S21.E01: Bill Barr; Andrew Sullivan; Rep. Nancy Mace

[tessaray]

Real Time returns 01/20/23 for a 21st season.

Bill’s guests are Bill Barr, Andrew Sullivan, and Rep. Nancy Mace.

[candall]

I hope, as the season goes along, he'll have on a token Democrat or two.

[DXD526]

Andrew Sullivan and Bill Barr? Ugh. This looks eminently skip-able. Welcome back, Bill 🤢

[Hanahope]

Usual both sides crap, no push back on the gop, and Sullivan all up in arms about young trans kids.

[DoctorAtomic]

I thought until they started ranting at the end, it was a good show. The congresswoman, seemed reasonable (as in, not really the talking points), fairly witty and engaging. I didn't agree with some of what she said, but if she's actually trying to craft some bipartisan legislation, I mean, as Bill says, 'as good as they get'. Her position on abortion seemed reasonable, and she certainly doesn't want to share a bathroom with Taylor-Green. 

I don't agree with Barr about the fallacy of protecting 'religious freedom'. The whole point of 'leaving it up to the church' or whatever is that their discriminating against minorities in this country. 

I'm with Bill in that they're saying they'll vote 'anyone but Biden' is ridiculous. I can see they'd make a case as to why they'd vote for a DeSantis, but Trump again? This narrative about Biden is being controlled by the 'far left', which is a false equivalent to the actual far right is absurd. What has he done so extremely 'left'? Got a bridge fixed in Kentucky? As Bill said, he's the most clubby politico guy. He's not talking to congress about the debt ceiling because there's nothing to talk about. You're serious about 'fiscal responsibility' this time? For real? Then craft a clean budget bill. 

Sullivan for me was mostly palatable. I don't know what he has against trans kids though. I do think it's fair that people could be overwhelmed with so many social changes, but, at the same time, how many of these people suffered in the past because they couldn't identify as who they really were? Sullivan is correct about fighting for gay rights was hard and tragic. You'd think he'd have some sympathy. I'm also skeptical about kids being put on blockers etc., as minors too. 

I don't have kids so I'm not too dialed into the schools, but I'm having a hard time buying pronouns, etc., are being pushed so hard all the time, and cases they cited, which I'm sure are true may be extreme and rare. I do think they were generally correct about adults needing to be adults at some point. 

OT was actually worth a watch. Barr came out for it. I was surprised he supported more regulation of the tech entities. 

I'm really hoping show fave Katie Porter will be on this season. She's going to be running for Senate.

[Hedgehog2022]

Bill Barr??? Buh??? The guy that fucked with the Mueller report? The guy that openly groveled to be AG? OMG! Bill is trying so hard to expand his audience to the GOP base it's just pitiful. Andrew Sullivan...again? This show is old and irrelevant...HBO needs to stick something else in this time slot.

[Pike Ludwell]

When he's standing, doing his monologue, what's the deal with him always putting his right hand just an inch or so above his crotch with weirdly bent fingers. I started noticing it last year. Is this a thing he's always done and I just haven't noticed. It's just very weird and annoying as hell.

Edited January 22, 2023 by Pike Ludwell

[aghst]

I couldn’t roll my eyes enough at Barr, religion is being persecuted yet the Supreme Court is full of Catholics and white evangelicals are one of the most powerful voting blocs in the country.

I haven’t followed the trans kids issue too much buT I’ve heard of studies showing that early interventions including drugs do have positive impacts on these kids.

That is presumably why Bill and Sullivan mocked science at the end.  They can’t dispute these studies other than to ignore or mock them, not address them substantively.

[cheetahchirps]

2 hours ago, Pike Ludwell said:

When he's standing, doing his monologue, what's the deal with him always putting his right hand just an inch or so above his crotch with weirdly bent fingers. I started noticing it last year. Is this a thing he's always done and I just haven't noticed. It's just very weird and annoying as hell.

I noticed that too. It seemed  meant to draw attention to his dick, and that’s not something I want to think about.

