S02.E07: Lamia

[Kris117]

Yes, I think the woman in the bar is the woman from the next door balcony, Luisa. 

 

I appreciate the way the story fits together in a way that doesn't have that making-it-up-as-we-go-along feel. I mean, we now arrive at a point where Sonia, for whom there is no compromise when it comes to telling the truth and obeying laws--becomes aware that the three men in her life (surrogate father, lover, and partner) are surviving by violating the commandments to not lie and/or not kill.

 

Yes, if her guiding rule has been that people who lie to her are kicked out of her life (as it seems to have been), her entire support network has lied to her, and two of them about her sister's death. Everybody lies. Learning to forgive is something she's going to have to struggle with if she doesn't want to shut everyone out of her life. 

 

I hope that after reflection she realizes that she might have made the same choices as Hank and Jack did. A thirteen-year-old kid isn't responsible for a death just because his brother's story doesn't add up and he came home with dirt on his pants. Once his brother had been caught, and wasn't going to be violating anyone every again, I can understand a much younger Jack stuffing everything else back in and trying to forget.

 

After Eleanor's supremely creepy story, it looked like [Ray's] brain cells were starting to rev up.

 

I thought so, too. 

Eleanor to Ray: Do you want to be a pet? 

Ray: Not on the to-do list. 

 

I think he finally got a glimpse of how dangerous Eleanor was. 

 

My speculation on how Fausto got involved in Eleanor's story is that she got caught up in his net of snatching up young women, but something struck him about her. Maybe that she was already so damaged her reaction to being kidnapped was very different from that of the other young women? 

 

It's interesting to me that [Fausto's] ballcap is scrunched just right so that it makes him look just like any other working stiff, yet he can order wholesale murder at any point.

 

He (wealthy drug lord) and Cesar (farmhand) dress a lot alike. Not at all like Fausto's partner the corporate CEO. And now that the prosecutor is dead (which was sad, because I was hoping he would make it farther in the show), I will not have to stop and think, "Is that narrow-faced guy with glasses the prosecutor or the CEO?"

Edited August 21, 2014 by Kris117

[Cardie]

Although they have played down the Asperger's angle this season, people with that condition have a hard time processing anything that isn't literally factual. Sometimes they get puzzled by a metaphor or reject any literature based on any sort of non-empirical premises. Part of Sonya's distaste for liars, therefore, comes not from her moral sense so much as her need for things presented to her as facts to *be* facts.

[MDKNIGHT]

If it was done with fire, I don't think there would have been much of anything to feed that poor dog with.

 

As to the fire I meant as a method of making him look inhuman not of castration.  What little we saw of him his hands looked like talons not fingers leading to jokes about it being Eleanore's pet Chupacabra.  I was theorizing that you could make human fingers look inhuman with fire.  We haven't seen his face but if it doesn't look normal he may have been made to look like Freddy Kruger.  You know Fausto is interesting because he has his civilized side but he also has this side that talks about cutting off eyelids and peeling the skin off the face etc. 

 

Is there some bylaw in the tv writer's contract that says they HAVE to kill off half of the lesbian couple?  I mean I have a hard time thinking of a show that DIDN'T do it.  I can name a hundred that did, starting with Buffy the Vampire slayer the most famous, to Tierra De Lobos which is a bit more obscure.  Come on show.  Don't do the most obvious thing. 

[Blakeston]

That seems completely natural to me. Nobody asks to be raped and murdered (I'm not saying this is what you mean, of course), but I would think the family would still want to know why their daughter was a victim. Why wasn't it someone else (as awful as that sounds)?

 

I can understand her being curious as to why Dobbs chose her sister. What I find odd is that she's so much more hung up on that than, say, why Dobbs wanted to rape and murder anyone at all. Or if her sister said or did anything significant in her final moments. Or if Dobbs felt any remorse afterward. 

 

Maybe she means "why did he choose her" in the sense of, "Why did he choose Lisa and not me?" (As in, a survivor's guilt issue.) Or, "how could he do that to the most wonderful person in the world?"

 

It's hard to say. They haven't made it very clear.

