Fandom and Viewer Issues: "Fan" Is Short for "Fanatic"

[Serena]

LOL at her "writing" for Huffington post. Anyone can "write" for them, they accept user-submitted content. Anyone here on this forum could have an article "published" there. It irritates me because it's basically the equivalent of having a blog, but because it's called "the Huffington Post" some people believe it's legit journalism and it can hurt people/actors. They had a REALLY ridiculous article the other week about John Green that basically bashed him for having defended himself against unfounded accusations of being a predator against young girls. THAT's the level of "journalism" those HP articles are at.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Serena

[Souris]

Oh, yeah, anything that's a blog post at one of those user-submitted sites is basically worthless opinion. Unfortunately, most people don't understand the difference between actual journalism, professional writing and a random post from a random person. It's all the same thing to them. Believe me, that fact upsets me to no end, given that I went to journalism school.

[Dani-Ellie]

Dude, if you're worried that people are going to try to get you barred from the press room because you've posted nasty shit about one of the actors in the press room to the point that you tell no one you're going, the problem is not with the other people or the press room.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Dani-Ellie

[sharky]

I can kind of understand how they somehow got through. Again, it's probably similar to the probably intern who posted the thing on FB earlier this summer about Emma sacrificing herself for Regina. It was a quick look at the site, nothing too negative on the front page so you get a pass.

 

I'm pretty sure this was the same "reporter" who asked the actions speak louder than words question, and there's a whole lot of blow back on tumblr about that right now. Essentially, it sounds like it's something that SQ fans have grabbed on to, but either the line was never said or they'll pulled it out of context for the finale. (Did she say it in the Emma/Regina episode early in season 4 maybe?) Emma said "I love you" to Hook but sacrificed herself for Regina? Because actions speak louder than words? Anyways, there's are some people on tumblr who seem to think that question went too far. Then of course there is a fan who posted this: "‘Actions speak louder than words’ is not a random line just because it doesn’t suit your ship (I guess you are a cser?) And yes, I don’t believe she does [remember]. How can she if she doesn’t have all the facts? If she doesn’t remember what went on on the show?" Which again, pisses me off. JMo knows what went on on the show. She has more facts than you. And this person then responded to comments with, "I do like Jen. Why are you accusing me of saying mean things about her?" Uh..... self awareness, dear. Find some.

 

Here's the video of the actual question and JMo's answer. And can I just say how much again I love Colin? I don't know if he knew what was going on or not with that question, but he did a good job of deflecting it for Jennifer.

[OnceUponAJen]

I'm horrified, embarassed and dismayed that this goes on. I'm sorry that the actors feel threatened because of it. I've been on the internet since Usenet newsgroups were a thing, and I've never seen anything like it. I think the "House" fandom could be combative amongst the ships, but I don't remember anyone from the show being affected by it...although my memory is admittedly short these days! With that long online history, I've also never been bullied, threatened or stalked over it so I have no idea how awful that must be.

I'm glad JMo called the "reporter" out on it, and I love how emphatic she was in her statements. I could also see that she's frustrated by it, and I know she gets a majority of the grief from factions of the fandom. It is easy to get in as a journalist (of sorts) because I've done it (a long time ago), but in a legitimate way. I pitched an idea for an article and got an interview which was published in hard copy, and I was paid for my work. I can imagine how easy it is to get in as a blogger!

Edited July 13, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[mjgchick]

This is so awkward.

[Writing Wrongs]

I was kind of surprised that Yvette Nicole Brown said to Jen that in her mind Emma did it for Regina. I don't know if she was just throwing a bone to the SQ fans or if she really thought that. It's stupid that the actor has to keep justifying things when all they are doing is acting what was written in the script. People should berate the writers.

[snarkastic]

I thought YNB was just asking so that Jmo could shut it down to a bigger audience, not that she thought it at all or was even throwing a bone to SQ. Now, I thought the FUNKO doll set up being about Regina was her throwing the Evil Regals a bone, but I can't ever see YNB doing anything for SQ.

[Serena]

But seriously, when did Emma say "Actions speak louder than words"? It's the second time this weekend someone has claimed Emma said something I have no recollection of, and I feel like I'm going crazy.

