S08.E20: Negative, Part 2

[Trini]

With The Flash still reeling from everything that just happened, the rest of the team rallies to support him when he needs it the most.

Marcus Stokes directed the episode written by Eric Wallace.

Airdate: 6/29/2022

[Primal Slayer]

At this point....I find this show really boring and after 8 years....I just continue to watch because im used to it. 

I dont know how many times we can play this same game with Reverse Flash. This time they didnt choose love to save the day, they chose meditation.....guess that's a change? 

It was predictable in just about every way. 

[Frozendiva]

This ep was predictable and stupid. I enjoyed that the show's folks actually got some news footage of what was happening in town, got the red blob thing, actually had a crowd, but nothing - no real casualties and everything was reset.

Am curious who the new Frost is - like a Frostenstein creature?

Hope the show ends after next season. It's recycling itself, and I am losing interest.

I do expect that Thawne will rise like some sort of Phoenix and will show up again at some point - is it 2049?

[DanaK]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

At this point....I find this show really boring and after 8 years....I just continue to watch because im used to it. 

I dont know how many times we can play this same game with Reverse Flash. This time they didnt choose love to save the day, they chose meditation.....guess that's a change? 

It was predictable in just about every way. 

I really didn’t understand what Barry was doing with the meditation stuff. Was it allowing him, with the help of the positive speed force, to withstand the attacks from ReverseFlash or something else?

[Lantern7]

Legends of Tomorrow is gone, and we have this.

I don't think this season of The Flash was bad. It was just so meandering. So little to hold interest, plot lines skewed everywhere, Iris bouncing between the Phantom Zone and the Shadow Realm most of the season, Caitlin and the attempted revival of Frost, and on and on and on. I'll say it: I think a season of Legends filled mostly with Pregnant Sara antics and Ava only able to say the word "babe" would have been more bearable than the last few seasons of The Flash. And the future isn't looking so hot either.

Also: WHEN IS BARRY GOING TO KNOCK UP IRIS? It would be funny if that gets getting delayed, leading to more versions of Iris and Bart. It'd be like Eobard coming back over and ov- . . . I take it back. I take it all back.

No more Personified Forces. And no more super-powered Cecile. Nice character, but the powers thing is screwing her up.

If next season is the last, PLEASE let it be good. Fuck it, turn Barry into the Spectre, then have him and Iris room with Ollie and Felicity in paradise or whatever.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Lantern7

[Trini]

I don't even know how to critique this episode - nothing made sense, despite all the ridiculous exposition. So many people suddenly having abilities never seen before, just because. Things happening just because.

Barry didn't even save Iris! She had to save herself; but yet Cecile The All-Powerful was The One to bring back the Forces, even though Barry & Iris created them.

Everything with Cecile feels like the writers room trolling at this point.

Was the 'surprise cameo' supposed to be Darkh? Maybe it's because I rewatched Armageddon before this, but that was kind of a letdown; was thinking it would be someone new.

So that Tinya subplot was just a waste of time -- good to know.

It was nice to see the extended Flash family, but did they do anything?

Edited July 1, 2022 by Trini

[cambridgeguy]

On a shallow note, those speedster cowls really need the chinstrap to look good.  Or maybe TC doesn't have the chin to pull it off.

Darkh is a hoot, but not really worthy of the hype they were trying to give his appearance.

So, were they hinting at 

Spoiler

Cobalt Blue

for next season?  If not then lighting up a blue chip is a pretty weird tease.

So does Danielle Nicolet have blackmail material on the writers?  They have trouble finding stuff for Iris (time sickness) and Caitlin (moping about Frost) to do, but keep pulling powers out of a hat to keep her in the middle of everything.

Edited June 30, 2022 by cambridgeguy

[Quark]

This season was a mess, I'm not sure I completely understood this finale, but I was entertained. The fights between Barry and Reverse Flash were very good. Plus anything with Michelle Harrison always elevates an episode.

So after eight seasons, do we finally have a proper Killer Frost? Would be interesting if the negative forces chose Caitlin as their avatar, but it looks like something else was hinted at with the blue stone.

[thuganomics85]

I am clearly not on the same wavelength as the writers because even though I was clearly suppose to be horrified by it, I was literally yelling "Do it, Barry!  Finish this for good!" when he went all Palpatine on Thawne's ass at the beginning.  Yeah, yeah, yeah: killing is a bad thing and heroes should be above it, but seriously.  Thawne has (and probably will) done so much damage and destroyed so many lives with his actions, and despite their efforts, Team Flash never seems to pacify him for long.  In this case, I would make an exception for some good old murder!