[Bort]

Maybe she means "why did he choose her" in the sense of, "Why did he choose Lisa and not me?" (As in, a survivor's guilt issue.)

 

Now I'm wondering if Sonya's so hung up on it because Lisa was somewhere Sonya was supposed to be.  For example, maybe it was Sonya's turn to do laundry but she blew it off and Lisa was at the laundromat instead and got snatched.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Is there some bylaw in the tv writer's contract that says they HAVE to kill off half of the lesbian couple? I mean I have a hard time thinking of a show that DIDN'T do it. I can name a hundred that did, starting with Buffy the Vampire slayer the most famous, to Tierra De Lobos which is a bit more obscure. Come on show. Don't do the most obvious thing.

Pretty Little Liars keeps killing off lesbian girlfriends too (first Maya and most recently Shana). Why can't the lesbians be happy couples? I had a bad feeling about Ana's girlfriend because she was suddenly getting so much screen time. The optimistic part of me hoped that we were just getting to see more of her life outside of work and Daniel, but the cynical side of me that's watched tv before thought oh crap, they are letting me see her so they can kill her off!

Now I'm wondering if Sonya's so hung up on it because Lisa was somewhere Sonya was supposed to be. For example, maybe it was Sonya's turn to do laundry but she blew it off and Lisa was at the laundromat instead and got snatched.

Or maybe Sonya was supposed to be with her at the time/place she was taken? Edited August 22, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[shapeshifter]

Now I'm wondering if Sonya's so hung up on it because Lisa was somewhere Sonya was supposed to be.  For example, maybe it was Sonya's turn to do laundry but she blew it off and Lisa was at the laundromat instead and got snatched.

Possibly, but survivor's guilt doesn't require that kind of circumstance.

[Haleth]

I'm going to take up knitting. Just in case.

[Johnny Dollar]

Sonya is quickly becoming the most boring and useless character on this show. And her naïveté in dealing with people and her inability to make rational decisions makes me wonder why and how she ever became a cop.

[Catherinewriter]

God, I hate Robles, even more than Fausto, who, it pains me to say, is a fascinating character. Die, Robles.

Run, Charlotte. I don't like your character, or your arc, but for heaven's sake get of there. She's rich, right, so she can go anywhere she wants to. Unless I'm missing something.

Poor Hank, Poor Marco, Poor Sonya. At least Hank got to do something this episode. One of my disappointments in this series is the lack of screen time for Ted Levine.

[Kris117]

I'm trying to figure out the significance of the title. According to Wikipedia, Lamia was one of those unfortunate humans who drew the attention of a jealous Greek god. The stories vary a good bit, but she is punished for her beauty by being turned into a creature who devours the young. Sometimes it's her young, sometimes it's the young of others. 

 

All the people who are incidental or direct casualties of the drug trade and the war on drugs could be said to have been consumed by it, I suppose. But why that title for this episode, when it seems to fit pretty much any other episode? 

[shapeshifter]

I'm trying to figure out the significance of the title. According to Wikipedia, Lamia was one of those unfortunate humans who drew the attention of a jealous Greek god. The stories vary a good bit, but she is punished for her beauty by being turned into a creature who devours the young. Sometimes it's her young, sometimes it's the young of others.

All the people who are incidental or direct casualties of the drug trade and the war on drugs could be said to have been consumed by it, I suppose. But why that title for this episode, when it seems to fit pretty much any other episode?

I've been puzzling over this too. I guess it Eleanor, and it's because she told her story in this episode. Edited August 23, 2014 by shapeshifter

[miles2go]

God, I hate Robles, even more than Fausto, who, it pains me to say, is a fascinating character. Die, Robles.

Run, Charlotte. I don't like your character, or your arc, but for heaven's sake get of there. She's rich, right, so she can go anywhere she wants to. Unless I'm missing something.

Poor Hank, Poor Marco, Poor Sonya. At least Hank got to do something this episode. One of my disappointments in this series is the lack of screen time for Ted Levine.

Charlotte isn't rich; her late husband left her the ranch, but no money.  Perhaps she should have sold the ranch and left town, but the tunnel lady (forget her name) probably wouldn't have let her.  I think you're right, though.  She need to get out of this mess pronto, and I don't think that arrogant DEA guy is really going to help her much.

