All Episodes Discussion

[Irritable]

Yes, it actually is possible for some people to hide bipolar disorder.  It's not the kind of illness that shows up in a blood test, and while there are times of mania and times of deep depression, there are also times of what appear to be stability.  My mother had bipolar disorder, it was untreated her entire life aside from the self-medicating she did with alcohol every evening which led to exactly what Harris described - every day when you got home you didn't know what version of her would be waiting for you, and there was a feeling of dread every time you walked in the door.  It was our big family secret, no one would talk about it and it was understood that no one outside of the family was to know.  She held down a full time job, no one she worked with had any idea she was sick in that way.  Her friends didn't know.  My friends didn't know, even the VERY few that I trusted enough to bring to my house - I kept my inner circle tight because I was ashamed, and didn't want anyone to see what was really going down at home, but my mother only let the façade slip in front of my closest friend once in over 10 years.  She convinced a police officer who saw her punching me in the face and pulled our car over that I deserved it, and he never even walked over to check on me or ask for my side.  I was 7 years old at the time (the 1970's were a whole different world when it came to the protection of abused children).  She knew how to manipulate and hide her mental issue, but she let it fly full strength in the privacy of our home.  It disgusted me that she could contain herself when she wanted to, and that she treated strangers with kindness that she didn't give to her own child.  I'm not saying Lee was abusive to Savannah, I'm just saying that when someone with bipolar disorder wants to hide it, sometimes they can, especially if they are not in the middle of a full blown episode (my mother called in sick a lot, or had me do it for her, when she was too far out of her mind to go to work).  And if Lee's psychiatric evaluations were done during times that she was "stable", then it's not like they would be able to figure it out based on interviews - if they asked her about mood swings, extreme emotional highs and lows, etc., she would just lie and say that never happened, that she was always mellow and only got upset when it was justified.  But considering how difficult it is in the U.S. for a father to be granted full custody, that tells me that the people who claim there was zero evidence that what he said about her instability was true, the judge's decision says otherwise.  Courts will always try as hard as possible to keep the child with the mother, so any time I hear a father was granted custody, that tells me the mother was seriously messed up in some way.  The people who support Lee say that there was no sign whatsoever that she was mentally ill, but that's basically heresay for the viewers in this case, and there was clearly much more to her problems than what we were shown. 

 

It pisses me off that Savannah/Samantha couldn't be bothered to even keep in touch with her dad through email.  She came across like a reasonable person, admitted that her time with him had been pleasant and comfortable, so it doesn't make sense to me that she could so easily just wash her hands of him and go back to school without at least being in contact a little.  How terribly sad.  I never had doubts about Harris' motivations, but even if I did, the fact that he still has her room perfectly preserved and never moved from the house in case she came back was proof to me that his daughter was always the goal, not revenge.  I'm glad the girl had a good life, but she seems to be a pretty cold adult for someone whose childhood was so loving and nurturing.  I agree about there being a Stockholm Syndrome element here, or some kind of brainwashing done by her mother.

[Ohmo]

Thank you, crazychicken.  I find that article to be very credible.  It sounds like the gentleman did his due diligence and really attempted to make an informed decision before he gave Harris the information.  To me, that makes Harris's account even more credible because this man didn't even know Harris.  Even not knowing Harris, he did know Lee, and he had the sense that something about Lee's account didn't fly.  Yet, he didn't trust Harris either.  He made the effort to verify the information and evaluate it.  I have great respect for this man.  He got involved when he didn't have to, and treated the information he had with great care.  He's also demonstrated great courage in the face of those that support Lee.

[Taylorh2]

Apparently it's not easy to tell if someone is lying by their eye direction.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/12/lying-eye-direction-study_n_1667677.html?utm_hp_ref=science

 

Now that's an excellent point that had me wondering as well. That's why watching these shows can be so frustrating. Was Lee labeled as bipolar just because she was acting out her anger at Harris? Will expert witnesses - including psychiatrists - say anything for a buck? It seems like there was a lot of mud slinging during that custody fight. (Slightly off-topic: I saw the documentary "The Staircase" a few years ago and the defense's "expert' witnesses made my skin crawl.)

