S06.E07: Plan and Execution

[Tatum]

11 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

Lalo takes the bullets out of the gun and puts in one blank cartridge.  He removes the silencer and leaves the gun behind when he leaves.

Do you think he would cooperate and leave his gun? I mean, it really isn't anything to him what the police make of the crime scene. He's already skipped bail (perhaps not officially, but his bail would be revoked based on what the court knows), and likely would have been found guilty anyways- does he really care if the police know it's a murder and he is the guilty one?

Edited June 2, 2022 by Tatum

[PeterPirate]

2 hours ago, Tatum said:

Do you think he would cooperate and leave his gun? I mean, it really isn't anything to him what the police make of the crime scene. He's already skipped bail (perhaps not officially, but his bail would be revoked based on what the court knows), and likely would have been found guilty anyways- does he really care if the police know it's a murder and he is the guilty one?

True, Lalo would need to want his lawyers to avoid a murder rap.  That may be fanciful but I just don't think removing the body is practical.  

[qtpye]

22 hours ago, Adiba said:

Right, that’s sort of what I meant by my post. By “plot purpose” I was including how Howard’s murder also will affect Kim and Jimmy regarding their marriage. 
That, for me, is the main reason I’m watching the show now. I know what happens to the characters in BB. And, unless “Gene” has some sort of redemption arc, I really don’t care.
I also would hope that the writers at least give us some semblance or hint of an investigation into Howard’s murder/ disappearance— it doesn’t have to dovetail into anything about the Gus/Lalo situation for it to make sense to me, as a viewer.
I hope I’m not being too pedantic here. I just would feel extremely annoyed if the show completely glosses over the murder with no one poking around.

20 hours ago, Starchild said:

Agree totally. We know Saul continues to practice after these events, so consequences for him were minimal. But Kim could still pay dearly, and she kind of deserves to. Let's hope that comes to pass, for Howard's sake.

And Chuck's too, frankly. Jimmy really deserves that one, so here's hoping Gene eventually gets it for that, one way or another, delayed though it may be.

17 hours ago, Bannon said:

Can you imagine the contempt Mike will have for Saul, if Kim takes some sort of legal or professional fall for him, while he completely skates? Worse yet, if something violent befalls her?

Maybe Kim is in the BB timeline as the woman pulling the strings.

Saul Goodman is just a gross front and his "criminal" law practice funds her pro bono work but he never mentions it.

They might publicly get a divorce to keep up appearances.

This also means that Kim will have to go into hiding once the shit hits the fan in the BB world.

[Tatum]

20 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Maybe Kim is in the BB timeline as the woman pulling the strings.

Saul Goodman is just a gross front and his "criminal" law practice funds her pro bono work but he never mentions it.

They might publicly get a divorce to keep up appearances.

This also means that Kim will have to go into hiding once the shit hits the fan in the BB world.

But as someone pointed out, Saul has a female visitor that has very un-Kim like tastes in clothes.

Although actually I kind of love the idea of Kim renouncing her blue pantsuits and pencil skirts with pumps, and fully embracing the leopard prints...

[qtpye]

49 minutes ago, Tatum said:

But as someone pointed out, Saul has a female visitor that has very un-Kim like tastes in clothes.

Although actually I kind of love the idea of Kim renouncing her blue pantsuits and pencil skirts with pumps, and fully embracing the leopard prints...

It could be part of the ruse, like hitting on Francesca.

[PeterPirate]

2 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

True, Lalo would need to want his lawyers to avoid a murder rap.  That may be fanciful but I just don't think removing the body is practical.  

OK, so I've given the suicide scenario some ruminating, and here is what I have:  

Lalo berates J&K over their association with Nacho.  After he leaves, they call.  Mike is reluctant to leave the safe house where Gus is being secured, but Gus tells Mike to go take care of J&K.  Mike arrives and helps stage a suicide.  

Meanwhile, Gus leaves the safe house and goes to the launderia where he shoots Lalo.  

[peeayebee]

19 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

However, any other plan relies on nobody else at the complex noticing the Jaguar in the parking lot.  That, I submit, is less believable than the suicide scenario.  

I read something a couple of weeks ago or so -- an interview with Peter Gould or Schnauz? -- where the car was mentioned. I'm not sure if I should repeat what I read, but it might be something of a spoiler.