But alas, it instead ends with Barry defeating Thawne thanks to absorbing the positive speed-forces and.... meditation?  I think?  But, really, it was more due to Thawne letting his need to kill Barry consume him so much that he went too far at leveling up (sorry!) and more or less imploded.  Par for the course on this show!

Damien!!  I don't care if I'm being unfair or playing favorites: I actually like it when they bring him back.  At least they do different things with this character.  And Neal McDonough seems to actually try to make the effort.  Sure, he was only here to basically give Iris a pep-talk, but I'll take it!

They wasted both Nora and Bart here sadly.  And even Jay too.

Danielle Nicolet is more than capable when the time calls for it (although she can still be too over-the-top if the director isn't scaling her back, I think), but I really can't figure out why the show seems to be all in at making her the next big hero.

I wonder if we'll see Meena again?

While I mainly like the actors playing them, I really won't we don't see the Force folks again: good or bad.

Surprised nothing happened to Joe.  I guess Jesse L. Martin really is just scaling down next season and no longer a regular.  Guess it really won't be hard to explain why Joe isn't in a particular episode.

Looks like Caitlin and Chilllame successfully recreated Frost but she seems kind of... off.  I hate everything about this.

I really hope next season is the last.  Sure, the show has been on a steady decline for some time, but this is the first season where I feel like they're just scraping the bottom.  Hell, even the usually reliable cast is struggling to sell this.  Maybe having an endgame in mind will help things.  I obviously won't pretend that I won't be back, but man I hope this gets better.

[rmontro]

20 hours ago, DanaK said:

I really didn’t understand what Barry was doing with the meditation stuff. Was it allowing him, with the help of the positive speed force, to withstand the attacks from ReverseFlash or something else?

Reasons, I guess.

[Trini]

13 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

So does Danielle Nicolet have blackmail material on the writers?  They have trouble finding stuff for Iris (time sickness) and Caitlin (moping about Frost) to do, but keep pulling powers out of a hat to keep her in the middle of everything.

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Danielle Nicolet is more than capable when the time calls for it (although she can still be too over-the-top if the director isn't scaling her back, I think), but I really can't figure out why the show seems to be all in at making her the next big hero.

Besides favoritism, according to Eric Wallace's interviews, they are leveling her up (drink!) to replace Frost on the Team (even though Frost was barely effective in a fight and Allegra is right there), and she's getting more powers as a "reward" for saving the world.

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

...Maybe having an endgame in mind will help things.  I obviously won't pretend that I won't be back, but man I hope this gets better.

It will not. Per Wallace, they thought these past two seasons were the last, and they wrote accordingly, and look how things turned out.

If I hear good things about the characters I still care about, I'll watch those scenes; but I don't think I'll be watching regularly next season. This past season has been more annoying than enjoyable and i don't see it getting better without a shakeup behind the scenes.

[Trini]

[tennisgurl]

I admit it, when Barry was going all Palpatine on Thawne and Nora threw out that painfully cliché "if you do this its means you'll be just like him!" line, I actually yelled "no it doesn't!" at my screen. Nothing that Barry has ever done in his entire life has ever made him even close to Thawne and killing this asshole will in no way make him morally on the same level as a guy who has murdered multiple innocent people, that is an absolute false equivalency. Even Thawne said that none of this would have happened if he had just let the bastard wink out of existence, and he's right. He seems to be gone now, but I don't trust this show to stick with it, they do love beating several dead horses, like the stupid speed forces and Frost. This season probably isn't the worst the show has had, but its probably the laziest and most pointless. I am not surprised to read that the show runner thought that this would be the last season, they are scrapping the bottom of the barrel pretty hard. What was even accomplished this season? What has been the point?

Iris gets a spirit guide in the form of Damien, and I just love that guy, he really added some life to the episode. 

"I can sense how angry you are." Thanks for that, Cecile, no way could we tell that Barry is pissed about his wife disappearing yet again as she practically vibrates with rage without your amazing insights. I have liked Cecile in the past, but I don't get why the show is trying to make her into this super duper hero who is becoming the most powerful meta that ever existed and giving her even more screen time than Barry and Iris, our actual protagonists.

Now Frost is back, albeit as possibly some kind of Frostenstein monster or some other undead abomination, because Caitlin and Chilllame never saw Pet Cemetery. Thanks show, I hate it. Who do I hate more, returned Frost or the stupid speed forces? Trick question, its a tie. 

Not even having the rest of the speed family around made this work, they were all painfully underused. I guess this wasn't an awful finale, the last fight was decent and Iris is back in time for some Barry/Iris cuddles (although where are those babies?) but I just don't care anymore. I cant believe that Legends and Batwoman got canned while this show continues to limp along, I truly hope that next season is our last.

