought maybe she was vaguely Latina.

Veronica:  "How are you going to get used to wearing lace panties if you don't wear them everyday?".  Fair question, I guess.

 

21 hours ago, SourK said:

Hands-down, my favourite moment was when Archie told Betty he always goes back to his bedroom at the end of the day, and then Betty was like, "Yeah, I go to my room then, too." The delivery was so hilarious, and the conversation was so weird. It would almost be charming if it weren't so creepy to make 30-year-olds roleplay as teenage virgins.

This was the first episode this season that felt a little off to me.  The Cheryl/Toni stuff felt like a retread, and the whole bit with Archie and Betty planning to look at each other from their bedrooms seemed more like a dream sequence than reality.  And of course Archie could see Veronica and Betty ogling him from their window, what did they expect?

[Bill1978]

Glad Cheryl finally admitted to Toni that she is attracted to female because it means the writers can finally drop the storyline of Toni 'helping' Cheryl to come out. There's a difference between subtley letting someone know that it's ok to be who you are and them determining when it's time to speak their truth (e.g. how Clay handled Kevin) and then there is Toni standing at Cheryl's closet trying to drag her out by her limbs while Cheryl holds onto the winter jackets and then letting go and stumbling out of the closet because she was emotionally manipulated into admitting how she felt.  And then Toni decided to out Clay and Kevin to Cheryl. And considering they've been absent for 2 weeks; I doubt Toni asked permission to reveal that side of them to Cheryl. I feel like the writers pick and choose when they want to remember they are stuck in the 50s. And both ga y storylines are evidence they forgot.

Speaking of being stuck in the 1950s, I'm predicting that Jughead's comic book storyline is eventually going to hold the key to transporting them back to the present, assuming that's where they end up by the final episode. Because the writers don't seem to be making any progress with that plot, like how hard is it to even have a random scene of Tabitha doing whatever she is doing to remind the audience that technically that's the point of this season.

So now that they've proven Jughead and Ethel couldn't have killed the Muggses, is that storyline dropped because its more important banning comic books than catching a killer?

And I just don't care about the romantic end game for Archie, Betty and Veronica.

This is the first episode of the season from a plot point of view (I don't count last week's detour as part of the continuum) that I lost interest in. I feel it's a bit early to start spinning the wheel with the story, especially if they are affected by the strike and get their episode count reduced. Does anyone know if the series has finished filming? Or will it be affected by the strike?

But I'll keep going, because next week's attempt at their version of 

Spoiler

Hairspray

is sure to cause major eyerolling from me and possibly some laughs equal to the locker talk that occurred between Archie and Betty this week. I would love to know how many takes that took.

 

[the-grey-lady]

3 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

There's a difference between subtley letting someone know that it's ok to be who you are and them determining when it's time to speak their truth (e.g. how Clay handled Kevin) and then there is Toni standing at Cheryl's closet trying to drag her out by her limbs while Cheryl holds onto the winter jackets and then letting go and stumbling out of the closet because she was emotionally manipulated into admitting how she felt. 

Thank you. That storyline is borderline predatory and really problematic. 

[Simba122504]

On 5/5/2023 at 5:23 PM, rmontro said:

Okay, call me stupid, but I had zero idea that Toni was black.  I thought maybe she was vaguely Latina.

 

This actress is biracial. Also, Latinos can be white, black,  mixed, Asian. So far nothing is happening, this season. It feels like a sitcom.  I'm also tired of Veronica's pop culture references. Her dialogue is terrible. I use to think Chloe (Smallville) and her metaphors were horrific. But I think this one tops the cake. 😄 Nobody talks like that. Her ass should book a game show appearance. *The final scripts for this season were turned in before the writers strike. They will be done with filming in June*

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Simba122504
ETA

[tennisgurl]

This dialogue was even worse than usual, I swear the actors were seconds away from bursting out laughing, especially all of that "sexy" talk. It was all just so awkward, I loved it. This season has been the closest to competent we have had in years, but its good to have the reminder that this is still Riverdale. 

Uncle Frank is possibly even more of a jerk than he is in the regular universe. He has a lot of nerve trying to use Fred's death to manipulate him, plus he's clearly part of the Cabal of Old White Men who are here to ruin Riverdale with their 1950s values that luckily none of our main characters share. I know that this show is not actually trying to be a serious period piece or actually examine the era, but it feels really disingenuous to keep calling attention to the social issues of the time, even bringing up very real things that happened in the real world, without really committing to engaging with how widespread these attitudes were and why they existed. 

Betty and Veronica teaming up was fun, but I wish it was in a less skeavy kind of way. Yeah Veronica, your not catching a killer, your just being creepy. I found a lot of their scenes to be pretty hilarious, watching grown adults trying to write teenage girls talking about sex is worth a cringey laugh. 

Toni is way too pushy towards Cheryl, if she's not ready to come out than she's not ready, Toni shouldn't be pushing her outside her comfort zone just because she has a crush and feels like she's entitled. Its so weird seeing a version of Toni/Sheryl where Toni is the more toxic one. 

This comic plot is so random that I suspect that its going to be a key part in getting out of the 50s world. 

[PositiveBean]

On 4/27/2023 at 10:13 AM, KittenPokerCheater said:

Silly question, but was their breakup/ we pretend it never happened because the actors had a bad breakup of some kind?

