S06.E11: Breaking Bad

[ShadowFacts]

14 hours ago, Ottis said:

Then this ep featured a really obvious couple of anvils ("polish that spot on the floor") and a tedious run up to ... a phone call at an abandoned gas station. That was the most interesting part of the ep.

Carol Burnett's character is intriguing.

Speaking of anvils, one just hit me a little late. Francesca asks Jimmy in the phone booth words to the effect of don't you have internet there? And Marion just discovered the internet. Something will come of that. I feel like she may be a bit more wily than Gene realizes.

[SimplexFish]

Personally the last thing I want from G&G, after 7 years and 6 seasons, is an 89 year old Carol Burnett in a wheelchair popping up in the last few episodes being the one to take down Saul. 

[SunnyBeBe]

31 minutes ago, SimplexFish said:

Personally the last thing I want from G&G, after 7 years and 6 seasons, is an 89 year old Carol Burnett in a wheelchair popping up in the last few episodes being the one to take down Saul. 

She can be pretty brutal.  I’ve seen her on Law & Order.  Lol

[paigow]

40 minutes ago, SimplexFish said:

Personally the last thing I want from G&G, after 7 years and 6 seasons, is an 89 year old Carol Burnett in a wheelchair popping up in the last few episodes being the one to take down Saul. 

He has outlived most of his key antagonists... so something he never saw coming would be likely to defeat him...

[PeterPirate]

Carol Burnett may end up being the vehicle by which Gene is brought down, but she will not have been the architect behind it.  Gene chose to continue to work with Jeff, and Gene made noise outside her home after Buddy wouldn't complete the scam on Cancer Guy.  

[Dev F]

1 hour ago, SimplexFish said:

Personally the last thing I want from G&G, after 7 years and 6 seasons, is an 89 year old Carol Burnett in a wheelchair popping up in the last few episodes being the one to take down Saul. 

It'd be a classic noir twist, though, if after all the grievous crimes Gene has been involved in, he's brought down by his relatively minor offense of exploiting his magic touch with the elderly. It's Irene Landry's revenge.

[SunnyBeBe]

6 minutes ago, Dev F said:

It'd be a classic noir twist, though, if after all the grievous crimes Gene has been involved in, he's brought down by his relatively minor offense of exploiting his magic touch with the elderly. It's Irene Landry's revenge.

Good points.  I’m thinking of a means seen with other befallen characters…….taking details to Speculation thread.  

[scenario]

As good as Jimmy is at manipulating people is, he is terrible at picking the people he relies the most on emotionally. He loved and idolized his brother who hated him and thought he was a good for nothing criminal. He loved Kim with all his heart and she was the absolute worst woman in the world he could choose. His best friend as a kid was a criminal. 

He's been in hiding for months and hasn't made a friend. He's friendly with his workers but not friends. He manipulates the guards but they aren't his friend. He manipulates all his victims but they aren't friends. He manipulates Buddy and Jeff but they aren't his friends. 

Carol Burnett's character is the only people who he's gotten the least bit close to. She's his only thing close to a friend he's got now. It would make sense that he'd be brought down by a friend since he has a habit of choosing bad one's his whole life.

[PeterPirate]

12 minutes ago, Dev F said:

It's Irene Landry's revenge.

OK, I was going to say that.  But I, uh, forgot.

[qtpye]

14 minutes ago, Dev F said:

It'd be a classic noir twist, though, if after all the grievous crimes Gene has been involved in, he's brought down by his relatively minor offense of exploiting his magic touch with the elderly. It's Irene Landry's revenge.

I have to say that I did not think of that.

Even though it was a pleasure to see Jimmy work with the elderly, it was also annoying to observe how infantile they were sometimes portrayed.

Irene had friends and what seems like a pretty nice life. Why would she be so taken with Jimmy beyond that he can be pretty charming?

It would fit nicely with the narrative if Jimmy was taken down by an elderly woman whose savvy he grossly underestimated.

