S04.E01: The Munsters

[amarante]

On 3/27/2023 at 5:13 AM, Blakeston said:

My favorite part was Nan talking about how horrible and disgusting the bidding war was, with a big smile on her face.

I always thought the Pierce company was supposed to be a stand-in for CNN, but Roman mentioned newspapers, so maybe they're supposed to be the New York Times? The thought of one of Rupert Murdoch's companies acquiring either CNN or the Times would be pretty terrifying. I'm not sure how much better Pierce will fare under the Roy children, though.

 

 

 

The real tragedy in acquisitions is that so much debt is required to acquire the company that they have to purge and cut costs in order to attempt to make it viable.

So there are drastic cuts in employee numbers. Sometimes the actual assets of the company are picked off and the company closed down. 

In terms of media, there are almost no news organizations that can afford true investigative reporting as well as keeping posts in various foreign countries. Both the Washingpost Post and LA Times are currently owned by mega billionaires who appear to be fine with supporting them without making massive profits. The NY Times seems to be safe for the moment. 

[aghst]

3 minutes ago, amarante said:

The real tragedy in acquisitions is that so much debt is required to acquire the company that they have to purge and cut costs in order to attempt to make it viable.

So there are drastic cuts in employee numbers. Sometimes the actual assets of the company are picked off and the company closed down. 

In terms of media, there are almost no news organizations that can afford true investigative reporting as well as keeping posts in various foreign countries. Both the Washingpost Post and LA Times are currently owned by mega billionaires who appear to be fine with supporting them without making massive profits. The NY Times seems to be safe for the moment. 

The Slate Money podcast is also doing discussions after each episode.

They had on a lot of media journalists.  They don't think for instance that the Gojo deal will go through, which means the Pierce deal can't go through either.

They also pointed out that there are a lot of aspects which are like the Murdochs but also some of the Roys, particularly the relationship between Logan and Shiv, is similar to the relationship between Sumner and Shari Redstone.

Sumner hated to lose to his kids and berated them constantly, not just to them but he'd copy other execs in his company and say all kinds of awful things to Shari by email.

In the end he was alienated from his family and had nobody except his girlfriends, who took advantage of him.  A couple of girlfriends made off with $150 million.

They also pointed out that the way the kids negotiated with Nan Pierce or for that matter Logan throwing out numbers to relay on the phone wouldn't happen.  They'd have investment bankers around them with reams of spreadsheets and data to determine what prices work or not.

Then 120 Broadway, which is the building Shiv enters to get to her apartment, is not even a residential building.  It's in the Financial District, not really the neighborhood the rich would live in Manhattan.

[EtheltoTillie]

3 hours ago, aghst said:

The Slate Money podcast is also doing discussions after each episode.

They had on a lot of media journalists.  They don't think for instance that the Gojo deal will go through, which means the Pierce deal can't go through either.

They also pointed out that there are a lot of aspects which are like the Murdochs but also some of the Roys, particularly the relationship between Logan and Shiv, is similar to the relationship between Sumner and Shari Redstone.

Sumner hated to lose to his kids and berated them constantly, not just to them but he'd copy other execs in his company and say all kinds of awful things to Shari by email.

In the end he was alienated from his family and had nobody except his girlfriends, who took advantage of him.  A couple of girlfriends made off with $150 million.

They also pointed out that the way the kids negotiated with Nan Pierce or for that matter Logan throwing out numbers to relay on the phone wouldn't happen.  They'd have investment bankers around them with reams of spreadsheets and data to determine what prices work or not.

Then 120 Broadway, which is the building Shiv enters to get to her apartment, is not even a residential building.  It's in the Financial District, not really the neighborhood the rich would live in Manhattan.

I know some people "adjacent" to the Redstones.  Sumner was, shall we say, an unpleasant character who seems more like Logan than Murdoch is. 

Agree on that weird phone negotiation.  I'm far from involved in high finance, but I can't believe they were doing that vague game-of-chicken analysis.  Will he go to 10?  What's his number?  Seemed unrealistic. 

