Going Out With a Whimper: Season 7 Discussion

[Bort]

Lack of interest facilitates the decision to discontinue individual episode topics for this final season. So have at it here for season 7, if anybody cares...

[rmontro]

I love the switch back to the '50s.  Closer to the original feel of the Archie comics.  Some of the cast look kind of funny in their retro styles, Tabitha for instance.  Cheryl just somehow got hotter.

Not sure why the big focus on James Dean.  Archie's mom was being unreasonable expecting Archie not to drive, but I guess her situation was understandable, and they did work out a compromise.  I can't believe they are going to stay with this no one realizing they are from the future, but we'll see.

[AnimeMania]

S07.E01: Chapter One Hundred Eighteen: Don’t Worry Darling 

RIVERDALE 1955 - After coming together to stop Bailey’s comet, the gang find themselves transported back to a simpler time – Riverdale 1955. While Archie (KJ Apa) attempts to impress the new girl Veronica (Camila Mendes), a Hollywood starlet, who has just arrived at Riverdale High, Cheryl (Madelaine Petsch) sees her as a threat and formulates a plan to take her down. Meanwhile, Toni (Vanessa Morgan), Tabitha (Erinn Westbrook) and Betty (Lili Reinhart) take a stand against Principal Featherhead after he stonewalls their attempts to write about the murder of Emmet Till. Finally, Jughead (Cole Sprouse) attempts to convince the gang that they’re from the future.

Premiere Date: Wednesday, March 29, 2023    9pm    CW 

[thuganomics85]

RIP, individual episode threads!  At least the show itself will live on through a season one!

Whelp, I knew we were in for a wild ride as soon as I saw that Emmett Till's tragedy was going to be the focal point of this episode.  A story that is certainly worthy telling; especially since it certainly seems like we've haven't learn enough from this real life injustice; but as usual, it is just so odd seeing a serious topic like this being tackled by a show like, well, Riverdale.  The cast is certainly game and; trying to be generous; the writes might be sincere, but it always ends up just being all over the place on a tonal level.

Anyway, so it sounds like basically the gang's plan last season actually did fail and Bailey's Comet hit Riverdale after-all, but the guardian/angle/whatever in Tabitha's form was able to time-travel the gang back to the 50s in order to hopefully change things in a way that future society will be more adept when it happens again.  But it sounds like it's coming in two years, instead?  Yeah, I don't know.  Also, Jughead initially was the only self-aware one out of the crew, but now she took his memories away, so it's square one for everyone now.

Only thing better than this Veronica being some big Hollywood starlet, is that Hiram and Hermione are apparently staring in this universe's version of an I Love Lucy sitcom!

Looks like Archie/Veronica might be back on the menu as the endgame couple, since this version of Archie barely reacted to Betty and was already head over heels for Veronica (again.)

Where is Reggie?

Fun seeing other familiar faces in the background like Midge (although, she's been recast with Abby Ross, I see), Ethel, and Dilton.  I wonder if the new Clay character might have been a stand-in for Chuck and they weren't able to get him/Jordan Calloway back for whatever reason.

The retro style worked better for some compared to others, but was overall fun.  Agree that Madelaine Petsch came out looking the best.

Can't wait to see how all of this crazy ends for good!

[Bill1978]

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Fun seeing other familiar faces in the background like Midge (although, she's been recast with Abby Ross, I see), Ethel, and Dilton.  I wonder if the new Clay character might have been a stand-in for Chuck and they weren't able to get him/Jordan Calloway back for whatever reason.

I saw Midge and I thought I saw Dilton. But I missed Ethel even though I saw the actress' name in the credits.

I gave up on watching Riverdale reguarly a long while ago - probably mid season 2. But I always watch the first episode of the season and see how long I can last before quitting. Season 4 is the last one I watched in full I think. And this episode makes the final season look like it has potential. I enjoyed it, mainly cause it feels like we are meeting the characters again and its a reset button on removing the over the top plots - even though this season involves a non sensical time travel aspect. And I'm pretty sure Kevin (appreciated the writers having Jughead not saying anything about Kevin not being interested in Betty in the future) is not going to get the ending I hope for him. I'll keep watching until the writers go off the rail and then tune back in for the final episode if that happens.

 

[Affogato]

On 3/31/2023 at 2:23 AM, thuganomics85 said:

RIP, individual episode threads!  At least the show itself will live on through a season one!

Whelp, I knew we were in for a wild ride as soon as I saw that Emmett Till's tragedy was going to be the focal point of this episode.  A story that is certainly worthy telling; especially since it certainly seems like we've haven't learn enough from this real life injustice; but as usual, it is just so odd seeing a serious topic like this being tackled by a show like, well, Riverdale.  The cast is certainly game and; trying to be generous; the writes might be sincere, but it always ends up just being all over the place on a tonal level.

