S01.E01: Pilot

[Shadow42]

1 hour ago, DeeDee79 said:

Agreed. The mothership deviated from canon too many times to count. I don't fully understand why it's been such a sticking point for the spinoff. 

Because a lot of us had hoped Jensen and Robbie would do better.

[Featherhat]

10 hours ago, Bergamot said:

Latika reminded me of Willow -- but as you say, that's not a bad thing for me. She is intelligent, good at puzzles, a little timid, and apparently has trouble making friends, maybe because of shyness. Also I like that she is a librarian. I love libraries! In the early years of Supernatural, Dean and Sam would go to a library to do research on their own, and I preferred that to later when they would call Bobby (or later Rowena) to be provided with the answers.

I really liked when Latika, who is obviously nervous herself, says to John, "It is okay to be a little nervous". And he is so kind and gentle with her, telling her that he is nervous too and that they can be nervous together. It was a nice character moment for the two of them, and I liked the big brother/little sister vibe between the two of them.

I liked that. I thought it was a really good and not completely obvious way to connect the characters and show John as more than a bumbling but eager "Soldier Boy" who's on a Dad mission. 

Quote

To me, this weakened the strength of the original foundation of the show, and I am hoping that with The Winchesters we could get back more to this concept. That's why I like the idea that Carlos is a hunter not because it is his special chosen destiny, but because a ghoul killed his family. And so now, he hunts the kinds of things that killed them.

Yes, I prefer it when shows/movies/books move away from the Chosen One/Special One plot device and go with people who choose to do this for no other reason than they believe it's the right thing to do. 

3 hours ago, Bergamot said:

The part with the menu made me laugh, not just because John obediently reads it off (he is probably thinking, "Okay, I guess this is no crazier than anything else that has happened today!") but mainly because of the way he recites it, with such total energy and enthusiasm. 😄 Like, if you need a menu read out loud to a demon, John will get it done!

I thought it was genuinely a very funny moment between the two, as was the whole of Carlos's introduction but I am wary of the CW's habit of completely flanderizing (well most of their characters) but especially the designated "comic relief" until all nuance is drained away. 

[DeeDee79]

6 hours ago, Shadow42 said:

Because a lot of us had hoped Jensen and Robbie would do better.

A lot of us feel that they did just fine.

[Bergamot]

7 hours ago, Shadow42 said:

Because a lot of us had hoped Jensen and Robbie would do better.

Considering that we have just seen the show’s pilot, for me it is too soon to already decide that they haven’t. At least in this particular area. The way in which they are already MILES ahead, in my opinion, is that they have acknowledged that things have been changed, that they have promised that there will be an explanation for it, and that they have said that they will not erase what has already happened on the original show.

Whether someone likes or can accept their explanation, of course, is up to each individual to decide. Everyone has different lines that cannot be crossed.
 

[Snow Apple]

I may not remember or heard correctly, but did someone (demon or person, I forget) call John "Nick" at one point in the beginning?" My hearing is not what they used to be. 

[Nick24]

16 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

I may not remember or heard correctly, but did someone (demon or person, I forget) call John "Nick" at one point in the beginning?" My hearing is not what they used to be. 

I heard that as ''slick''.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Nick24

[goyour-own-way]

12 hours ago, Shadow42 said:

According to Milly John forged his I D or used someone else's. At 17 did they need parental consent ln 1970?

I assume anyone under 18 would need a waiver from a parent, and Millie said John forged his father's signature. If they're going with John's birth year being 1954 he actually enlisted when he was 16.

[Katy M]

On 10/11/2022 at 9:59 PM, Nick24 said:

This didn't bother me, because demons (angels, too) were already turned into some joke in the latter seasons of SPN.

Yes, but this takes place pre-series and they were much harder to fight at the beginning of the series. The had some kind of devolution which shouldn't have occurred yet.

[tennisgurl]

I was not really sure what to expect from this show, I was excited to return to the Supernatural universe with some new energy but have never been a big fan of John or Mary, but I thought that this was really good. And its not just because its so great seeing Jensen as Dean again, working on this new project, although that certainly helps. I really like all of the characters so far and the actors playing them, I am glad that the show seems to be building more of a regular cast instead of just John and Mary, it helps give the show a different vibe than Supernatural and its two person ensemble. I also really like the 70s as a setting, Supernatural always had a sort of 70s vibe anyway despite being set in modern day, it feels really like to take the franchise back to the time period its always loved so much. Not only does it mean we can get even more awesome classic rock in our soundtrack, but the 70s was pretty heavy on real life supernatural occurrences that were all over the news, so it seems like the perfect decade to set a monster fighting show. 

Drake and Meg have great chemistry already, and I am impressed at how much I already like young John and Mary and am invested in their relationship, even knowing how badly this all turns out for them. Like I said, I was not a fan of either of them in Supernatural, but I am interested in seeing how they go from these people to the people we meet later on. You can see some nuggets of who they are going to be one day already. Young John was such a sweet cinnamon roll, I love how enthusiastically he read that shopping list. Its been a weird day for him, for all he knows demons are fought with random ingredients he can get at the store. 

