S01.E10: Victory Dance

[CheshireCat]

Quote

Franklin gifts Eleanor the charter for the League of Nations; after rehab, Betty vows to help others with addiction problems; Barack and Michelle prepare to leave the White House, determined to continue making a difference in the world.

Air date: Jun 12, 2022 / Jun 19, 2022

[Cress]

Betty's story was the best of the three ladies, and it was nice to see her open the Betty Ford Center. She overcame so much.

I liked Eleanor's story mostly, but I found her daughter's question, "why would someone have six kids if they didn't want to be a mother" so weird. Back when Eleanor first married, it wasn't like she had a choice to not have kids. Motherhood was expected of her, not a career, and birth control hadn't been invented. She probably would have had more kids if she didn't stop having sex with Franklin after she discovered his affair with Lucy. Her mother-in-law basically forced her to stay married when she wanted a divorce.

With the Obamas, they focused on the family saying goodbye to all the Whitehouse butlers, staff, instead of showing the Trumps moving in. I was glad that they moved on to Michelle's book too. That flashback to college with the roommate and the mother forcing a room change was so cringey.

[CheshireCat]

1 hour ago, Cress said:

Back when Eleanor first married, it wasn't like she had a choice to not have kids. Motherhood was expected of her, not a career, and birth control hadn't been invented. 

Condoms existed since the mid 1880s but I doubt it was something that was (widely) used as birth control for married couples. As you say, a woman was supposed to get pregnant.

[TakomaSnark]

This should have been a series about Betty - and Michelle would own that Best Actress Emmy if it had been singularly focused. As it is, what she delivered is muddled between so-so Michelle stuff (don't get me started on the facial expressions) and re-treads of Eleanor (Eleanor & Franklin and Eleanor & Franklin: The White House Years, starring Jane Alexander as the First Lady) is on YouTube for those interested.

Turns out they had to drop the final episode early for Emmy voting reasons. 

[Maisiesmom]

Well that was pretty good. Betty got better, Eleanor went on to do great things and the Obamas got out of the White House relatively unscathed. I especially liked the letter Betty sent Mrs. Obama towards the end. I still think Michelle should at least be nominated for something-she was awesome in every scene she had. Does anyone know if this series will continue on with 3 more First Ladies?

[emmawoodhouse]

Betty couldn't have written that letter. She died in 2011. 

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Betty couldn't have written that letter. She died in 2011. 

An earlier episode showed Michelle received the letter in 2009, around the time of the first inauguration.  We weren't told what Betty said at the time.

[emmawoodhouse]

5 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

An earlier episode showed Michelle received the letter in 2009, around the time of the first inauguration.  We weren't told what Betty said at the time.

Ah okay, I missed that. I only caught that they had to make accommodations for 90 year old Betty to attend the inauguration. 

[maggiemae]

Former first ladies that attended Betty's funeral were...Rosalyn, Nancy, Hillary and Michelle. GW Bush attended as well.

Edited June 20, 2022 by maggiemae

[TakomaSnark]

6 hours ago, maggiemae said:

Former first ladies that attended Betty's funeral were...Rosalyn, Nancy, Hillary and Michelle. GW Bush attended as well.

And Rosalyn delivered the eulogy, being the fellow First Lady with whom Betty had the closest personal relationship.

[Spartan Girl]

On 6/18/2022 at 2:56 AM, Cress said:

With the Obamas, they focused on the family saying goodbye to all the Whitehouse butlers, staff, instead of showing the Trumps moving in

Man, that was sad. I can only imagine how the staff was feeling during those farewells.

I loved this show, warts and all, but I agree Betty’s was my favorite. So happy that she was able to kick her addiction AND try to help other addicts. And I had to smile at Gerald cheerfully stop his occasional drinks for Betty’s sake. Yes, he didn’t have to but it was a sweet gesture nonetheless. For all his faults, he was one of the good ones. 

Hope we get another season with other First Ladies!

Edited June 20, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[StaceyNotStacie]

This was good, but I wish there was some sort of printed epilogue, at least for Eleanor and Betty, describing their final years and when they died. Their endings felt a bit incomplete. 
 

If there are future seasons with new First Ladies, I wonder if there will be guest appearances with Gillian Anderson or Michelle Pfeiffer reprising their roles as Betty and Eleanor. 