 

Well, look at it this way. 1955 is a white male fantasy of a time when America was great. Women and black people knew their place, jobs were plentiful, cars had huge engines, gas was cheap, we all followed good religious values. Archie comics at one point was licensed to a Christian comic company to run stories illustrating the values of Christianity. I think it is absolutely necessary that, when you take this group back to the fifties (and sixties with MLK death), you do it with a reminder that this was a pretty terrible time in our history and should not be idealized. We also see that Kevin is in the closet, and we know he is gay. I hope there are continuing reminders of some of the issues that would have to come up.

It contrasts with the props, doesn't it? The propshops have such beautiful props from the fifties, shiny and valuable. In the movie "Till" it was distracting that none of the pickups had dust on them, driving on those Mississippi dirt roads. They are so cool, well maintained and expensive, though....

James Dean's death and the Till trial took place at around the same time, so it allows them to tell us where in time our group has landed. That James Dean's death was getting repeated newspaper coverage (driving Archie's Mom to anxiety attacks) indicates the Till trial was not getting coverage, and this is worked into part of the show. I thought this was effective, myself.

I'm sorry Jughead isn't going to keep his memories, though. I liked that. I found this Veronica fairly annoying, but her parents being Lucy and Ricky was pretty funny, and she got some points for pathos at the end, exiled from her family.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Affogato

[One Imaginary Girl]

Initially I was irked a bit that some of the girls were wearing pants at Riverdale High, because back then it would never be allowed. (In my public school in the northeast, we couldn't until the 1969-70 school year, and it was a big, and welcome, deal.) But then Veronica shows up in her way low-cut dress, and I think, well, it's crazy old Riverdale. No rules apply, and that's fine with me. 

[rmontro]

On 4/1/2023 at 11:50 AM, Affogato said:

Archie comics at one point was licensed to a Christian comic company to run stories illustrating the values of Christianity. I think it is absolutely necessary that, when you take this group back to the fifties (and sixties with MLK death), you do it with a reminder that this was a pretty terrible time in our history and should not be idealized.

Our country could use a good injection of Christian values today, we'd be a lot better off.  True, there were problems with racism in the '50s, but that is an example of the times not living up to Christian values.  Every time in history has its issues and is not ideal, including today.  With our political divisions, there is plenty of hate being spouted today.

In any case, I don't think they're trying to idealize the times.  IIRC, guardian angle Tabitha made a point about how she would not be accepted at that time.  They also pointed out that Riverdale was one of the first desegregated schools, making it clear that it was an outlier.

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, rmontro said:

Our country could use a good injection of Christian values today, we'd be a lot better off.  True, there were problems with racism in the '50s, but that is an example of the times not living up to Christian values.  Every time in history has its issues and is not ideal, including today.  With our political divisions, there is plenty of hate being spouted today.

In any case, I don't think they're trying to idealize the times.  IIRC, guardian angle Tabitha made a point about how she would not be accepted at that time.  They also pointed out that Riverdale was one of the first desegregated schools, making it clear that it was an outlier.

My point was that they were trying to not idealize the times. 
 

religion is fine. But the times are not improved by trying to live up to the values if one specific religion. One of the values on what ch our country was theoretically built. 

[rmontro]

41 minutes ago, Affogato said:

My point was that they were trying to not idealize the times. 

Oh, I see.  

Never mind.

[jewel21]

I thought the episode was interesting. I liked seeing our gang in the 50s looking more like their comic book selves, and the music was great. 

[Dobian]

On 4/1/2023 at 8:50 AM, Affogato said:

Well, look at it this way. 1955 is a white male fantasy of a time when America was great. Women and black people knew their place, jobs were plentiful, cars had huge engines, gas was cheap, we all followed good religious values. Archie comics at one point was licensed to a Christian comic company to run stories illustrating the values of Christianity. I think it is absolutely necessary that, when you take this group back to the fifties (and sixties with MLK death), you do it with a reminder that this was a pretty terrible time in our history and should not be idealized. We also see that Kevin is in the closet, and we know he is gay. I hope there are continuing reminders of some of the issues that would have to come up.

It contrasts with the props, doesn't it? The propshops have such beautiful props from the fifties, shiny and valuable. In the movie "Till" it was distracting that none of the pickups had dust on them, driving on those Mississippi dirt roads. They are so cool, well maintained and expensive, though....

James Dean's death and the Till trial took place at around the same time, so it allows them to tell us where in time our group has landed. That James Dean's death was getting repeated newspaper coverage (driving Archie's Mom to anxiety attacks) indicates the Till trial was not getting coverage, and this is worked into part of the show. I thought this was effective, myself.

I'm sorry Jughead isn't going to keep his memories, though. I liked that. I found this Veronica fairly annoying, but her parents being Lucy and Ricky was pretty funny, and she got some points for pathos at the end, exiled from her family.