I already really like Carlos and Latika, they have great chemistry with Mary and John and I can tell I am really going to like their dynamics as a group. They all had really nice moments together as a group and as individual parings, I especially liked the bit where John and Latika talked about how it was alright to be scared. I am also happy that they both seem like pretty normal people as of now, no special powers or destiny or ancient lineage, just regular people who fight monsters. They both have very district personalities and are very likable right away.

I am hoping that the show continues the back to basics feeling of this episode, less cosmic epics of gods and monsters where everyone has a special destiny and the show keeps having to make up new cosmic entities that are scarier than the last all powerful cosmic entities. We'll have some of that I'm sure at some point of the show goes on for awhile, but I am excited to go back to a "saving people, hunting thing" type of show, also while looking for a missing parent with secrets to discover. 

[Nick24]

46 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Yes, but this takes place pre-series and they were much harder to fight at the beginning of the series. The had some kind of devolution which shouldn't have occurred yet.

The thing is that imo demons/angels became weaker in SPN not because something had happened to them and their abilities, but because the writers just wanted them to be weaker. 

[Lastcall]

I think the pilot was good solid start. Not as good as the original pilot but lots of potential.

I loved the Indiana Jones/ Samuel Campbell open, but I have a hard time believing Tom Welling and Mitch Pelegi are playing the same character.

The Akrida really interest me. I get a very Lovecraft vibe from them, and they could potentially be a great new villain we haven't seen before.

John was good. Drake didn't have the gravitas that JDM brought to the role right off the bat, but he is playing a John who had a completely different personality at the time. I'm glad they gave him a hero moment right from the start and I have no worries that he will be sidelined. He is very believable as Sam and Dean's parent particularly Sam's which is consistent with the Mothership. Mary had the same qualities and I'm glad they didn't make her the best hunter ever right from the start. Mary is good and is consistent with where Sam and Dean were in Season one. Drake and Meg have good chemistry and there is a lot of potential once they have had enough time to explore and develop their characters. I had a bit of a problem with how quickly John accepted the supernatural world, but I understand it was a pilot and they had to move things along.

I was a little worried about Carlos after the NYCC interviews and reviews, but he was fine. I don't see how some of the reviews consider him a gay stereotype. Carlos fits right in with the 70's theme they are going with, and Jojo seems to represent the character well. Latika and Ada were likable, but they will need some episodes focusing on them before they really stand out. John's mom was interesting and hope they develop her more.

I loved the monsters. I know they may have looked cheesy but it's a breath of fresh air to see monsters that aren't contact lenses and nail extensions. The Akrida look interesting and like I said, I love the Lovecraft vibe. Loved the Loup-Garou but can see if others don't. Also, loved that they brought the Demon voice back. 

Really loved the Dean part and it opens up a lot of possibilities. I was worried that Robbie Thompson's weaker tendencies would be evident, but he has really grown as a writer (at least for the pilot). He didn't oversell his creations, and there was no scene where someone says how great and super special Carlos, Latika or Ada are. Everyone was likable from the beginning and there were no cringe or dislikable characters. It helps that he is a huge Dean fan and that is such a pleasant change after the Dabb years.

So, over all a win. Had a better-than-expected debut and now can now only hope the drop off isn't severe. It's still a horrible uphill battle but I actually see a possible path for renewal now. 

[Katy M]

26 minutes ago, Nick24 said:

The thing is that imo demons/angels became weaker in SPN not because something had happened to them and their abilities, but because the writers just wanted them to be weaker. 

Yeah.  I know. I was kind of kidding.  I actually didn't watch this, but wanted to see what people were saying about it.  I watched the Big Bang Theory and now I watch Young Sheldon, but I treat it as a completely different show and don't care if it's "canonically correct."  It does drive me a bit bonkers when people try to make it canonically correct, by basically saying Adult Sheldon pretty much just misremembered everything about his adulthood.  But, my point is, if I do decide to watch this, I will be treating it as a completely different show that just happens to have similar characters, or whatever.  

[tessathereaper]

22 hours ago, ahrtee said:

They did.  I was referring to the beginning of the ep, when John got off the bus and went to see his mom, with everyone coatless and enjoying the sunshine.  Even at night, when they were fighting the demon, no warm clothing, no puddles, no leftover snow.😊  

John was in a uniform, they are made out of wool and probably warm enough and Mary was wearing a leather jacket.  I think the uniform and leather jacket were probably enough.  

In fact March of 1972 in Kansas appears to have been warmer than normal(average daily temp in the 60s) . In Lawrence KS it was a pleasant 62 degrees on March 23rd 1972, though it was cold at night but I think we can give the show a pass for that. 😃

[tessathereaper]

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

Yes, but this takes place pre-series and they were much harder to fight at the beginning of the series. The had some kind of devolution which shouldn't have occurred yet.