[Ellaria]

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

Carol Burnett may end up being the vehicle by which Gene is brought down, but she will not have been the architect behind it.  Gene chose to continue to work with Jeff…

Well said. Ultimately, Gene is bringing himself down.  He engaged Jeff in “victimless” crime to shut him up. After telling him that their scam was over, he went back for more, seemingly in response to that phone call to the sprinkler company. However, this time it’s different - calculating, cruel and relentless.

47 minutes ago, Dev F said:

It'd be a classic noir twist, though, if after all the grievous crimes Gene has been involved in, he's brought down by his relatively minor offense of exploiting his magic touch with the elderly. It's Irene Landry's revenge.

29 minutes ago, qtpye said:

It would fit nicely with the narrative if Jimmy was taken down by an elderly woman whose savvy he grossly underestimated.

I think it’s perfect that an elderly woman will be the vehicle to his downfall. His story will come full circle, starting from his time as an elder law attorney. 

[peeayebee]

50 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

OK, I was going to say that.  But I, uh, forgot.

There there. 

It does seem perfect that the elderly Marion will be the one to take him down, or at least be instrumental in his downfall. And yet I hope something more unexpected will happen.

[SimplexFish]

1 hour ago, scenario said:

Carol Burnett's character is the only people who he's gotten the least bit close to. She's his only thing close to a friend he's got now. It would make sense that he'd be brought down by a friend since he has a habit of choosing bad one's his whole life.

To me...she is also not a friend or has he gotten close to her, that was all manipulation and fake kindness just to get to Jeff...twice.

Come to think of it I do not recall Jimmy/Saul ever having a friend through out the series except for Kim

[peeayebee]

Yeah, he definitely "made friends" with her to get to Jeff. Of course last visit was so he could make his scam proposal to him. At first I thought it was nice of Gene to show Marion how to search for cat videos, but he just wanted to stay in her good graces and also needed to pass the time until Jeff got home. 

I liked Courtney's observation that when Marion sees Gene outside the garage, she hears  him say to keep that dog (Buddy's) quiet, which must be suspicious to her since he portrayed himself as a dog lover.

[scenario]

26 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Yeah, he definitely "made friends" with her to get to Jeff. Of course last visit was so he could make his scam proposal to him. At first I thought it was nice of Gene to show Marion how to search for cat videos, but he just wanted to stay in her good graces and also needed to pass the time until Jeff got home. 

I liked Courtney's observation that when Marion sees Gene outside the garage, she hears  him say to keep that dog (Buddy's) quiet, which must be suspicious to her since he portrayed himself as a dog lover.

He's not close to her but he's closer to her than he is anyone else. As depressing as it is, she's as close to a friend that Gene has. 

He thinks he's got her number. He's underestimating her. 

Jimmy or Saul would never do this but Gene has nothing to live for and he's gotten sloppy. 

37 minutes ago, SimplexFish said:

To me...she is also not a friend or has he gotten close to her, that was all manipulation and fake kindness just to get to Jeff...twice.

Come to think of it I do not recall Jimmy/Saul ever having a friend through out the series except for Kim

What about his childhood partner in crime whose name I've forgotten. 

[peeayebee]

Marco? Yeah, they were friends.

I wonder if Marion has friends. Often on TV shows friends are just not shown, but it doesn't mean the character doesn't have friends. Maybe we're meant to see Marion as curmudgeonly. In the grocery store she rather rudely refuses the help of the other customer. She's somewhat friendly with the butcher, though she throws in a little criticism re his giving her too much last time. She refuses Gene's help, but she's actually not rude, just plain speaking. 

Maybe Jeff bought her a computer because she doesn't get out much, except to go to the store. And now she's spending her time watching cat videos. There's not even any mention of card games or coffee with the girls, or anything thing of that sort. 

She likes her independence and probably doesn't suffer fools gladly. 

[sistermagpie]

29 minutes ago, scenario said:

He's not close to her but he's closer to her than he is anyone else. As depressing as it is, she's as close to a friend that Gene has. 

I wonder if Marion will mistakenly think Jeffy is the one leading Gene down the wrong path. And if JImmy's attitude with the old folks (like with Irene) will come into play emotionally for him with her.

