George & Tammy - General Discussion

[BetterButter]

[DanaK]

Press release http://thefutoncritic.com/news/2022/11/03/showtime-picks-up-george-and-tammy-starring-oscar-winner-jessica-chastain-and-oscar-nominee-michael-shannon-202020/20221103showtime01/

[chediavolo]

I started watching this because I like the actors, I don’t know much about The real life George and Tammy. And I am not country music fan so I guess I was just watching this for the nostalgia. Can’t really get into it as of yet. I will say that the scene in episode one at the dinner table with the whole family and George was a little bit upsetting if this really happened in front of those kids. So far no one is very likable.

[Stuffy]

1 hour ago, chediavolo said:

I started watching this because I like the actors, I don’t know much about The real life George and Tammy. And I am not country music fan so I guess I was just watching this for the nostalgia. Can’t really get into it as of yet. I will say that the scene in episode one at the dinner table with the whole family and George was a little bit upsetting if this really happened in front of those kids. So far no one is very likable.

It really happened. George’s version of the story from his book is that both him and the husband had been drinking. Tammy and her husband started arguing when the husband started insulting her. George already had feelings for her, so didn’t like that and flipped the table. Tammy’s version also had him throwing the chair through the window. 
 

They don’t have a happy story at all. He was a violent drunk, and she ends up addicted to pain pills due to a bad hysterectomy. 
 

If I remember correctly their daughter gave Jessica permission to tell the full story warts and all. 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Stuffy

[chediavolo]

1 hour ago, Stuffy said:

It really happened. George’s version of the story from his book is that both him and the husband had been drinking. Tammy and her husband started arguing when the husband started insulting her. George already had feelings for her, so didn’t like that and flipped the table. Tammy’s version also had him throwing the chair through the window. 
 

They don’t have a happy story at all. He was a violent drunk, and she ends up addicted to pain pills due to a bad hysterectomy. 
 

If I remember correctly their daughter gave Jessica permission to tell the full story warts and all. 

After the first eoisode they had clips  with the actors and the people involved in the production and they pretty much said this is a love story a wonderful love story blah blah blah. Sure doesn’t seem like it!

[babyhouseman]

My grandfather was a huge fan. I remember him having a George and Tammy eight track in his truck. They had great songs. But I remember George's last wife Nancy the most. He seemed to settle down with her. 

[pasdetrois]

I liked the first episode. I love Shannon but I'm having a hard time accepting him as George, physically.

Long-time country music fans will remember that when George was forbidden to drive - due to uncontrollable drinking - he took to driving a lawn mower instead of a car or truck.

Edited December 11, 2022 by pasdetrois

[QQQQ]

I'm not into country music at all and know next to nothing about George & Tammy, but when she was washing his hair I totally flashed back to around 1975 listening to older female relatives talk about Tammy being a former beautician. Funny how something like that stayed with me for almost 50 years 😅

[cameron]

While I really like Michael Shannon; thought that the real George Jones had blonde hair not dark hair.

[TVMovieBuff]

I love Jessica & Michael so much, and true life stories, this series is right up my alley. I am going to love it. Love It. 

[chediavolo]

Why did they give Tammy electro shock therapy? While she was pregnant no less? 

[Ss55]

I'm loving this show, and it makes me want to know more on the background of George and Tammy so I've been watching old videos of them singing.  They both had distinct, lovely voices.

[QQQQ]

9 hours ago, chediavolo said:

Why did they give Tammy electro shock therapy? While she was pregnant no less? 

When administered at appropriate levels by trained professionals, ECT is usually safer for pregnant women than medications used to treat depression. I had a few friends receive ECT in the 90s. 

At least Tammy wasn't subjected to a lobotomy. See podcast Storycorps 455: My Lobotomy.

[babyhouseman]

On 12/7/2022 at 12:28 PM, pasdetrois said:

I liked the first episode. I love Shannon but I'm having a hard time accepting him as George, physically.