This will all be explained.  They went into everything else, they certainly didn't just miss that prior to when the show started demons were a fairly rare occurrence, it was mentioned more than once.  So if there is a difference here, it ties into everything, into all the differences, that they have said they will be explaining by episode 13.

[ahrtee]

41 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

John was in a uniform, they are made out of wool and probably warm enough and Mary was wearing a leather jacket.  I think the uniform and leather jacket were probably enough.  

In fact March of 1972 in Kansas appears to have been warmer than normal(average daily temp in the 60s) . In Lawrence KS it was a pleasant 62 degrees on March 23rd 1972, though it was cold at night but I think we can give the show a pass for that. 😃

I'm just nitpicking for the heck of it, because I'm a long-time proofreader and librarian, and it's ingrained. 😀

But if you notice the picture that someone posted in another thread showing John getting off the bus, you can see that *all* the trees were in full leaf, not just budding or starting to leaf out.  And all the extras in the background were wearing lightweight clothing.  So it may have been warm enough during the day to wear light jackets, but the trees know better.  Still, I enjoyed the show enough to give it a pass. 😃

[Aeryn13]

18 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

This will all be explained.  They went into everything else, they certainly didn't just miss that prior to when the show started demons were a fairly rare occurrence, it was mentioned more than once.  So if there is a difference here, it ties into everything, into all the differences, that they have said they will be explaining by episode 13.

I think the explanation was at the end already. The current threat is not just to humanity but also to monsters and demons so naturally they are all looking for ways to curb it and that`s why demons have been active enough that hunters like the Campbell took notice. Once this threat is dealt with, I reckon demons go more or less into a dormant period until Yellow Eyes puts his plan in motion.

Demons (and angels) seem to be very time-tabled oriented beings, heh. They are occasionally around so people dealing with supernatural entities have picked up things on them but they only come out in numbers for "events". 

Now for the most part, I did think the Pilot handled the powers of demons well - obviously the one here was small-fry power-wise - except for that one scene when Mary seemed to be the stronger fighter in a flat-out punching contest. That could have been an easy fix with some weaponry. Oh well, when SPN was still charming and goofy early on, I allowed for a lot of gaffes like this. So it`s kinda in the spirit of the original.      

[tessathereaper]

5 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think the explanation was at the end already. The current threat is not just to humanity but also to monsters and demons so naturally they are all looking for ways to curb it and that`s why demons have been active enough that hunters like the Campbell took notice. Once this threat is dealt with, I reckon demons go more or less into a dormant period until Yellow Eyes puts his plan in motion.

Demons (and angels) seem to be very time-tabled oriented beings, heh. They are occasionally around so people dealing with supernatural entities have picked up things on them but they only come out in numbers for "events". 

Now for the most part, I did think the Pilot handled the powers of demons well - obviously the one here was small-fry power-wise - except for that one scene when Mary seemed to be the stronger fighter in a flat-out punching contest. That could have been an easy fix with some weaponry. Oh well, when SPN was still charming and goofy early on, I allowed for a lot of gaffes like this. So it`s kinda in the spirit of the original.      

In The Beginning and Samuel and Mary's reaction seemed to show that even at that time demons were not especially common. Obviously they were known, hunters with any experience at all would know how to fight them but it seems to me that demons not all that common where hunters would be that relatively casual about it. So I'd think the fact that demons seem to be a dime a dozen and enough for experienced hunters to practically roll their eyes about  them showing up, is an actual change from the original show but one that will tie into the explanation of why so much else is different.

So basically yes to what you are explaining but ALL of that ties into the reasons everything is different and we don't exactly know the nuts and bolts of that yet.

[Shadow42]

11 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

A lot of us feel that they did just fine.

So Dabb or Drabb s year's are just fine now?

[Shadow42]

10 hours ago, Bergamot said:

Considering that we have just seen the show’s pilot, for me it is too soon to already decide that they haven’t. At least in this particular area. The way in which they are already MILES ahead, in my opinion, is that they have acknowledged that things have been changed, that they have promised that there will be an explanation for it, and that they have said that they will not erase what has already happened on the original show.

Whether someone likes or can accept their explanation, of course, is up to each individual to decide. Everyone has different lines that cannot be crossed.
 

If they hadn't doubled down on not changing canon and lore and made a huge point of letting fans know that Jules was a consultant on staff I wouldn't be questioning their choices. But as it stands right now canon has been changed with no explanation. And most fans haven't watched panels or interview's.

A lot fans rightly have doubts/concern's about the direction the show is headed. And you are correct when you say that's okay.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Shadow42

[Aeryn13]

10 minutes ago, Shadow42 said:

If they hadn't doubled down on not changing canon and lore and made a huge point of letting fans know that Jules was a consultant on staff I wouldn't be questioning their choices. But as it stands right now canon has been changed with no explanation. And most fans haven't watched panels or interview's.

A lot fans rightly have doubts/concern's about the direction the show is headed. And you are correct when you say that's okay.