Wasn't it said that during a custody hearing that Lee was totally acting up, in front of the judge?

[UsernameFatigue]

I can't remember - was it revealed in the epi that Lee was actually in the process of divorcing (or maybe was divorced from) her second husband when he died? I found these quotes in the above article from the former friend who turned her in interesting :

 

“But as I saw what Alex did over the years it bothered me to the point where I said to my wife ‘I think we’re wrong, I don’t believe the story any more and I need to find out.”

After watching the terrible breakdown of his friend’s marriage, Mr Schofield undertook his own research, discovering Sam’s real father, Mr Todd, a wealthy stock broker from South Carolina, had been searching the world since her disappearance.

 

I have two relatives who experienced dealing with someone like Lee. My cousin was married to a "Lee". She turned their three children totally against their father. Rather than continue to fight her and put the kids in the middle he waited for them to become old enough to see the truth for themselves. All three did, and since they have been adults have wonderful relationships with my cousin, and no relationship with their mother.

 

A worse scenario is my nephew in law whose mother raised him and his 3 siblings without their father from young ages. She told them that he was no good, never able to hold down a job, an alcoholic, etc. For years she drummed into them that everything they had was thanks to her. She was a very controlling person but they worshipped her, thinking she had saved them from a terrible childhood otherwise. Then after my niece and nephew in law married, a situation came up where they tried to warn her of a situation involving one of the other sibs. She totally turned against them. They began to wonder if she could turn against them that easily, was what she had told them regarding the father actually true? Turns out it wasn't. He was a stable, loving person who had held the same job for 30 years. She was the unstable one unable to hold onto a job (but that was always someone else's fault). The kicker was he had been paying child support for all 4 children for years, past even when he no longer had to! She kept that little tidbit from the kids too, including the years he was paying while they were in university. My nephew in law now has a wonderful relationship with his father, and none with his mother. She is also missing seeing her two grandchildren grow up.

 

So when Lee was in jail and told Savanna that everything she did, she did for her it made me think that she has brainwashed her for years. And unfortunately it is possible that until Savanna does something to displease her mother and she sees her true colours, she may never let her father into her life.

Edited August 10, 2015 by UsernameFatigue

[Ohmo]

I can't remember - was it revealed in the epi that Lee was actually in the process of divorcing (or maybe was divorced from) her second husband when he died?

 

I think the episode said they were divorced, but it could have been they were getting a divorce.  Either way, I don't think Lee and the second husband were together.  One of the Australian articles mentioned that Savanna/Sam has a brother (presumably the child of Lee and second husband, I'd think) named Reece.  I wonder what Reece might say about Lee?  Does he agree with Savanna/Sam?

[UsernameFatigue]

I think the half brother (who of course Savanna grew up thinking was a full brother) was mentioned in the show and yes he was the son of Lee's second husband.  Interesting that so many people were interviewed/featured including old friends of Lee's, their children, Lee's mother, etc. but not the relative closest to both Lee and Savanna. You would think that if he felt the same way Savanna did he would have travelled to the U.S. as well to support his mother at her trial.

Edited August 10, 2015 by UsernameFatigue

[Ohmo]

National Parents Organization is a Shared Parenting Organization

National Parents Organization is a non-profit that educates the public, families, educators, and legislators about the importance of shared parenting and how it can reduce conflict in children, parents, and extended families. Along with Shared Parenting we advocate for fair Child Support and Alimony Legislation.

 

This piece has a definite slant to its point of view, so keep that that in mind.

Harris Todd and Lee Barnett’s Custody Case

 

However, this is the first thing I've read where the judge is actually discussed in any detail.