I’m glad he stood up to Barr somewhat, but he really seems placating with him. He needs to call Barr on his BS, the religious nonsense was laughable. I’ve see Mace on Face the Nation, and she was very critical of Santos and the rest of the  congressional crazies, but you wonder the same thing about her that you question with Adam Kinzinger-why stay with this party of grifters and fools? There are democrats that are moderate and pull red votes like Manchin, give it a shot.

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by cheetahchirps

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

I couldn’t roll my eyes enough at Barr, religion is being persecuted yet the Supreme Court is full of Catholics and white evangelicals are one of the most powerful voting blocs in the country.

I'm with you there. Barr is correct in that contemporary society is much more secular than even in the 80s. Good. Let's get more people in office from different backgrounds. 

 

[Kenz]

When the topic of problems with the schools came up, I thought that they were going to talk about banning books in schools or DeSantis banning AP African American Studies in Florida. I didn't  expect that all out right wing crap about teachers and parents forcing gender questions on kindergarten kids. Give me a break! I'm surprised they didn't bring up that Republican, Fox News fable about kids identifying as cats and having kitty litter in classrooms. What an insult to teachers in this country to infer that this is such a huge problem. I live in a very liberal state and I haven't heard of any teacher doing this, and I doubt that many parents would push this gender questioning topic to their children  too. If Maher continues like this and also continues to mock Covid procedures during a pandemic, I will quit this show for good.

3 hours ago, Pike Ludwell said:

When he's standing, doing his monologue, what's the deal with him always putting his right hand just an inch or so above his crotch with weirdly bent fingers. I started noticing it last year. Is this a thing he's always done and I just haven't noticed. It's just very weird and annoying as hell.

I think he is trying to be hip like a rapper and failing miserably. He looks like an old coot making weird gestures.

[Starchild]

3 hours ago, Pike Ludwell said:

When he's standing, doing his monologue, what's the deal with him always putting his right hand just an inch or so above his crotch with weirdly bent fingers. I started noticing it last year. Is this a thing he's always done and I just haven't noticed. It's just very weird and annoying as hell.

He's been doing it for quite a while. I've also seen it when he's sitting in the chair doing the first interview, not just standing for the opening monologue.

You won't be able to unsee it now.

[izabella]

I don't watch this show anymore, but y'all made me curious about the hand thing, so I looked up his monologue.  What is that?  It's so unnatural.  Yet, quite precise and exact each time. 

31 minutes ago, Starchild said:

He's been doing it for quite a while. I've also seen it when he's sitting in the chair doing the first interview, not just standing for the opening monologue.

You won't be able to unsee it now.

I wonder if he also does it behind the table, but it's just not visible. 

Could he have some kind of signaling device that he's touching with his two fingers?  Like, push the top button to speed up the telepromter or cue cards, and the bottom to slow it down.  I don't know.  It's just so weird, and so consistently the same spot, same gesture, same placement. 

[ICantDoThatDave]

It's on point that Bill rails about "people only listening to their own bubbles" when on this very thread it's illustrated  - I thought hearing Bill Barr's perspective was enlightening.  Like Bill (M) said, not that I agree with him (re: the Mueller Report), but just to hear his take on it.  Or, similarly, later, the talk about schools.

It's illuminating to hear "the other side" articulated - I can kinda understand where they're coming from (again, not that I agree).  It makes it easier to engage with people, in my own life, when you hear their rationale.   I'm glad he does this.

[aghst]

Bill took some shots at the younger generations, saying they don't know anything, how they drive the woke or cancel culture.

Also said they don't watch his show.

Hmm, wonder why.  

He must have had some PTSD when they groaned at some of his jokes.

[ahpny]

I thought this was a decent show. I was surprised Bill Maher had Bill Barr on, but I guess Bill Maher's test is election denial, and any Republican that can agree publicly that the 2020 election was not "stolen," can be someone worth hearing. Indeed, though like Maher, I disagree with Barr that religion is now under "siege," I can see how it's not necessarily crazy for some to think that. What many would now call social progress, others would call denigration of religion and long-held cultural norms. Change has been swift, and from Barr's prospective, the "rules" have shifted too fast and improperly taken power and authority away from those who have had it for a long time.