What should they have done, answer the mystery of why things appear different right now in the first minute of the Pilot? They set it up via dialogue in the episode that there IS a mystery and they are saying out of show that the answer to it will be in episode 13. There is not that much more they can do right now IMO.

Now if I thought they were JJ Abrahams-ing it ("I swear Khan is not in the movie" - movie comes out, Khan is in it) and despite them saying the answer comes in ep 13, nothing will happen, then yes, I would be worried. But nothing about them as people gives me that vibe. 

If people take issue with canon seemingly being "changed" at this point, fine, but that has been clear from the start. They never said they would not have a mystery about it in the first place. Quite the opposite. That John was involved in the hunting here has been in the premise, in the trailer, everything. So when Jensen and Robbie T. said "we`re not changing canon", did people seriously think those would not be in the show regardless?      

Edited October 13, 2022 by Aeryn13

[DeeDee79]

24 minutes ago, Shadow42 said:

So Dabb or Drabb s year's are just fine now?

Not sure what you're talking about since I was clearly talking about Jensen and Robbie. 

Edited October 13, 2022 by DeeDee79

[Lastcall]

32 minutes ago, Shadow42 said:

If they hadn't doubled down on not changing canon and lore and made a huge point of letting fans know that Jules was a consultant on staff I wouldn't be questioning their choices. But as it stands right now canon has been changed with no explanation. And most fans haven't watched panels or interview's.

A lot fans rightly have doubts/concern's about the direction the show is headed. And you are correct when you say that's okay.

That’s my big concern, casual fans that don’t watch interviews and old fans willing to give it a shot but bail because it’s different from what the story was back then. There have been complaints popping up here and there but it’s not near as bad as it was when the trailer dropped and that’s a good sign. We should know next week if there is a significant change in the ratings. Overall, the reaction to the pilot has been pretty positive so I’m hoping it didn’t matter to most people that watched the premier.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Lastcall

[Shadow42]

57 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

What should they have done, answer the mystery of why things appear different right now in the first minute of the Pilot? They set it up via dialogue in the episode that there IS a mystery and they are saying out of show that the answer to it will be in episode 13. There is not that much more they can do right now IMO.

Now if I thought they were JJ Abrahams-ing it ("I swear Khan is not in the movie" - movie comes out, Khan is in it) and despite them saying the answer comes in ep 13, nothing will happen, then yes, I would be worried. But nothing about them as people gives me that vibe. 

If people take issue with canon seemingly being "changed" at this point, fine, but that has been clear from the start. They never said they would not have a mystery about it in the first place. Quite the opposite. That John was involved in the hunting here has been in the premise, in the trailer, everything. So when Jensen and Robbie T. said "we`re not changing canon", did people seriously think those would not be in the show regardless?      

Like I said a lot of if not most fans haven't seen all the behind the scenes explanations. What they see are the trailers. From that alone canon was drastically changed and nothing in the Pilot cleared anything up. Dean talking about a mystery didn't do anything to clear up the descrepencies either.

I have watched all the interviews and panels and I kind of see where they might be heading (Robbie said super fans would get it). So I'm interested enough to continue watching to see if I'm on the right track.

And I think Drake is carrying the show, I hope Robbie and Jensen realize that and let him.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Shadow42

[Aeryn13]

23 minutes ago, Shadow42 said:

Like I said a lot of if not most fans haven't seen all the behind the scenes explanations. What they see are the trailers. From that alone canon was drastically changed and nothing in the Pilot cleared anything up. Dean talking about a mystery didn't do anything to clear up the descrepencies either.

But again, if they had cleared it up right away, that means they wouldn`t have had a mystery there at all. Now obviously that is a gamble but storytelling-wise, it would have been just as much of a gamble to have Dean give clumsy exposition like "and this happened in a parallel dimension" or "let me tell you how all this happened before an angel wiped everyone`s minds". 

Either you explain everything completely right from the start or not, there is really no in-between if they thought people will freak out immediately because of the changes to the known story.  

I think the strategy they picked is the better one. No idea if it will prove to be too risky but I would have though the other way was terrible writing.  

[Bergamot]

17 hours ago, Featherhat said:

I thought it was genuinely a very funny moment between the two, as was the whole of Carlos's introduction but I am wary of the CW's habit of completely flanderizing (well most of their characters) but especially the designated "comic relief" until all nuance is drained away. 

Yes, that would be a shame. I think Carlos could be an interesting character; I liked the actor's line-readings and I want to learn more about Carlos and Latika as well. Hopefully we will have an opportunity to do this in the next few episodes.

8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

And its not just because its so great seeing Jensen as Dean again, working on this new project, although that certainly helps.

I have to admit that just hearing Dean's voice put a huge, helpless grin on my face; I could not stop smiling! 😍 I miss Dean.

5 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Now for the most part, I did think the Pilot handled the powers of demons well - obviously the one here was small-fry power-wise - except for that one scene when Mary seemed to be the stronger fighter in a flat-out punching contest. That could have been an easy fix with some weaponry. Oh well, when SPN was still charming and goofy early on, I allowed for a lot of gaffes like this. So it`s kinda in the spirit of the original. 