 

A few more articles for those who are interested.  Unfortunately, none of them seems to bode a positive future for Harris.  I'm incredulous at all of the support that Lee has because I can't find one documented instance of anything negative about Harris---just opinions and allegations from those who support Lee,

 

Daily Mail (UK) article

 

Children of the Underground Dart Center for Journalism and Trauma (Columbia Journalism School)

 

Kidnapped Savanna Catherine Todd 'not a victim'

 

Mum who abducted daughter released from jail

[Morbs]

I was thinking the couple who broke the case probably are a lot like us and post here on the Dateline threads, haha.  I for sure snoop into anything I find suspicious in my own life, and I have a few businesses on my radar as possible drug fronts!

[saber5055]

I would have liked to hear from the mom.

 

 

Dateline gave her the opportunity to tell her story and she declined. Make of that what you will.

“She’s adamant that she had a wonderful upbringing, that she had a fantastic father in Jan and was thrown wonderful birthday parties and lived in all these countries,

 

 

So I guess if you spend a lot of money on your kid, throw big parties and take him/her to lots of fancy places, that equates to a "wonderful upbringing." Interesting to know that about you, Samantha/Savannah. Lots of luck with that if you ever become a parent.

Edited August 12, 2015 by saber5055

[cooksdelight]

This is re-airing tonight if you missed it the first time around.

[Ohmo]

This was Russell Williams, the Canadian colonol who was in charge of Canada's largest air force base. He also murdered two women, raped several others, and broke into several houses and tried on women's underwear and bras. He's now in prison in Canada. When he was discharged from the armed forces, the Canadian Air Force burned his uniform.

I had seen this case profiled on 48 Hours but I never knew that Dateline did an episode as well. I thought it was interesting to get a Canadian perspective on a serious crime. The guy is a major sicko. I'm glad he's behind bars.

[cooksdelight]

I set it up for you with the episode number, date, etc. :)

I've seen him profiled on a couple of shows. And Gary Cole did the movie about him. To say he's a creepy sadistic guy is an understatement.

[walnutqueen]

I set it up for you with the episode number, date, etc. :)

I've seen him profiled on a couple of shows. And Gary Cole did the movie about him. To say he's a creepy sadistic guy is an understatement.

 

Yes, and Lifetime aired that movie just this afternoon.

[cooksdelight]

Gary nailed it, especially when they had Williams in the interrogation room.

I wonder how prison life is treating the scumbag?

[Eln5]

It is episodes like this that make me never want to date a guy ever again. This scumbag was able to lead a complete double life, on the one hand a respected military officer and husband, on the other hand a demented pervert, rapist and killer. How can the average person weed out a psycho like this if they are able to fool so many people? I've seen this episode before and it haunts me every time.

[cooksdelight]

Did the detective in charge of the case have a stroke at some point or something? The left side of his face just sits there while the right side -- and his right eye -- move normally.

I notice the weird things once I have already figured out that the wife did it.

[JudyObscure]

I was thinking stroke or Bell's Palsy or even nerve damage from an injury of some kind, but  whatever, he sure was a good detective.  I like a man who goes straight for the pretty young woman without being fooled by fake tears.  I hated her from the first smirk.  There's no doubt in my mind she was thinking, "How can I use this guy?" from the moment she first saw her husband/victim.  The way she broke him away from his father was almost as evil as setting up the hit, and ultimately her own father.  

[saber5055]

Amen, Eln5. Every Dateline makes me want to never date anyone OR ever get married OR ever trust anyone. This show gives real-life examples every week of "trust no one," including your own family. And this colonel ... my gosh. The poor "regular" guy who lived next to him got dragged in for questioning as a suspect but the respected military man with the great career, not. Think what could have happened if those road blocks to check tires never happened, if that woman who was kidnapped/killed was taken in the summer, when no tire tracks would have been left.

 

I know there is so much more to this story that can be found online, but ... no thanks. This was enough for me. I'm just glad he was caught and put away.

 

My take away from most of these Datelines is, never let anyone take an insurance policy out on your life. (Not that it applied in this case.)