Long-time country music fans will remember that when George was forbidden to drive - due to uncontrollable drinking - he took to driving a lawn mower instead of a car or truck.

He was called No Show Jones because he wouldn't show up at shows in his bad days. He was also called The Possum because he said someone said he looked like one when he was young. 

This show is bringing up so many memories. I had forgotten about I Don't Wanna Play House. I grew up on Hee Haw and The Nashville Network and saw a lot of G and T.

[chediavolo]

What a messed up couple of people! I’m too young to remember much of them & not a country music fan but I had heard about these two being addicts & their relationship problems.  

[Snazzy Daisy]

Tammy should sue the doctor who performed that botched hysterectomy without her consent! 😣

[chediavolo]

19 hours ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Tammy should sue the doctor who performed that botched hysterectomy without her consent! 😣

The “good old days” where women received shock treatment & hysterectomies without their consent. Among many other gruesome & misogynistic acts. 

[chediavolo]

Tammy’s songs were really hard to sing along too ..most of them seem like she is reading a letter to music. Can’t explain it, they are not what you would call catchy or easy to remember. Stand by your man (🤢such time worthy lyrics) excepted . 
watching this series in wonder. What a toxic relationship.  

 

[lurkerbee]

On 12/10/2022 at 11:12 AM, cameron said:

While I really like Michael Shannon; thought that the real George Jones had blonde hair not dark hair.

In his later years it was platinum/silver, but in his younger days it was brown. 

[Armchair Critic]

 I think Jim Carrey could pull off looking like George, something similar about their faces to me.

[Sweet-tea]

I grew up listening to Tammy Wynette because my parents loved her. I'm enjoying this series but I have one big issue: Jessica Chastain's voice isn't nearly as good as Tammy's. I almost wish she had lip synced. She just doesn't have the Tammy magic. So it strains credibility for me when people are supposedly in awe of her talent and she's really only average. 

If you don't believe me, look up Tammy on YouTube. Listen to "Divorce" and "Stand By Your Man" and you'll hear the difference just in those songs. 

[cameron]

On 12/28/2022 at 7:06 PM, Sweet-tea said:

I grew up listening to Tammy Wynette because my parents loved her. I'm enjoying this series but I have one big issue: Jessica Chastain's voice isn't nearly as good as Tammy's. I almost wish she had lip synced. She just doesn't have the Tammy magic. So it strains credibility for me when people are supposedly in awe of her talent and she's really only average. 

If you don't believe me, look up Tammy on YouTube. Listen to "Divorce" and "Stand By Your Man" and you'll hear the difference just in those songs. 

Actually thought for not being a professional singer, Jessica did an admirable job singing.   Tammy probably wouldn't have been as good an actress as Jessica.

[TVMovieBuff]

On 1/5/2023 at 4:39 AM, cameron said:

Actually thought for not being a professional singer, Jessica did an admirable job singing.   Tammy probably wouldn't have been as good an actress as Jessica.

Jessica can do no wrong, as an actress, in my opinion. For a series like this it would be better if the producers had had them lip-sync. Tammy was an exceptional singer. 

[cameron]

Probably going to be in the minority but just watch Tammy singing Standby your Man on you tube and thought that she comes across as sounding shrill or twangy.  Not a fan of her singing.

[Snazzy Daisy]

The staged kidnapping was silly and people around her totally believed that?

Why George Richey inherited vast majority of Tammy’s estate and not her 4 daughters? He was also given her intellectual and business properties. Lucky man! Then his new wife inherited everything. 😣

[TVMovieBuff]

What is surprising is that Tammy had no will. Her death wasn't unforeseen. That is what the show tells us anyway.

Most states favor the spouse when someone dies intestate, without a will. It takes legal proceedings for the kids to get a share. 

 

[Sweet-tea]

On 1/6/2023 at 8:43 AM, TVMovieBuff said:

Jessica can do no wrong, as an actress, in my opinion. For a series like this it would be better if the producers had had them lip-sync. Tammy was an exceptional singer. 