I think you’re taking a very limited view of the Fifties by describing it primarily based on racism and sexism.  The Fifties wasn’t some “white male fantasy.” It was a pivotal decade in the country’s history.  The growth of the middles class and suburbs led to unprecedented economic growth.  Television became the medium of the masses.  It was the decade the human race reached space. It was the decade that started the computer age.  And of course, it was the decade of rock and roll.  Yes, there was terrible racism, but that wasn’t a product of the Fifties, it had existed for a very long time.  The Fifties was the first decade to confront it.  The Fifties was the birth of the Civil Rights movement.  It was also the decade where we first saw widespread proliferation of Blacks in professional sports and entertainment.  The most popular show on television, I Love Lucy (which you alluded to), featured a mixed race marriage, something that was heretofore considered outrageous.  So I don’t see the Fifties as a terrible decade at all, but a decade of great and positive change.  There is much, in fact, that today’s America could learn from the Fifties.

[AnimeMania]

Individual threads might come back if we post enough. Feel free comment about stereotypes about the 1950's (dating, music, cars, fashion) and add some comments how their view differs from the one seen in Grease: Rise Of The Pink Ladies.

Edited April 3, 2023 by AnimeMania

[Affogato]

10 hours ago, Dobian said:

I think you’re taking a very limited view of the Fifties by describing it primarily based on racism and sexism.  The Fifties wasn’t some “white male fantasy.” It was a pivotal decade in the country’s history.  The growth of the middles class and suburbs led to unprecedented economic growth.  Television became the medium of the masses.  It was the decade the human race reached space. It was the decade that started the computer age.  And of course, it was the decade of rock and roll.  Yes, there was terrible racism, but that wasn’t a product of the Fifties, it had existed for a very long time.  The Fifties was the first decade to confront it.  The Fifties was the birth of the Civil Rights movement.  It was also the decade where we first saw widespread proliferation of Blacks in professional sports and entertainment.  The most popular show on television, I Love Lucy (which you alluded to), featured a mixed race marriage, something that was heretofore considered outrageous.  So I don’t see the Fifties as a terrible decade at all, but a decade of great and positive change.  There is much, in fact, that today’s America could learn from the Fifties.

Did you know that plastic was used to make plane parts in World War 2 and that, when the war ended, the plastics factories flailed about to find things to keep their factories going. Disposables, packaging. And, here we are!  Women in the fifties left jobs to men, because men were frightened by the competion, and to this day women who may more than men at their jobs often do more of the housework and childcare in the home. The creation of suburbs lead to the creation of the inner cities. Sadly, Medgar Evers was assassinated in front of his family in 1963 and recently I read that the NAACP is considering putting out a travel advisory for Florida (I don't know their decision on that one). Recent books, documentaries, and dramas have illustrated how hard it was in the fifties for women in science and technology, and how many women that contributed significantly to the space program were not acknowledged.  Laws are being passed to codify beliefs about what LGBTQIA+ and women should do with their bodies. Now, how does art work into this? "The incredible shrinking man"--men under attack from women, from gay people, from black people. The dream of the beat generation, where women bear really very little part in the lives of the beats. The prevalence of westerns, very male oriented stories, where women have few roles and little use. And Archie comics, mostly white, homogenous, and all the girls love Archie and make fun of Jughead.

All I was saying is I personally agree that they could not have a show based on this story and not draw some attention to the problematical parts of the story. I also think they could have done better, in general, but in this episode I'm fine with the 'jarring elements' they introduced..

[Dobian]

9 hours ago, Affogato said:

Did you know that plastic was used to make plane parts in World War 2 and that, when the war ended, the plastics factories flailed about to find things to keep their factories going. Disposables, packaging. And, here we are!  Women in the fifties left jobs to men, because men were frightened by the competion, and to this day women who may more than men at their jobs often do more of the housework and childcare in the home. The creation of suburbs lead to the creation of the inner cities. Sadly, Medgar Evers was assassinated in front of his family in 1963 and recently I read that the NAACP is considering putting out a travel advisory for Florida (I don't know their decision on that one). Recent books, documentaries, and dramas have illustrated how hard it was in the fifties for women in science and technology, and how many women that contributed significantly to the space program were not acknowledged.  Laws are being passed to codify beliefs about what LGBTQIA+ and women should do with their bodies. Now, how does art work into this? "The incredible shrinking man"--men under attack from women, from gay people, from black people. The dream of the beat generation, where women bear really very little part in the lives of the beats. The prevalence of westerns, very male oriented stories, where women have few roles and little use. And Archie comics, mostly white, homogenous, and all the girls love Archie and make fun of Jughead.

All I was saying is I personally agree that they could not have a show based on this story and not draw some attention to the problematical parts of the story. I also think they could have done better, in general, but in this episode I'm fine with the 'jarring elements' they introduced..