Edited August 16, 2015 by saber5055

[UsernameFatigue]

I have to say this story hit too close to home - and still does watching the epi over 5 years after the monster was caught. I am Canadian, and grew up in the same small town as the mother of Williams' last murder victim Jessica. (Two towns over from where WIlliams had his cottage on the lake and ultimately killed Jessica). I did not know Roxanne well as she is a few years older than I am, but our brothers were friends, and Jessica's grandmother still lives in my hometown.

 

It is indeed chilling to know that Williams could lead a 'normal' life, even excel at his chosen profession and have such responsibility. Yet not only have a Jekyll/Hyde personality but to get away with so many crimes before he was caught.

 

I just read today that the second victim that Williams tied up and assaulted won a settlement with the OPP (Ontario Provincial Police) over her treatment by them, and the fact that the first assult just down the road from her was not made known to the residents in the area, or the lingerie thefts from over two years previously. I am glad for her, and that changes have been made. It is just too bad that he was not caught until two women died. Evil really does come in many forms.

Edited August 17, 2015 by UsernameFatigue

[auntjess]

 

Think what could have happened if those road blocks to check tires never happened,

This was my thought, too.  Scary to think about.

[UsernameFatigue]

Re: the tires, apparently Williams did not always drive that vehicle so had he been driving a different vehicle on the day that the check was done he would not have aroused suspicion. I also found it interesting that he wore the same boots to the interview as the ones he wore when he abducted Jessica. Obviously Williams thought he was much smarter than the police and that he could literally get away with murder. Considering that he had gotten away with the break ins, assaults and one murder over a period of a couple of years his arrogance was not a surprise. And the distance between the various crime scenes certainly made it difficult to connect the dots.

Edited August 18, 2015 by UsernameFatigue

[glowlights]

Wasn't it said that during a custody hearing that Lee was totally acting up, in front of the judge?

 

Yes. To the extent that the judge ordered a bailiff (?) to stand behind Lee with his hands on her shoulders to keep her in her seat, because of her uncontrolled outbursts. Odd to me that her friend said she never saw any anger or unstable behavior from Lee, yet it was on full display right there in the courtroom...

 

Forgive me if this sounds a bit extreme, but Savanna's attitude reminds me of some cult victims after their leader has been exposed. There is a certain level of cognitive dissonance that occurs, and for some the instinct is to dig in their heels and even increase support for the leader, rather than face the awful truth that everything has been a lie. Sometimes they will misdirect their anger and blame the authorities and fellow victims. Just my impression. I hope Savanna gets some really good help in dealing with this upheaval.

[Taylorh2]

A high-school tutor is charged with having an illegal relationship with a 15-year-old student, leading to an emotional courtroom battle.

A Michigan police detective investigates what appears to be a romantic relationship between a tutor Abigail Simon and a high school sophomore....... She was 33. He was 15

Wow ! I just wanted to smack that stupid smirk off her face. She actually believes that she was his victim.

She said "He owned me"

[Greecelover]

Right beind you, Taylorh2.

Talk about having a few screws loose.

I was dying to hear what the jury had to say.....

[Taylorh2]

Did you notice that she didn't display any emotion when the jury found her guilty on 4 counts. NONE. Her family was boohooing right behind her but her, NOTHING.

 

My dh said that if he could he would have punched her lawyer in the face because after her guilty verdict, her lawyer said something along the lines of  (speaking about the kid she had the relationship with) 'now he's free to victimize other women;

[editorgrrl]

As I wrote in the "Most Memorable Episodes" thread after the original airing (Thursday, June 4, 2015, at 8 p.m.):

I laughed at the end when Abigail Simon said she should've plead guilty and served five months in jail. Instead, she admitted to having sex with a 15-year-old boy on multiple occasions but insisted she was the "victim."

She can't claim to have received poor legal advice—her father's a lawyer. Did they think a tutor raping a child is not a crime when the victim is a boy and the perpetrator a woman? Or did she refuse the plea deal because it required her to register as a sex offender—which would keep her away from young boys? (The show mentioned rumors this wasn't her first offense.)