[Bort]

God, I hate Robles, even more than Fausto, who, it pains me to say, is a fascinating character. Die, Robles.Run, Charlotte. I don't like your character, or your arc, but for heaven's sake get of there. She's rich, right, so she can go anywhere she wants to. Unless I'm missing something.

She's not. Charlotte inherited the ranch when her husband died but none of the money. That's how come she ended up embroiled in this drug mess in the first place, she needed money or would lose the ranch.

ETA: beaten to the punch...

Edited August 23, 2014 by kariyaki

[Catherinewriter]

Oh, thanks, posters, I had forgotten that she had no money. So, then, Poor Charlotte, along with Marco, Hank, and Sonya. Has the series been renewed for another season?

[Cardie]

In Keats's poem "Lamia" the title character is a serpent who is made to appear as a beautiful woman because she did Hermes a favor. A young man named Lycius falls in love with her. They go off together and live in seclusion because she's worried he'll find out she isn't really human. But when he decides they should marry, his tutor Apollonius crashes the wedding party and immediately sees Lamia for what she is. Under the tutor's scrutinizing gaze, Lamia vanishes and then Lycius dies.

I do think that Eleanor is the Lamia but am not sure how any of the Lamia legends apply to her circumstances one on one.

[Guest]

 I also don't get Sonya's question about 'why her sister'.  Isn't it nearly always the case, and a cop would know better than anyone, that raped/murdered girls are just in the wrong place at the wrong time, with a monster who had the opportunity?   

 

I also don't like Sonya's anger at Hank.  This is the cop who became her new parent and mentor from then on.  Show some respect.  Though I doubt Hank would actually kill the killer of a girl he didn't know because it broke the girl's sister's heart, too.  If he's supposed to be a Good Cop, he can't be cop, judge, jury and executioner (unless maybe the killer offed someone in his own family and he watched it happen).  

 

I thought Eleanor's story was meant to be creepy but was kind of silly, and Gish played it off well.  

 

The caged dad's fingers looked like the claws on the giant Ghost of a Flea tattoo on Eleanor's back.  

 

I figured Fausto's goodbye to Marco meant he planned to kill him, as well as Tate.  Maybe tying up loose ends before his run for Norway.

[AuntiePam]

  figured Fausto's goodbye to Marco meant he planned to kill him, as well as Tate.  Maybe tying up loose ends before his run for Norway.

I think Fausto respects Marco.  I can see Fausto taking out Robles and hoping that would be enough to appease Marco.  "Here!  Take this crime boss and I'll get out of your hair." 

 

Fausto is connected to Robles but is Fausto connected to the raped and murdered women? 

[Cardie]

The only connections we've seen to raped and murdered women are the police but because Fausto is so hand and glove with the police, it's hard to know what connection he has to these women. It seems like Juarez is more a city full of abductor/rapists than that there is some organized crime entity behind all the disappearances.

[Zaffy]

 I also don't get Sonya's question about 'why her sister'.  Isn't it nearly always the case, and a cop would know better than anyone, that raped/murdered girls are just in the wrong place at the wrong time, with a monster who had the opportunity?   

 

I also don't like Sonya's anger at Hank.  This is the cop who became her new parent and mentor from then on.  Show some respect.  Though I doubt Hank would actually kill the killer of a girl he didn't know because it broke the girl's sister's heart, too.  If he's supposed to be a Good Cop, he can't be cop, judge, jury and executioner (unless maybe the killer offed someone in his own family and he watched it happen).  

A death in the family is always traumatizing even if the dead is a very old person and you are a very balanced and mature adult.

Now think about a murder and being 15yo, and having to go and identify your brutally murdered sister in the morgue while your junkie mother is absent. On top of that you are also in the spectrum. I doubt many ppl would grow up and have a relatively normal life like Sonya does.

She has been traumatized deeply  by all this and this is how she responded to the   death of the only family member she could rely on.  

What we see as an unhealthy attachment to the killer and then to his brother was her mechanism to cope. Same her agony for seeking answers.