But I 100% that the writers are completely to blame for this mess. I honestly don't blame SQers for their interpretation, it's actually one of their least out there theories (what was that one where toasters were symbols of lesbianism?). It was shitty writing and Jen is taking the heat. Why aren't people asking A&E this stuff?

Edited July 13, 2015 by Serena

[pezgirl7]

But seriously, when did Emma say "Actions speak louder than words"? It's the second time this weekend someone has claimed Emma said something I have no recollection of, and I feel like I'm going crazy.

Emma said it in Operation Mongoose when she was trying to convince Regina to break up Robin's wedding.

Regina: I don't even know what to say to him.

Emma: I think in this case actions speak louder than words.

Henry: Once you and Robin share true love's kiss, everything should be great again.

Regina: Okay.

SQers have confidently left out the " I think in this case" part.

[Shanna Marie]

SQers have confidently left out the " I think in this case" part.

And the rest of the context, which was basically "If you don't know what to say, act." Which is what Emma did when she tackled Hook. Later, though, she knew exactly what she was saying.

 

And why am I even discussing this? It's too ridiculous to even take seriously.

[Camera One]

LOL, that dialogue is atrocious, and really showed what they have reduced Henry to.  

 

Regina being in immediate danger was what propelled Emma to make the sacrifice, so I can see why people would come to the conclusion that she did it for Regina. Her last words were to Hook, so he was equally significant.  Henry wasn't explicitly mentioned and the comment to Snowing was sandwiched in the middle.  Really, the way most things are written, you remember the beginning and the end.  Thus in crazy shipper terms, SQ vs. CS, and it's pretty much due to the way that scene was written by A&E's "something for all" style of writing.  

[pezgirl7]

Now there are some SQ fans who think Colin was being too inappropriate at CC and talking about Emma's wardrobe too much. *headdesk* It amazes me how some people can find something to be upset about in a hot, steaming pile of nothing.

[Souris]

Meanwhile, they talk about Lana's boobs all the time. But that's OK. SMH.

[maryle]

Maybe I'm totally wrong but I saw some really awful thing toward Colin this week end and when I add the Lana and Sean not doing too much together publicly because of the hate I' wondering if some SQBA apple just doesn't like the genuine friendship between their favorite and their male co star and there some twist jealousy that Lana and Jen doesn't seems as close.

I do not know but the hate against Colin is strong this week end and I really don't think he deserves it.

It obvious that Jen and hadvnot much to talk about except to tease the maybe Emma will try to seduce Hook back to the dark side. And both know that fans like their banter so...

[RadioGirl27]

Ugh, this people. A&E are, as almost always, the ones to blame here. They wrote the scene the way they did looking for this, not the attacks to Jen, but the different ways to read the scene and the give hope to everyone. And the sad thing is that, as always, this rudeness would be rewarded with more ambiguous scenes that the SQ shipper would see as romantic even if they are not.

Edited July 13, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[RedKeep]

 

Maybe I'm totally wrong but I saw some really awful thing toward Colin this week end and when I add the Lana and Sean not doing too much together publicly because of the hate I' wondering if some SQBA apple just doesn't like the genuine friendship between their favorite and their male co star and there some twist jealousy that Lana and Jen doesn't seems as close.

I don't know if it's rooted in jealousy or something else, but there does seem to be a sense of threat they get from off camera friendships. I've seen various attempts to deny that these actresses may have genuine friendships with their co stars. It's all just promotion for their stories on the show, the men are only using the actresses and their popularity, etc, etc. It's very weird and uncomfortable because what it essentially comes down to is fans not drawing a clear line between fiction and reality.

 

The Lana and Sean thing that's been sort of confirmed by that meet and greet story has been very obvious for a while since you do see them attending cons together or doing stuff together outside of the show, you have pap pics and photos of them taking selfies or pictures of each other, but they rather post half a dozen of their selfies with other co stars on their Twitters than the ones they took with each other. I get it to some degree. We often think they don't see much of the fandom hate because of the sheer number of tweets these actors receive every single day, but apparently that's not the case or maybe and understandably a few very nasty tweets they do see have a bigger effect on them.

