All Episodes Discussion

[Irlandesa]

I never saw this episode before but I do think I saw the Law & Order episode based on this story (S09.E07: Venom).

And I think there's a Cold Case episode similar to it too. 

[GiandujaPie]

Deadly Mirage

Didn't realize there was a podcast about this. I'm going to listen to it on my next roadtrip to see if there was any more information. Was this basically a repeat to promote the podcast? It was marked as a new episode for us but there didn't seem to be any updated information. I thought we were going to find out at the end that her conviction got overturned or sent back for a new trial or something. 

I'm not sure what other evidence they had to convict Brina, the wife, other than her boyfriend's testimony and the wiretapped phone calls. From what they showed, she didn't actually say she was involved. However, every time she talked to the detectives and then to the boyfriend, she would be relieved that they didn't actually have anything or say they were fine and then they would pray. Who would say they were fine after finding out there was nothing new in the case unless you were worried you would get caught? 

Basically the "wolfpack" friendship group was a swinger club? 

[iMonrey]

22 hours ago, TVbitch said:

They didn't say what she died of, only that she died after serving 16 years of her life sentence. 

She died of heart failure.

[iMonrey]

Under The Bay Bridge:

I had a hard time taking the defense attorney seriously in his checkerboard patterned suit. At some point when Josh was interviewing him I noticed there were two suits, both checkered in pattern, and in some shots he wore a pink tie, and in others, a purple tie with pink polka dots. And Josh's clothes kept changing too. He must have been interviewed twice - perhaps once before the trial and once after - and the show edited it together to look like one interview.

This was strange. The show spent the first hour and forty five minutes lionizing Bob Lee so it seemed like the case was pretty open and shut. But in the last fifteen minutes or so I did start to wonder if maybe Nima did act in self defense after they produced that security footage of Bob with what looked like the knife. Both these guys were coked out of their minds, so who knows what really happened.

I'm about 50/50 on it. It sounds like Bob was accused of assaulting Nima's sister so there's something strong about the prosecution's case but I can see why the jury took seven days to reach a verdict.

[badgerwoman]

52 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

 

I'm about 50/50 on it. It sounds like Bob was accused of assaulting Nima's sister so there's something strong about the prosecution's case but I can see why the jury took seven days to reach a verdict.

I figured it took them that long to decide between first and second, so the time makes sense.  Nima's defense was strange - he didn't know the knife went into Bob's chest twice?  

 

 

[Irlandesa]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'm about 50/50 on it. It sounds like Bob was accused of assaulting Nima's sister so there's something strong about the prosecution's case but I can see why the jury took seven days to reach a verdict.

Unless I missed something, Bob wasn't accused of assaulting Nima's sister.  It was Bob's friend, the drug dealer, who may have groped her. In the defense's defense, having Nima plan to kill Bob for the actions of an acquaintance that the sister let stay in the house and give her drugs feels like a major stretch.  There's nothing in the set up that made it seem like Bob was setting the sister up for his friend. 

[pdlinda]

6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'm about 50/50 on it. It sounds like Bob was accused of assaulting Nima's sister so there's something strong about the prosecution's case but I can see why the jury took seven days to reach a verdict.

I think the jury got the verdict right.  The thing that disturbed me about the episode, however, is the attempt by many being interviewed (like his brother) to minimize (almost condone) Bob Lee's "lifestyle" and the level of RISKY BEHAVIORS practiced by him AND his associates (all of whom had social status and a lot of $$$).  The level of drug use among all the players make it IMPOSSIBLE (in my mind) to determine exactly what happened and/or why because everyone was so impaired.  I would agree that Nima killed Bob for whatever reason, but, although it's NEVER OK TO BLAME A VICTIM OF CRIME, I would say that Bob Lee's CHOICE of "lifestyle" made his eventual demise more likely.  For such a "genius" to not understand and/or concede that if anything within his control could cause his death, the DEVASTATING AFFECT of such a gruesome, traumatic event on his CHILDREN (FAMILY) would be LIFE ALTERING, is problematic. 

[Annber03]

3 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Unless I missed something, Bob wasn't accused of assaulting Nima's sister.  It was Bob's friend, the drug dealer, who may have groped her. In the defense's defense, having Nima plan to kill Bob for the actions of an acquaintance that the sister let stay in the house and give her drugs feels like a major stretch.  There's nothing in the set up that made it seem like Bob was setting the sister up for his friend. 

