S13.E04: Housewarming History Lesson

[kristen111]

On 3/2/2023 at 10:58 AM, bichonblitz said:

Except Louie was shown sitting with Tre and her two girls doing exactly that! If he wants to help her mend fences why was he agreeing with them that Joe and Mel are lying peices of shit when he wasn't even in the family at the time Tre was in prison? He can't have it both ways. He's a double talking manipulator that can only pull this crap on someone as stupid as Tre. 

I think Joe & Melissa are both full of crap as I believe the girls spoke the truth about them.  Their focus is to keep the feud going to stay relevant on the show to get MONEY.  That’s it.  They need money for that monstrosity they call a house and her expensive chandeliers she has to have and her plastic surgeries.  How long is this feud going on, until Andy finds a new show for them?  You all know how Andy just loves Joe.

 

[Baltimore Betty]

14 hours ago, kristen111 said:

I think Joe & Melissa are both full of crap as I believe the girls spoke the truth about them.

I am thinking there is some middle ground with the stories told, we know the personalities we are dealing with so maybe they are all just a little bit right and a little bit wrong. We know that Teresa has a way of seeing or hearing things not said or done and holding on to those things and we have seen her stare in to space blinking and trying to comprehend what was said. As far as the dorters are concerned, they have grown up not hearing anything good or positive about Joe and Melissa so of course they will side with anyone who speaks badly about them.  

I believe there are three sides to every story, his, hers and the truth.  Looeey is manipulating Teresa and the dorters to only think negatively about J&M, I also believe he watched every single episode of every season then set out to meet Teresa.

[kristen111]

9 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I am thinking there is some middle ground with the stories told, we know the personalities we are dealing with so maybe they are all just a little bit right and a little bit wrong. We know that Teresa has a way of seeing or hearing things not said or done and holding on to those things and we have seen her stare in to space blinking and trying to comprehend what was said. As far as the dorters are concerned, they have grown up not hearing anything good or positive about Joe and Melissa so of course they will side with anyone who speaks badly about them.  

I believe there are three sides to every story, his, hers and the truth.  Looeey is manipulating Teresa and the dorters to only think negatively about J&M, I also believe he watched every single episode of every season then set out to meet Teresa.

Probably.  So, do you think Loooie really loves Tre, or just what she has?  The show, the money, everything?  Her cozy world was just handed to him all because he knows how to play the game.

[twilightzone]

39 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I am thinking there is some middle ground with the stories told, we know the personalities we are dealing with so maybe they are all just a little bit right and a little bit wrong. We know that Teresa has a way of seeing or hearing things not said or done and holding on to those things and we have seen her stare in to space blinking and trying to comprehend what was said. As far as the dorters are concerned, they have grown up not hearing anything good or positive about Joe and Melissa so of course they will side with anyone who speaks badly about them.  

I believe there are three sides to every story, his, hers and the truth.  Looeey is manipulating Teresa and the dorters to only think negatively about J&M, I also believe he watched every single episode of every season then set out to meet Teresa.

But where is the "middle ground" in the above - it's all anti-Teresa, Louie.  First of all, it's not "dorters".  It's Gia and Gabirella, who just said that Joe and Melissa were not around that much - contrary to what they claimed.

Keeping up the family feud has always been the Gorgas meal ticket.  They have nothing else- with all their fake storylines.

Now they're pushing the pettiness of the wedding, because with Teresa married and BRAVO casting new HW's, they see the show moving in a different direction.

If not for the show, they could care less whether Melissa is a bridesmaid or if her family was invited.

 

[SweetieDarling]

Just because Gia and Gabriella don't remember Joe & Mel being around, doesn't necessarily mean they weren't. This happened about 9 years ago, the girls were in school and at dance and sports practices a lot of the time. I'm not saying Joe & Mel "put food on their table", but it is possible they helped out in ways the girls were unaware of or oblivious to, being that young and distracted by other things.

Andy should Facetime Juicy during the reunion and get his side. 

[sistermagpie]

33 minutes ago, SweetieDarling said:

Just because Gia and Gabriella don't remember Joe & Mel being around, doesn't necessarily mean they weren't. This happened about 9 years ago, the girls were in school and at dance and sports practices a lot of the time. I'm not saying Joe & Mel "put food on their table", but it is possible they helped out in ways the girls were unaware of or oblivious to, being that young and distracted by other things.