 

I get not wanting to experience that over and over again and I also get wanting to sort of protect your co stars from it. Like with what Parrilla apparently said about how Maguire ends up on the receiving end of the abuse a lot if they do share something and in the case of CS vs. SQ it's likely mostly Morrison since Colin rarely tweets or responds to hate and drama at all. But at the same time the thought of a group of bullies getting their way and getting the actors to restrict themselves like that doesn't sit well with me. It's just plain absurd to be honest that a show/cast/crew would allow itself to be bullied by one single fraction of their fanbase like that. Maybe I don't watch enough tv shows with 'passionate' shipper followings, but I don't think I have ever experienced anything like what's happening with OUAT before.

[OnceUponAJen]

I don't think anyone is to blame here. It's people behaving in unacceptable ways. It doesn't matter how they interpret something onscreen. There are things you just don't do, like threatening and harassing people if you aren't happy with what you're seeing.

[Serena]

Now there are some SQ fans who think Colin was being too inappropriate at CC and talking about Emma's wardrobe too much. *headdesk* It amazes me how some people can find something to be upset about in a hot, steaming pile of nothing.

This is JMO we're talking about. I think I've heard her say approximately 55 times "Colin liked the stolen dress in the season 3 finale A LOT." I assume if she was unconfortable about Colin making jokes about liking Emma's wardrobe, SHE wouldn't make jokes about Colin liking Emma's wardrobe.

As with everything, context is key. A joke your close friend may find hilarious could be found very inappropriate by another person, a stranger. It's very clear that Jen and Colin are very close friends and they've probably told those jokes many times before. 

Edited July 13, 2015 by Serena

[sharky]

Yea, this seems hypocritical to me. A SQ fan will make a comment about the Evil Queen's boobs looking great in a dress but Colin is apparently sexist and gross for responding to a question about Emma's wardrobe. You can't have it both ways.

[mjgchick]

This just sounds very high school to me. I can't believe a lot of these people are adults acting this way. How do you let a fictional show warp your mind like that. These people are all friends. Stop projecting your hate on them.

Seriously, you can't talk about Colin's playful joke about a costume Jen wore in which she seems comfortable with then goes around and talk about Lana's boobs. Idiots.

Edited July 13, 2015 by mjgchick

[YaddaYadda]

You know what doesn't help?  That their shenanigans gets "publicity" and that everyone seems to react to what they do when really everyone, fans, writers, actors should just ignore them.  When a 5 year old throws a tantrum, says a bad word or does whatever a 5 year old does, you don't reward their behavior.  

 

I always find it a bit sad that the nasty people are the ones who get the attention.  The nice tweets or comments very rarely get a reply or attention.  When someone is mean spirited, they will be mean spirited whether you reply to them or not.  

 

Everyone just needs to stop feeding the beast.  

[Curio]

Maybe I don't watch enough tv shows with 'passionate' shipper followings, but I don't think I have ever experienced anything like what's happening with OUAT before.

 

The only other fandom I've seen get this cray cray, to the point where it crosses the line into the actors' personal lives, is Supernatural. But I stopped watching that show years ago so I don't know how bad the shippers are anymore.

 

The thing I find "unique" (for lack of a better word) about certain Once fans is that they have to twist the show's characters and narrative so much just to make their never-going-to-happen pairing work in their fictional head canons. It's to the point where they're watching a completely different show in their minds. It's one thing for Rumple/Belle fans to hold onto hope and write fan fiction about that couple because it's actually been shown on screen that yes—those two characters like each other, have spent quality time together, and you don't have to twist their characterizations to force them to be together in your personal fan fiction.

 

But then there's Regina/Emma, where the fans have to go to great lengths to contort those characters into something completely different than what's shown on screen; you might as well not even call those characters Regina and Emma anymore. Just out of sheer curiosity (and because I like to be as fair as possible to the other party if I'm going to be very critical of them), I read a short fan fiction excerpt of a Swan Queen story to see their point of view. It wasn't pretty. Regina was practically unrecognizable as a character who was much nicer than she's ever been shown on screen (and of course she was the most amazing and beautiful person Emma has ever seen), Emma was suddenly this boring character whose only character trait was to cry about her problems to Regina, and Hook was completely out of character as someone Emma despised and he apparently liked to yell at her constantly.