Correct. That's what kept stumping people for so long, why Nna would kill Bob instead of the guy who harassed his sister. Unless he felt Bob knew about the harassment somehow and did nothing to stop it, perhaps?

But yeah, honestly, I mean...they were both high out of their minds and were involved with drug deals and whatnot, that alone would be plenty reason enough for a fight to break out nd for Nina to kill Bob. Everything with the sister* seems like a red herring more than anything else, especially since, again, there's no evidence Bob had anything to do with that. 

And that's why I think the verdict was correct, too - first degree murder indicates some kind of premeditation and planning, right? There's no indication that was the case here. Second degree seems about right - they got in a heated fight, one had a knife on the other, a struggle occurred and one man wound up dead in the end. 

*I was a little bugged by how people seemed to brush off her claims of harassment, or downplayed it as "Oh, it was just a flirty thing." Even if it'd started as a flirty thing, that doesn't mean there can't possbly be any truth to her claims. 

In other related topics, wow, Elon Musk felt the need to weigh in with his idiotic and misinformed opinion on a situation that didn't concern him? I'm shocked, I tell you. 

Edited February 8 by Annber03

[JudyObscure]

I know the show likes to paint all the victims as perfect people and that's a nice thing, but to hear people describe Bob's non-stop, weekend long drug binges as "he likes to enjoy himself," and  "he can work so hard because he plays so hard," as if being stoned for 48 hours makes you a smarter and more creative person on Monday?  Just stop, young people might actually start to believe that stuff.

 

[iMonrey]

2 hours ago, Annber03 said:

In other related topics, wow, Elon Musk felt the need to weigh in with his idiotic and misinformed opinion on a situation that didn't concern him? I'm shocked, I tell you. 

The story didn't need that bit of information but I'm glad Dateline included it anyway. Musk is such an asshole, why did he feel the need to weigh in and shit all over San Francisco when he knew jack squat about the case?

2 hours ago, pdlinda said:

The thing that disturbed me about the episode, however, is the attempt by many being interviewed (like his brother)

Bob and his brother couldn't have looked less alike if they were from different planets. I wondered whether one or both were adopted.

8 hours ago, badgerwoman said:

I figured it took them that long to decide between first and second, so the time makes sense.  Nima's defense was strange - he didn't know the knife went into Bob's chest twice?  

He was drunk and high as a kite. They both were. I found it somewhat plausible that he acted in self defense, thinking Bob was fine and throwing the knife over the fence so he couldn't come at him again. Then panicking when he found out he was dead because Bob is this big time tech mogul and Nima was an immigrant from Iran. I wasn't clear on whether or not he had US citizenship.

That said - I could be persuaded either way. Weird case, and one way or another, nobody is arguing that Nima stabbed Bob.

[Ohmo]

2 hours ago, Annber03 said:

And that's why I think the verdict was correct, too - first degree murder indicates some kind of premeditation and planning, right?

Yes, but if Mima took the knife from his sister's kitchen, that's an act of premeditation and planning.  I remember hearing some Dateline case years ago where an attorney said that premeditation and planning don't have to mean planning that's done over days or weeks.  Planning can mean hours or even minutes.

There was the phone call that Jeremy overheard.  The sister's texts even mentioned her brother's reaction.  Then Mima offers to give Bob a ride and he's calm and no longer angry?  All of that smacks of premeditation to me.

And all of the "we were coked out of our minds" talk seems awfully convenient.  These people were heavy users.  Their tolerance was high.  The sister's texts to Bob seemed coherent.  Even mortally wounded, Bob was able to walk for a distance, and his 911 call gave the indication he was stabbed but not high on drugs.  They were all able to be semi-functional on drugs, so no, I don't think they were coked out of their minds.  Mima and Kasae just wanted everyone to think that.

I think there was enough premeditation to have found him guilty of first-degree murder.

[Peanut6711]

8 hours ago, pdlinda said:

I think the jury got the verdict right.  The thing that disturbed me about the episode, however, is the attempt by many being interviewed (like his brother) to minimize (almost condone) Bob Lee's "lifestyle" and the level of RISKY BEHAVIORS practiced by him AND his associates (all of whom had social status and a lot of $$$).  The level of drug use among all the players make it IMPOSSIBLE (in my mind) to determine exactly what happened and/or why because everyone was so impaired.  I would agree that Nima killed Bob for whatever reason, but, although it's NEVER OK TO BLAME A VICTIM OF CRIME, I would say that Bob Lee's CHOICE of "lifestyle" made his eventual demise more likely.  For such a "genius" to not understand and/or concede that if anything within his control could cause his death, the DEVASTATING AFFECT of such a gruesome, traumatic event on his CHILDREN (FAMILY) would be LIFE ALTERING, is problematic. 