[chaifan]

If I had about $2 billion to my name (in cash or shares that I could cash in) and an emotionally abusive, asshole father who just spent the last few years pitting me against my siblings for his entertainment, I don't think I'd be wasting my time spending that $2 billion trying to start a new company, and working my ass off in a desperate attempt to impress Daddy or show other family members I wasn't trying to impress Daddy.  I'd be on permanent vacation for the rest of my life, sending Daddy a regular stream of pictures of me on pristine beaches being fed grapes by handsome men.  All while he's toiling trying to make another billion or so. 

Is it just me?

I would have loved for this season to start with Shiv and Kendall battling it out with Logan, and Roman doing the very Romanesque thing of saying fuck you all, cashing out his shares and sitting on an island somewhere.  About 2-3 times per episode, we'd cut from an intense fight scene between Shiv, Kendall and/or Logan, to Roman chilling out and swimming with turtles, or having phone sex with Gerry.  Over the course of the season we'd see a progression of people following him there... Shiv, Kendall, Willa (they give Connor the address to a different island, and he spends the rest of the season trying to find them), Tom, Frank, Gerry.  All realizing they're rich enough and don't have to work another day in their lives. 

And the last episode ends with Logan, stuck with Greg, the "honorary" child.

Edited March 28, 2023 by chaifan

[Taget]

On 3/26/2023 at 11:38 PM, cardigirl said:

Logan must be losing it, he would never have lost that bidding war last season. 

Well.  He can win a bidding war.  The question is at what point is it just a fruitless waste of money.  To someone like Logan a financially struggling "prestige" media company is a way to paint fresh paint on his ratings strong but not well regarded media empire.  Think Murdoch buying the Times of London and the Wall Street Journal.  But even that is only worth so much money.

The kids however unless they are willing to spend money to renovate it or do something with it they are are vastly overrated to a name and a declining name at that are not necessarily getting the same value.

To give an example of what I mean.  Let's say you're Newsy.  That new station that is on the air but which even if you heard of you probably have little regard for.  If they bought he New York Times and became New Times Media with substantial crossover from with the Times national newspaper brand perhaps you have a synergy that would enhance not only the former "Newsy" brand and made it more valuable but also have a network (and hopefully internet presence) to push your newspaper brand.

If however it was bought by a hedge fund who did in a highly leverage way above market price to get a newpaper with a declining revenue model I am not sure what they have got themselves.

Worst case scenario for Logan?  He eliminates a competitor.  But for the kids?  To keep afloat they have to sell off parts of and devalue the brand so much they might be left with pennies on the dollar of what they paid for which loans and interest payments owed to the banks who helped fund the buyout.

And this assumes the Waystar deal goes through and the kids have money to spend.  And they may STILL owe a prohibitively expensive breakup fee to Pierce if it doesn't.

[khyber]

About 20 minute into the episode Mr. Khyber walked into the room and asked "Is every other word in this show fuck?", "Yes", I replied, "it is."

[wknt3]

⁸

54 minutes ago, khyber said:

About 20 minute into the episode Mr. Khyber walked into the room and asked "Is every other word in this show fuck?", "Yes", I replied, "it is."

Not "You're fucking right it fucking is"?

[Milburn Stone]

On 3/27/2023 at 10:15 AM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

It must have to felt good for them to hear that they got under Logan's skin "Congratulations, you said a higher number than me, you morons!"...

On 3/27/2023 at 12:43 PM, Cramps said:

We learned that the kids can buy Nan’s company once they get the money from Logan selling his company…I’m thinking Logan is vindictive enough not to sell. 

I'm with you, @Cramps. In calling the kids morons, he's telling them "you just cut off your own d*cks." Not only will their offer fail (since they can't back it up with financing), they'll end up ruined. (Maybe Nan will require a nonrefundable cash down payment and they'll sell all their stock to do it. Not that she cares about money with starvation, and war, and all those bad things in the world, or anything.) Maybe the series finale will find Logan still king and the children impoverished! Or maybe the whole family living in a homeless shelter! How delicious would that be?

[laurakaye]

I adore this show and have watched every episode twice - once for the newness and again for the subtle nuances, glances, body language, etc., by all of these amazing actors.