There was zero suspense for me this episode—I couldn't even imagine a jury having reasonable doubt. There were more than 1,000 text messages. He was 15. She was in a position of authority. The relationship went on for months. He was 15.

The victim's still a minor. I was glad his mother refused to let Dateline show his face or name him.

Edited August 18, 2015 by editorgrrl

[Taylorh2]

I'm glad his mother wouldn't allow him to be interviewed.

 

I wonder if the judge would have been more lenient with sentencing if she had taken responsibility for what she had done. She sat there in the face of overwhelming evidence that she was a willing part of the "relationship" claiming that she was "His victim"

[Taylorh2]

Dear criminals: Always accept the plea agreement.

Hahaha. Yep.

[A.Ham]

No kidding. I know this is not the same show, but I just finished watching a 48 Hours show about an asshole who killed his wife (he had been given an ultimatum by his mistress to choose one woman to stay with, so naturally his solution was to kill his wife, foreseeing the added bonus of a 100k insurance money). The victim's family was grief-stricken and exhausted, but came to the decision to support the DA in offering a plea deal for a 16 year sentence. The arrogant jerk initially indicated he would accept it, until the day of the plea when he suddenly changed his mind and plead not guilty.

Lo and behold, they go through the trial, and he was found guilty, and got life w/o parole. He is appealing, but I from my POV he was guilty as sin, and was glad justice was served.

[cooksdelight]

 

Kate Snow explores the 2004 abduction of 19-year-old Oregon student Brooke Wilberger and how a similar abduction in New Mexico helped crack the case. The report includes interviews with family members and former New Mexico governor Bill Richardson

 

A repeat, but new to the forum. :)

[cooksdelight]

Another rerun airing tonight 8/21/2015...

 

 

The fatal 2009 shooting of a Michigan woman is investigated. Her husband surfaces as a prime suspect, but the emergence of a stranger with new evidence then turns the case upside down. Josh Mankiewicz reports.

 

[saber5055]

I only got to see a few minutes of this one, and came here to read and find out if I'd seen it before. Where IS everyone? LOL!

[walnutqueen]

I'm here!  Just don't have anything new to say, since this one's been done to death.  :-)

[JudyObscure]

Making children testify against their parents, while recusing spouses from testifying against each other, always seems backward to me. In my world the parent-child bond is stronger.

I hate that they call this a classic spousal abuse case. Stephanie didn't seem "classic," to me at all. She wasn't a terrified woman gathering her children and running from her spouse. She had an affair, she tried to get a married man she hadn't known long enough to sleep with to leave his wife for her, she was ready to leave her children for him, she got a restraining order over spanking, she didn't want it served until after a nice romantic weekend, and then she boldly tells her husband she still loves him but she has found her soul mate. Believe me if my husband said that soul-mate crap to me I would see red myself. So she safely leaves and then comes back. What the heck?

Of course she didn't deserve what happened to her, but I thought her bad dancing on stage and thinking the other man was in love with all spoke of someone rather silly and vain and not at all the sort of woman who should stand as an example of what to do when trapped in a dangerous marriage.

I knew hubs had done it when he said that when the police told him they had found her in the river he "went into convulsions." Way to exaggerate dumb wife-killer.

[applecrisp]

Had not seen this before.  I have to say the evidence was weak and so I was happy with the outcome.  Of course if there is more info we did not get.  I think the police  decided on him and never looked at anyone else.  I. however did not see any "Perry Mason" type moments.  It was good the people came forward about the white vehicle.

[Ohmo]

I'm the exact opposite of applecrisp.  I think Tom did do it and got away with it.  I think Heath nailed it.  Who else could have done it?  I know that it can be said that the police might not have investigated more suspects, but I think the defense had an easier time because all they had to do was bring in these people who saw these cars.  If I were a juror, I'd want the defense to not only show me the cars but find me the young guy in the car with the dark hair.  Or any of the stuff that was taken from the house.  Or evidence that the information in the documents that were taken was used nafariously by a party other than Tom.  Unless I wasn't paying close enough  attention, the absence of evidence was evidence against Tom.  At least it was for me.