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I know the show likes to paint all the victims as perfect people and that's a nice thing, but to hear people describe Bob's non-stop, weekend long drug binges as "he likes to enjoy himself," and  "he can work so hard because he plays so hard," as if being stoned for 48 hours makes you a smarter and more creative person on Monday?  Just stop, young people might actually start to believe that stuff.

100% on both of these⬆️

Count me in on being utterly disgusted that their drug use lifestyle was brushed off and even normalized because they were rich tech guys who worked hard. 🙄  I don't care how many hours in a week you put in, if you spend your weekend drug binging, you're still a loser who makes poor life choices. 

[iMonrey]

I also wondered why Bob didn't tell the 9-1-1 operator who stabbed him. He kept saying someone stabbed me, help help, like he didn't know who it was. If I was attacked and knew my attacker and thought I was going to die, I'd make damn sure the authorities knew who it was. That's another thing that made me think, yeah, maybe it was Bob who tried to stab Nima, they struggled over the knife and Bob ended up getting stabbed himself. You wouldn't want to tell that to 9-1-1.

[UsernameFatigue]

11 hours ago, Peanut6711 said:

100% on both of these⬆️

Count me in on being utterly disgusted that their drug use lifestyle was brushed off and even normalized because they were rich tech guys who worked hard. 🙄  I don't care how many hours in a week you put in, if you spend your weekend drug binging, you're still a loser who makes poor life choices. 

My thoughts too.

I did some googling as I wondered if there was any more info on the case. One thing I came across (not about the case itself) was that Bob's brother started a GoFundMe to raise money for the family as he said that Bob's assets were frozen. At the time of the article he had only raised around $8,000 of the $50,000 ask. Some wondered why the family couldn't just get a loan based on his worth, to hold them over. Odd.

The other odd thing is that several sites reported Bob's net worth to be $10 million. One site said $16 million. That seems very low for someone who had a hand in inventing products that sold billions. Did he blow a bunch (no pun intended)? Ten million is not a lot of money, at all. I would not consider that to be in the "wealthy" category, and certainly not what the episode was alluding to with regards to his wealth. 

Edited February 9 by UsernameFatigue

[pdlinda]

18 hours ago, Ohmo said:

They were all able to be semi-functional on drugs, so no, I don't think they were coked out of their minds.  Mima and Kasae just wanted everyone to think that.

I think juries have a hard time deciding how much weight to give to a defendant charged with murder who is a drug addict. 

I noted that Nima hired what I presume to be a very high-priced lawyer from Miami (the $20,000 gold Rolex watch was a marker in my drawing that conclusion) so, on that basis, the lawyer did his job in getting his client a 2nd degree verdict. 

I understand that the sister was married (open marriage) to a wealthy plastic surgeon in Beverly Hills.  However, I was wondering where the family's wealth originated as they were all living a very upscale lifestyle.

[Ohmo]

6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

That's another thing that made me think, yeah, maybe it was Bob who tried to stab Nima,

Bob stabbing Nima is a stretch for me.  Why?  I don't buy that Bob would suddenly start stabbing Nima, even if Bob were on drugs.  There's no reason for Bob to do that, and I don't think he would just suddenly decide "Hey, I'm going to stab someone right now."  He was a frequent drug user and that behavior was not something he ever did before.

Even though Nima's motive is a stretch, it's the more plausible of the two men. Bob had no reason to suddenly want to stab Nima.  Nima, however, had beef with Bob.  Jeremy overhearing the conversation and Kasar's texts to Bob confirm that.

It's also typical for a defense attorney to blame someone else, particularly someone who's dead.

I think Bob not naming Mina on the 911 call was simply Bob focusing on getting help for himself, like "I need help NOW!"  I don't think he was at all focused on the possibility of dying and naming his killer.  He was trying to get help...from 911, from the car at the light, from that call box, from anyone.

Also, if Nima and Bob were in close quarters, Bob is the only one that has any stab words, and Nima is able to turn the knife without getting any knicks at all.  BS.  Pure defense attorney BS, IMO.