[BeautifulFlower]

I dropped this show last season. I've been observing to see what everyone's opinions are. 

How many powers does Cecile have now? I'm hearing she's the most powerful meta now. What?

[legaleagle53]

10 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I dropped this show last season. I've been observing to see what everyone's opinions are. 

How many powers does Cecile have now? I'm hearing she's the most powerful meta now. What?

The Positive Forces amplified her powers and also gave her the ability to take any other meta's powers as part of their plan to have her help free them from the limbo that the Negative Forces had trapped them in by way of the same time sickness that had infected Iris.

13 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Even Thawne said that none of this would have happened if he had just let the bastard wink out of existence, and he's right. He seems to be gone now, but I don't trust this show to stick with it, they do love beating several dead horses, like the stupid speed forces and Frost.

Nope. Thawne is done. The show runner made clear in several post-finale interviews that both his and Frost's deaths are going to stick, although he also said that Tom Cavanagh would be back next season in a different role. No word yet on who that will be, though.

[Proteus]

Thawne is not done. He will never be done until the show ends. It doesn't matter what Wallace says. And in one post mortem interview he even hinted as much. 

[Trini]

1 hour ago, Proteus said:

Thawne is not done. He will never be done until the show ends. It doesn't matter what Wallace says. And in one post mortem interview he even hinted as much. 

There's been exposition about it, but they still haven't shown us his origin story. That's still one more thing they can do with Thawne. And there's always flashbacks.

[PhoneCop]

On 6/30/2022 at 3:20 AM, cambridgeguy said:

So, were they hinting at 

  Hide contents

Cobalt Blue

for next season?  If not then lighting up a blue chip is a pretty weird tease.

There's speculation that

Spoiler

Rick Cosnett's possible return in Season 9 may involve him taking on that role.

I usually try to stick with a series to the bitter end—hello, X-Files!—but man, this show is really testing my resolve. It's not quite at the point of hate-watching, but it's definitely at the point of keeping the TV warm out of weekly habit. Where all I see are a bunch of attractive people I like (and some I don't) saying and doing things, sometimes with special effects. Would it make sense if I paid closer attention? Apparently not, so why try. Just look up periodically from my phone to admire how pretty Grant and Candice are. Although Grant is kind of a reminder that as bad as the writing was on Glee, at least it bowed out at six seasons.

But hey, Jesse's free! Mostly. I presume Jon Cor and Carmen Moore will be made regulars in his place.

[BeautifulFlower]

On 7/2/2022 at 12:51 AM, legaleagle53 said:

The Positive Forces amplified her powers and also gave her the ability to take any other meta's powers as part of their plan to have her help free them from the limbo that the Negative Forces had trapped them in by way of the same time sickness that had infected Iris.

??????????

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, BeautifulFlower said:

??????????

Just watch the episode, and it will make sense.

[Trini]

12 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Just watch the episode, and it will make sense.

Will it, though?

[legaleagle53]

5 minutes ago, Trini said:

Will it, though?

It did when I watched it!

[7kstar]

I wanted to be excited about the ending.  But the fight scenes felt cartoonist to me.  The big bad over the top and not really feeling a real sense of urgency or threat.  His death, underwhelming.  One of the worst performances by Tom Cavanagh.  I usually enjoy him but this time it was just a blah.

All the emotions were one dimensional.  The conflict missing.

I did enjoy the kids and Damien Dark. 

I wish I felt over excited for another season, but it feels like it is the end of the road.  Grant is looking older, as if he isn't really enjoying this anymore.

I didn't hate the negative forces, but their appearance didn't work.  How on earth are the twins still around with all of the changes.    I'm glad that they don't intend to leave the fans in a mess in case this had been the end of the road, but the payoff isn't working either.  How many times can someone almost die before it no longer matters? 

I would have rather been surprised by what happened vs a paint by number ending.  Nothing they did showed that Iris was really needed.  Instead of showing how vital she is, they told us.

It's moving towards the end and unless they can really do something drastic to put it back on track, it feels as if this is the end of the road.  Shame, as I want to feel different about it...but it's dying a slow death.  Not sure anyone can save this.

[johndoe666]

Like others and some, I feel like the flash died after XS entered the scene, then Impulse... mmm or a mediocre version of Impulse (I am a big fan of the comic character, collected all 88 comics of the run), and just like most I watch just because I need to watch something to not die of boredom, but ultimately, meh... flash is dead so far in the series, they made sure to kill him for me. Rebirthing old characters and bringing them again, is a lack of imagination, you got hundreds of characters and storylines from the comics, why? Why do the same over and over again? Just kill them already! I feel disappointed, really enjoyed the first 4-5 seasons, until well XS... so done, worst acting I have ever seen in my life :(