 

I also don't buy that Tom kissing Amber (or whatever her name is) was grief.  People do grieve differently, but I'm a cynic in that I hear that excuse a lot when I watch these crime shows.  Too convenient of an excuse, in my opinion.

 

Hearsay or not, I also think there's a good chance that Tom did break the window, but he didn't do it on the day of the murder.  He just used that information and advanced the date forward.  I also disagree with the juror (video on NBC.com) who said that Tom wasn't manipulative.  I think he was a very clever user of that "Aw, shucks.  I'm from the wholesome Midwest" routine.

 

Sometimes the bad guy unfortunately gets away.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Ohmo

[saber5055]

There were so many unanswered questions and missing information in this episode. First, the two boys were waiting in the car to go to the party, and Tom went back inside the house "for a while" before driving them to the party. THEN, the boys were out playing around the barns before going to the party. What? Tom is going to a neighbor's house for a party and he's hauling window frames around? And dropping them? 

 

Where was the shotgun that killed Dee? Didn't anyone try to find that? If Tom killed her the day of the party, he'd have to have hidden the gun somewhere.

 

Did Dunham's have a receipt for sale of shotgun shells and a shotgun? Did anyone check that? Wouldn't Tom's prints have been on the shells if one of his prints was on the bag?

 

Where did all the stuff go that Tom said was missing from the house?

 

Why was the woman afraid when she saw the white car leave the farm? Afraid of what? If the guy living there was being tried for murder, why wouldn't you come forward anonymously if needed? And then those other people all of a sudden came forward about seeing vehicles? Who were those people? Where did they live? Were they related to Tom in some way?

 

For Heath to be allowed to testify at the second trial after he had been living with very biased people was a huge mistake and should not have been allowed. 

 

How many people, male and female, have affairs or try to have affairs without wanting a divorce or wanting to kill their spouse? Raise your hand, some 90 percent of American married people. Ashley Madison. Tom putting the moves on some woman after Dee's death means nothing IMO. He's a guy.

 

Unless the call was long distance, why wouldn't Tom just call to see where Dee was and why she was late. Why leave a party. Or give the neighbor a couple bucks to pay for the call if it IS long distance. 

 

All in all, a very unsatisfactory episode.

[LakeGal]

I've seen this case before.  I have always felt the husband did it.  They didn't convince me differently with all these people suddenly coming forward about strange cars.  This reminds me of the case where the wife was killed on 9/11.  A long time later a witness came forward about seeing someone else (not the husband) on the road that night.  I am always suspicious when people wait so long to come forward about a very public case.  I want more details to prove they really saw what they did and when it was,      

[zxy556575]

I think murderers way overdo it on their 911 calls -- the hiccuping sobs, the screaming, the anguish, the inability to get coherent words out. Tom falls into that category for me.

[cooksdelight]

I remember seeing this when it first aired. I think the husband didn't do it. I think she had a student, a teenage boy, who had a crush on her. And she naturally didn't return his feelings. The woman who witnessed a young man, with a scared look on his face clutching the steering wheel, flying out onto the road... you don't make something like that up. At the time when it happened, she didn't put two and two together until she read about the trial in the newspaper.

 

Yes, the husband flirted with other women. But the prosecutor focused in on him and no one else. Which is always a huge mistake. You have to leave all options open for who knows what.

[saber5055]

The way this show was edited made the husband look guilty. There never was a mention of a school-boy crush on the wife, which would have led the investigation in another direction, and maybe the correct one. I really think that is a good angle, and should have been pursued. Or at least mentioned.