[Eulipian 5k]

On 8/2/2022 at 2:10 PM, scenario said:

He is scamming to get a client to make money to survive on partly because Chuck not only refused to help him

On 8/2/2022 at 2:17 PM, LiterateDog said:

Jimmy wants to be good, he certainly tries, but fails. He can *be* good, but he has to have something pushing (or pulling) him in that direction.

Self-Esteem isn't just your POS car, Jimmy. Nobody else can make you who you want to be.

[scenario]

4 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Self-Esteem isn't just your POS car, Jimmy. Nobody else can make you who you want to be.

Self-Esteem isn't helped when your own brother who you idolized calls you a POS to your face. The only thing that's gained him self-esteem in his whole life is the scam. He tried to go his brothers path and be a lawyer and was told he was a monkey with a machine gun. 

Jimmy wanted to be a respected lawyer. His own inclinations AND everyone around him pushed him to be a sleezeball lawyer. Ultimately its his own damn fault he is where he is but it didn't help that no one around him helped him to break good in his entire life. 

He couldn't be what Chuck was. He didn't have the talent or inclination for it. But he could have had a nice quiet practice in elder law with a lot of help and direction. He'd always have the urge to scam but he could have kept it in check if Kim didn't have exactly the same urge.  

[peeayebee]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

I wonder if Marion will mistakenly think Jeffy is the one leading Gene down the wrong path.

I don't think so. It seemed clear that Gene was the one in charge when they went to the garage, as well as earlier in the ep when he said he and Jeff would take their schnapps to go. I think Marion will have recognized that Gene is the leader.

Quote

And if JImmy's attitude with the old folks (like with Irene) will come into play emotionally for him with her.

I wonder. I can see it going either way. He could be just brutal with her -- That'll be horrible to watch.

[scenario]

11 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I don't think so. It seemed clear that Gene was the one in charge when they went to the garage, as well as earlier in the ep when he said he and Jeff would take their schnapps to go. I think Marion will have recognized that Gene is the leader.

I wonder. I can see it going either way. He could be just brutal with her -- That'll be horrible to watch.

But the writers have to destroy the last bit of good in Jimmy before the end. The show is a classic tragedy and it can't end with puppies and unicorns. 

They don't have enough time to save Gene. Kim realized the error of her ways and has a chance for redemption but Saul is doomed. 

[sistermagpie]

14 minutes ago, scenario said:

But the writers have to destroy the last bit of good in Jimmy before the end. The show is a classic tragedy and it can't end with puppies and unicorns. 

They don't have enough time to save Gene. Kim realized the error of her ways and has a chance for redemption but Saul is doomed. 

I think Walt got a pretty happy ending (a lot of people didn't like it for that reason), despite it obviously not being puppies or unicorns. For Jimmy there's probably a couple of ways it could go even as a tragedy.

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, scenario said:

Self-Esteem isn't helped when your own brother who you idolized calls you a POS to your face. The only thing that's gained him self-esteem in his whole life is the scam. He tried to go his brothers path and be a lawyer and was told he was a monkey with a machine gun. 

Jimmy wanted to be a respected lawyer. His own inclinations AND everyone around him pushed him to be a sleezeball lawyer. Ultimately its his own damn fault he is where he is but it didn't help that no one around him helped him to break good in his entire life. 

He couldn't be what Chuck was. He didn't have the talent or inclination for it. But he could have had a nice quiet practice in elder law with a lot of help and direction. He'd always have the urge to scam but he could have kept it in check if Kim didn't have exactly the same urge.  

I think Jimmy certainly feels this way.

Jimmy was lucky to have two loving but naïve parents.

Chuck might have been a pill but how many of us have brothers that can get us out of defecating through a sunroof on children?

In all honesty, it seemed like Kim had a much harder life.

What I am saying, is that we all go through crap but it is not a justification for us to "Break Bad".

Or perhaps Jimmy never felt like he had the right support to "Break Good".

[scenario]

1 minute ago, qtpye said:

I think Jimmy certainly feels this way.