You're taking a woke view of history and imposing your 21st-century views on another time.  Societies evolve, and ours was evolving in the Fifties.  In many ways, our society has devolved in the 21st century.  The inner cities (which existed before the suburbs, they were always there) you mentioned were far different in the Fifties than they were today.  Anyone could go for a walk through Harlem or any other inner city at night then.  Not so today.  Black families were 80% two-parent households, compared to 20% today.  The internet and social media are now isolating and dividing people.  In the Fifties, you would go to the store and interact with a human.  Today you shop on Amazon and interact with no one.  Even in the Seventies, I would go out at night to play with my friends.  People still left their front doors unlocked.  Not anymore.  In the Fifties, you could laugh at a joke by Don Rickles, Mort Sahl, or Lenny Bruce.  Today you can't laugh at anything that might get canceled.  You mentioned how hard it was for women in the Fifties to have careers, which was very true.  But you didn't mention how today, many women work not because they want to but because they have to.  Today's economy requires two-income households for families to get by, which wasn't the case in the Fifties.  The Fifties had its problems, but in many ways was more civilized than the society we have today.  I could make the argument about any era of history that you're making about the Fifties.  The Roman Empire was a horrible period in world history.  Look at what they did to the people they conquered, to the Christians.  Forget about the advancements in architecture, roads, irrigation, sewage, military tactics, law, and government.  It was a dark period in world history.  The Renaissance - forget it.  Who cares about the advances in art, commerce, and banking?  Da Vinci, Michaelangelo, the Medicis, forget about them.  The Renaissance saw the rise of rampant imperialism and subjugation.  It was a dark stain on our history.  We have the choice to apply our 21st-century values and mores in a strict judgment of those who came before us.  Or we can view all of history fairly and objectively, and understand that people were the product of their time, and had we lived then we wouldn't be judging in the same way that we do from the present with the benefit of hindsight.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Dobian

[Bort]

I’m pretty sure this show isn’t attempting any sort of socio-economic statement, it’s just trying to emulate the comic books. This discussion is getting circular and doesn’t actually have anything to do with what happened in the episode, so let’s get back to that.

[AnimeMania]

S07.E02: Chapter One Hundred and Nineteen: Skip, Hop, and Thump!

RIVERDALE SOCK HOP — Riverdale High’s sock hop is around the corner and Archie (KJ Apa) has his sights set on taking Veronica (Camila Mendes) to the dance. Betty (Lili Reinhart) is confused when Kevin (Casey Cott) appears uninterested in taking things to the next level with her. Elsewhere, Jughead (Cole Sprouse) takes aim at Pep Comics, and Toni (Vanessa Morgan) attempts to convince Cheryl (Madelaine Petsch) to let Fangs (Drew Ray Tanner) perform at the sock hop.

Premiere Date: Wednesday, April 5, 2023    9pm    CW 

[ruby24]

Wait, so why is there no Reggie? Was Charles Melton busy or something?

[the-grey-lady]

2 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Wait, so why is there no Reggie? Was Charles Melton busy or something?

He was filming a movie. He doesn't appear until episode 8 at the earliest.

[Dobian]

It's funny how the show that is known for being off the rails bonkers suddenly turned into a conventional drama once it landed in the Fifties.  But the final moments of this episode and the previews for next week look like it's going to get back to being more like the old Riverdale again.

[Daltrey]

It still had its moments where I laughed out loud but I'm ready for the crazy to really ramp up again. 

[Affogato]

It is hard to discuss this episode without discussing the tension between the clearly artificial world Featherstone is imposing and the unhappy reality of the people trying to live up to it. In this show the only heavenly thing about the fifties so far is the price of a burger. 30 cents. wow.

I thought Betty might go to the 'hop with the new guy, Clay, and make Kevin jealous the wrong way. Well, that may yet happen.

This is the only variation of Veronica I have actually liked at all, but like the rest, she has a hard swim upstream into the real world. Love Ethel's strength, defying her parents. 

I still want Werewolf Jughead, maybe we will get a reference, even if it is only a dream or a mention.

Love the reference to Carrie, as I have enjoyed all the shows movie references.

I wonder if we are going to have Hal as a serial killer again and Betty as a sleuth? What horror did our budding Comic artist discover?

Can someone kill Julian?

[rmontro]

11 hours ago, Affogato said:

I still want Werewolf Jughead, maybe we will get a reference, even if it is only a dream or a mention.

That would go great with the fifties theme.  

You may like this Veronica, but she is dead to me after that stunt she pulled with auditioning Archie and the other guys.  Did I catch it correctly that Archie passed up a dance with her to go dance with his mom?

I felt bad for Ethel, what with her unrequited affection for Jughead and her awful parents.  My first thought at the end was that she killed them, but that's probably too obvious.

I guess they're trying to point out ways that the fifties were flawed times (as if our own aren't), but maybe it will culminate in the characters realizing that they are out of their own time.

I like that the show has become a little more grounded.  I like the crazy, but the show has taken it a little too far in the last couple of seasons.  I'm fine with dialing it back a bit.

[Bill1978]

Two episodes in and I'm still prepared to stick with this season and not abandon it yet. Honestly, at the moment it is giving me strong Season 1 vibes and staying away from the ridiculous stuff that made the show unbearable for me to watch. Last week, I was disappointed that it seemed the end game for Kevin wasn't going to be Moose, but after this week I think I won't mind if Kevin ends with Clay - not sure how the time travel will deal with Clay since technically he isn't in the future as far as we know.