What a group of sad people...Logan bailing on his own birthday and trying to have a somewhat normal conversation with Colin.  Logan demanding that everyone take a crack at him but when Greg hits the mark too well, Logan slams him by slamming Greg's dad (I would love to know more of that story).  Tom and Shiv dissolving their marriage but then lying on the bed together at an odd angle, exhausted, but holding hands (which I have to think means something).  It's all wonderful.

I both loathe and love Nan and her oddball family.  Poor Nan with her awful headache that only took five minutes to dissipate, upon which she told the Roy kids how much she hated (LOVED) being in the middle of their nasty family mess...but then, I mean - sure, Nan will listen to those icky cash offers because after all, look at this dilapidated mansion! and Bitsy's problems in Maine! and Buffy's divorce!  etc.  She's just fantastic - she makes me cringe and then I rewind to watch her scenes again.

I have come to almost love Willa the most - her dead-eyed exasperated facial expressions are so good.  She's been doing it since the beginning - as if she can't believe she is where she is, and who she's with, but has decided that this is what she must do to have what she wants - but she still kind of hates everyone.

One thing that confuses me - Logan has the corner market on spinning the presidential election his way, yes?  If this is the case - why is Conner with his 1% still in the race?  I keep expecting Logan to shut Con down hard with his nonsense, the same way he tells his other kids to F*** off every other day.  Isn't Con basically a laughingstock?  I feel like there's something there but I don't know what it is.

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by laurakaye

[khyber]

15 hours ago, wknt3 said:

⁸

Not "You're fucking right it fucking is"?

I missed that opportunity! 😆

[TV Anonymous]

And so, a $10-billion M&A is done only by the three siblings discussing among themselves with the help of one man. No consultant, no investment banker, no accountant, no lawyer. O...kay, I suppose, in context of this show?

[The Hound Lives]

On 3/27/2023 at 2:27 PM, dmc said:

Same but is Tom actually dumb or does he just give dumb ass vibes?  

I think he’s weak but not dumb. Glaring insecurities about his position not only with the company, but in life overall. This is why his “friendship“ with Greg even exists. He views Greg as being beneath him, less intelligent and soft. Therefore, he continuously tries to shame or embarrass him. Doesn’t matter, because Greg doesn’t catch onto it. Greg is his version of a monster truck. Compensating. 
What does disappoint me is I expected Greg to be more of a player early on. He comes off as a dim bulb, but every so often, like when he was copying Tom’s documents when he was supposed to be shredding them in season one, I saw him as a potential piece of the puzzle. Somebody who plays the dullard, but actually is absorbing information to use to his advantage to propel himself. I obviously thought too much about it because he’s nothing more than a comedic foil. I really wanted him to be the best of all of them because the Roy kids, and Logan himself, definitely need to be kicked off their perch. 
I am so happy the show is back, but at the same time, I don’t feel the intrigue, or that the stakes are high. It would be one thing if this was a family of people who despised each other, but deep down, they are all seeking daddy’s approval.

[chaifan]

16 minutes ago, The Hound Lives said:

What does disappoint me is I expected Greg to be more of a player early on. He comes off as a dim bulb, but every so often, like when he was copying Tom’s documents when he was supposed to be shredding them in season one, I saw him as a potential piece of the puzzle. Somebody who plays the dullard, but actually is absorbing information to use to his advantage to propel himself.

Yep, I thought this too, after the document copying episode.  I thought he'd turn out to be an evil genius (ok, maybe not a genius...), and his grandfather (James Cromwell) coached him to play dumb, but that he'd do something that would make him a real adversary/competition to the kids.  Nope.  Didn't happen.  By the middle of last season, I was just bored with the character.  He's pretty much one-note.  You could delete every scene he's in, and it wouldn't make a difference. 

Maybe in the last episode, Greg ends up taking over the whole business, and we get a montage flashback of him putting all the pieces in place, and each of his dumb stunts was a cover for his evil plot.  Ya think?  No?  Maybe if it was a cross-over Leverage episode...