Jimmy was lucky to have two loving but naïve parents.

Chuck might have been a pill but how many of us have brothers that can get us out of defecating through a sunroof on children?

In all honesty, it seemed like Kim had a much harder life.

What I am saying, is that we all go through crap but it is not a justification for us to "Break Bad".

Or perhaps Jimmy never felt like he had the right support to "Break Good".

I don't believe in the "Self Made Man." Everyone is a product of both their own inclinations and their environment.

Jimmy's inclinations pushed him towards a life of crime. Good intentions won't change that. His parent's loved him but did nothing to steer him away from the path he's on. Everyone else in his life either didn't really care or pushed him towards the bad path.

There's a justification and there's an explanation.  There is a difference. Jimmy is 100 percent responsible for the path he's on. But, when the environment pushes you toward that path, its not easy to change.

We only have a glimpse of Kim's environment. Her mother pushed her towards the bad path but we don't know anything else about her life. We do know she was a bit of a goody two shoes when younger so something was pushing her towards a good path. So there may have been a good influence in her life as well as a bad. We'll probably never know. 

The problem with the Self Made Man meme is that when everyone is 100% responsible for their actions and nothing else matters, there's no incentive to change. Person A's parents are multimillionaires and he went to the best school and an ivy league college and got millions from his parents to fund his start up. Person B grew up in the slums with a single parent who worked 4 part time jobs to make ends meet and he rarely saw her. And he can barely read and write because the school he went to is so bad. And all the successful people he's met are criminals. 

Then the logic goes. "Why should Person A do anything to help Person B? No one helped person A. They did it all themselves without any help from anyone else.  Person B's got no one but themselves to blame."

[Cinnabon]

3 minutes ago, scenario said:

I don't believe in the "Self Made Man." Everyone is a product of both their own inclinations and their environment.

Jimmy's inclinations pushed him towards a life of crime. Good intentions won't change that. His parent's loved him but did nothing to steer him away from the path he's on. Everyone else in his life either didn't really care or pushed him towards the bad path.

There's a justification and there's an explanation.  There is a difference. Jimmy is 100 percent responsible for the path he's on. But, when the environment pushes you toward that path, its not easy to change.

We only have a glimpse of Kim's environment. Her mother pushed her towards the bad path but we don't know anything else about her life. We do know she was a bit of a goody two shoes when younger so something was pushing her towards a good path. So there may have been a good influence in her life as well as a bad. We'll probably never know. 

The problem with the Self Made Man meme is that when everyone is 100% responsible for their actions and nothing else matters, there's no incentive to change. Person A's parents are multimillionaires and he went to the best school and an ivy league college and got millions from his parents to fund his start up. Person B grew up in the slums with a single parent who worked 4 part time jobs to make ends meet and he rarely saw her. And he can barely read and write because the school he went to is so bad. And all the successful people he's met are criminals. 

Then the logic goes. "Why should Person A do anything to help Person B? No one helped person A. They did it all themselves without any help from anyone else.  Person B's got no one but themselves to blame."

Great post. Exactly right that “pulling yourself up by your bootstraps” is a myth. Some people are born without boots.

[qtpye]

18 minutes ago, scenario said:

I don't believe in the "Self Made Man." Everyone is a product of both their own inclinations and their environment.

Jimmy's inclinations pushed him towards a life of crime. Good intentions won't change that. His parent's loved him but did nothing to steer him away from the path he's on. Everyone else in his life either didn't really care or pushed him towards the bad path.

There's a justification and there's an explanation.  There is a difference. Jimmy is 100 percent responsible for the path he's on. But, when the environment pushes you toward that path, its not easy to change.

We only have a glimpse of Kim's environment. Her mother pushed her towards the bad path but we don't know anything else about her life. We do know she was a bit of a goody two shoes when younger so something was pushing her towards a good path. So there may have been a good influence in her life as well as a bad. We'll probably never know. 