Apparently they had a bad breakup but that wasn’t the issue since they were still filming together. Allegedly Cole has had some behavioral issues on and off set. It wasn’t just Lili who unfollowed him on IG, Camila also unfollowed him last year. They follow everyone else so yes that’s strange. He’s been on set and in call sheets the least out of the main cast since 2021 and is often left out of group bts shots. They isolated Jughead with Tabitha but now that Erinn asked to be let out of most of the final season, he’s been filming more with supporting characters and guest stars. There have also been quite a few unflattering stories circling about him. Sorry but 2+2=4. 

I’m enjoying this season. I’m not invested in the ships so it’s been fun seeing different dynamics. They obviously look old to be playing teenagers but to me that adds to the bizarre fun. And if I’m going to ship, I’d love to see Betty/Reggie and Jughead/Ethel. Personally, I think the final episode should pay homage to the comics and show snippets of different ships in different universes. The fan base is/was so ship rabid you can’t possibly please everyone.

Edited May 9, 2023 by PositiveBean

[Bill1978]

16 hours ago, PositiveBean said:

The fan base is/was so ship rabid you can’t possibly please everyone.

Maybe the final scene should be the comet hitting Riverdale and killing everybody. That way no one ends up with anyone and every ship can be disappointed.

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 5/5/2023 at 5:23 PM, rmontro said:

Okay, call me stupid, but I had zero idea that Toni was black.  I thought maybe she was vaguely Latina.

Toni the character was treated as Latina; I think we even had seen or had reference to her abuela (Spanish for grandmother) in the past.

As another poster said, you can be Black and Latina (see Zoe Saldana). The actress who plays Toni is biracial Black/White.

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Toni the character was treated as Latina; I think we even had seen or had reference to her abuela (Spanish for grandmother) in the past.

As another poster said, you can be Black and Latina (see Zoe Saldana). The actress who plays Toni is biracial Black/White.

Yeah, I'm not denying any of that.  But she, or someone on the show, pointed out she was Riverdale's first black cheerleader.  And I just never knew she was black, as I said I thought she was Latina.  But it turns out the actress is not Latina at all, her mom is Scottish and her father is Tanzanian.  You say we've had a reference to her abuela, and that rings a bell to me, I think you're right, and if that's so the show has suggested she is Latina.  

[AnimeMania]

S07.E07: Chapter One Hundred and Twenty-Four: Dirty Dancing

AMERICAN GRANDSTAND — Fearing that Betty (Lili Reinhart) is going down the wrong path, Alice (Madchen Amick) forces her to join the after-school dance show, “American Grandstand.” Meanwhile, Kevin (Casey Cott) is forced by Tom (guest star Martin Cummins) to join the Riverdale High basketball team, and Veronica (Camila Mendes) finds herself cut off by her parents. 

Premiere Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2023    9pm    CW 

[ruby24]

This season is so strange. And not weird in the way that I've gotten used to Riverdale being bizarre, it just seems to bear no real connection to the show I've watched all these years. This 1950's arc is just way too long, imo. 

[the-grey-lady]

1 hour ago, ruby24 said:

it just seems to bear no real connection to the show I've watched all these years.

I don't think it does bear any real connection to the previous six seasons. The characters are all strangers. What a stupid way to end a show.

[thuganomics85]

So, now this version of Tom Keller sucks as well, since he's a big old homophobe who tries to "cure" Kevin by setting him up with a sex worker (who ends up being Twyla, because why not, I guess!)  Man, he use to be one of the better adults on this show!  Being a supportive father more than made up for him kind of sucking at being sheriff!

Really, Alice, you really should have saw that coming.  The more you push and force Betty to be on that dumb Grandstand show, the more she was going to build up resentment and find a way to make you pay for it.  And it's not that hard to do, considering how offended your lot can get.

Veronica's entire subplot really seems to stem from someone in the writer's room really being bummed out over the hit movie theaters have been taking lately.  They must have some investments in AMC stock or something.  Even had them film their own love letter commercial.  Kind of surprised the resisted having Veronica actually say "Heartbreak feels good in a place like this!"

The glimpses we saw of "Grandstand Host" Hal kind of made me almost think Serial Killer Hal is the better option...

They seem to go extra hard on the 50s lingo this go around.  I don't think they missed any!

Looks like Rayberry might be getting taken out by this mysterious milkman as well.  In general, I'm still wondering how Jughead and his whole comic arc is going to play into all of this, because it still feels random compared to the rest of the stories here.

[SourK]

I'm not gonna do it, Riverdale. The pandemic taught me that I don't want to go to the theatre. I want to stream stuff at home in my pyjamas. Having Veronica say the theatre is better has not changed my mind. Also she immediately put herself in front of the camera after saying she didn't want to be in front of the camera. And the theatre guy watched the whole commercial and then was like, "Veronica, the whole time you've been working on this promo, and even after I watched it, I assumed you knew your parents were going to shut the theatre down."

They really went hard with the 50s slang in this one, and I enjoyed that, but the line I enjoyed most was, "Hey Kev, we've been in the same grade since kindergarten." I mean, I have bad social skills so maybe I don't know -- is that how you find something in common?

Finally, I felt weirdly relieved that Betty knew her parents were square.