 

Are we even watching the same show? I don't understand pairing a couple where you have to literally force your brain to do cartwheels and backflips just to make the pairing work in fiction. I get that people interpret things differently, and I get how certain fans like to create fantasies about the show if things they hope to see aren't happening on screen (I know I've fantasized about seeing some neglected characters backstories), but keep your fantasies to your blogs and don't be nasty to the actors to the point where they have to read books about online bullying.

[Mari]

I don't know--there've been times where with a squint and a head tilt I can sort of see it. Maybe a slow burn fic set in season 1, where Regina decides to fake a friendship with Emma, and they bond over Henry and Regina starts to develop some humanity? But not only have both women only been interested in men previously, they don't like each other, have few interests in common, completely different life philosophies, and one of them has repeatedly been abusive. That's a lot to overlook or tweak.

Personally, I've shipped lots of pairings without a realistic expectation (or sometimes even a desire) to see it actually happen onscreen. in lots of cases, it would just take a plot tweak here, or a pivotal decision that went another way, and you've got a viable pairing. But fics where they have to be so out of character they only keep eye or hair color? What' she point?

Where I'm getting lost is the anger directed at anyone who doesn't share their vision, and the inability to separate the characters from the actors. I mean, personally, I don't enjoy the character of Belle or EDR's performance. However, I wouldn't dream of directing any vitriol at EDR because Belle got back together with Rumple or because I think Belle's a self absorbed twit--EDR is just doing her job, seems like a lovely person, and isn't hurting anyone by pretending to be a fairytale character. I wouldn't even confront her about what I think of her acting ability, because, well, why? It's not entirely her fault I don't enjoy her performance.

(I'm not going to comment about certain others because I've had to stop reading some interviews in order to think kind thoughts.)

Edited July 13, 2015 by Mari

[Dani-Ellie]

Regina was practically unrecognizable as a character who was much nicer than she's ever been shown on screen (and of course she was the most amazing and beautiful person Emma has ever seen), Emma was suddenly this boring character whose only character trait was to cry about her problems to Regina, and Hook was completely out of character as someone Emma despised and he apparently liked to yell at her constantly.

 

I don't know how prevalent it is now but there also used to be a LOT of breaking up the Charming Family so Emma is "free" to go to Regina. Snow and Charming don't approve of the relationship between them (for a variety of reasons) and Emma pretty much walks out the door and goes to her little family of Regina and Henry. And really, if that floats your boat, fine, but it's something I could never stomach because no. Just no. After everything Emma has been through trying to find her family, I do not buy her just walking away from them. I do not buy Snow and Charming being so insensitive to Emma that they force her out the door like that. Hell, I don't even buy Regina allowing it! Especially Fanon Regina, who's so super understanding. Why would Fanon Regina want her girlfriend to leave her family, the family she's spent her entire life searching for?

 

At that point, you might as well just write original fiction, because the characters bare so little resemblance to the characters on the show that I honestly just do not get it.

 

And look, I get subtext ships. But I just don't understand this insistence that subtext somehow takes precendence over text, to the point of berating the actors, the writers, and their fellow fans, and I don't think I ever will.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Dani-Ellie

[Mari]

Yeah, if you have to vilify a huge numbers of characters to make your pairing/character work, something's wrong.

[RadioGirl27]

I once read a few lines from a SQ fan fiction and it had Emma acting like a petulant child and calling Regina, Gina.

[Camera One]

I can imagine A&E saying similar words as the animated Ursula, "Villifying is what we do, what we LIVE for..."

[october]

Yea, this seems hypocritical to me. A SQ fan will make a comment about the Evil Queen's boobs looking great in a dress but Colin is apparently sexist and gross for responding to a question about Emma's wardrobe. You can't have it both ways.

 

Yeah, they do the same thing with the characters too. Hook pursues Emma and uses inuendo and suddenly he's 'Captain Rapist', but Regina actually rapes someone and all we get from them is *tumbleweeds* or, even worse, them blaming Graham or saying it wasn't rape.