[cinsays]

11 minutes ago, StaceyNotStacie said:

This was good, but I wish there was some sort of printed epilogue, at least for Eleanor and Betty, describing their final years and when they died. Their endings felt a bit incomplete. 
 

If there are future seasons with new First Ladies, I wonder if there will be guest appearances with Gillian Anderson or Michelle Pfeiffer reprising their roles as Betty and Eleanor. 

I figured they were giving us enough to want us to do some research to find out more about these women.

I never liked Gillian Anderson, but she was wonderful in this role and that would be nice to see them appear with other first ladies profiled.  We don't need to see Viola in something about  the woman who followed her into the White House, but I think there's no chance in hell that they'd want to include her story.

[Hedgehog2022]

I would like to see Dolley Madison, Edith Wilson and Martha Washington as the women chosen for another First Ladies series. 

[StaceyNotStacie]

3 hours ago, cinsays said:

I figured they were giving us enough to want us to do some research to find out more about these women.

I never liked Gillian Anderson, but she was wonderful in this role and that would be nice to see them appear with other first ladies profiled.  We don't need to see Viola in something about  the woman who followed her into the White House, but I think there's no chance in hell that they'd want to include her story.

I think the only way they’d include Viola in this is if they decided to feature Jill Biden. 

[Hedgehog2022]

On 6/18/2022 at 2:56 AM, Cress said:

Betty's story was the best of the three ladies, and it was nice to see her open the Betty Ford Center. She overcame so much.

I liked Eleanor's story mostly, but I found her daughter's question, "why would someone have six kids if they didn't want to be a mother" so weird. Back when Eleanor first married, it wasn't like she had a choice to not have kids. Motherhood was expected of her, not a career, and birth control hadn't been invented. She probably would have had more kids if she didn't stop having sex with Franklin after she discovered his affair with Lucy. Her mother-in-law basically forced her to stay married when she wanted a divorce.

With the Obamas, they focused on the family saying goodbye to all the Whitehouse butlers, staff, instead of showing the Trumps moving in. I was glad that they moved on to Michelle's book too. That flashback to college with the roommate and the mother forcing a room change was so cringey.

I was curious to see how they portrayed the relationship between Eleanor and Anna later on after FDR passed. Having known Anna when she was a much older woman and had remarried a man who was a colleague of my father's, I know for a fact that their relationship was deeply fractured due to Anna's participation in facilitating the affair between FDR and Lucy Mercer. Anna was very much a Daddy's girl and blamed Eleanor for FDR's love affair with Mercer. She felt her mother was not a good wife or mother and valued her work above being there fully for the family and for FDR's "needs". She expressed a deep resentment towards Eleanor quite openly to my parents after a few drinks. The producers obviously cleaned this up and only showed a younger Anna's brief "clap back" at Eleanor. 

[izabella]

I loved getting to know more of Betty's story.  I'm so glad they picked her as one of the three women to feature.

If there is a next season, I hope it focuses on more of the lesser-known Ladies.

[marymon]

On 6/20/2022 at 4:20 PM, Hedgehog2022 said:

I would like to see Dolley Madison, Edith Wilson and Martha Washington as the women chosen for another First Ladies series. 

Edith Wilson for sure.

[marinw]

Nitpick: Michelle ordering Malia to punch the pillow was weird. Michelle has been boxing for years, she knows all about punching. So she sould have gotten out her boxing pads, or at least held the poor pillow up at chest level.

Yup, that was my most profound insight from this episode.

I was excited for Eleanor setting up her cottage and living indepently. I got the impression she and Tommy got together.

On 6/21/2022 at 8:14 PM, izabella said:

If there is a next season, I hope it focuses on more of the lesser-known Ladies.

They won't be able to resist Hillary Clinton, because of cource they have to revisit the Monika Lewinsky thing even though it has already been done a lot.

Jill Biden seems like a super interesting person, but her story is still ongoing. Is she still a teacher? I always loved how she insisted on keeping her job when she was the Second Lady.

She Who Must Not Be Named could be funny, but we aren't ready yet.

Edited June 22, 2022 by marinw

[Cress]

On 6/18/2022 at 3:23 AM, CheshireCat said:

Condoms existed since the mid 1880s but I doubt it was something that was (widely) used as birth control for married couples. As you say, a woman was supposed to get pregnant.