I really  don't understand why people can't see that and complain about Sonya's behavior.  

Hank is the only support system Sonya has (and Marco I guess but he came later in her life).

Hank has been her surrogate father and her role model.

And now she learns he has been lying to her  the whole time.

Plus, he committed a crime, he tried to kill in cold blood a person. In an organized/civilized society, cops are nether executioners nor judges. 

Apart from hurting her personally by disabling the person she thought she could find answers from, also Hank ruined his role model image and her perception of the law and order.

And most of all, he lied to her.

Lets not forget, Sonya has Aspergers and   life is more black and white for her.

I expected Sonya to explode and have a breakdown or something. For me it is weird that she reacted so calmly. 

[Black Knight]

I thought it was pretty funny that Eleanor wanted to speak to Charlotte alone. Looks like she twigged immediately that Charlotte's the one who actually has a couple of brain cells to rub together.

 

I really wish Kruger hadn't toned down the Asperger's so much in her portrayal this season. I think that hurts a lot because in terms of the writing, Sonya still thinks and behaves according to her syndrome, but Kruger's acting presents Sonya pretty much as a non-Asperger's now. So there's this disconnect which means viewers end up having a hard time understanding Sonya because it's not really top of mind anymore that she's someone with Asperger's.

[shapeshifter]

I thought it was pretty funny that Eleanor wanted to speak to Charlotte alone. Looks like she twigged immediately that Charlotte's the one who actually has a couple of brain cells to rub together....

Yes, but Eleanor is so crafty smart and calculating, and so economical with her speech, that I wonder if it was also a test to see if Charlotte really wanted that big lummox around or not.

 

I really wish Kruger hadn't toned down the Asperger's so much in her portrayal this season. I think that hurts a lot because in terms of the writing, Sonya still thinks and behaves according to her syndrome, but Kruger's acting presents Sonya pretty much as a non-Asperger's now. So there's this disconnect which means viewers end up having a hard time understanding Sonya because it's not really top of mind anymore that she's someone with Asperger's.

Thank you for putting this into words. To me, this is the only thing wrong with this season.

[lulee]

I thought it was pretty funny that Eleanor wanted to speak to Charlotte alone. Looks like she twigged immediately that Charlotte's the one who actually has a couple of brain cells to rub together.

 

I really wish Kruger hadn't toned down the Asperger's so much in her portrayal this season. I think that hurts a lot because in terms of the writing, Sonya still thinks and behaves according to her syndrome, but Kruger's acting presents Sonya pretty much as a non-Asperger's now. So there's this disconnect which means viewers end up having a hard time understanding Sonya because it's not really top of mind anymore that she's someone with Asperger's.

I agree. The portrayal has gone from someone known to be on the spectrum to someone kind of intense and irritable.

[Dowel Jones]

...tattoo on Eleanor's back.

 

One wonders about the fate of the tattoo artist.  Perhaps it was early enough in her life that she hadn't yet developed the personality as shown in her scenes.

[Neurochick]

I know nothing about Asperger's.

 

IMO, for Sonya to function, she had to live in a very structured world, with very defined rules.  She's a brilliant detective, she can think outside the box but in order for her to function, she has to live by certain rules.  For her dishonesty is a serious problem.  What happened with Marco in the hotel room freaked her out; for one thing, she fired her gun in Juarez (which goes against the rules) and then Marco killed two men in cold blood, which is also something a person isn't supposed to do.  Hank lied to her, which really upset her.  Sonya doesn't get that sometimes people have to lie to keep others safe.  To Sonya, if someone lies to her about something, she thinks, "how do I know when you're telling me the truth?"  

 

In a strange way, Eleanor and Sonya are kind of alike.  Both women suffered serious traumas, both women were probably very vulnerable.  Eleanor met Fausto, while Sonya met Hank.  Sonya became a cop because of Hank, while Eleanor became a criminal because of Fausto.  Both of them were influenced by father figures.   

[shapeshifter]

...Eleanor and Sonya are kind of alike.  Both women suffered serious traumas, both women were probably very vulnerable.  Eleanor met Fausto, while Sonya met Hank.  Sonya became a cop because of Hank, while Eleanor became a criminal because of Fausto.  Both of them were influenced by father figures.