 

Why would Fanon Regina want her girlfriend to leave her family, the family she's spent her entire life searching for?

 

For conflict maybe? If they ignore or retcon Regina's abuse of Emma and her family, then what's left to write about? As an added bonus it makes Regina the poor, misunderstood victim and makes Emma hers and hers alone. It's quite the contrast to S4 Hook. If he was as abusive and controlling as some SQ'ers claim he is then he would've been happy for Emma to remain emotionally distant from her parents, because isolating their victims is what abusers do (*cough*Regina and Henry*cough*). Instead he encourages her to forgive them.

Edited July 13, 2015 by october

[sharky]

Listen, I'm not going to berate fan creators for their fanfic -- I've seen plenty of out-of-character fanfic for Captain Swan, for example. It's not unique to any one ship, and there are plenty of times all of us fanfic writers have to bend over backwards to make something work.

 

My problem is that, unfortunately, when you decide to support a fanon ship vs. a canon ship, there are certain things you have to accept that a canon ship fan does not, mainly that TPTB are going to support canon both on and off screen. That's why the Internet is so great because it supports a fanon and gives those fans a common ground. That's just something that a fanon fan has to accept and I think that's where the biggest disconnect is. I don't know what it is about SQ fans, but there seem to be no understanding that it's OK to like a fanon and be a part of that fanon as long as you are positive about it and don't spread your frustration and negativity through the fandom. I have no problem with any fans -- SQ or otherwise -- being fans of whatever as long as they don't take it out on the actors or other fans, which seems to be a problem with SQ more than others.

 

On the other hand, if you want to do something positive, there's this tumblr post about supporting actors of the show on Twitter next week with positive messages to block out all the hate. I am all for this and plan on participating!

[Dani-Ellie]

Listen, I'm not going to berate fan creators for their fanfic -- I've seen plenty of out-of-character fanfic for Captain Swan, for example. It's not unique to any one ship, and there are plenty of times all of us fanfic writers have to bend over backwards to make something work.

 

Oh, absolutely. That's why I don't like to read AUs as a general rule. I prefer the stuff I read to be based in canon because I want to read the further adventures of the characters I see on my TV screen every Sunday. If I wanted to read about the adventures of two kids in high school, for example, I'd go get a YA novel. But that's just a personal quirk of mine, so the stories I clicked into that had the characters wildly OOC just rubbed me the wrong way.

 

My problem is that, unfortunately, when you decide to support a fanon ship vs. a canon ship, there are certain things you have to accept that a canon ship fan does not, mainly that TPTB are going to support canon both on and off screen.

 

This is ultimately my issue, too. People are absolutely free to write their fic and make their art and squee all they want. But when their squee is so zealous that it becomes abusive to real people, that's where I have the issue.

 

When neither Emma nor Regina were canonically attached, it was a little different because there was that little glimmer of hope. But now both of them are in canon relationships with other characters, and I'm sorry, but Captain Swan and Outlaw Queen are not going to go away. It may be disappointing to some but that's life. The overzealous fans need to find a way to deal with that that doesn't involve being harassing asshats.

[Souris]

This is JMO we're talking about. I think I've heard her say approximately 55 times "Colin liked the stolen dress in the season 3 finale A LOT." I assume if she was unconfortable about Colin making jokes about liking Emma's wardrobe, SHE wouldn't make jokes about Colin liking Emma's wardrobe.

 

Not to mention Jen commenting during last SDCC about how Colin's Prince Charles pants were tight. "Just saying." If they can make comments like that to/about each other and it doesn't bother them, then it shouldn't bother anybody else. Friends tease each other. What a shock!

 

This is ultimately my issue, too. People are absolutely free to write their fic and make their art and squee all they want. But when their squee is so zealous that it becomes abusive to real people, that's where I have the issue.

 

Exactly! Crackship to your heart's content, just don't try to force that crackship on the writers and cast members. Head canon isn't canon.