Yes that didn't bother me too much. As you point out, on Supernatural there always were lots of different power levels for demons, from the small-fry on up to the knights of hell. In the first episode where Dean and Sam encountered a demon, "Phantom Traveler", Dean manages to subdue the demon on the plane with nothing but holy water, duct tape, and his fists as Sam reads the exorcism.

(Angels were another matter; for me it was sad to see how degraded they became on Supernatural as the seasons went on. Castiel went from a celestial being who burned people's eyes out and terrified demons so much that they fled from his presence, to someone who in a later season had to get in a fist fight with humans to take them down. But of course that is not relevant to TW at this point.)

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, Bergamot said:

Angels were another matter; for me it was sad to see how degraded they became on Supernatural as the seasons went on. 

So true! Remember when Crowley was afraid of Castiel ( when he was allowed to be at full power) and Abbadon was terrified when she realized that an angel was near even though she had multiple demons with her? It was disappointing when SPN made angels either bullies or downright useless during the Dabb years. I wonder if they will be shown here since it was said that Heaven made John and Mary fall in love.

[Featherhat]

I do get why some are upset/frustrated with the changes right now. When news about the show first broke I thought that these characters had already been thoroughly played out and couldn't they have come up with something else but Jensen and Robbie's insistence that they were well aware that it was different, that they'd both gone back and watched all the relevant episodes but that there was going to be an interesting reason for that got me intrigued.

Of course the flipside of that is that ep 13 *has* to deliver both in terms of exciting "this is more than just an angelic mind wipe" non let down and make sense in both shows.  Hopefully they'll manage it but at the very least they're taking both shows seriously, taking fans wanting canon and continuity seriously and expressing love for the shows and characters. Which is more than some showrunners and writers did. 

[MAK]

5 hours ago, Lastcall said:

That’s my big concern, casual fans that don’t watch interviews and old fans willing to give it a shot but bail because it’s different from what the story was back then.

Frankly, I don't think the GA/casual fans care that much about canon. Nor are they invested like the super fans who watch every panel and read every interview and have rewatched multiple times. 

I also have to wonder about fans bailing because "the story is different." This isn't Supernatural. It is not the Dean and Sam show, and no one has said it is or will be. Except that John knows about hunting, nothing has really changed in the original. I can understand old fans not liking it because it is now a CW teen/ya show instead of the older men show.

[Commando Cody]

A lot of times you have to throw the pilot out - like the first pancake. This wasn't terrible. I have nothing against the actors, but I found the two leads to be miscasts. After they all got into the van, I felt like I was watching an episode of Scooby Doo. I actually wondered where the dog was. 

I didn't have any issues with the rest of the cast. Just the two leads. I thought Meg was pretty good on American Housewife, but she isn't working in this role. I've never seen the person who plays John in anything before. 

The story was okay. I wasn't expecting a great pilot like the Supernatural pilot. Even with low expectations, this kind of fell flat. I will give it a few episodes to see if I can deal with the leads. 

[Shadow42]

4 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

But again, if they had cleared it up right away, that means they wouldn`t have had a mystery there at all. Now obviously that is a gamble but storytelling-wise, it would have been just as much of a gamble to have Dean give clumsy exposition like "and this happened in a parallel dimension" or "let me tell you how all this happened before an angel wiped everyone`s minds". 

Either you explain everything completely right from the start or not, there is really no in-between if they thought people will freak out immediately because of the changes to the known story.  

I think the strategy they picked is the better one. No idea if it will prove to be too risky but I would have though the other way was terrible writing.  

Dean did sort of give a hint about why John and Mary's story is different but it was confusing. In the trailers Dean said that the story of his parents was always a mystery to him. But at the end of the Pilot he talked about a big bad that was threatening the universe with total destruction that his parents had to prevent. So what part is the mystery? How they really met and surprise they actually were Hunters the entire time? Or how they saved the world from an invasion from outer space because surprise they were Hunters the entire time.

If you are a fan that has watched from day one Supernatural none of this follows canon.  Producers, actors and writers have been doubling down on promising they are preserving the original story. They even hired a consultant to make sure they adhere strictly to established lore.  But All we see is a show that is supposed to be a prequel  starting out telling a completely different story than the one we know. Yes I know this is just E1 but it's a rocky start.

[Nick24]

1 hour ago, Shadow42 said:

If you are a fan that has watched from day one Supernatural none of this follows canon.  Producers, actors and writers have been doubling down on promising they are preserving the original story. 