[JudyObscure]

I thought it was interesting that Nima said Bob wanted to go to a strip club so Nima said to Bob, "Why do you want to do that you're a married man?"  and then Bob went off on him. 

It sounds unlikely, but I actually saw that conversation happen between two men who were part of our social group long ago.  The married man, who was usually an easy going nice-guy, suddenly got very angry when he was criticized that way.  These guys like Bob who "everyone loves," are used to being liked and admired and don't always take it well when someone goes against them.

[pdlinda]

34 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

"Why do you want to do that you're a married man?"  and then Bob went off on him. 

Bob WASN'T a MARRIED MAN...He was divorced.

[UsernameFatigue]

1 hour ago, pdlinda said:

Bob WASN'T a MARRIED MAN...He was divorced.

Not to mention, there are likely as many married men in strip clubs as single men.

I find so much about Bob's life leading up to the stabbing, odd.  He told many people that he was relocating to Miami because of the increase of drugs and crime in San Francisco. This was widely reported before his reckless lifestyle was uncovered.

Considering his lifestyle, I can't imagine that he would have been any safer in Miami. So that reason  does not ring true.  I think his brother said in the show that he moved to live with his father, but his father lived in SF as well and they both moved to Miami. I also find it odd that he would leave his two teenage children in drug and crime ridden San Francisco, and move across the country where he obviously would not be seeing them as often as he would if he was still living in the same area. 

Not to blame the victim, but I think besides his reckless lifestyle contributing to his death, there was more to his life and possible move that his family did not want to divulge. Which is their right of course, but painting him as a saint as they did does not add up either. 

[pdlinda]

1 hour ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Not to blame the victim, but I think besides his reckless lifestyle contributing to his death, there was more to his life and possible move that his family did not want to divulge. Which is their right of course, but painting him as a saint as they did does not add up either. 

Agreed!  The point I made upthread that he would have CONSCIOUSLY practiced such a risky lifestyle jeopardizing the safety and security of his 2 children is confirmed by your comment. 

There was another poster who pointed out that Bob's estate was VERY PALTRY...maybe $10 million that, after various disbursements involved with his death, is very measly in view of the HUGE proceeds he received through the years for his tech inventions. 

Yes, I agree with you.  There are many unanswered questions regarding Bob.

[badgerwoman]

49 minutes ago, pdlinda said:

 

There was another poster who pointed out that Bob's estate was VERY PALTRY...maybe $10 million that, after various disbursements involved with his death, is very measly in view of the HUGE proceeds he received through the years for his tech inventions.

And I bet his ex wife is worth at least 10 million - California is a community property state, she got half of what he had at the time of divorce, I'm sure.

[pdlinda]

4 minutes ago, badgerwoman said:

And I bet his ex wife is worth at least 10 million

If there was even that much money left...who knows what his balance sheet contained because regardless of how "functional" he appeared IN SPITE OF HIS VARIOUS DRUG, AND OTHER ADDICTIONS, my belief is that he was escalating his risky behaviors and, Heaven only knows who he was associating with and how much he owed various people at the time of his death.  

Anyhow, the ex-wife mentioned a "boyfriend" and her "working" so my belief is she not as financially "set" as would have been the case if Bob's circumstances were different than they actually were.  The kids, also, will need ongoing and continuing therapy to deal with the issues left to them by their father, so there's that....

[LuvMyShows]

On 2/9/2025 at 11:57 AM, iMonrey said:

I also wondered why Bob didn't tell the 9-1-1 operator who stabbed him. He kept saying someone stabbed me, help help, like he didn't know who it was. If I was attacked and knew my attacker and thought I was going to die, I'd make damn sure the authorities knew who it was. That's another thing that made me think, yeah, maybe it was Bob who tried to stab Nima, they struggled over the knife and Bob ended up getting stabbed himself. You wouldn't want to tell that to 9-1-1.

From having seen quite a few shows with such dying-help situations, often the person's body and mind are in an altered state, and all they can do is process the most basic level of survival actions.

On 2/2/2025 at 2:20 AM, TVbitch said:

... and whatever it is he is trying to do to redeem himself sounded like a scam. 

Amen to that. By stating the requirement for $1M, it completely sends off the scam warning bells, especially since the show gave no indication that he was doing anything already to achieve anything towards accomplishing what he can prior to receiving $1M.

[seasons]

“Return to the Lake” 2/14/25

oh, this is hard to watch.