Agree. I thought Michael’s singing was better as George than Jessica’s as Tammy, although Jessica sounded better in the duets than she did in the solos IMO. I understand Tammy wasn’t everyone’s cup of tea but she had a unique voice and much such an impact on country music. 

What kind of drug was Tammy being injected with? 

Gosh, that scene with Tammy and her friend, Sheila, was awkward. Sheila was basically apologizing for Tammy sleeping with her husband. Yikes. 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Sweet-tea

[Hedgehog2022]

On 12/6/2022 at 3:50 PM, Stuffy said:

It really happened. George’s version of the story from his book is that both him and the husband had been drinking. Tammy and her husband started arguing when the husband started insulting her. George already had feelings for her, so didn’t like that and flipped the table. Tammy’s version also had him throwing the chair through the window. 
 

They don’t have a happy story at all. He was a violent drunk, and she ends up addicted to pain pills due to a bad hysterectomy. 
 

If I remember correctly their daughter gave Jessica permission to tell the full story warts and all. 

Their daughter was Georgette. She wrote a book about their family...this show was based on her book.

[Hedgehog2022]

On 1/7/2023 at 5:47 AM, SnazzyDaisy said:

The staged kidnapping was silly and people around her totally believed that?

Why George Richey inherited vast majority of Tammy’s estate and not her 4 daughters? He was also given her intellectual and business properties. Lucky man! Then his new wife inherited everything. 😣

Richey manipulated Tammy when she was in a drug induced state to sign off on all of these things. She was in a drug induced state most of the time towards the end and he was responsible for keeping her in this state by procuring her drugs and injecting them. She  was on an IV drip for nutrition that he spiked with her drugs. A very sordid and sad relationship. Her daughters got nothing because of his manipulation and control. Tammy was basically pretty out of it in the last months of her life. 

[pasdetrois]

On 12/28/2022 at 7:06 PM, Sweet-tea said:

grew up listening to Tammy Wynette because my parents loved her.

I also grew up listening to her (not my choice - I loved the Beatles and Motown). As a baby feminist I hated the lyrics to Stand By Your Man, but I adored the song because of the power and emotion of Tammy's fantastic voice. Plus, even feminists get their hearts broken by a no-good man.

Despite my earlier doubts, Shannon really pulled this off.

Chastain is a fantastic actress, but I've grown tired of seeing her in everything. And I'll never forgive her for that wretched, cartoonish performance as Celia in The Help.

Edited January 16, 2023 by pasdetrois

[One Imaginary Girl]

To be honest, I think I preferred the early-'80s TV movie Stand By Your Man, which was probably made to cash in on the success of Coal Miner's Daughter.  It's not exactly the same because it's about Tammy's life and career to that point, including her marriage to George but also about her previous marriages and how she got started, but of course it doesn't show the terrible decline.  Annette O'Toole did her own singing, too, and she did a great job with it.

Edited January 10, 2023 by One Imaginary Girl

[Sweet-tea]

I'm halfway through the last episode and the scene of George singing "He Stopped Loving Her Today" to Tammy brought me to tears. Michael Shannon is killing it! I hope he gets an Emmy nomination for this. 

I looked it up on YT to see George singing it live. What a beautiful, sad song. Michael did George proud. 

My library has both the books on Tammy (from her two daughters). I've reserved them. 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Sweet-tea

[cameron]

What two messed up people (George and Tammy).

[Inquisitionist]

Was surprised to see that Chastain was nominated for a Golden Globe but Shannon was not.  She was good but I thought he was outstanding.

Not sure this story required 6 hours to tell.  

[Sweet-tea]

3 hours ago, Inquisitionist said:

Was surprised to see that Chastain was nominated for a Golden Globe but Shannon was not.  She was good but I thought he was outstanding.

Not sure this story required 6 hours to tell.  

Wow. That is surprising. I thought he was better too. 