Andy should Facetime Juicy during the reunion and get his side. 

Seems unlikely they'd be so off in remembering whether someone was a big part of their life during a time in their life that would pretty clearly stand out because their mother wasn't. I thought they were specifically objecting to the idea that Joe and Melissa spent time with *them* when they weren't filming, not whether they were helping out in any other way. The line about putting food on the table was with regards to agreeing to film with Joe for the special, which we know they actually did do.

[Baltimore Betty]

3 hours ago, kristen111 said:

Probably.  So, do you think Loooie really loves Tre, or just what she has?  The show, the money, everything?  Her cozy world was just handed to him all because he knows how to play the game.

I do not think Looeey would be interested in Teresa if she was not on TV, he thinks he is worthy of fame and fortune but could not get that on his own so he saw that Teresa was ripe for the picking.

[realityplease]

I don't think the viewers will ever know "the truth" about the extent/lack of the Gorgas' involvement during Teresa's prison stint. 

Some conniving liars lie because they know many people believe the trope that there's 3 sides to any dispute - each side with a version & a bit of truth in each - leading to some middle ground 3rd version. Given that, liars assume they won't be disbelieved outright. 

But memory's a tricky thing.  Non-connivers might not outright lie, but people being people, they'll "re-write history" to suit themselves.  Or mishear, misremember or misinterpret.  And might honestly believe in their version - though it may not be factually accurate, it's what they come to believe. 

So there's not always a middle ground.  Sometimes things happen - or don't.  Truth & facts vs. a non-factual version. The truth-teller's version vs. the faulty memory, re-writer, or liar's version.  And NO middle ground.  We heard, e.g., two different versions - Teresa's & Melissa's - as to why the Gorgas were at a friend's table at the engagement party.  One or the other either didn't remember correctly OR recreated history OR lied.  And likely no middle ground.  Someone's version was correct, someone's wasn't. 

The Gorga's involvement during Teresa's absence may be that too.  Probably not lies but what happens when one views things through their own unique lens - whether recreating history, using selective memory, lacking the full story, or misinterpreting events & motivations.  Do Melissa/Joe scheme for air-time? No doubt. Is Teresa a dumb-ass who gets things wrong? No doubt. Were the daughters not around for or not privy to everything the adults did? No doubt. The viewers will likely never know the truth. It certainly hasn't stopped us from taking sides.  But it doesn't mean there's some 3rd version of the "truth" floating out there with little pieces from each side.  There's what happened - actual immutable facts - & varying ways to interpret them - not a 3rd version of "the truth."  The full story is not out there.   

Edited March 5, 2023 by realityplease

[kristen111]

5 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I do not think Looeey would be interested in Teresa if she was not on TV, he thinks he is worthy of fame and fortune but could not get that on his own so he saw that Teresa was ripe for the picking.

I guess.  He just slid right in and got on tv 1, 2, 3.  Not bad.  His full attention is on her every minute, and she’s eating it up.  Not like her life with Joe.

[sistermagpie]

4 hours ago, realityplease said:

Were the daughters not around for or not privy to everything the adults did? No doubt.

But they're not claiming to be privy to everything they did. They're only speaking of time they spent with them. 

I absolutely believe that everybody here has their own memories and I can't speak to whatever the truth is--I haven't even heard whatatever it was that the Gorgas said on the podcast. But it just seems like gaslighting to tell two people that their aunt and uncle became a regular fixture in their everyday lives for a little over a year when they both remember only seeing them when they were filming.

[Genius]

Say what you will about Joe & Melissa, but I will always be Team Gorga over the nightmare that is Teresa. She and her stupidity have haunted our airwaves for over a decade now, and she has only gotten worse. I can't stand her, and I can't even believe she was allowed to come back after last season. Where is the Teresa backlash? She's awful. And I love that Joe & Melissa are finally not taking her shit.

[wallies]

I don't blame Joe for not putting on a brave face and going to the family gathering since his family obviously doesn't respect his feelings. Abusers get away with abuse by saying "but we're family!" If Teresa doesn't respect Joe's feelings that in and of itself is paramount in the relationship. Why doesn't she give a damn about his feelings? She cannot just demand he act a certain way no matter how she treats him.