That poor man, Mr. Smith, that is Michael and Alex‘s father. He looks terrible. Just went through the parole hearing for that monster that killed them. Thank goodness she was denied, but this is just aged him. He looks terrible. He looks sick. I feel so bad because I know he has a family, I think maybe two children. I pray for him.

[AZChristian]

11 hours ago, seasons said:

“Return to the Lake” 2/14/25

oh, this is hard to watch.

That poor man, Mr. Smith, that is Michael and Alex‘s father. He looks terrible. Just went through the parole hearing for that monster that killed them. Thank goodness she was denied, but this is just aged him. He looks terrible. He looks sick. I feel so bad because I know he has a family, I think maybe two children. I pray for him.

I believe that in the show, they said that he and his wife had one daughter.

I read a news report about Susan Smith a week or so ago.  They said that leading up to the latest parole hearing she was a model prisoner.  Helping the other prisoners, staying in good rapport with the guards, etc.  Then, when she got turned down, she threw a tantrum.  The other prisoners said, "She thinks she rules the roost here, but she's just like the rest of us."

I hope she has reason to throw a tantrum every two years for the rest of her life.

[iMonrey]

Revisiting the Susan Smith case. The woman belongs behind bars. I don't care what kind of mental issues she might have or whatever the latest argument is. What she did was so horrific she deserves to spend the rest of her life in prison. It doesn't matter whether you believe she's changed and would never harm anyone again. There are just some things you can't come back from. And if she were truly repentant she would acknowledge that and understand she's exactly where she's supposed to be.

[TVbitch]

That man looks like he has so much grief and anger still bottled up inside him. I hope he is still in therapy, cuz as much as he says he has "forgiven" Susan, he clearly has not been able to move on and find peace and happiness in the life he has been able to build for himself since.  

[pdlinda]

6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

It doesn't matter whether you pebelieve she's changed and would never harm anyone again. There are just some things you can't come back from. And if she were truly repentant she would acknowledge that and understand she's exactly where she's supposed to be.

If Susan Smith was truly repentant, she would NEVER, EVER have requested parole.  She would serve her time with humility and conscious self reflection and take the prison courses she would need to "counsel" other inmates to try and avoid the outcome she fell victim to committing.  She doesn't need to be released to assist others having similar challenges that she had.  She can do it in prison.

Personally, I would have liked her to have made a statement like that when she was sentenced so that the children's father, David, and his family wouldn't have been put in a position of having to face her at ongoing parole hearings.  

Susan Smith committed a crime that goes beyond the bounds of evil.  There is absolutely no mental health condition that could possibly offset the unspeakable harm she caused her precious children.  NONE!  To THIS DAY, I think of those 2 beautiful children suffocating to death while in their seatbelts not knowing "what hit them" and SOB! 

I remember that case SO WELL and never could understand why she didn't receive the death penalty.  If there was ever a "death penalty case" that was it!!  However, I accept that the jury did what they did and just hope she never sees the light of day beyond the prison walls again!

[Lsk02]

I am against the death penalty, but a system that forces the family of those boys to go through parole hearings every two years for the next forever is beyond ridiculous. I’m guessing David was doing okay with his family and therapy for a long time, but I felt his pain and seething because he realizes this is the new beginning of having to go through this every other year. He can’t settle into forgiveness and healing again, because now he has to relive it all and tell the story over and over. I feel terrible for him, his wife, his daughter, and all of the family that faces this future. 

[TVbitch]

Same for the 48 Hours case this week. No wonder these families still look so broken. It's so hard to get justice, but then you have to fight constantly to uphold the justice. As someone on 48 Hours said, it seems like the only rights that are vigorously and fully protected and exercised are the criminal's rights. 

[pdlinda]

On 2/15/2025 at 7:27 AM, AZChristian said:

Then, when she got turned down, she threw a tantrum.

Susan obviously has personality features that need ongoing and continuing treatment.  Whether she's getting the help she needs in prison is problematic.

I have a question:  The step-father admitted he molested her FOR YEARS!  That a CRIME.  In my state, it's a crime that is a SERIOUS FELONY...YEARS IN PRISON!  In my state there is NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS ON CHILD MOLESTATION OR MURDER.  Why wasn't he ARRESTED by the court officers right there and then?

As a form of contrition, he paid for her defense; however, we can see that Susan's experience being his victim certainly had life-long effects on her mental health. 