[Milburn Stone]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

Yep, I thought this too, after the document copying episode.  I thought he'd turn out to be an evil genius (ok, maybe not a genius...), and his grandfather (James Cromwell) coached him to play dumb, but that he'd do something that would make him a real adversary/competition to the kids.  Nope.  Didn't happen. 

@chaifan, you and @The Hound Lives make me wonder if this is where the season is headed!

[chaifan]

@Milburn Stone It's anyone's guess, right?  😁

Seriously, though, even though I semi-snarkily proposed Roman saying fuck it to all this stuff and living life on an island, I'm not buying him as someone who seriously wants to go into business and is now all about the branding, etc., and is willing to risk his $2 billion of shares to do so.  It just doesn't track with the Roman we've seen for 3 seasons.  Roman never really wanted to work, he just wanted Daddy's approval and to one-up Ken.  Now that they all know Daddy's never going to give them that approval, ever, what's his motivation for wanting to do this business deal with Shiv and Ken?  It would have made more sense for him to team up with Ewan (Greg's grandfather), become a billionaire philanthropist just to get his name plastered on hospital wings and schools, and let everyone else do the work while he taunts Shiv and Ken from a beach or opium den or where ever.  The writers are going to have to convince me this is a new Roman, or just let him revert to old Roman, who was much more fun.

[aghst]

Remember that if Gojo deal goes through, the kids would get a lot of money but no management role in the merged company, nothing at all.

If they wanted jobs, they'd have to apply there or elsewhere and work their way up.

So apparently they don't want that, they want to show Logan as well as themselves that they deserve all that stupendous wealth because they have talent, not because they were born into a rich family.

I'm sure during their upbringing that was emphasized, doing something great, being a mogul or dealmaker or captain of industry.  Even if Logan himself didn't raise him with that expectation, though it seems likely he did, because they're chips off the old block so they should genetically be ambitious and be great, they're in that milieu where their friends, classmates and family acquaintances all come from that elite world, so even without anyone placing explicitly grandiose expectations of them, they probably internalized that they wanted to inherit the mantle from daddy.

Someone came up with funny lyrics to the Succession theme and one of the lines was something about they want daddy's approval.

So it could be something as simple as that, driving their ambitions.

[Brn2bwild]

10 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

And so, a $10-billion M&A is done only by the three siblings discussing among themselves with the help of one man. No consultant, no investment banker, no accountant, no lawyer. O...kay, I suppose, in context of this show?

Isn't that how Elon Musk decided to buy Twitter? /s

[BlackberryJam]

On 3/29/2023 at 11:47 AM, TV Anonymous said:

And so, a $10-billion M&A is done only by the three siblings discussing among themselves with the help of one man. No consultant, no investment banker, no accountant, no lawyer. O...kay, I suppose, in context of this show?

When they were on the balcony, they were making calls to someone about the financing. I mean…it was minimal, but it was there.

[KittyQ]

On 3/29/2023 at 8:06 AM, laurakaye said:

What a group of sad people...Logan bailing on his own birthday and trying to have a somewhat normal conversation with Colin.  Logan demanding that everyone take a crack at him but when Greg hits the mark too well, Logan slams him by slamming Greg's dad (I would love to know more of that story). 

He's like one of those guys that go around daring people to punch them in the stomach to show how tough he is, but then he punches the gullible person back when they don't expect it.

[KittyQ]

On 3/29/2023 at 12:20 PM, chaifan said:

Maybe in the last episode, Greg ends up taking over the whole business, and we get a montage flashback of him putting all the pieces in place, and each of his dumb stunts was a cover for his evil plot.  Ya think?  No?  Maybe if it was a cross-over Leverage episode...

I've wondered if Greg is the "Bran" of this series, ending up on the Iron Throne (so to speak) after all the bigger players have taken themselves down. 

[nb360]

On 5/25/2023 at 9:34 AM, KittyQ said:

I've wondered if Greg is the "Bran" of this series, ending up on the Iron Throne (so to speak) after all the bigger players have taken themselves down. 

Let’s revisit this after Sunday’s episode 😀