I thought two of Maher's points were especially cogent. First, if abortion is so heinous and no different than murder, how can those who believe this be happy to "leave the issue to the states" and have at least some states make it legal? Isn't this supposed to be a foundational moral issue, not a dry issue of civil procedure and apportioning authority between the federal government and the states? Second, while the two Republicans in this episode might be "as good as it gets Republicans," how can they still dither about possibly supporting Trump, again. Biden is not the devil or the far-left captive they still claim he is. How can it be reasonable to hesitate or dither about Trump support now, based on Biden. Until they can see that, "as good as it gets" still isn't good enough.

[Welshman in Ca]

16 minutes ago, ahpny said:

 

 Second, while the two Republicans in this episode might be "as good as it gets Republicans," how can they still dither about possibly supporting Trump, again. Biden is not the devil or the far-left captive they still claim he is. How can it be reasonable to hesitate or dither about Trump support now, based on Biden. Until they can see that, "as good as it gets" still isn't good enough.

But like most they're not dithering on supporting Trump, they will 100% support ANYONE as long as that anyone is the republican nominee.  It doesn't matter who the democratic nominee is either, Biden or someone else, they will vote republican, end of debate, the rest is just waffle. There are democrats who have exactly the same view of any democratic nominee,  no matter who it is.

 It's the 5% (or whatever the % is) with no allegiance to either party that will decide the election in 2024 just as with every election.

 

[DoctorAtomic]

I'd say first to the abortion, the % of people who find it immoral or heinous are a small, though vocal, minority. I don't think either Barr or Mace are in there. Barr seemed to be more "the states should decide", which I find ridiculous as does Bill, since, as he said, you just go to the other state. Mace is talking about negotiating 15 or 24 weeks, and seemed to have a fairly moderate position. 

As to whether they'd still vote for Trump, after thinking about it more, I think they're just toeing the party line. Mace looked like she was going to throw up when Bill asked if she'd be VP, and she said she was already busy in the day Trump was in SC. She also said Trump tried to have her primaried. I don't think she'd vote democratic, but I'm sure she's rooting real hard for DeSantis. 

I think Barr is arrogant enough that he thinks Trump would be 'managed' better in a second term. 

I don't think either were really being honest about Biden and didn't really answer Bill. 

[aghst]

Republicans aren't going to settle for letting the states decide.  Lindsay Graham already introduced a bill to ban it nationwide after 6 weeks, maybe without any exceptions for rape, incest or life of the mother.

That's what the activists are pushing.

They're also looking at ways to disrupt constitutional provisions for freedom of travel between states (people going to blue states to get abortion or other health services banned in red states) and also they're going after some obscure 19th century law to stop abortifacients being distributed via the mail.

If anyone thinks Republicans are going to just leave it at blue states with abortion rights and red states without, they're not paying attention.

[Pike Ludwell]

.

Edited January 22, 2023 by Pike Ludwell

[Hanahope]

Re:adolescents and schools.  Puberty blockers have been used by some kids, and all it does is delay puberty, they are totally reversible.  Obviously the one 16 year old was ill-served by parents, therapists and doctors.  But one extreme anecdote should not prevent reversible treatment for others. 
 

and I’ve never heard of teachers pushing pronouns in elementary schools.  Maybe in middle school they ask if anyone wants to use another pronoun, but it’s definitely not pushed.

Edited January 22, 2023 by Hanahope

[DoctorAtomic]

That seems more likely to me. Not that my colleagues talk too much about their kids, but if it was such a huge issue, I think it would have come up. 

I'd really like if they had an actual teacher on the show. I doubt just about all of them are worried about pronouns after trying to get 30 something 9 year olds to sit down and shut up for five minutes.

I'm trying to be fair, and I think Mace basically saying 'parents need to parent again' is a real issue, but that's not the case here. 

 

[sugarbaker design]

2 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I'd really like if they had an actual teacher on the show. 

 

An actual trans person would've helped in the three-person pile-on on the alleged use of pronouns in elementary schools.

[Salacious Kitty]

1 hour ago, sugarbaker design said:

An actual trans person would've helped in the three-person pile-on on the alleged use of pronouns in elementary schools.