 

I can't deny, I'm amused that after a weekend of SQ shippers relentlessly begging for a selfie of Jen & Lana, Jen posted a pic of her and Colin.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Souris

[Panopticon]

This is JMO we're talking about. I think I've heard her say approximately 55 times "Colin liked the stolen dress in the season 3 finale A LOT." I assume if she was unconfortable about Colin making jokes about liking Emma's wardrobe, SHE wouldn't make jokes about Colin liking Emma's wardrobe.

As with everything, context is key. A joke your close friend may find hilarious could be found very inappropriate by another person, a stranger. It's very clear that Jen and Colin are very close friends and they've probably told those jokes many times before.

And in addition to whatever Jen and Colin's feelings on the subject may be, it's very much a ComicCon tradition for actors to spend the weekend making that sort of joke. It's something they can do that amuses the crowd without fail and it doesn't involve giving out spoilers, so why wouldn't they?

The example that always comes to mind for me is several years ago at a panel for BBC's Merlin. The actor who played Arthur was talking about his "sword" and the actress who played Morgana, sitting next to him, shoved her name tag in his face so he could read the warning about how some members of the audience are under 18. He looked up, said no one seemed to be under 18, and carried on.

Or to look directly at this cast this year... We had Josh Dallas joking about conducting an imaginary orchestra with his dick. (Yeah, Colin held the door open for that line, but nobody made Josh walk through it.) Then there's the TVLine interview where the interviewer is the one who starts in on Dark Emma "raising Hook's pirate flag" and Josh responds by putting a pillow over Colin's crotch. That was the time Jen really blushed, and Colin had nothing to do with it, maybe because he was busy blushing as well.

Even if Colin and Jen hated each other, they'd likely still be out at ComicCon joking about how hot Hook and Emma are for each other... Because it's part of their job.

But an actor doing his/her job never stopped lunatic fringe fans from getting outraged before.

[OnceUponAJen]

Listen, I'm not going to berate fan creators for their fanfic -- I've seen plenty of out-of-character fanfic for Captain Swan, for example. It's not unique to any one ship, and there are plenty of times all of us fanfic writers have to bend over backwards to make something work.

On the other hand, if you want to do something positive, there's this tumblr post about supporting actors of the show on Twitter next week with positive messages to block out all the hate. I am all for this and plan on participating!

I'm going to participate too, sharky! It's a great idea. I think there is far more love than not, for the show and cast. Also thanks to all you fanfic writers for sharing your talent!

[pezgirl7]

Then there's the TVLine interview where the interviewer is the one who starts in on Dark Emma "raising Hook's pirate flag" and Josh responds by putting a pillow over Colin's crotch. That was the time Jen really blushed, and Colin had nothing to do with it, maybe because he was busy blushing as well.

 

What made me angry was that there were some fans who didn't like the way Josh and Colin behaved in that interview, and some actually thought Colin said the line since there were some gifs which it made it seem that way. And they were like, Oh, poor Jen, you can see how uncomfortable she was, we know she doesn't like stuff like that, and Lana looks so concerned for her baby, awwww. Were they even watching the same thing I was?! These are grown ass adults. I'm sure they can handle a little PG innuendo.

[Serena]

And they were like, Oh, poor Jen, you can see how uncomfortable she was, we know she doesn't like stuff like that, and Lana looks so concerned for her baby, awwww. Were they even watching the same thing I was?! These are grown ass adults. I'm sure they can handle a little PG innuendo.

The funny thing is them acting like they "know" Jen doesn't like those kinds of jokes... when each time she makes those jokes (she's usually the one to make Colin blush) they call her a bimbo. What?! Does Jen change personality according to their needs like Emma does?

Edited July 13, 2015 by Serena

[maryle]

Well, once upon a time I learned that Jen is simultaneously in the closed, homophobic and promiscuous with men with some of these people.

Maybe she has a multiple personality disorder?

What?! Does Jen change personality according to their needs like Emma does?

[mjgchick]

I've seen some POC who are LGBT get called racist and homophobic just because they don't ship it so I can't take anything they say seriously especially when they love to call Sean and Colin Captain Rapist or misogynistic but then stans Regina or Rumple you know the guy who killed his wife because she refused to come home. Girl bye.