[PeterPirate]

5 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I read something a couple of weeks ago or so -- an interview with Peter Gould or Schnauz? -- where the car was mentioned. I'm not sure if I should repeat what I read, but it might be something of a spoiler.

Maybe put it in the Spoiler thread?

[peeayebee]

I avoid the spoiler thread. It's not a definite event, but I avoid the speculation thread, too. So... never mind I guess. :)

[JudyObscure]

I avoid the spoiler thread, the speculation thread, and any post on this thread that starts out, "I saw the writer/actor/whoever in an interview and they said...."  Not picking on you Peeayebee, often it's nothing spoilery at all, I just don't want to know any real life behind the scenes stuff.  It messes with my suspension of disbelief.  Kim is a real person to me, I don't want to know if the actress actually hates ponytails and old movies.

Edited June 3, 2022 by JudyObscure
ETA: I know milage varies on this and some people love that kind of info. Not complaining, just saying.

[Eulipian 5k]

On 6/1/2022 at 5:47 PM, Bannon said:

I just cannot buy, under any circumstance, that law enforcement would believe for even a tenth of a second, that Howard killed himself in S&K's apartment, with a pistol that had zero previous connection to Howard.

A left handed person shot himself on the right side of his head, with a 4-6" silencer attached? Hmm.

[Starchild]

Howard was left-handed? Never noticed.

[Lalo Lives]

One of the things the G&G guys seem to stress is 'what does someone DESERVE'?

As if that is a clue to Jimmy's post Cinnabon fate.

But many people in the BB/BCS universe have received punishments that do not correspond to what they may have 'deserved.'

(btw, Lalo is also LEFT HANDED, FWIW.)

So are G&G throwing out nebulous clues as to what to expect or perhaps just saying obtuse things for the heck of it?

[PeterPirate]

On 6/1/2022 at 2:47 PM, Bannon said:

I just cannot buy, under any circumstance, that law enforcement would believe for even a tenth of a second, that Howard killed himself in S&K's apartment, with a pistol that had zero previous connection to Howard.  

23 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

A left handed person shot himself on the right side of his head, with a 4-6" silencer attached? Hmm.

I'm not sure what the site's new policies are regarding using the names of real people who are not connected to the show.  So I will just point out that a few months ago there was a very high-profile murder suspect in Florida who supposedly shot himself on the left side of his head even though he was right-handed. 

So let's assume that Bannon is right and the police don't think Howard's death is a suicide.  That doesn't mean they are going to be able to prove J&K were the murderers or even get the coroner to rule the death a homicide.  Indeed, the more they think Saul is culpable, the more it will cement his reputation as The Criminal Lawyer. 

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, Lalo Lives said:

One of the things the G&G guys seem to stress is 'what does someone DESERVE'?

As if that is a clue to Jimmy's post Cinnabon fate.

But many people in the BB/BCS universe have received punishments that do not correspond to what they may have 'deserved.'

(btw, Lalo is also LEFT HANDED, FWIW.)

So are G&G throwing out nebulous clues as to what to expect or perhaps just saying obtuse things for the heck of it?

Gale didn’t deserve to be shot point blank in the face. Hank and Gomez didn’t deserve their deaths. Neither of Jesse’s girlfriends deserved their deaths. Drew Sharpe didn’t deserve his death. And no, Howard didn’t deserve his death.

[Starchild]

Has anyone in either show had a happy ending yet?

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, Starchild said:

Has anyone in either show had a happy ending yet?

Gretchen and Elliot? Skinny Pete and Badger?

Edited June 4, 2022 by Cinnabon

[gallimaufry]

1 hour ago, Starchild said:

Has anyone in either show had a happy ending yet?

Clearly a traditional clappy-happy, ride into the sunset ending is right out.  But quite a lot of the BB fates have a bittersweet element, even the very bleak ones:

Jesse is the closest in that he escaped to a new life - but he was tortured by Nazis for a year and only two women he loved were both killed. 

Hank dies but this also pays off his long arc about his self-doubts and disability... he finally catches Walt and dies a hero, the man he thought he was.

Walt Jr turns down Walt's help showing he's incorruptible but Walt has also arranged for him to receive the remains of his Heisenberg treasure through Gretchen and Elliot.