Excellently stated, Neurochick. Also, both have personality disorders--presumably Sonya was born with hers, but Eleanor's was acquired, nevertheless, if Sonya inherited Aspergers, and if Eleanor became a sociopath because of her father's abuse, both have mental illness because of their families--possibly because of their fathers, because Aspergers is more common among males.

[Neurochick]

Excellently stated, Neurochick. Also, both have personality disorders--presumably Sonya was born with hers, but Eleanor's was acquired, nevertheless, if Sonya inherited Aspergers, and if Eleanor became a sociopath because of her father's abuse, both have mental illness because of their families--possibly because of their fathers, because Aspergers is more common among males.

 

Although I understand why, sometimes I have some problems labeling things as "disorders" or "mental illness."  I wonder if these disorders are coping mechanisms for the environment the person is in, in Eleanor's case that could be true.  Eleanor could have met a non-criminal man and ended up as an advocate for abused children.  Same person, different direction.  

[SunnyBeBe]

I agree that Sonja has become the least interesting character on the show.  The actor's talent is also far below the other actors in the casts.  IMO, a shortening of Sonja's scenes would be welcomed. I think the writers have dropped the ball on portraying a character with Asperger's.  Her being upset with Hank was just so wrong on so many levels. The portrayal of Asperger's has just been hit or miss.  But, with Sonja....it's not even worth criticizing her.  There are so many other great things to discuss about the show this season.  It's the best season yet, IMO!

 

When Daniel and Adriana discovered the informant who gave them info had been murdered, you would think they would have gotten a little more scared and careful.  Acting so cavalier is dangerous.  Is Daniel just passed getting scared anymore?  What part of "dead reporter" do they not get?  Did the killer come to the apartment to kill Adriana or did the killer know it was her girlfriend he was stabbing?  Why kill girlfriend when they could have just as easily killed Adriana? 

 

If Eleanor is outraged by the sexual abuse of young girls, then why not go after the police force who is abducting and abusing young girls?

 

For some reason I just can't help but root for Charlotte.  I hope that somehow she survives.

[dubbel zout]

Did the killer come to the apartment to kill Adriana or did the killer know it was her girlfriend he was stabbing?  Why kill girlfriend when they could have just as easily killed Adriana?

I think the killer was after Adriana. I'm not sure if he knew what she looked like. But once the girlfriend saw him, she had to be killed. Killing Adriana's girlfriend is a pretty big sign that Adriana needs to stop investigating, so Eleanor makes her point either way, I think.

 

I liked that they showed her fighting back. She didn't just scream and flop around as often is shown.

[Neurochick]

If Eleanor is outraged by the sexual abuse of young girls, then why not go after the police force who is abducting and abusing young girls?

 

 

I don't think Eleanor has really dealt with her own abuse.  When she was telling Charlotte and Ray her story, she acted as if it had happened to someone else.  I really think that's how Eleanor sees it, it happened to another person, not her.

 

I do think Eleanor has a soft spot for children.  The reason she didn't kill the teen's friend was because she realized he was just a little boy.  And she herself was a little girl when she lost her innocence.  

[Zaffy]

 I really wish Kruger hadn't toned down the Asperger's so much in her portrayal this season. I think that hurts a lot because in terms of the writing, Sonya still thinks and behaves according to her syndrome, but Kruger's acting presents Sonya pretty much as a non-Asperger's now. So there's this disconnect which means viewers end up having a hard time understanding Sonya because it's not really top of mind anymore that she's someone with Asperger's.

I have the feeling it was not Kruger's decision only, I mean judging from the character this season, it is mainly the writing.

It was like they  didnt support 1st's season's Sonya because they got afraid they gonna lose audience (or not gain any).

For me it is obvious in every American adaptation of Nordic Noir I've seen, both in the Killing and in The Bridge, creators don't believe the audience is "smart" enough or "ready" enough to accept characters like Sonya or Sarah Lund (Forbrydelsen). 

I don't think the portrayal is bad or the acting, I still get the glimpses of Aspergers, mostly cause I know it is there, but they truth is they DID bastardized Sonya's character a bit.