I just finished it. Very sad. I wonder what really killed her and if it was an overdose. They did a good job of making her look frail near the end. In one scene she was holding onto a stool to balance herself. 

Her last husband seemed like a horrible person to me, at least the way he was portrayed. 

In terms of her singing, I thought Jessica was best in the "Help Me Make it Through the Night" song, which is interesting because it wasn't originally Tammy's song. It was a cover. I believe Sammi Smith was the original artist. The song was written by Kris Kristofferson. Always loved the song and Jessica's performance was poignant. 

Surprised Tammy didn't have a will. I wonder if Richey gave anything to the kids. 

5 minutes ago, Sweet-tea said:

mistake 

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Sweet-tea

[libgirl2]

23 hours ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

To be honest, I think I preferred the early-'80s TV movie Stand By Your Man, which was probably made to cash in on the success of Coal Miner's Daughter.  It's not exactly the same because it's about Tammy's life and career to that point, including her marriage to George but also about her previous marriages and how she got started, but of course it doesn't show the terrible decline.  Annette O'Toole did her own singing, too, and she did a great job with it.

I remember that movie. I always liked Annette O'Toole. 

[kwnyc]

What a sad ending. The scene where the two of them, much older and sadder, talking again before their last performance was achingly good.

It seems like Richey managed to screw Wynette's 4 daughters out of their mother's estate, though they did win a lawsuit to have her grave marked "Tammy Wynette."

The real surprise to me was that George made it into his '80s.

[lurkerbee]

48 minutes ago, kwnyc said:

 

The real surprise to me was that George made it into his '80s.

In his autobiography, George gave credit to his wife Nancy for his sobriety, which probably helped him live that long.

[Sweet-tea]

I just started reading one of the books about Tammy. It’s by her daughter, Jackie. So far, it is sad. The daughters thought their mother’s death was suspicious. No autopsy was done and a doctor traveled from six hours away to declare her dead. It was ruled a blood clot but with no evidence to support it. Jackie saw her mother the day before, and Tammy was zonked out slumped on the couch. Richey also appeared out of it. He frequently made excuses for Tammy’s condition. 

I still have a lot to read, but it sounds like Richey wasn’t a good guy and he enabled Tammy’s addition and took advantage of her. 

She speaks highly of George Jones.

[Cara]

 

[Sweet-tea]

On 1/22/2023 at 8:08 AM, Cara said:

 

Cara, thank you for posting this. At the end of the book I read it said Jackie sued Richey for wrongful death of her mother. I found this story about the result. They settled with the physician, and Richey got off unscathed. Sad that he tried to change Tammy’s name to Tammy Richey on her gravestone. How petty!

I agree with Dr. Drew. In my opinion, she was killed with drugs just like Michael Jackson. It just took longer with her as it as Richey injected her for years. 

[Bastet]

I'm a huge fan of George Jones and Tammy Wynette's music, alone and together, and know the basics of their messy relationship, but didn't get around to watching this until now.  I wish they'd used George and Tammy's vocals.  I know there are problems with having the actors lip sync, but especially with them singing full songs, all it made me want to do is pull out my CDs and listen to the real thing. 

The acting was great, though.  I've only seen each of them in a couple of other things, so this was by far my most exposure to them and they were both terrific in these roles.

There were many times along the way I thought the show was dragging, but so I do not think it needed to be as long as it is, but I enjoyed it.  I'm glad Richey was portrayed as the giant asshole he was.  It makes me so angry that he got what she'd intended to provide her daughters' security; she worked hard her whole life, and it goes to that asshole and then his wife.  Yes, it was hideously foolish not to get her will done by an estate lawyer long before she started writing it up herself, but he kept her so doped up and under his thumb it's not as shocking as it seems. 

I laughed at Georgette wondering "The fuck is this song" when Tammy was shooting the video for "Justified and Ancient".  I flippin' love that song, it is so delightfully weird. 

My cat is really glad the series is over, because I sang along with every song and I cannot carry a tune with a forklift.  Today I'll listen to the real versions.