IIRC that's not exactly what they've been saying. They've been saying that nothing in ''Supernatural'' is going to change and that they're not going to throw away 15 years. So, by the end of the prequel we'll have come to the point when all of the original show events remain intact.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Nick24

[Nick24]

TBH, Supernatural has changed Mary/John story many times with no explanation. First, they were talking about Mary/John great love, but then they retconned it into ''They hated each other, it was all the angels''. First, they were talking about Mary quit hunting after her deal with Azazel. Then they retconned it into ''hunting after Dean was born''. And on and on. Just like they ran over the mythology in ''Taxi Driver''. They have never explained any of those retcons. Unlike them Jensen and Robbie are going to explain us what's going on in the prequel. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Nick24

[Aeryn13]

3 hours ago, Shadow42 said:

Dean did sort of give a hint about why John and Mary's story is different but it was confusing. In the trailers Dean said that the story of his parents was always a mystery to him. But at the end of the Pilot he talked about a big bad that was threatening the universe with total destruction that his parents had to prevent. So what part is the mystery? How they really met and surprise they actually were Hunters the entire time? Or how they saved the world from an invasion from outer space because surprise they were Hunters the entire time.

If you are a fan that has watched from day one Supernatural none of this follows canon.  Producers, actors and writers have been doubling down on promising they are preserving the original story. They even hired a consultant to make sure they adhere strictly to established lore.  But All we see is a show that is supposed to be a prequel  starting out telling a completely different story than the one we know. Yes I know this is just E1 but it's a rocky start.

From day one it was clear that John would hunt with Mary here. And that would be the show. So I don't see how the Pilot episode comes out - and this is what happens - it's a big betrayal  of "but they said". They never said the show wouldn’t follow the premise of the show. 

[PAForrest]

21 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think the explanation was at the end already. The current threat is not just to humanity but also to monsters and demons so naturally they are all looking for ways to curb it and that`s why demons have been active enough that hunters like the Campbell took notice. Once this threat is dealt with, I reckon demons go more or less into a dormant period until Yellow Eyes puts his plan in motion.

They said the new threat was a threat to "all of existence" - that obviously includes Heaven, though at this time no one knows anything about angels etc. And that could be why Dean is involved in some respect, either in Heaven or perhaps sent back to Earth temporarily. I'm now waffling on whether he's narrating from Heaven or Earth. But I'm still thinking it's post death because it's the only thing that makes sense.

Edited October 14, 2022 by PAForrest

[Lastcall]

11 hours ago, MAK said:

Frankly, I don't think the GA/casual fans care that much about canon. Nor are they invested like the super fans who watch every panel and read every interview and have rewatched multiple times. 

I also have to wonder about fans bailing because "the story is different." This isn't Supernatural. It is not the Dean and Sam show, and no one has said it is or will be. Except that John knows about hunting, nothing has really changed in the original. I can understand old fans not liking it because it is now a CW teen/ya show instead of the older men show.

I'm hoping that is the case but at this point I don't think the ratings even matter to Nexstar. I just read a Salon article, they don't even think All American will be renewed and that's their number one show. I'm looking at the entire season as the pilot now. If the show can hold viewers, the streaming bumps are good, and the fan reactions remain high then it shows to Zaslav that it has value and can make him money. That gets The Winchesters to Netflix or HBOMax. The only way the pilot could have started off better is if it had a slight bump and became the CW's number one show of the week. If it can maintain the level it is at now, it won't look like a failure when Nexstar cancels it. It will just look like they are cancelling everything because they want cheap international shows they can buy for pennies which 58-year Olds will leave on for background noise.

[Aeryn13]

6 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

I'm hoping that is the case but at this point I don't think the ratings even matter to Nexstar. I just read a Salon article, they don't even think All American will be renewed and that's their number one show. I'm looking at the entire season as the pilot now. If the show can hold viewers, the streaming bumps are good, and the fan reactions remain high then it shows to Zaslav that it has value and can make him money. That gets The Winchesters to Netflix or HBOMax. The only way the pilot could have started off better is if it had a slight bump and became the CW's number one show of the week. If it can maintain the level it is at now, it won't look like a failure when Nexstar cancels it. It will just look like they are cancelling everything because they want cheap international shows they can buy for pennies which 58-year Olds will leave on for background noise.

It did. In the final ratings, it became the nr.1 show of the week in both viewers and demo.

However, I don`t think it will determine things one way or another. Currently, there is a big upheaval with the CW network, with Warner, with Netflix, basically with any option. So the only way I would have thought the show was a failure was if I personally found it bad. So far the Pilot very pleasantly surprised me.     

[tessathereaper]

11 hours ago, Shadow42 said:

Dean did sort of give a hint about why John and Mary's story is different but it was confusing. In the trailers Dean said that the story of his parents was always a mystery to him. But at the end of the Pilot he talked about a big bad that was threatening the universe with total destruction that his parents had to prevent. So what part is the mystery? How they really met and surprise they actually were Hunters the entire time? Or how they saved the world from an invasion from outer space because surprise they were Hunters the entire time.

If you are a fan that has watched from day one Supernatural none of this follows canon.  Producers, actors and writers have been doubling down on promising they are preserving the original story. They even hired a consultant to make sure they adhere strictly to established lore.  But All we see is a show that is supposed to be a prequel  starting out telling a completely different story than the one we know. Yes I know this is just E1 but it's a rocky start.