Which is a pity really, they ruined a part of the chemistry Marco and Sonya had. Who needs another procedural with just a traumatized cop?

Personally, I was more annoyed by the sudden attack of Kruger's nude scenes, especially since they hadnt shown any nudity in season 1.

I found them as unnecessary as the useless relationship with the killer's bro, if not more. 

Do they want the audience of GOT? The audience of Twin Peaks? The audience of Breaking Bad? Be unique?

I see a confusion there, that's the main problem Bridge has IMHO.

Maybe if they get a 3rd season to finally nail it.

P.S.

Btw, Bron/Bron also frakked up Saga's character in their second season. I guess it is difficult to write for such a character, and the writers are probably afraid how the audience will respond. In their credit, Bron's team admitted they should write Saga's stories better. We shall see in season 3.

[Guest]

I agree, the writing seems to be laying off the Aspergers angle.  I'm ok with it.  I didn't think it was any hallmark of season 1.  We've seen it done over and over in tv already and eventually it's not interesting, it's just an annoyance.  Remember Bones' mantra, "I don't know what that means", about a hundred different pop culture references in the early seasons?  

 

Sonya's actions with Jack really seemed to have more social awareness than S1 Sonya had.  I think S1 Sonya would've told him to leave when she had to go to work, or sat there and waited rather than leave him alone in her house.  And I don't see that Sonya handing out keys.  Though "I'm not your girlfriend" was more in character.  

[Mars477]

I don't know about Saga, but I think I prefer how The Tunnel treated Elise's dead (nonmurdered) sister to how this show treats Sonya's.  There's less room for plot (although I'm not all that fond the dead sister plot or how the bulk of Sonya's personal journey this season has centered around her sex buddy, to the detriment of the other relationships around her) but more room for character, especially in Elise's memory palace.

[Zaffy]

I don't know about Saga, but I think I prefer how The Tunnel treated Elise's dead (nonmurdered) sister to how this show treats Sonya's.  There's less room for plot (although I'm not all that fond the dead sister plot or how the bulk of Sonya's personal journey this season has centered around her sex buddy, to the detriment of the other relationships around her) but more room for character, especially in Elise's memory palace.

Saga's sister wanst murdered as well.

She is not in the spectrum, its  just her character. But she is really hardcore (robotic, socially awkward , you name it), Sonya is relatively normal in comparison. 

However in season 2

they mess her up with adding more stupid  drama to her sister's past and Saga's backstory. They also give her a boyfriend, which is so badly written it makes Jack Dobbs being a compelling character. Very hit and miss. Almost ruined 2nd season for me.

But despite their misses, the creators of the original where constant with her character.

In Bridge, Sonya seems to loose and find back her Aspergers between scenes !

 

[Kris117]

She has been traumatized deeply  by all this and this is how she responded to the death of the only family member she could rely on.  

What we see as an unhealthy attachment to the killer and then to his brother was her mechanism to cope. Same her agony for seeking answers.

That's pretty close to how I see it. Sonja only partly dealt with her sister's death when it happened—aside from being only fifteen, I'm assuming she was much less comfortable with the outside world then. She fixated right away on her sister's killer, and has done so for years. I think she always hoped he'd explain why he picked her sister at some point, so when he died, all that was over, and she had to deal with all the feelings she had put off.

Hank is the closest thing to a father figure she had. At the start of last season, some of her interactions at work with Hank (when she was unhappy with the assignments she was getting, for example) had more of a father-daughter tone than a employee-boss tone. Given her Aspergers, which makes it harder for her to see and adjust to nuances in character, Hank was Good, but now he's lied to her. She doesn't know how to think of him now, and it turns her world upside down.

Had she known that Hank shot the killer without provocation back when it actually happened, it might not have been the problem for her that it is now, since the lie has lasted for years.

[JodhaBai]

Sonya is quickly becoming the most boring and useless character on this show. And her naïveté in dealing with people and her inability to make rational decisions makes me wonder why and how she ever became a cop.

I also think the fact that the character is shown to barely have aspergers now is ridiculous.