[snarts]

15 hours ago, wallies said:

I don't blame Joe for not putting on a brave face and going to the family gathering since his family obviously doesn't respect his feelings. Abusers get away with abuse by saying "but we're family!" If Teresa doesn't respect Joe's feelings that in and of itself is paramount in the relationship. Why doesn't she give a damn about his feelings? She cannot just demand he act a certain way no matter how she treats him.

Aww, poor little Joey's feelings are hurt because his sister didn't invite his in-laws to wedding?  Emphasis on HER wedding, not Joey's wedding and Melissa's family who's been nothing but nasty to Teresa for years now. So because his feelings are hurt he decides to continually trash talk his sister, her fiance and his nieces, skip her 50th birthday trip, housewarming party and wedding. Yet, that's her fault somehow?

How exactly has Teresa treated him that's so bad?  Called him out for acting like a bitch boy when he was indeed acting like a bitch boy?  He's said way worse about her on so many occasions. 

Joey needs to grow the fuck up and realize the world doesn't revolve around him and his feelings. Then again, I don't actually believe that he's hurt. I think he's just using that as an excuse to continue feuding with Teresa for a storyline. She could bend over backwards catering to his enormous ego and he'd still find something to complain about because that's the only thing keeping the housewives money coming in.

The way he treated his parents when they were alive tells me all I need to know about how he actually views family. 

[RecoveringLawyer]

6 hours ago, snarts said:

Aww, poor little Joey's feelings are hurt because his sister didn't invite his in-laws to wedding?  Emphasis on HER wedding, not Joey's wedding and Melissa's family who's been nothing but nasty to Teresa for years now. So because his feelings are hurt he decides to continually trash talk his sister, her fiance and his nieces, skip her 50th birthday trip, housewarming party and wedding. Yet, that's her fault somehow?

How exactly has Teresa treated him that's so bad?  Called him out for acting like a bitch boy when he was indeed acting like a bitch boy?  He's said way worse about her on so many occasions. 

Joey needs to grow the fuck up and realize the world doesn't revolve around him and his feelings. Then again, I don't actually believe that he's hurt. I think he's just using that as an excuse to continue feuding with Teresa for a storyline. She could bend over backwards catering to his enormous ego and he'd still find something to complain about because that's the only thing keeping the housewives money coming in.

The way he treated his parents when they were alive tells me all I need to know about how he actually views family. 

Exactly.  Joey's trying to re-write history now that his parents are gone and Juicy's out of the picture.  We all saw the bullshit he pulled at the Christening and in the Catskills, and the nasty words he used to describe his sister then.  He did act like a little "bitch boy" and I cannot imagine any Italian NY or NJ man getting so worked up like he does.  Like Frank, sure.  But Little Gorga?  No f'ing way.

And to be clear, getting worked up about his supposed hurt feelings, not actual slights -- I can totally see half my relatives threatening to f someone up if they said something nasty about their wives/sisters/daughters, but about their own feelings?  Gimma a fuckin break. 

[ZettaK]

There is a longer Bravo video of Gia and Gabriella's conversation about the Gorgas and what they claimed on their podcast. They said that Joe Guidice's family (his brother, sister, mother, father before he died, etc.), and the Papa and Mama Gorga family members (not Joe and Melissa, but other relatives, including Teresa’s mother's relatives) helped the family when Teresa was in prison, but they don't advertise it on the media. 

[hottesthw]

So Melissa says in the podcast at one time the producers of the show were getting rid of everyone, except her. LOL. She really thinks highly of herself doesn’t she?

Anyone else chuckle while watching Melissa and Joe at their new house that “he’s building with his own hands”, as she spins about screeching about her ceilings and chandeliers remembering Tre and Juicy twirling about her new house and all the marble and onyx. The similarities are hysterical. 

Edited March 11, 2023 by hottesthw

[hottesthw]

On 3/5/2023 at 1:27 PM, sistermagpie said:

Seems unlikely they'd be so off in remembering whether someone was a big part of their life during a time in their life that would pretty clearly stand out because their mother wasn't. I thought they were specifically objecting to the idea that Joe and Melissa spent time with *them* when they weren't filming, not whether they were helping out in any other way. The line about putting food on the table was with regards to agreeing to film with Joe for the special, which we know they actually did do.