Skylar is at a low point but is given the lottery ticket which gives us just a glimpse of hope that she will make it out of her legal trouble.

Walt dies but he was always going to die.  However, he dies having avenged himself against all his enemies, taken care of his family and signing his work with a "blood W".

Marie is the only one who really doesn't have much of an ending at all.  And obviously the characters who died along the way all go out under pretty bleak circumstances including Mike, Gus and Saul in his own way since for him the party's over.

In BCS terms, Nacho's death feels consistent with this pattern -- yes, very bleak, but there's also a kind of moral catharsis in Nacho finally being free to speak his mind and unambiguously doing something noble and heroic in sacrificing himself for his father.  Although his death wasn't the end of the story, it was kind of the end of his multi-year arc.

I think for Howard, like Marie, all the way through he's been a player in the other characters' dramas rather than a leading light in his own right.  So I guess they felt easier about giving him a bleaker death.  But who knows, one of the themes of the show is the legacy you leave behind and we'll see whether they can give Howard some small measure of justice after he's gone.

I would guess that the bittersweet tone is the what they'll strike with Jimmy and Kim (all the other major character's fates are either known or... well... Lalo).  But that doesn't mean they'll be alive at the end - for Kim it could easily be that she sets up a fund that helps the disadvantaged find representation long after she's gone.

[JudyObscure]

4 hours ago, gallimaufry said:

Marie is the only one who really doesn't have much of an ending at all.

Marie was such a devoted wife, sister, and aunt, she deserves a happy life.  I hope she received  a good pension from Hank's job and found a nice second husband who doesn't mind the color purple.  I also hope that from time to time she goes house hunting and makes a fool out of some realtor, because I loved that.

[Constantinople]

14 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Gale didn’t deserve to be shot point blank in the face.

Gale manufactured addictive human poison.

I saw a documentary about meth addiction around the time Breaking Bad ended. In it, someone who studied the problem noticed a correlation between meth purity and addiction. I forget how they measured addiction, but meth purity was based on meth seized by law enforcement. I don't think it got higher than the low 60s. In general, the purer the meth, the harder it was for to people to stop using it. 

Box Cutter, the Season 4 premiere, opened with a flashback in which Gale told Gus he could guarantee a purity of 96%, but the sample of blue meth he analyzed was a bit over 99%.

[Lalo Lives]

How much time does the series need to stretch between S6E7 and the beginning of BB?

It looks like we've got to get from June of 2004 to September 2008 in 6 episodes. Is this a correct interpretation of events so far?

(I've done 'the Google and all the twitters' but who knows what one gets there.)

[Ailianna]

Is there something that says we actually have to get to the timeline of BB? Or do we just need to have Jimmy become the person Saul is in BB? I thought it was the latter. So if Jimmy completes his transformation to Saul, we are where we are supposed to be. If we see what happens to Gene, we are far past BB. So I don't think we have to be in 2008 at all.

[Lalo Lives]

That's a good point.

I had assumed since we see Gene post-BB we would also see some glimpse (however brief) of the intervening years.

[PeterPirate]

11 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Gale didn’t deserve to be shot point blank in the face. Hank and Gomez didn’t deserve their deaths. Neither of Jesse’s girlfriends deserved their deaths. Drew Sharpe didn’t deserve his death. And no, Howard didn’t deserve his death.

One can argue that Jesse did not deserve to go free.  Saul too.  

Spooge, on the other hand, deserved to have an ATM dropped on his head.  

Walt Jr. and Hank are the two genuine heroes of BB.  

15 minutes ago, Ailianna said:

Is there something that says we actually have to get to the timeline of BB? Or do we just need to have Jimmy become the person Saul is in BB? I thought it was the latter. So if Jimmy completes his transformation to Saul, we are where we are supposed to be. If we see what happens to Gene, we are far past BB. So I don't think we have to be in 2008 at all.

I can envision one episode where they fast-forward through the gap years.  

I for one hope the Lalo story wraps up next episode.  I'd rather see two episodes with Gene, one where he deals with the cabbie and another with Kim.  

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Why can't J & K claim they witnessed Lalo murdering Howard? It would be an ultimate con.  It also has the merit of being true.  If Gus ends up sending Lalo to Belize, J & K would likely escape any cartel problems for fingering one of them.  They have no good or easy choices here.