Speaking of time travel, while I kinda understand what Tabitha did (along with a massive eye roll at the ridiculous concept and justification) I don't understand why people who died in the future need to be alive in the past (multiverse arguments be damned) apart from having us, the audience, saying 'Ooh cool that character is back'. Guess I find it strange that we have characters like Midge, Dilton and Ben (had to wiki who he was after the show went to efforts to make me understand he was important to see during that table in the opening scene) on the show but we don't have Moose (yet), Reggie (yet) or Jason. I also liked it when Cheryl's twin brother didn't speak.

I just hope the new mystery is a sensible, realistic one. Like Season 1.

Oh and show, I get that we are in the 1950s so please stop with the 1950s name dropping pop references please.

[thuganomics85]

Definitely enjoying Principal Featherhead and Dr. Werthers being the current main antagonists, trying to make everyone conform to their dated social views.  Especially Featherhead watching Cheryl and Toni dancing and being all "Girls?!  Dancing with one another?!!  They've got the devil in them!!!" about it.  The actors are definitely making the most of their screen time.

Veronica's scheme to have the boys compete for her was icky from the start, so I was glad both Archie and Mary told her off in their own way.  I still won't be surprised if Archie/Veronica eventually happens again; especially since Archie usually always tries to see the best in people; but hopefully that will be put on pause until she gets her shit together.

Then again, I'm guessing Betty/Archie might also possibly be an option since Betty is clearly feeling something for him thanks to her and Kevin not really working out (due to him being back in the closet in this universe/time period.)  Even if Kevin went along with Alice and acted like the "good boyfriend", I don't see Betty being satisfied for long.

Ethel potentially snapping and killing her abusive parents seems like the most obvious choice for that end scene, but I wouldn't be surprised if something else is in store here.  But I wonder if this is going all end up with each character unraveling the more it goes on and Tabitha/Guardian Angel having to step back in.

Agree that this season has been surprisingly normal by Riverdale standards so far, so I'm curious to see how much longer they'll bottle that crazy! 

[tennisgurl]

This has certainly been an interesting change for the show, its weird how the show has taken a turn towards being a sort of normal drama now that we've moved all the way back to the 50s due to a magical comet that took a chunk out of the multiverse. No serial killers, no cults, no super powers, its actually a nice change of pace, although we all know it wont last. Now that we have fully gone magic alternate universe, anything is possible and the 50s setting is only going to make the stylization even bigger. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

I'm sort of sad that there's so little interest in the final season of Riverdale. But then I don't really have much to say about it either. It does at least seem like the actors are enjoying themselves, as opposed to last season where it felt like everyone had a sign saying "I am here because I am contractually obligated to be."

[Bill1978]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I'm sort of sad that there's so little interest in the final season of Riverdale.

I agree, and I know it's only been 3 episodes, and everything could go pear shape, but this is shaping up to be my favourite season since S1. So, it's a shame people are going to miss the season cause the show went way too bonkers.

Having said that, only Riverdale would think its ok to have a steamy kissing fantasy after revealing a brutal murder. Although not sure how successful they were in making that fantasy streamy when all I could focus on was the dodgy makeup application to KJ's shoulder tattoo.

I quite enjoyed that little moment in the change room where Clay officially told Kevin he was into boys. Although it is weird that they are building to a Kevin coming out moment after 6 seasons of him being out and proud. It's also interesting to see the parallels between Clay/Kevin and Toni/Cheryl. One involves gently encouraging someone to be who they are while the other one involves wanting to push the person out of the closet whether they want to or not.

My money is on Hal being The Milkman (once a serial killer always a serial killer regardless of the time period) OR that creepy guy who gave the sex ed talk, who I call Superintendent Chalmers.

I'm going to assume there will be parts of the Riverdale fandom that will say the episode was boring, nothing happened etc. but to be honest this is the version of the show I signed up to watch after S1. Teen drama with a splash of a mystery to drive a yearlong plot, so I'm enjoying this final season and hopefully if they keep this up, the show will end without leaving a bad taste in my mouth. I was skeptical with the time travel aspect of this season but at the moment it is working.

[rmontro]

Sex, sex, and more sex.  I'm really enjoying these 50s episodes, and the dialing back of some of the more ridiculous plot points.  Is it too late to order another season of Riverdale?  Because I would be in for it.

Someone here suggested Jughead was asexual, and from this episode that might be possible.  Although he did seem to get a stir from kissing Betty - but that may have just been a scene thrown in to please long time fans.  I don't know why Jughead would be asexual since he wasn't in the previous reality.  Everyone else seems to have retained their preferences.

Oh, almost forgot.  If we're guessing who the Milkman is, put me down for Betty's father.

Edited April 13, 2023 by rmontro

[Affogato]

23 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Sex, sex, and more sex.  I'm really enjoying these 50s episodes, and the dialing back of some of the more ridiculous plot points.  Is it too late to order another season of Riverdale?  Because I would be in for it.

Someone here suggested Jughead was asexual, and from this episode that might be possible.  Although he did seem to get a stir from kissing Betty - but that may have just been a scene thrown in to please long time fans.  I don't know why Jughead would be asexual since he wasn't in the previous reality.  Everyone else seems to have retained their preferences.