The problem with the Self Made Man meme is that when everyone is 100% responsible for their actions and nothing else matters, there's no incentive to change. Person A's parents are multimillionaires and he went to the best school and an ivy league college and got millions from his parents to fund his start up. Person B grew up in the slums with a single parent who worked 4 part time jobs to make ends meet and he rarely saw her. And he can barely read and write because the school he went to is so bad. And all the successful people he's met are criminals. 

Then the logic goes. "Why should Person A do anything to help Person B? No one helped person A. They did it all themselves without any help from anyone else.  Person B's got no one but themselves to blame."

I think one of Jimmy's problems is that he "Breaks Good" for other people and not himself.

He wanted to be "good" for Chuck to respect him as a brother. That wound up devastating him.

He wanted to be "good" to be deserving of a woman like Kim, only for her to go more towards the life he wanted to leave behind.

In the end, he is alone in a job that he probably hates as Cinnabon Gene.

It is sad that he never held himself in enough regard to change his ways.

[scenario]

8 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I think one of Jimmy's problems is that he "Breaks Good" for other people and not himself.

He wanted to be "good" for Chuck to respect him as a brother. That wound up devastating him.

He wanted to be "good" to be deserving of a woman like Kim, only for her to go more towards the life he wanted to leave behind.

In the end, he is alone in a job that he probably hates as Cinnabon Gene.

It is sad that he never held himself in enough regard to change his ways.

People do what they believe is "good" because they've been taught that. The Salamanca's are all ruthless evil people. And they are all like that because they've been taught to behave like that since they were little. That's their version of "good". 

What's good and what's bad is decided by the people around you when you are little. The environment around Jimmy and Kim when they were little encouraged their behavior.

Jimmy is like a drug addict or an alcoholic. They know what they need to do but it is very difficult. Kim moving in was like two alcoholics moving in with each other and living in an environment soaked with alcohol. Temptation everywhere and everyone around him encouraging him to drink. Kim knew the only way she was going to get better was to move away from the temptation, twice. 

The idea that Jimmy is where he is because he didn't hold himself in enough regard to change is just blaming every addict who couldn't find the strength in themselves to change. 

There's a difference between sympathizing with Jimmy and excusing his awful behavior. Saul deserves a long, long prison sentence for all the damage he did to society. I find Jimmy's character interesting because even with all the temptations and roadblocks in his path, he still had a chance to change. He still wanted to change. That's why I find Lalo's character boring. He's a sociopath whose been taught since childhood to be evil. He has no realistic chance to change. 

[Cinnabon]

Addiction is a disease, not a moral failing. Jimmy doesn’t have a disease.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

13 minutes ago, scenario said:

People do what they believe is "good" because they've been taught that. The Salamanca's are all ruthless evil people. And they are all like that because they've been taught to behave like that since they were little. That's their version of "good". ...

Jimmy is like a drug addict or an alcoholic. They know what they need to do but it is very difficult. Kim moving in was like two alcoholics moving in with each other and living in an environment soaked with alcohol. Temptation everywhere and everyone around him encouraging him to drink. Kim knew the only way she was going to get better was to move away from the temptation, twice. 

Yup.  Days of Wine and Roses.

I can't imagine G&G going for an ambiguous ending.  Not after Sopranos.  Not after soooo much precision in moving this story along.

So, I can see sweet old lady Marion killing Gene, more likely in self-defense.  I can also see Gene killing her to silence her, thus consigning himself forever to Hell.  The question is if Tackovic's core survival instinct kicks in, driving his decision(s).

[scenario]

33 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Addiction is a disease, not a moral failing. Jimmy doesn’t have a disease.

Jimmy's behavior is not listed as an addiction but his behavior is a great deal like someone who does have one. There are a lot of things that aren't technically listed as addictions but some people behave as if they are. The sports fan that loses his job because the game is more important than his job. Or the religious fanatic whose religious beliefs are more important then their children. 

[scenario]

18 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Yup.  Days of Wine and Roses.

I can't imagine G&G going for an ambiguous ending.  Not after Sopranos.  Not after soooo much precision in moving this story along.