Howard's blood profile and hair follicles would prove he was as clean as can be, beyond being drunk.  Would HHM not demand an ultimate investigation?  Certainly, the muckety mucks in the ABQ Bar would, too.  So, at a minimum, if they go with suicide, Howard's body must be disappeared. 

Namaste3mobile, too.  :(

[Constantinople]

14 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Why can't J & K claim they witnessed Lalo murdering Howard? It would be an ultimate con.  It also has the merit of being true.  If Gus ends up sending Lalo to Belize, J & K would likely escape any cartel problems for fingering one of them.

I don't see why if the cartel finds out J&K tells law enforcement that Lalo killed Howard. And I don't see how that wouldn't draw a lot of media attention considering:

• Jorge De Guzman was arrested for first degree murder of a local money wire clerk
• Jimmy personally posted the 7 million dollars cash to get De Guzman out on bail
• Mexican authorities notified local prosecutors and police that De Guzman is really Lalo Salamanca, a prominent member of a Mexican drug cartel
• Mexican authorities also reported Lalo died in a shootout between rival cartels or within the cartel
• J&K would now be saying not only did Lalo fake his own death, which is a he'll of a story
• J&K would also be saying Lalo killed one of the most prominent local attorneys after being out on bail

Even if the Cartel didn't immediately send someone or someones to kill J&K, Tuco Salamanca will kill them himself once he gets out of jail. Some time in Season 5, Lalo said Tuco was getting out in 11 months.

And that doesn't even address how J&K will explain why Howard was as present in the or home.

And once local and federal authorities find out Lalo murdered Howard, they will go through everything at HHM with a fine tooth comb. I expect much more thoroughly than they would if Howard vanishes. They'll want to know what connection there is between HHM, the cartel and two lawyers who once worked for HHM. They won't find anything to tie HHM to Lalo, but I can't believe they wouldn't uncover J&K's scam.

[PeterPirate]

2 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Why can't J & K claim they witnessed Lalo murdering Howard? It would be an ultimate con.  It also has the merit of being true.  If Gus ends up sending Lalo to Belize, J & K would likely escape any cartel problems for fingering one of them.  They have no good or easy choices here.  

That could work.  Lalo's fingerprints may still be on the aquarium from his first visit.  J&K can say that Lalo was there to get his money and Howard just happened to be there at the time.  And maybe J&K's utterances after Lalo shot Howard were loud enough to alert the neighbors.  

There would still be a lot of complications, though, as Constantinople outlined above.   

2 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Howard's blood profile and hair follicles would prove he was as clean as can be, beyond being drunk.  Would HHM not demand an ultimate investigation?  Certainly, the muckety mucks in the ABQ Bar would, too.  So, at a minimum, if they go with suicide, Howard's body must be disappeared. 

Namaste3mobile, too.  :(

If they are able to disappear Howard and his car with nobody seeing them, they won't need to say anything at all.  Howard will simply vanish from the face of the earth and the police won't have any reason to focus on them.  

.....

Also, I just watched a review video that pointed out Lalo will be able to deduce from Jimmy's reaction that Jimmy knew about the hit.  

Edited June 4, 2022 by PeterPirate

[Lalo Lives]

Also, I just watched a review video that pointed out Lalo will be able to deduce from Jimmy's reaction that Jimmy knew about the hit.  

EDITED 1 HOUR AGO BY PETERPIRATE

If he can deduce that, he can also deduce from Kim's reaction that she knew he was alive.

That should prove to be an interesting conversation. And perhaps not a comfy spot for Kim.

[Lalo Lives]

Maybe not an original thought...and would require serious sfx on the part of Lalo and Howard, but what if Lalo and Howard have teamed up to fake Howard's murder?

Absolutely NO REASON for this to happen logically.

But J&K would seriously pit their shants and Howard would have some measure of revenge.

Lalo could usher them out at gunpoint, they'd freak, etc, etc.

[PeterPirate]

22 minutes ago, Lalo Lives said:

Quote

Also, I just watched a review video that pointed out Lalo will be able to deduce from Jimmy's reaction that Jimmy knew about the hit.  

If he can deduce that, he can also deduce from Kim's reaction that she knew he was alive.  

That's also a possibility I've heard.  Imo Kim looked pretty surprised and horrified too.  Or Lalo could think Kim is made of sterner stuff.  Could go either way.  