Oh, almost forgot.  If we're guessing who the Milkman is, put me down for Betty's father.

Jughead is ace in the comics and Cole Sprouse wanted to play him as ace, so it is possible they are giving him his wish.

Definitely Hal as the Milkman. That would make the most sense, anyway.

I loved Betty and her sex book, and Archie wanting to read it before the party.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Affogato

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

Jughead is ace in the comics and Cole Sprouse wanted to play him as ace, so it is possible they are giving him his wish.

Definitely Hal as the Milkman. That would make the most sense, anyway.

Ace?  Is that the modern terminology for it now?  Anyway, it's interesting, although as I pointed out before, it doesn't make sense since no one else changed preferences.  But Jughead was the only one who knew they had changed time periods, so maybe there's something at play.  Maybe Angel Tabitha took his sex drive so he couldn't cheat on her lol.

Hal as the Milkman makes sense, as you say.  Which is exactly what makes me not confident about that prediction.

[thuganomics85]

Ah, now there is some of the crazy I was looking for!  And horniness.  Felt like the show was kind of phasing some of that during these past two episodes, but they went all in here!  A make-out/totally not an orgy! party and a dream sequence where almost everyone was playing tonsil hokey with each other!  No one was spared here (except Cole Sprouse for now), but K.J. Apa really had to go the extra mile because I'm pretty sure he locked lips with all all of the female leads besides Vanessa Morgan.  Also, unless Cheryl was exaggerating things (which could be a possibility with her), Archie has now hooked up with Betty, Veronica, and Cheryl.  Being the lead character certainly has its perks, I see!

So, not only is Betty still trying to make something; hell, anything; happen with Kevin (while he secretly continues to lust for Clay), we got new, out of left field couples with both Archie and Cheryl (even though, she's totally down for Toni but just won't admit it), and possibly Veronica and Jughead?!  Why not, I guess.  Hell, at this point, I would be curious to see if they can have every pairing possible out of this particular group before it wraps up.  Dare I say could see somehow end up with Archie and Jughead as a couple?!

Hal definitely seems like the prime suspect for the actual killer because... well, it's Hal.

Nathalie Boltt always makes Penelope a delight to watch!

I have to agree that this season is strangely capturing season one vibes despite its setting and it's kind of a good thing.  No more watching teenagers running a speakeasy while getting into a rum war with their mobster fathers, holding down what feels like four jobs while going to school at the same time, dealing with gang wars or the Jingle-Jangle epidemic, Dungeon & Dragon games running amok, or hitting a cult anytime you stick your hand out.  Just some silly, but entertaining teenage drama with a little bit of murder thrown in.  It's actually kind of working so far.

[tennisgurl]

It really is weird how normal this season has been considering how wild the set up for this time travel season has been, its actually a welcome change. Its just a mostly normal teen drama set in the 50s, just with some bits of weird sex and stylization. When we got our whole weird multiperson sex dream I was like "there we are, there's our crazy" but even that was just a dream sequence and then we got back to being kind of normal again. Its actually been shockingly fun to watch, it makes me wish we had gone back to the past a few seasons ago. This feels a lot more like season one, where the show was extra and weird, but without the legion of cults, serial killers, and alternate universes. 

Archie's expressions as Cheryl's brother was trying to sell him on banging his sister were amazing, KJ really wins most improved player on this show. Going back to Cheryl and Archie, after they had a bit of a thing WAY back in season one, is certainly an interesting development, I even liked seeing Veronica and Jughead sharing some screen time. I don't think its going to turn into any kind of romance, but its nice to see them interacting, of the core four they have the least explored dynamic. 

Hal is the obvious choice for the Milkman, but my guess is that its actually Alice in disguise and in this version of Riverdale she's the serial killer and Betty gets the serial killer gene from her. Yeah its stupid, but its Riverdale, its going to get stupid again eventually. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by tennisgurl

[ruby24]

It's still wild to me the way the show just completely dropped Betty and Jughead, despite the fact that they were kinda the central couple on this show for the first four seasons? I don't believe I've ever quite seen that happen on other shows like this absent a reason like a cast member leaving or something. Esp with the way they're still obviously letting the Cheryl/Toni and even Veronica/Archie relationships linger til the very end.

[secnarf]

Anyone else catch the banner at the school? "Join the entomology club, it's the bee's knees". I laughed.

That was the best part of the episode for me. I am glad this show is nearly over. But, it will keep being cuckoo bananas until the very end!

[Bill1978]

4 hours ago, secnarf said:

Anyone else catch the banner at the school? "Join the entomology club, it's the bee's knees". I laughed.

I thought maybe I had hallucinated the banner. Glad I didn't. I'm actually disappointed in myself that at no point while studying my entomology units at university did I ever describe it to my friends and family as it being the bee's knees.

[Affogato]

On 4/13/2023 at 8:38 PM, rmontro said:

Ace?  Is that the modern terminology for it now?  Anyway, it's interesting, although as I pointed out before, it doesn't make sense since no one else changed preferences.  But Jughead was the only one who knew they had changed time periods, so maybe there's something at play.  Maybe Angel Tabitha took his sex drive so he couldn't cheat on her lol.