Whether she wanted to request his prosecution or not, in my State he would have been arrested and charged with the serious felonies he committed against her.

 

[AZChristian]

11 minutes ago, pdlinda said:

The step-father admitted he molested her FOR YEARS!  That a CRIME.  In my state, it's a crime that is a SERIOUS FELONY...YEARS IN PRISON!  In my state there is NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS ON CHILD MOLESTATION OR MURDER.

From a google search, it appears that the SoL for child molestation in South Carolina is as follows:

(A) An action to recover damages for injury to a person arising out of an act of sexual abuse or incest must be commenced within six years after the person becomes twenty-one years of age or within three years from the time of discovery by the person of the injury and the causal relationship between the injury and the sexual abuse or incest, whichever occurs later.

Not to mention . . . didn't they mention in the story that they began having a sexual relationship again after she reached adulthood?

================

I've often wished there had been an opportunity to press charges against my molester, but karma took care of him for me.  He turned right on red in front of an oncoming garbage truck that was going about 45 MPH.  Ironic, right?  A garbage truck really took out the garbage that day.

I've learned that living well is the best revenge against those who harm us.  After 25+ cruises and lots of wonderful adventures, I'm good!

[pdlinda]

48 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

From a google search, it appears that the SoL for child molestation in South Carolina is as follows:

(A) An action to recover damages for injury to a person arising out of an act of sexual abuse or incest must be commenced within six years after the person becomes twenty-one years of age or within three years from the time of discovery by the person of the injury and the causal relationship between the injury and the sexual abuse or incest, whichever occurs later.

Thanks for the research that answers my question. 

Your success in dealing with the horrendous experience you had as a child is inspirational. 

Unfortunately, Susan can never succeed in life because of the unspeakable crime she committed. 

[Ohmo]

On 2/15/2025 at 9:27 AM, AZChristian said:

I read a news report about Susan Smith a week or so ago.  They said that leading up to the latest parole hearing she was a model prisoner. 

She didn't seem very remorseful during the parole hearing.  There's a detachment, an insincerity to her demeanor.  She seems unaffected but knows she has to go through the motions, yet that's exactly as it comes across---going through the motions.

[Pi237]

It’s infuriating that the victims have to relive this horror every 2 years! I understand the reasoning behind parole, but it’s a cruel system that forces people to relive the most painful times of their life over And over just to make sure the perpetrator actually serves the sentence they Earned through their crimes.  What’s the point-to see if the victims cry hard enough? To see if their pain is still horrible enough? If they don’t cry, does the board assume they’d be ok with the criminal being released? It’s awful. 
 

And It’s unfortunate, but a lot of women are sexually abused. A lot have mental issues. It’s never an excuse to harm others. Especially as an adult. It’s your choice to use your trauma as motivation to heal and do better, or an excuse to do worse.  She made her choice and saved her Own life. 

[iMonrey]

1 hour ago, Pi237 said:

It’s infuriating that the victims have to relive this horror every 2 years! I understand the reasoning behind parole, but it’s a cruel system that forces people to relive the most painful times of their life over And over just to make sure the perpetrator actually serves the sentence they Earned through their crimes.

Even if her ex-husband didn't show up to testify it's quite possible she would have been denied parole anyway. So it's really the victim's choice. Yes, I understand they would be motivated to ensure such an outcome, but they are making a choice to put themselves into that position. I think it's also possible for them to have a statement read so they don't even have to show up in person. 

In Susan's case, I doubt she will ever be paroled. Yeah, a slick defense attorney might lay it on thick about her history of abuse but at the end of the day, she killed her kids. And not by accident. Then lied about it for weeks. As noted elsewhere (and it really goes without saying), lots of people survive abuse and don't grow up to kill their kids. I'd hope any parole board would grasp that simple fact.

[pdlinda]

15 hours ago, Ohmo said:

She didn't seem very remorseful during the parole hearing.  There's a detachment, an insincerity to her demeanor.  She seems unaffected but knows she has to go through the motions, yet that's exactly as it comes across---going through the motions.

Susan is seriously mentally ill.  The prison is mandated to treat her for her condition(s).  I WONDER WHAT MEDS SHE'S ON??  That could materially impact on her presentation for a hearing like this.

1 hour ago, Pi237 said:

saved her Own life. 

....such as it is serving a life sentence in prison. 

Some would term it an "existence." 

I say that having done defense work in the criminal justice system (now retired) for many, many years.