[Cinnabon]

13 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Gale manufactured addictive human poison.

I saw a documentary about meth addiction around the time Breaking Bad ended. In it, someone who studied the problem noticed a correlation between meth purity and addiction. I forget how they measured addiction, but meth purity was based on meth seized by law enforcement. I don't think it got higher than the low 60s. In general, the purer the meth, the harder it was for to people to stop using it. 

Box Cutter, the Season 4 premiere, opened with a flashback in which Gale told Gus he could guarantee a purity of 96%, but the sample of blue meth he analyzed was a bit over 99%.

He wasn’t a good person, but still didn’t deserve to be shot point blank in the face. He deserved prison.

10 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

One can argue that Jesse did not deserve to go free.  Saul too. 

I don’t think Jesse or Saul deserved to go free.

[Cinnabon]

10 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

Walt Jr. and Hank are the two genuine heroes of BB.

Agree 💯 .

9 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Would HHM not demand an ultimate investigation? 

Demand from whom? Most of us don’t get to make demands of law enforcement.

[Lalo Lives]

One of the obvious questions is that Lalo clearly wants something of his lawyers.

The 7 million would be nice, but as we saw with the Cousins when they filled bags for his bail money, he has access to much much much more cash.

Lalo probably is rationally thinking that  the laundry is a tough target for one man. So maybe he goes to plan B. What that is I don't know. More men from down south, people Saul may be able to recruit via the vet, not sure? But Lalo wants something dearly from J&K.

He may just punish Jimmy---for the bail-across-the-desert-fiasco, Jimmy's obviously false story, his potential (to Lalo's mind) coziness with Mike---by taking Kim across the border as his personal consigliere/lawyer/and.... maybe something else. Remember, Lalo called Kim a looker. He was also impressed with her from the Season 5 apartment Tell Me Again thing.

This would be a quasi-parallel to Jesse being in chained servitude to the Uncle Jack and Todd crowd.

[peeayebee]

I didn't consider that Lalo is going to tell Jimmy and Kim they're going to help him with getting to the laundry/lab. I have no idea what he could 'ask' of them, but it makes sense since that's the most important thing in his life right now.

[Ailianna]

Why would Kim and Jimmy have resources to take on Gus, which is what going after the lab/laundry entails? Makes no sense. I'm sure he wants something but it's not guys.

[peeayebee]

Does Lalo know that Jimmy knows Mike?

[monagatuna]

On 6/5/2022 at 7:21 AM, Lalo Lives said:

One of the obvious questions is that Lalo clearly wants something of his lawyers.

The 7 million would be nice, but as we saw with the Cousins when they filled bags for his bail money, he has access to much much much more cash.

Lalo is smart enough to know he forfeited the 7MM when he jumped bail, and he knew that money resides with the court now. No amount of silver-tongued lawyering from Saul is getting that cash back (and I really, really doubt Lalo thinks Saul has that kind of cash, liquid or not, himself).

It's also not that hard of a feat to get rid of the NAMAST3mobile, should they choose the "disappear the body" route, presuming they still have their handmade "keys" to the car. Slap some mud on the license plate, drive it out to the desert, dump it, bury the plates, hike back home. Not perfect, but it's one way to get the Jag out of town.

As to what happens to Howard's body, I can't begin to speculate. My guess is disappearing the body, but I prefer to be surprised either way. But I don't think the writers will do it sloppily. They know Howard is a fan favorite and will do it right. Throughout the series I've seen speculation and questioning on this and other sources, all of which raised excellent questions, and all of which were eventually answered by the show. It's anyone's guess what happens now, and it's anyone's guess where Kim ends up, and I can't wait to see the last six episodes to find out! Come on, July 11!

Edited June 7, 2022 by monagatuna

[Eulipian 5k]

On 6/2/2022 at 10:48 AM, Tatum said:

I think Kim pretty clearly stated last season she wanted the case settled sooner because she wanted Jimmy's cut to fund her pro bono criminal defense firm. She hasn't mentioned it this season

She did mention it by bringing up her proposal to Cliff. She actually abandoned a chance to fund her plan when she made the big U-turn. She went with the pro-boner scam.

[Eulipian 5k]

On 6/2/2022 at 10:52 AM, Tatum said:

Do you think he would cooperate and leave his gun?