Hal as the Milkman makes sense, as you say.  Which is exactly what makes me not confident about that prediction.

Yeah, I think Tabitha might well have done that, and this iteration seems more like the Jughead in the comics, so its a win.

 

[SourK]

Caught up to episode three. I don't love the 50s stuff, honestly -- I think this show was at its best when it was a sci-fi show about jumping between universes, but whatever.

I'm excited for everyone to have a career playing different roles after this! Most of the cast members seem cool in interviews. They're starting production companies and stuff. I hope it works out and this just becomes an anecdote about that time they got signed to a weird show and their weird boss kept making them do stupid stuff.

Speaking of stupid stuff. I felt like this season was oddly tame... and then there was a grisly murder and a dream sequence where everyone had to make out in their underwear, so, good to know it's still the same Riverdale.

Shannon Purser is too good for this show, but it's nice to see her again. I also like Toni's 1950s hair. It's the kind of style that makes me say, "Wow, should I get bangs?" -- and the answer is always no, but the question is titillating.

[Dobian]

They're doing a good job with all the subtle 50's touches in these episodes, like the cover art for the Human Sexuality book, and the beatnik bongos during the sexy dream segment.

[angora]

I agree with everyone who's said this is the most I've enjoyed the show since season 1. The '50s slang/references can be too over-the-top sometimes, but I can live with that. In any era, I guess, the show just hits its stride when it's about teen fun, drama, and romance, with a little murder thrown in.

Even though, as others have pointed out, no one else's orientation seems to have changed in the reboot, I would be thrilled if we finally got an asexual and/or aromantic Jughead. In the comics, he was only explicitly stated to be ace in 2015, in his own title created by Chip Zdarsky, but it rang true with how the character's been depicted since the '50s. I remember reading old falling-apart Archie comics at my grandparents' house when I was a kid, and while Archie, Reggie, Betty, Veronica, and others were constantly going gaga over girls/boys, Jughead only ever had eyes for burgers. Ethel had a crush on him, and he'd literally run away when she came at him with heart eyes. Zdarsky's comic didn't change who Jughead has always been; it just gave him a name for it.

Jughead's kiss with Betty at the party was definitely a moment--an unconscious memory of the former universe?--but I was absolutely here for him telling Veronica he was too busy eating burgers, reading comics, and watching monster movies to date. That's my Jughead! I like the idea that Veronica maybe now has a thing for one of the only guys in Riverdale who's not trying to get with her. That relationship has always been the least explored of the core four, and it'd be fun to see them genuinely be friends in this universe.

[AnimeMania]

S07.E04: Chapter One Hundred and Twenty-One: Love & Marriage

CUPID’S CHECK LIST — After enlisting Archie’s (KJ Apa) help, Cheryl’s (Madelaine Petsch) plan to fool her family spirals out of control. Jughead (Cole Sprouse) turns to Veronica (Camila Mendes) for help after finding himself in some trouble, and Betty (Lili Reinhart) gives Kevin (Casey Cott) an ultimatum.

Premiere Date: Wednesday, April 19, 2023    9pm    CW 

[Affogato]

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/05/how-a-frog-became-the-first-mainstream-pregnancy-test/525285/
 

good research. 

[Bill1978]

And here I was thinking the Riverdale writers were just being wacky with the frog pregnancy test. The more you know.

So glad that Cheryl didn't go through with the marriage to Archie, although I often forget that the 50s solution to premarital sex was to get married and that it was more common 'solution' than not. Will be interesting if Midge's parents take the same approach when her pregnancy is revealed (assuming we haven't jumped back to the future by then).

While it's great that Kevin is back out of the closet, I'm not totally thrilled with the speed it happened or how it happened. I think I would have preferred to see the scene where Clay comforts Kevin after Betty breaks up with him, then hearing Kevin tell Betty about it. I also don't feel Kevin would go from being deeply closeted, crying over being dumped and then dancing publicly with a man in a venue that is exactly a secret gay club which increases the chance of being seen. I will admit I thought Betty telling Kevin that their relationship wasn't a waste time was sweet, but I was also expecting the writers to have a better coming out moment for Kevin than what they delivered.

While I have never really cared about the relationships between Archie/Betty/Veronica/Jughead, I'm not sure I really approve of Veronica/Jughead hooking up any more than Archie/Cheryl. It just feels like the writers have looked at the relationship board and decided to use this time travel to hook up characters for no other reason than because they haven't already done it. Not sure why Veronica and Jughead couldn't just remain friends. But then again, television really doesn't like the idea that straight men and women can just be friends.

Is it bad that I want Daddy Blossom to repeat what he did in Season 1 to Jason, with Julian? Out of all the new characters they've bought in I can't stand him. He is such a one-dimensional bad guy.

[ruby24]

Yeah, I'm not into this Veronica/Jughead thing. Just because you haven't paired this particular twosome together doesn't mean you have to, or that they should. Doesn't feel right.