I think the girls’ biggest issue is not who was or was not there for them at that time but more that no one else who helped them have gone public in an attempt to boost themselves up like the Gorgas have.

The Gorgas are using that one snippet in time as “look at us how great we are, even after how they treated us we did XYZ”. They could have (and should have) left that shit in the past. If they’ve done sooooo much over the years there have to be many other references to use to pump themselves up. 

[Otherkate]

Quote

And I love that Joe & Melissa are finally not taking her shit.

I have to be honest, to me it looks like they're taking her shit and begging for more. I think they know that if she stops reacting, the gravy train ends for them. They've always been pathetic, but this season is dramatically worse. Feels like everyone else has moved on, including the audience.

[Sweet-tea]

On 2/28/2023 at 10:06 PM, Marley said:

Rachel’s nose job is terrible lol. She’s trying too hard too.

It’s mostly the tip that’s the problem. It’s over-projected, pointy and unnatural looking. I wonder if she could get a revision rhino and just have the surgeon reshape the tip and not have to break her nose again. It would probably make the recovery period shorter. 

Whatever the case, Jennifer was rude to comment on it, especially in front of other people. I wonder if she was drunk and her filter was off, assuming she has one. 

Bill doesn’t seem happy with Jennifer, but I’m not clear if it’s real or a TV thing to give her a storyline. 

[kristen111]

I was just thinking about the show and came to this conclusion.  Teresa came on with a good cast of relatives and friends.  Along comes Melissa and Joe Gorga, after practically begging Bravo for a slot on the show. Easy money as Joe doesn’t have a great job to begin with.  Teresa’s not thrilled with them on.  Years of drama from both sides.  Teresa gives in to her parents and tries to have a relationship with the Gorgas.  Melissa is hungry to be a star and Joe needs the money.  Blah, blah, Teresa’s parents die and she meets Loooie.  She doesn’t need to associate with her brother and Melissa anymore as the relationship is toxic.  Melissa is saying she wants to be close again as Joe is in hock to the creditors for building materials and Melissa needs money too.  I wish Tre will cut the cord for once and not be friendly with them anymore.  Joe is a bafoon and Melissa is hungry to be a star.  Looks like they are finished.  No storyline, no jobs.  Joes building the monstrosity of a house .. meanwhile the creditors are after him for non payment of materials.  Teresa is in a good place now and her daughters are doing well .. some in College now.  Looks like she may be done with Melissa?  I might be wrong, but this is how I see things now.  Tre is in the drivers seat.  Joe and Melissa are nervous.  Teresa has a new family now, Looies sisters and Mother, etc.

[Genius]

On 3/11/2023 at 11:19 AM, hottesthw said:

I think the girls’ biggest issue is not who was or was not there for them at that time but more that no one else who helped them have gone public in an attempt to boost themselves up like the Gorgas have.

The Gorgas didn't go public, they already are public. They have every right to comment on their lives as it affects the show and what other people are saying about them.

[hottesthw]

On 3/13/2023 at 11:30 AM, Genius said:

The Gorgas didn't go public, they already are public. They have every right to comment on their lives as it affects the show and what other people are saying about them.

And since they are talking about a very sensitive topic to these girls, the girls have the right to respond accordingly. Which the Gorgas now take as an insult. Before they brought it up no one knew how much they did or did not help Juicy while Tre was “away”.

[ladle]

Ordinarily I don't like to talk about people's appearance, but it seems like she did this to herself voluntarily so I will just say... it was difficult to look at Jennifer's face during that dinner with Bill.

Pre-scalpel, I always thought she was naturally very cute/pretty.  

Sigh. 

[kristen111]

On 3/23/2023 at 2:38 PM, ladle said:

Ordinarily I don't like to talk about people's appearance, but it seems like she did this to herself voluntarily so I will just say... it was difficult to look at Jennifer's face during that dinner with Bill.

Pre-scalpel, I always thought she was naturally very cute/pretty.  

Sigh. 