Oh, I was thinking of the birth control pill not being invented yet. Yeah, condoms did exist back then, but I believe the Comstock Act or whatever it was called forbade people from selling condoms, etc, saying that it was distributing obscene materials. So yeah, they did not encourage young ladies to try preventing pregnancy at all.

[readster]

10 hours ago, Cress said:

Oh, I was thinking of the birth control pill not being invented yet. Yeah, condoms did exist back then, but I believe the Comstock Act or whatever it was called forbade people from selling condoms, etc, saying that it was distributing obscene materials. So yeah, they did not encourage young ladies to try preventing pregnancy at all.

Yes and that went on to the late 70s. When divorces became more common and AIDS in the 80s, condoms became more fixture on things just like the pill. Sadly these days, people act like it is the 1880s all over again with: "Well, if you got knocked up, it's your own damn fault, should have not had sex you tramp."

[Marley]

I don’t know if it was their intention but Eleanors daughters came off as a total bitch to me. How she can blame everything on Eleanor is a big joke.

I’d like for them to do other First Ladies. Nothing recent tho. I don’t need to relive certain recent events.

Bettys story was the best. I thought it was cute Gerry quit drinking too.

Usually love Viola Davis but I had to FF most of her scenes. Too cringey. Whoever was Barack wasn't any better either. 

[auntjess]

On 6/22/2022 at 7:17 PM, marinw said:

She Who Must Not Be Named could be funny, but we aren't ready yet.

I'm not.  
I'd like to see Florence Harding, although apparently his death was natural and she didn't do it.  (TeaPot Dome scandal was brewing, Harding was facing charges, they took a train trip during which he died in his sleep.  Lots or juicy rumors.)
Edith Roosevelt would be interesting, and they could show Alice and her escapades.
 

[MMEButterfly]

I would like Edith Wilson, Pat Nixon, and Roselyn Carter

[readster]

On 6/25/2022 at 6:29 PM, MMEButterfly said:

I would like Edith Wilson, Pat Nixon, and Roselyn Carter

Pat would be really interesting. 

[auntjess]

For those interested in Edith Wilson, Smithsonian Channel has a show on her.
Saturday, 2AM ET.

Madam President

Season 2, Episode 3

Newly uncovered documents suggest Edith Wilson effectively became America's first female president after Woodrow Wilson suffered a major stroke.

[SWLinPHX]

On 6/20/2022 at 2:20 PM, Hedgehog2022 said:

I would like to see Dolley Madison, Edith Wilson and Martha Washington as the women chosen for another First Ladies series. 

How about a whole episode on Martha Washington, Mary Todd Lincoln and Melania Trump -- three strong and independent first ladies?  🙃

Edited July 2, 2022 by SWLinPHX

[Hedgehog2022]

On 7/2/2022 at 12:56 PM, SWLinPHX said:

How about a whole episode on Martha Washington, Mary Todd Lincoln and Melania Trump -- three strong and independent first ladies?  🙃

Melania Trump...

[kassa]

From studying genealogy I've noticed that MOST people (no matter the social class) weren't having 6 children. Whether people stopped having sex, started having non-reproductive sex, gave the husband a pass to go get it elsewhere, or just got lucky, I don't know, but I think 6 children in their social class would have been considered an outlier. Childbirth was still very dangerous, no antibiotics for postpartum infection, etc. - each additional child was a MAJOR gamble with the entire family's survival. Not so much for the Roosevelts, obviously. In their circles it probably would have been seen as too overt an expression of their sex life to be tasteful.

A good read is JB West's Upstairs at the White House, which gives a good behind the scenes look at a lot of Presidential families.  It goes into detail on the complete structural failure discovered during the Truman years mentioned elsewhere in this discussion. Best anecdote was Bess and Harry Truman literally breaking their bed in the middle of the night.  That's about as salacious as it gets, but it really gives you a sense of the women/families and how they ran things their own way through the years.

A friend's family member has worked in the White House for many years and has nothing but praise for each President he has served (except the last one who merits strictly a grim 'no comment').  Laura Bush is the most exceptionally kind human being he ever met.  Apparently there's quite a distinction (that West makes in his book as well) in how the background of the first families makes for easy or more difficult transition - those who have had servants or staff in the past take to White House living with much more ease and things run smoothly because there isn't any awkwardness. For those new Presidents from more modest backgrounds, it takes a lot of adjustment for everybody to find a working rhythm.