Well they obviously changed the narration so you can kind of throw out the original narration in the trailer.  Most people are not going to be particular remember what was said in the trailer and trailers aren't canon, even film trialers often change by the time the film comes out.

Yes we know it doesn't follow canon and the show itself has said to paraphrase "yes this story looks different, there's a reason for it and we're going to figure it out".  I mean that was in the actual narration in the episode.

[Aeryn13]

You know something else that made me giggle in the episode? A very small bit but over the course of every supernatural-themed-show ever, what do characters do when they need to draw blood for something? Mainly a ritual but could be other things? Drag a big-ass knife right across their open palm. And this did the same thing. Twice.

And I`m like, is this an unbreakable tradition at this point or do TV writers across the board not know how much that hurt, how long that takes to heal and generally how impractical it is if you need to use than hand for fighting and holding a aweapon soon after? If you have a supernatural character with instant-healing, fine, but humans? Why, why does noone ever just cut their finger? 

[tessathereaper]

15 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

You know something else that made me giggle in the episode? A very small bit but over the course of every supernatural-themed-show ever, what do characters do when they need to draw blood for something? Mainly a ritual but could be other things? Drag a big-ass knife right across their open palm. And this did the same thing. Twice.

And I`m like, is this an unbreakable tradition at this point or do TV writers across the board not know how much that hurt, how long that takes to heal and generally how impractical it is if you need to use than hand for fighting and holding a aweapon soon after? If you have a supernatural character with instant-healing, fine, but humans? Why, why does noone ever just cut their finger? 

LOL That's true, and it's like every show ever.  It would hurt like a bitch and make it pretty much intensely painful to use that hand for weeks.  They could cut the top side of their arms or depending on how much blood they need a finger(but fingers can be a pain in the butt too, if you have to do anything with your hands and even just washing your hands the bandages will get wet).

Actually come to think of it, I think Dean did cut his arm once rather than his hand.  I'm getting a vague vision of Dean in an earlier season episode cutting his arm when they needed blood for something or maybe it was blood to attract something?

[Nick24]

2 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

Actually come to think of it, I think Dean did cut his arm once rather than his hand.  I'm getting a vague vision of Dean in an earlier season episode cutting his arm when they needed blood for something or maybe it was blood to attract something?

IIRC ''Lazarus Rising'' when Dean was trying to prove to Bobby that he was really Dean. And ''The Werther Project'' to open that box.  

[tessathereaper]

I knew it. 
 

I think he also did it in a vampire episode or something, maybe?  To attract the vampire so it could be killed?

But in any case hopefully these kids will learn quickly it's better NOT to cut your palm.

Edited October 14, 2022 by tessathereaper

[Bergamot]

13 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

I knew it. 
 

I think he also did it in a vampire episode or something, maybe?  To attract the vampire so it could be killed?

But in any case hopefully these kids will learn quickly it's better NOT to cut your palm.

Yes, that was in Fresh Blood, in Season 3, and Dean is using himself as bait, "chum in the water", as he puts it -- "I smell good, don't I?... Come on, free lunch!"

I never thought about it, but you all are right! Cutting your palm to get some blood is not a good idea! Unless, I don't know, the extra pain and suffering it causes is somehow part of the spell, or something like that. But probably the writers just think it looks more dramatic.

I liked the scene where John cuts the piece of silver out of his arm to use against the loup-garou. Except afterward I couldn't help wondering why he hadn't had it removed before. Was leaving the silver shard in his arm some kind of twisted way for him to keep alive the memory of his dead friend? Not a very healthy thing to do, but I like the idea of John being twisted and haunted by his war experiences. I hope that the repercussions of his time as a soldier comes up again.

[Shadow42]

On 10/14/2022 at 10:34 AM, tessathereaper said:

Well they obviously changed the narration so you can kind of throw out the original narration in the trailer.  Most people are not going to be particular remember what was said in the trailer and trailers aren't canon, even film trialers often change by the time the film comes out.

Yes we know it doesn't follow canon and the show itself has said to paraphrase "yes this story looks different, there's a reason for it and we're going to figure it out".  I mean that was in the actual narration in the episode.

We watched the trailer for months. Just because the dialogue was changed in the Pilot doesn't negate that. I'm pretty sure Jensen filmed that scene for the trailer on purpose. 

Dean's opening monologue didn't say anything about figuring out why the show looks different and the closing monologue only hinted at an invading universe destroying force. And yes it could be aliens. After all Sam and Dean have already defeated God. There really isn't anything else on or under earth to top that.

[Nick24]

5 hours ago, Shadow42 said:

Dean's opening monologue didn't say anything about figuring out why the show looks different and the closing monologue only hinted at an invading universe destroying force. 

It did. Dean said:

Quote

DEAN: Now I know this story might sound familiar, but I'm gonna put the pieces together in a way that might just surprise you.