UGH .. These Housewives.  They get money from Bravo, then run to the Plastic Surgeon first thing.  Like new face Jen Fessler.  She had the whole shebang in one shot.  I don’t see the difference.  Who said she will be back?  She brought nothing, except Tony Soprano.  That’s it.  She’s probably Andy’s neighbor in the Hamptons, lol.

[Baltimore Betty]

2 hours ago, kristen111 said:

Like new face Jen Fessler

I did not see a difference in her before and after so I will call her "New Old Face Fessler."

[kristen111]

2 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I did not see a difference in her before and after so I will call her "New Old Face Fessler."

I saw no difference either.  She said she didn’t recognize herself.  Only difference was she looked very thin.

[mostlylurking]

On 2/28/2023 at 10:30 PM, Misslindsey said:

I admit I laughed at Teresa's chosen family comment, but Melissa, you are included in the chosen family, because you were there! It's your husband that wasn't chosen!

I said the same thing!  Like….they were both invited!  So wouldn’t that mean that they were both chosen family??  It was Joe’s choice not to go and let his wife go alone (which I thought was completely fucked up and I wouldn’t have gone without my husband unless she was contractually obligated).

Delores’ mom looks good and had lost a considerable amount of weight.  Like many others I’m also so over seeing these women’s tata’s hanging down to their knees.  Jesus Christ reign those things in.  They look saggy and horrible.  Teresa’s chest literally looks like a leather handbag, and I do mean literally.  She looks absolutely terrible in that talking head.  Her daughters are so beautiful though.  I hope with getting their college educations and traveling outside Jersey they will get a little more perspective on life.

[mostlylurking]

On 3/23/2023 at 1:38 PM, ladle said:

Ordinarily I don't like to talk about people's appearance, but it seems like she did this to herself voluntarily so I will just say... it was difficult to look at Jennifer's face during that dinner with Bill.

Pre-scalpel, I always thought she was naturally very cute/pretty.  

Sigh. 

Same with Teresa.  When the show first started (I can’t believe this drivel has been on the air for over a decade) I thought she was very cute.  She’s completely destroyed her looks in my opinion.

I have a soft spot for Jen.  I don’t know why.  First of all, it’s not like she went to Marge’s ex friend for gossip.  Ex friend went to Jenn and Teresa.  They listened because they were curious, something Marge would 100% have done.  Then the shit talking with Fessler and the other one with the nose.  Shouldn’t have happened, especially not with Fessler who is close to Marge.  But again, Jen didn’t contact them expressly to shit talk, she called for other reasons and then it sort of gravitated to that.  I’m not saying it’s ok, but it’s not as nefarious as Margaret is saying, probably because Margaret is projecting her own intentions which I do believe are nefarious to start with.

[RealHousewife]

On 3/6/2023 at 3:21 PM, Genius said:

Say what you will about Joe & Melissa, but I will always be Team Gorga over the nightmare that is Teresa. She and her stupidity have haunted our airwaves for over a decade now, and she has only gotten worse. I can't stand her, and I can't even believe she was allowed to come back after last season. Where is the Teresa backlash? She's awful. And I love that Joe & Melissa are finally not taking her shit.

Same. The Gorgas don't have Teresa's meanness or same level of aggression.

Teresa is an awesome Housewife. Her life is always crazy. She's unpredictable. Unintentionally or not, she is funny. She has beautiful "dorters." But the way she treats others is really not a good look. 

I was disappointed that the Gorgas weren't there for the girls when Juicy was away the way they said, but if I were to pick a friend group, it would still be them.

On 3/7/2023 at 8:14 PM, ZettaK said:

There is a longer Bravo video of Gia and Gabriella's conversation about the Gorgas and what they claimed on their podcast. They said that Joe Guidice's family (his brother, sister, mother, father before he died, etc.), and the Papa and Mama Gorga family members (not Joe and Melissa, but other relatives, including Teresa’s mother's relatives) helped the family when Teresa was in prison, but they don't advertise it on the media. 

I'm glad Joe Guidice's family was there for them. Those girls have been through a lot. As much as I prefer the Gorgas to Teresa, the fact even Gabriella spoke up after all these years speaks volumes. I will give Teresa and Joe this, I think they're loving parents, and that's part of why their kids are protective of them.