Or someone like me who actually teaches in one. 

[Starchild]

On 1/21/2023 at 11:43 PM, izabella said:

Could he have some kind of signaling device that he's touching with his two fingers?  Like, push the top button to speed up the telepromter or cue cards, and the bottom to slow it down.  I don't know.  It's just so weird, and so consistently the same spot, same gesture, same placement. 

My guess is it's just a subconscious affectation. I've tried to watch his standup shows but can't sit through his smugness for that long. So I can't tell you whether he does it there too. Maybe it's only something he does while wearing a suit, which I can understand he may be less comfortable in.

 

21 hours ago, ahpny said:

while the two Republicans in this episode might be "as good as it gets Republicans," how can they still dither about possibly supporting Trump, again. Biden is not the devil or the far-left captive they still claim he is. How can it be reasonable to hesitate or dither about Trump support now, based on Biden. Until they can see that, "as good as it gets" still isn't good enough.

Funny, I thought Republicans like Cheney and Kinzinger (and to a lesser extent, Romney) were as good as it gets. What's Mace's voting record?

 

17 hours ago, Hanahope said:

Re:adolescents and schools.  Puberty blockers have been used by some kids, and all it does is delay puberty, they are totally reversible.  Obviously the one 16 year old was ill-served by parents, therapists and doctors.  But one extreme anecdote should not prevent reversible treatment for others. 
 

and I’ve never heard of teachers pushing pronouns in elementary schools.  Maybe in middle school they ask if anyone wants to use another pronoun, but it’s definitely not pushed.

The people Bill has on his show that stand with him on "wokeness is going too far" make me uncomfortable. They never seem to suggest compromise positions, which implies that they want it all to go back to "the way it was." But "the way it was" hurt a lot of people and let a lot of other people get away with heinous things. It sounds a lot like "Make America Great Again" to be honest.

[DoctorAtomic]

That's kind of the vibe I got when they really started rambling. I also tend to agree with Bill most of the time. Sure, wokeness can go too far, and like I said before, adults do need to be adults, and too bad if kids throw a fit about it. Just saying 'knock it off' isn't really a strategy though. Sullivan concerns me the most because he comes off really anti-trans on multiple occasions when this topic comes up. So, what do you do when a kid is really struggling with gender identity? "They'll figure it out?" That's not really fair either. 

[ahpny]

3 hours ago, Starchild said:

Funny, I thought Republicans like Cheney and Kinzinger (and to a lesser extent, Romney) were as good as it gets.

Indeed, both Cheney and Kinzinger have been quite vocal about opposing Trump, with Cheney promising to leave the Republican party if Trump is again nominated. I didn't hear that from either of the two ostensibly as "good as it gets" republicans on this episode.

[Pike Ludwell]

6 hours ago, ahpny said:

Indeed, both Cheney and Kinzinger have been quite vocal about opposing Trump, with Cheney promising to leave the Republican party if Trump is again nominated. I didn't hear that from either of the two ostensibly as "good as it gets" republicans on this episode.

Mace is actually a pretty irrational repub, even though she likes to pretend she's rational. She was on Meet the Press Sunday spouting one idiotic false equivalency after another. Bill could have had a line of questioning to expose this, but he kept it all soft and easy for her.

[Tara]

Wait a minute. Bill is half-Jewish, half-Catholic? I have heard him ridicule the Catholic religion over and over. I have never heard him ridicule the Jewish religion. Does he believe in it? Just wondering.

[sistermagpie]

26 minutes ago, Tara said:

Wait a minute. Bill is half-Jewish, half-Catholic? I have heard him ridicule the Catholic religion over and over. I have never heard him ridicule the Jewish religion. Does he believe in it? Just wondering.

Afaik, he was raised Catholic and considers himself an agnostic, so he's got more personal experience with Catholicism. According to Google he's called tenets of the Jewish religion insane and funny and says all organized religion is stupid and dangerous. 

But being Jewish isn't necessarily following any type of Jewish religion. 

[Tara]

I googled Bill and found a very interesting article in the Jewish Journal called “Bill Maher is Sticking to His Beliefs—Whether You Like It or Not.”