[maryle]

Really sorry if my intention was not clear, my comment was purely a sacarm. I'm not English speaking.

My intention was to show that B.A express the most polar opposite sentence about Jen at same time because they do not care about her and use to fit their agenda at the moment.

By example this week end because they do not like her answer at a loaded question, they are beginning a new narrative ,for them Jen does not her scene or her text.

I absolutely find all what they are doing repulsive and extremely demeaning to Jen.

Jen for me seems an authentic caring person ,a total class act who deserve that people respect her private life.

[Scovies]

The funny thing is them acting like they "know" Jen doesn't like those kinds of jokes... when each time she makes those jokes (she's usually the one to make Colin blush) they call her a bimbo. What?! Does Jen change personality according to their needs like Emma does?

 

Seriously. In that Access Hollywood video where Colin surprised Jen by interviewing her, she brought up how Hook would dig the new costumes she'd be wearing. It seems like a running joke between the two of them.

[Souris]

It's clearly something they're both talking about because they probably aren't allowed to talk about other things or simply don't know enough to talk about.

[Faemonic]

 not only have both women only been interested in men previously

Hey, they made Sleeping Warrior happen, so that's definitely not a disqualifier. I wonder where is Shang, by the way. (Actually, where is Mulan even she was supposed to be a Merry Man and Robin Hood was unusually present the past season and a half.)

, they don't like each other, have few interests in common, completely different life philosophies, and one of them has repeatedly been abusive. That's a lot to overlook or tweak.

 

Personally, I've shipped lots of pairings without a realistic expectation (or sometimes even a desire) to see it actually happen onscreen. in lots of cases, it would just take a plot tweak here, or a pivotal decision that went another way, and you've got a viable pairing. But fics where they have to be so out of character they only keep eye or hair color? What's the point?

Some people's headcanons do more than plot tweak. Instead of thinking from the perspectives of both characters as people and seeing the chemistry start to bubble, it could become more symbolic. Swan Thief, which I cannot get on board with because of the details, can still be (seen as) romantic because it's the First Love True Love story that I'm guessing many viewers still on their first love want to believe it's epic, and Swan Thief reflects it back to them. (Or it did, ha ha.)

 

Some people ship Captain Swan because Emma has so many walls that her personal needs don't have any airholes to keep her alive, and Hook pokes right through to that...I am not a fan of how pushy or even how "steadfast" he was without Emma's reciprocation. At all. Other people ship them because they like to get into Emma's skin and live the fantasy of changing a villain like Hook for the better. I don't get that appeal, either. Maybe my headcanon of the relationship dynamic would be straight from Cloud Cuckoo to fellow shippers.

 

Swan Queen? Some people like to be challenged in a relationship, and what would give you that more than the vision of diametric opposites. When the symbolism is prioritized in the same way as I just described with other couples, then the details that turn symbolic representation characters into people/personality characters aren't as important. (Besides, 4.05 already twisted Emma's character as a person beyond recognition.)

 

Both approaches are fine because it's fiction. If a real-life person tries to heap all these ideals onto their real-life partner, either they'll get taken advantage of or their partner crumbles into insanity from the pressure. Just as long as it's kept to fanfiction and fiction everything is f...

 

Where I'm getting lost is the anger directed at anyone who doesn't share their vision, and the inability to separate the characters from the actors.

 

...I was about to say "...ine" but I think now I'll go with "...ucked." Where was YNB's tweets about the Commandments Of Fandom? That was awesome.

 

Yeah, if you have to vilify a huge numbers of characters to make your pairing/character work, something's wrong.

 

Some fandoms have writing workshops specifically for that fandom, I think it started with The Lord of the Rings (in order to bridge the movies and the book canon) but the Official Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel Fanfiction University actually had a chapter "course" about not writing hate-fic about characters you don't like. The assignment was to write a fanfic centered on a character you don't like, without bashing them. Fun times.

[Serena]

That Canadian pap Larry just lives for starting wank in the fandom, doesn't he?

I have a theory for why he panders to the Swan Queen fans so much. It's because every other fandom called him out when he was a complete dick to Ginny and Jen during the early seasons, while the SQ fans in general basically behave like him so they supported him.