And would his gun's markings match the one used in the Travel Wire murder? Because the Travel Wire bullet is totally tied to Eduardo Salamanca, thx, Mike!

[Eulipian 5k]

On 6/4/2022 at 1:24 PM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Why can't J & K claim they witnessed Lalo murdering Howard?

Answer: Two Cousins, one axe.

J/K cannot rat on Lalo or they'd be working at Cinnabon's long before Walt gets his cancer diagnosis.

[Tatum]

21 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

She did mention it by bringing up her proposal to Cliff. She actually abandoned a chance to fund her plan when she made the big U-turn. She went with the pro-boner scam.

Yeah, that was the moment I decided I did not like her anymore.

Granted, she's changed her business model some (taking cases she can work on alone), which allows her to work for minimum wage since presumably she has savings and Jimmy to share (or fund entirely) living expenses, but the last season she talked about bringing in some bigwig corporate lawyers and if she's taking on anything more than traffic violations/drug busts she's going to need to budget for expert consultants for a legal defense. Even a 7 figure payout from Sandpiper would dry up in a year in that situation. People inspired by Kim may be willing to take a pay cut, but no one not being bankrolled by a cartel lawyer is going to be able or willing to work for minimum wage when they likely still have law school student loans to pay off.

I could cut her a lot of slack for thinking embarrassing someone born on third base was a fair trade to bring in legal justice for marginalized people, but that really was not what was motivating her by the last two episodes.

She's obviously not as terrible as anyone else on this show, but this was a disappointing character development for me, personally. She could have done a lot more for her supposed goal taking that meeting than using whatever she wrings out from the settlement.

[Lalo Lives]

33 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

And would his gun's markings match the one used in the Travel Wire murder? Because the Travel Wire bullet is totally tied to Eduardo Salamanca, thx, Mike!

I think I remember the APD people saying the Travel Wire murder was by blunt force trauma.

(Fred was a petite dude. Abuelita could have whipped his butt. Lalo could have disposed of him with little fanfare unless Fred Whalen was part-timing in the UFC.)

If so, then no connection would exist  to any handgun Lalo had on him. Also, even if it was a murder by gun, at the Travel Wire murder Lalo had a different gun from the one he used on Howard.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Lalo Lives
Spelling

[Lalo Lives]

BB WIKI says strangled.

FANDOM WIKI says blunt force trauma.

And yes, 2 different guns.

One a 1911 variant and the other is 'maybe' an HK product (maybe a souvenir from Germany). Pic is grainy.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

On 6/4/2022 at 10:41 PM, Cinnabon said:

Agree 💯 .

Demand from whom? Most of us don’t get to make demands of law enforcement.

None of us run one of the most powerful law firms in the state which would be as connected as connected gets.

1 hour ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Answer: Two Cousins, one axe.

J/K cannot rat on Lalo or they'd be working at Cinnabon's long before Walt gets his cancer diagnosis.

They wouldn't know it, but Lalo is running a rogue operation.  Eladio, and yes, Hector, would not (will not) be happy with him.  It would not be beyond Saul and Kim to try to get Lalo, or whatever name he used for bail, into prison.  Their options pretty much suck, whichever way they go.  For me, anyway, this option would fall within typical suspension of disbelief in the Gilliverse.  YMMV.

[Eulipian 5k]

When Hector was pounding the bell during his convo with Lalo, I couldn't tell if he disagreed with what Lalo was going to do or if he was warning Lalo that Gus may be listening.

1 hour ago, Lalo Lives said:

BB WIKI says strangled.

FANDOM WIKI says blunt force trauma.

Ewpps. Didn't he have a gun in his hand when he dropped from the ceiling? (Doesn't mean he used it). He had the silencer on the gun he had in Germany, thought it was his "special, EDC" gun.

[Tatum]

29 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

When Hector was pounding the bell during his convo with Lalo, I couldn't tell if he disagreed with what Lalo was going to do or if he was warning Lalo that Gus may be listening.

Could be either, but I thought Hector was mainly concerned that even if Lalo managed to kill Gus and get away from his minions, Eladio would be pissed at him and have him killed anyways. Basically, any and all outcomes would lead to Lalo's death ultimately.