[rmontro]

Well, apparently Jughead isn't asexual, judging from that "Wowie".  But I don't really think I'm seeing the chemistry between Jughead and Veronica.  I'm not sure they make a believable couple.  Like Bill1978 said above, maybe they should have just remained friends.  But whatever, might as well see where it's going.

Speaking of Jughead, anyone know what that S on his shirt stands for?  Serpents?

[ybrik]

Definitely in agreement that this move to the 50’s has brought back some of the charm that the show had in the first season. 

don’t mind Jughead and Veronica but also think them being friends only would have been just as good. It would have been interesting for Veronica to just be friends with a guy without any romantic intentions.

Not sure this is helping the notion that Archie and Betty are supposed to be the couple. At least from Betty’s perspective she seems to want to always want Archie first but with Archie it seems he has to be convinced or pointed in Betty’s direction. 

[SourK]

TBH, I liked it when Jughead and Veronica were awkward around each other and couldn't hang out alone. I thought that was both funny and realistic, but I would have been fine watching them become friends this season. I agree that the romance feels like the writers are just hooking up whoever's left over.

On that note, I kind of hoped for a second that Betty and Toni would get together, since I'm tired of Cheryl and Toni's relationship, but it doesn't look like that's the way it's going.

On a completely different note -- maybe the comic books are coming true again in this universe? Ooo -- and maybe Ethel has the power to shape reality.

[secnarf]

The storylines with Cheryl and Kevin are making me kind of uncomfortable - it's uncomfortable to watch them be gay in the 1950s. But it also is difficult to watch because they cannot air a show with their main characters being homophobic in a way that would have been seen as normal at the time, and so they are far more supportive and open than I would think is realistic. This is a small town that likely wouldn't have had a substantial underground LGBTQ scene. They also had Clifford Blossom specifically mention Joe McCarthy; it was in the context of the red scare, but the episode was tip toeing along the edge of the lavender scare, and I wonder if the writers used the former as a bit of a surrogate for the latter. They seem to be positioning the characters so that their 'villains' are homophobic and their 'heroes' are not, but IMO that is a misrepresentation of life for LGBTQ people in the 1950s. And sure, it's fiction, but I don't know the purpose it serves other than they wrote themselves into a bit of a corner as they can't have these characters suddenly be straight, and they also can't have their main characters acting homophobic.

That's all I got from this episode, really.

[Bill1978]

1 hour ago, secnarf said:

They seem to be positioning the characters so that their 'villains' are homophobic and their 'heroes' are not, but IMO that is a misrepresentation of life for LGBTQ people in the 1950s.

I think this is why I felt Kevin's storyline has felt rushed, I just don't see Kevin going from being confused about the feelings Clay is stirring up within him and dating Betty last episode to suddenly happily dancing in public with a male and telling Betty this is who I am. It may not have felt so jarring if it happened in Episode 6 or something. But we definitely needed some moments with Clay talking to Kevin about being gay etc. But of course, that would require the writers acknowledging that Kevin is more than a random plot point when needed, and in this case, they needed Kevin to be out so Betty could get with Archie. In the 1950s, he would have pushed his feelings deep down and did whatever it took to be 'normal' with Betty. Assuming we return to the present, it will be interesting to see what they do with Kevin and Clay (assuming Clay comes along for the ride and Moose is around)

I haven't been a fan of Toni's insistence that Cheryl needs to embrace her inner gay. Never a fan of one gay character insisting another gay character needs to come out because they want them to. Compare Clay's approach with Kevin to Toni's approach to Cheryl. One is gently telling the other that you aren't alone in feeling the way you do and basically I'll help you if and when you want it and the other one is basically dragging the person out of the closet screaming at them 'You are gay!! And I want to jump you' And in reality, the writers are hoping we won't mind Toni's approach because we as an audience have inside knowledge of a pre-existing relationship and the writers are hoping we still want to see them together.

1 hour ago, SourK said:

On that note, I kind of hoped for a second that Betty and Toni would get together, since I'm tired of Cheryl and Toni's relationship, but it doesn't look like that's the way it's going.

I honestly thought that's where they were going to go when Toni offered to help Betty cope with dumping Kevin. The best thing that could have happened from that scenario is that maybe Toni would stop her harassment of Cheryl.

[ruby24]

I'm tired of Cheryl and Toni too. I was honestly over them a while ago, but the show doesn't want to give them up. 

Startlingly, the only original couple the show seems to have given up is Betty and Jughead. Which is again, amazing to me given how many years that relationship was developed (Cheryl and Toni in comparison were more of a supporting plot). And how it never got any closure either. 

I mean, if Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa really did prefer Betty/Archie from the beginning (like I think they had Kevin make a snide joke about at one point), why the hell did they spend so many years on Betty/Jughead? I mean, why not do them for like two seasons max and have that be it? Or like the way they halfheartedly returned to Veronica/Reggie every once in a while, only for it never to last that long and give off the heavy impression that the show never wanted its audience to get too attached or root for that couple? It just doesn't make any sense.