[sharky]

I didn't know what you were talking about so I went to his twitter feed. What a joke. First, he posts pictures he labels as Swan Queen because apparently there was a tree blocking his view of Colin. OK, whatever. Then he posts a picture of "all the Once actors" who took pictures with fans. It was a four-panel shot of him with Beverly (who plays Granny) and three black photos labeled "Nobody" which led to this awesome exchange:

 

Larry you've met them multiple times. They don't HAVE to come out every single time. This is so uncalled for and entitled.

 

@CarrieLynne2323 I just feel bad for the people that came from Florida, France, and other places and didn't get to meet more then Bev

 

I've been up there twice & I only met Colin.You don't show up at someone's job & ridicule them for not catering to you.

 

@CarrieLynne2323 I did mean it more as a joke than serious ridicule; the cast for the most part are great with fans and me in particular

 

They are great. And you're SO lucky you've met so many of them. It would be nice to see more appreciation and less mocking.

 

I hate that "It was meant as a joke" excuse. And other fans went after him too. Two other tweets said, "They're working. In that moment, they aren't there to cater to you or other fans." and "Maybe I'm naive, but isn't their job on set to get there scenes done so we can enjoy them?"

 

I love the spoiler photos, don't get me wrong, but some of these fans and "fans" who are on set all the time get a little egotistical about their position within the on-set pecking order.

[Souris]

I find him to be a jerk and a total creeper. But, dammit, he provides good spoiler photos. I wouldn't want to come out if he was there, either.

[Serena]

I find him to be a jerk and a total creeper. But, dammit, he provides good spoiler photos. I wouldn't want to come out if he was there, either.

Right? I was so conflicted because he posted an absolutely adorable photo of JMo with little Roland, but I didn't want to reblog and give him clicks/attention.

[RedKeep]

 

I find him to be a jerk and a total creeper. But, dammit, he provides good spoiler photos. I wouldn't want to come out if he was there, either.

I think, apart from the fact that they're obviously working and have better things to do, this is exactly the problem to be honest. He doesn't seem to understand that if he's there he's not exactly helping other fans who would like to meet the cast. He's there pretty much everytime they film on location, this summer he went to at last three conventions with OUAT actors in attendance in both Europe and the US... I don't blame any of the actors if they don't want to deal with him every single time, especially since many must be very well aware of what he's saying about them on his Twitter whenever they fail to meet his expectations for whatever reason.

[sharky]

Wait, he actually went to Once conventions? That just ups the creepy factor. I thought he was just a set stalker in Vancouver who covered a bunch of different TV shows. I didn't realize he actually took his act on the road as well.

 

Which brings up an unrelated question of how exactly he makes money. I mean, who pays for these photo exclusives? Because everything that has been posted in the spoiler thread has been free.

[Camera One]

That's so creepy.  Does he get ads on his blog or something?  Maybe he sells the autographs.  Or do those entertainment sites pay for info?  He's kind of like a paparazzi... a major pest, but I guess they need to allow it since it provides secondary buzz on the web, with people desperate for any new info.  I was listening to a radio news program yesterday and the hosts were very negative on Comic-con, how it has turned into an event totally controlled by the big studios parceling out so-called exclusive sneak-peeks which are basically ads for their product.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Camera One

[sharky]

They have to allow it because they can't restrict it. It's the same in the U.S. These scenes are being shot on public land or, if it's private, being shot within view of public land. Same reason why paps get away with taking photos of celebrities out to dinner or shopping or whatever. As long as it's public property, they have that right. If he sells autographs, I can understand him making some money that way. Autograph hounding has become a pretty lucrative job too in recent years. I just don't see a market for these types of set photos. There may be one website that would buy them, but they probably don't get paid much. And then you factor in the other set stalkers that are there on a regular basis and the photo pool becomes even more saturated.

 

Which brings me to something I've actually been thinking about lately for some other things as well. How do you make money if you're available to swing by the set whenever you want and take photos? I mean, are these people students or have no jobs or what? And at some point, do the actors think you're creepy and then do you realize that you're creepy?