Really, I wonder if Hector feels any guilt about his shitty poker face giving everything away to Gus in the first place. He didn't even try in front of Gus. He may as well said "nyah nyah nyah nyah" while sticking his thumbs to either side of his forehead while waggling his fingers..

[PeterPirate]

1 hour ago, Tatum said:

Yeah, that was the moment I decided I did not like her anymore.

Granted, she's changed her business model some (taking cases she can work on alone), which allows her to work for minimum wage since presumably she has savings and Jimmy to share (or fund entirely) living expenses, but the last season she talked about bringing in some bigwig corporate lawyers and if she's taking on anything more than traffic violations/drug busts she's going to need to budget for expert consultants for a legal defense. Even a 7 figure payout from Sandpiper would dry up in a year in that situation. People inspired by Kim may be willing to take a pay cut, but no one not being bankrolled by a cartel lawyer is going to be able or willing to work for minimum wage when they likely still have law school student loans to pay off.

I could cut her a lot of slack for thinking embarrassing someone born on third base was a fair trade to bring in legal justice for marginalized people, but that really was not what was motivating her by the last two episodes.

She's obviously not as terrible as anyone else on this show, but this was a disappointing character development for me, personally. She could have done a lot more for her supposed goal taking that meeting than using whatever she wrings out from the settlement.

This raises a question I've had for a while:  Do people have to like a character in order to watch them?  

There is one online reviewer who refers to Kim as "Kimmy Corleone".  I frankly disagree with this because he paints Kim as the person in charge of what J&K do, when Jimmy is at least half responsible for the situation they find themselves in, if not more.  

However, considering that both Michael and Vito Corleone started out as "good" people who turned to crime to help their families, I think "Kimmy Corleone" is somewhat appropriate.  I've watched both Godfather movies many times.  I can't say that I  "like" either of the Corleones, but I do find their stories compelling to watch.  

[Tatum]

15 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

This raises a question I've had for a while:  Do people have to like a character in order to watch them?  

Well it depends on what you mean by like them. Some of my favorite characters on TV shows are not very good people- I wouldn't want to know them in real life, but I enjoy watching them and want to see them succeed. Also, I have people I hate watch, and I actively root against them each time.

I am fine with Kim having an amorphous set of ethics. Jimmy is worse than she is and I still like him most of the time. But the scheme with Howard was the first time I actually wanted to see them fail, and it grinds my gears that they not only succeeded, but gloated over their victory, and didn't seem to feel one bit of remorse over what they did. I think they basically felt pretty power drunk, and I am sure what happens with Lalo will humble them and I might find them more endearing again.

They don't feel like the underdogs any more- Kim is always outsmarting her opponents which makes her somewhat unrelatable to me. I don't think anyone in real life is as smart as Kim is portrayed. She is always able to predict the other person's next move, she always has a quick and better comeback, and she is well versed on every legal precedent ever.

[scenario]

1 hour ago, Tatum said:

Well it depends on what you mean by like them. Some of my favorite characters on TV shows are not very good people- I wouldn't want to know them in real life, but I enjoy watching them and want to see them succeed. Also, I have people I hate watch, and I actively root against them each time.

I am fine with Kim having an amorphous set of ethics. Jimmy is worse than she is and I still like him most of the time. But the scheme with Howard was the first time I actually wanted to see them fail, and it grinds my gears that they not only succeeded, but gloated over their victory, and didn't seem to feel one bit of remorse over what they did. I think they basically felt pretty power drunk, and I am sure what happens with Lalo will humble them and I might find them more endearing again.

They don't feel like the underdogs any more- Kim is always outsmarting her opponents which makes her somewhat unrelatable to me. I don't think anyone in real life is as smart as Kim is portrayed. She is always able to predict the other person's next move, she always has a quick and better comeback, and she is well versed on every legal precedent ever.

There are people who are really smart. And most of Kim's opponents didn't know that Kim was their opponent. That makes it easier to win.

And I find it easy to like people that I shouldn't like. Even when Kim and Jimmy celebrated something awful I still liked them. In the world, there are people I like who I never want to see again because they are toxic. If I knew someone like them in real life, I would never trust them and not want to be around them but I'd still like them. 

[Starchild]

3 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

This raises a question I've had for a while:  Do people have to like a character in order to watch them?  

I didn't like Walter White but his journey fascinated me.