[Nick24]

10 hours ago, Shadow42 said:

And yes it could be aliens. After all Sam and Dean have already defeated God. There really isn't anything else on or under earth to top that.

Why would we think that Robbie wants to top God? They don't have to go ''higher'' in the regard of the Big Bad to make the story interesting. Btw, I don't think Dean and Sam have defeated God, the other character has, but that's another story.

[Affogato]

On 10/11/2022 at 9:18 PM, Snow Apple said:

I admit I didn't watch much of the later seasons of Supernatural so it's weird that John knows about this stuff as a young man. I'm liking it so far though.

Anyone else thinks John looks like Sam in some angles including the bitchface(tm)? Good casting.

A lot like Sam! Almost disturbingly like Padalecki. And Mary is like Dean, invluding insisting like driving. 

[Casseiopeia]

6 hours ago, Nick24 said:

Why would we think that Robbie wants to top God? They don't have to go ''higher'' in the regard of the Big Bad to make the story interesting. Btw, I don't think Dean and Sam have defeated God, the other character has, but that's another story.

 "There's aliens...in space....with tentacles....I can't even"

Even Robbie thought that was ridiculous.

[Featherhat]

I doubt they're going to try and go "bigger than God." Most shows only end up trying to fight God/The Devil/TBTB in later seasons and they're rarely the most interesting villains. Obviously they set up John and Mary having to save all of existence which is huge but it might be on a less celestial scale than later SPN, to also keep the Buffy comparisons, sort of how Buffy stopped Hell breaching Earth many times with many Big Bads constantly wanting to end the world but it wasn't until S7 that she was fighting "The First Evil" directly.  TVD started off with Damon and then go progressively "bigger" until Cade/"some might call him the Devil". The gang could stop the Akreida breaching in the season final and if they do end up coming back for a 2nd somehow then they could try again in a different way next time without it actually topping "God" narratively. Although starting off with "all of existence" IS pretty hardcore if they plan to theoretically go with completely different BBs every season. Some have managed to "power down" and focus on "intimate villains" after a big one. 

Dean said in the show "that he's going to put the pieces together in a way that might surprise you." It's not exactly what he says in the early trailers about uncovering the real true" but IMHO it's getting at the same thing. Whilst some shows do record voiceovers specifically for trailers (or even scenes) it's possible that they just tried different variations on a theme to see which ones they preferred and one version ended up in the trailer and another in the show. We know they recut the show slightly from one that was given to some reviewers but it didn't seem to have drastically changed things. 

His ending scene attempts to be both be both omniscient narrator and to keep the mystery of why things are different from what we already know from SPN so that's why he's simultaneously "they didn't know they'd have to save all *everything* and also "but I don't know the full story yet!!" Which makes it a little awkward. But I don't think it means the show has failed simply because it didn't provide answers in the pilot since genre shows never do that. YMMV of course. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Featherhat

[TheGreenKnight]

I went into this with zero expectations--probably lower than zero really, I figured I'd give the first episode a look and then not watch anything else--but I ended up thinking it was decent. While I liked Mary, I always hated John and didn't think I could watch a whole series of them since it would focus on their romance, which always left me pretty cold. I thought the actors they picked for the two roles were both strong; John looks reminiscent to Sam and Mary to Dean just like they should. I think I'll keep watching even if I'm not as into it as Supernatural, as far as buying it on Blu-ray or anything like that.

I think the only thing I'd say bothers me so far is stuff that feels off from the original show.

All I remember is how it was said they had hated each other to begin with from one of the angels before they were forced together or John finding out about the Men of Letters when I thought he died never knowing what happened to his father.... The only thing good about that change is that hopefully the original actor for Henry Winchester on Supernatural appears on here as a cameo, always loved him. And then there's the deal with Azazel, which should only happen after she's with John romantically, and yet her mother is dead already unless I got confused (and why isn't Samuel dead??). I put this all in spoilers because I wasn't sure how much we're allowed to say about the original show here and didn't want to break any rules.

On 10/11/2022 at 7:18 PM, Snow Apple said:

I admit I didn't watch much of the later seasons of Supernatural so it's weird that John knows about this stuff as a young man. I'm liking it so far though.

Anyone else thinks John looks like Sam in some angles including the bitchface(tm)? Good casting.

I thought he looked similar to young Padalecki, too. But then by the end of the episode I couldn't stop seeing Cameron Diaz for some reason.

[TheGreenKnight]

On 10/12/2022 at 4:53 PM, FlickChick said:

I loved that when John read the letter from his dad, that it was Gil McKinney's (OG Henry) voice that we heard.

I thought it was him, but wasn't 100%. I thought it could be a replacement. I'm glad to know he's already been involved in one episode.

On 10/12/2022 at 9:01 PM, DeeDee79 said:

Agreed. The mothership deviated from canon too many times to count. I don't fully understand why it's been such a sticking point for the spinoff. 

I agree. I don't really mind deviations as long as it explains itself in the end to stick with the first show (even if the explanations are crazy, that's nothing new).