 

As for the 911 call, I always wonder how I would sound calling in the obvious murder of someone. I'm incredibly cool-headed under stress and will jump into an accident scene to help victims with bloody bone fractures and whatever else. I would never stand around and scream, I take action. So if my spouse were murdered and my 911 call was played, everyone would no doubt say, "That Saber wasn't even upset on that call, for sure Saber is the murderer."

 

Like I said before, this show left WAY too much stuff out. Dateline (and other similar shows) usually are edited to make viewers think one person is guilty, then in the last five minutes reveals the real killer. They just forgot to reveal the real killer this time.

Edited August 22, 2015 by saber5055

[applecrisp]

I sort of had a problem with the testimony of the young friend who said he knew what a gun sounded like because he had gone to camp.  This changed his story and the prosecutor said that their stories were the strongest.  Also, he had been inappropriate with the women but did not have an affair.

 

Did he gain much money?  I did not hear about a big inheritance or life insurance policy.   It seemed like they only looked at the husband.  I just did not think there was enough evidence to convict. 

[JudyObscure]

I agree with everyone. Which I guess means reasonable doubt in this "juror."

Applecrisp, Tom got $310,000 from a life insurance policy but, as he said, he had a mortgage. Her income over time was worth more than that, but lots of people don't see the long term, just freedom from marriage and a nice chunk of cash.

Saber quote:

How many people, male and female, have affairs or try to have affairs without wanting a divorce or wanting to kill their spouse? Raise your hand, some 90 percent of American married people. Ashley Madison. Tom putting the moves on some woman after Dee's death means nothing IMO. He's a guy.

Yep. A man putting moves on a young woman he's alone with who maybe was hugging and patting on him? As Saber says, he's a guy, whether he loved his wife or not.

I wonder if the White-Car Man was speeding out of someone else's driveway and she mixed it up. What robber goes upstairs to shoot someone in a shower when he could have stayed downstairs and taken the TV?

[saber5055]

What robber goes upstairs to shoot someone in a shower when he could have stayed downstairs and taken the TV?

 

 

Plus, if she's in the shower, she wouldn't have even seen much less caught a burglar anyway. So why bother adding murder to a burglary charge?

[cooksdelight]

Those actions are what makes me think it was a disgruntled teenage boy who had a crush on her which she didn't reciprocate. He may have been at the home before and knew the layout. He comes over, makes a pass, she rebuffs him... she thinks he's left, she goes to take a shower. He's still there, comes back in and kills her. The old "If I can't have you, nobody can" thinking.

[Ohmo]

I wonder if the White-Car Man was speeding out of someone else's driveway and she mixed it up.

 

I had the same thought.

 

Those actions are what makes me think it was a disgruntled teenage boy who had a crush on her which she didn't reciprocate. He may have been at the home before and knew the layout. He comes over, makes a pass, she rebuffs him... she thinks he's left, she goes to take a shower. He's still there, comes back in and kills her. The old "If I can't have you, nobody can" thinking.

 

I'm genuinely asking this.  Was this theory advanced by the defense at all, and I missed it?  (Came in late after a commercial.  That sort of thing.)  Otherwise, this theory is a stretch for me.

[cooksdelight]

I'm not sure if the defense brought it up, to be honest. But the woman clearly saw a young man speeding away from the house in a white vehicle. She said she didn't put it all together until the trial was in the newspaper. She seemed honest, to me. The police were so laser focused on the husband that they never bothered to look at anyone else....which always bugs me because most of the time it will come out later that someone else did it and the police botched the investigation.

[Ina123]

I'll always believe the husband did it. I feel sorry for the son. As far as the witness to the white car, I just think she's mistaken of the day and/or the place. She waited too long to come forward. You can talk yourself into stuff after awhile. I'd feel differently if he had called from the party and then left to check because of no answer. Just doesn't make sense.

[Ina123]

It's about time.  I wish they could nail Pam Hupp.

I would love to see that trial and watch her sweat. We ALL know what happened.

[cooksdelight]

The disappearance of a 20-year-old honors student causes her family to fear the worst; decades later, the mystery is solved.

Re-airing tonight at 9.