So, I can see sweet old lady Marion killing Gene, more likely in self-defense.  I can also see Gene killing her to silence her, thus consigning himself forever to Hell.  The question is if Tackovic's core survival instinct kicks in, driving his decision(s).

Whatever happens to Gene, it must be something which was set up before hand. It must flow naturally.  Marion killing Gene in self defense or defending her boy I can see. Marion is actually the last Salamanca that was never mentioned before would not be. 

[qtpye]

3 hours ago, scenario said:

I don't believe in the "Self Made Man." Everyone is a product of both their own inclinations and their environment.

Jimmy's inclinations pushed him towards a life of crime. Good intentions won't change that. His parent's loved him but did nothing to steer him away from the path he's on. Everyone else in his life either didn't really care or pushed him towards the bad path.

There's a justification and there's an explanation.  There is a difference. Jimmy is 100 percent responsible for the path he's on. But, when the environment pushes you toward that path, its not easy to change.

We only have a glimpse of Kim's environment. Her mother pushed her towards the bad path but we don't know anything else about her life. We do know she was a bit of a goody two shoes when younger so something was pushing her towards a good path. So there may have been a good influence in her life as well as a bad. We'll probably never know. 

The problem with the Self Made Man meme is that when everyone is 100% responsible for their actions and nothing else matters, there's no incentive to change. Person A's parents are multimillionaires and he went to the best school and an ivy league college and got millions from his parents to fund his start up. Person B grew up in the slums with a single parent who worked 4 part time jobs to make ends meet and he rarely saw her. And he can barely read and write because the school he went to is so bad. And all the successful people he's met are criminals. 

Then the logic goes. "Why should Person A do anything to help Person B? No one helped person A. They did it all themselves without any help from anyone else.  Person B's got no one but themselves to blame."

I think no one is discounting that environment plays a large part in your options in life and no one is suggesting that Jimmy pick himself up by his bootstraps:

1. He is a white male born into a loving middle-class family
2. He has connections that provide him with a job even after the Chicago Sunroof incident
3. He gets his law degree and expects to become a lawyer in his brother's prestigious law firm.
4. He works hard to change and stumbles upon the lucrative Sand Piper case
5. The Sand Piper case allows him a lucrative position with Davies and Main
6. He realizes he is not cut out for a prestigious law firm and leaves
7. He gets the Sand Piper settlement and becomes the biggest piece of shit lawyer you can imagine.

I truly do not how he dove even deeper into the criminal life after Howard's death.

He could have easily started a legitimate practice and had a good life with the Sandpiper settlement.

He actually had a chance to start over as Cinnabon Gene but he again chooses the crooked path.

Yes, his decisions are both the results of nature and nurture but as Chuck predicted, Jimmy just can't help himself.

He certainly has had more opportunities than many people of color, female, or those born into horrible poverty.

[monagatuna]

On 8/6/2022 at 8:43 AM, paigow said:

Sitcom spinoffs 

...

Glaa

Lalo believes that a teenage employee of Gus is a critical link in the supply chain. Lalo learns that said teenager failed to get a part in the high school musical. So when the kid posts a Craigslist ad looking for a singing coach, Lalo answers it, hoping to gather intel on Gus... But will Lalo learn a life lesson instead????

These were all great, but I lost it at "Glaa."

[PeterPirate]

Regarding the final ending, I am "OK" with the idea of Gene being caught and/or dying at the hands of the police.  But I would not consider it "satifsying".  

The central theme of all six seasons of this show has been the devotion Jimmy had for Kim.  In the first season he gave up the Kettleman's $1.6 million dollars so Kim would have her standing at HHM restored.  In this season they showed that it was Kim's leaving that buried his "good heart".  

I don't know if Kim has a core personality trait, but one important feature was her "I save me" mantra.  I don't know if running away to Florida and trying to put the past behind her qualifies as being "saved".  I guess it does if that means avoiding prison.  But it also means the part of her that idolized Atticus Finch will be lost.  I guess we'll see.  

So for me a satisfying ending will be one that incorporates these important features of the main characters.

Edited August 9, 2022 by PeterPirate

[Eulipian 5k]

On 8/2/2022 at 8:46 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Betamax may have been a misstep for Sony but they soon ruled the consumer electronics world. It was a relatively minor hiccup.

Put all your 2004 dollars in Walkman futures! Carrying music around on cassette tapes will never be obsoleted. That's church, yo.

[Eulipian 5k]

20 hours ago, scenario said:

He tried to go his brothers path and be a lawyer and was told he was a monkey with a machine gun. 

Exactly, not his own. Jimmy is a born salesman/PR guy. Why did he choose a profession where ethics are part of your license? Jimmy should remember his friend who said, "You don't save me, I save me". She's probably in a better place than Gene is now.

[Eulipian 5k]

On 8/3/2022 at 12:09 AM, Simon Boccanegra said:

I don't genuflect at every decision Gould and Gilligan make (nor did I with David Simon, Matthew Weiner, David Chase, Aaron Sorkin, et cetera), but I often like those scenes of detail work.

Process, and observing it's tedious build up, was Michael Mann's contribution to the crime/heist genre. Movies and television has never been the same.

[Eulipian 5k]

On 8/5/2022 at 10:31 AM, Simon Boccanegra said:

Charges of gaslighting would be thrown around a lot more. That term gets used a little too broadly these days, but some of Jimmy's actions with Chuck were the real deal.

Who's gaslighting who? Chuck's Doctor showed he was not affected by his electric bed. Chuck was actually living by the "gaslight" of his lantern. Chuck however, was able to make his career independent of his brother or parents; Jimmy "blames" Chuck and his Dad for who he became.

[scenario]

20 hours ago, qtpye said:

I think one of Jimmy's problems is that he "Breaks Good" for other people and not himself.

He wanted to be "good" for Chuck to respect him as a brother. That wound up devastating him.

He wanted to be "good" to be deserving of a woman like Kim, only for her to go more towards the life he wanted to leave behind.

In the end, he is alone in a job that he probably hates as Cinnabon Gene.

It is sad that he never held himself in enough regard to change his ways.

That voice on the inside of people telling them right from wrong was trained into you when you were too young to remember. 

No one breaks good for themselves. It's a combination of everything trained into you since you were little. People aren't born with a knowledge of what their society considers right and wrong, its trained into them when they are too small to object. People always want to please the group. Human's are a tribal species. Everyone wants to please the people around them. It's part of our nature. 

The problem with Jimmy, IMO, is that he got conflicting messages when he was little and turned to others to straighten it out. And he still got conflicting messages. 

[smartymarty]

Every time she appears on screen, I say "Don't. Kill. Carol. Burnett." They wouldn't, would they‽

[Lalo Lives]

On 8/8/2022 at 3:18 PM, qtpye said:

Chuck might have been a pill

Oh my God, I never heard anyone use this expression except my parents.

Not trying to make anyone feel old. I just thought it was a weird way of saying somebody was not being a good person. My folks weren’t big on swearing so they had other euphemisms. This was one.

I have since changed that family tradition. #*>€#@&&*%£!

[Cinnabon]

Just now, Lalo Lives said:

Oh my God, I never heard anyone use this expression except my parents.

Not trying to make anyone feel old. I just thought it was a weird way of saying somebody was not being a good person. My folks weren’t big on swearing so they had other euphemisms. This was one.

I have since changed that family tradition. #*>€#@&&*%£!

My parents used that expression too.

[Lalo Lives]

Well, as a not too bright kid, I had visions of a Bufferin tablet with arms and legs.

Real conversation—-

“Mom, Steve asked the teacher if fish have snot.”

”Well, he’s a pill, dear.”

[sistermagpie]

49 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

My parents used that expression too.

I still use it when appropriate. There's a certain type of person where only that word will do.

[Lalo Lives]

10 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I still use it when appropriate. There's a certain type of person where only that word will do.

Exactly.

[Anela]

Almost everyone else showed up from BB. Of course they were going to bring on Walt and Jesse.

this episode didn't have me hooked, either, after the bit with Francesca.