White Hot: The Rise & Fall of Abercrombie & Fitch - General Discussion

[BetterButter]

 

[shantown]

As someone who was in high school in the late 90s/early 2000s, I can't wait to watch this and relive being awkward and uncool but always wanting an Abercrombie catalog anyway. I remember they were shipped in blue shrinkwrap because it was too "racy" to be sent like a normal catalog. 

I wonder if any of the more famous models will be interviewed or discussed - Ashton Kutcher, Colton Haynes, Chris Carmack, and Channing Tatum are ones that I remember.

[Scarlett45]

On 4/1/2022 at 12:59 PM, shantown said:

As someone who was in high school in the late 90s/early 2000s, I can't wait to watch this and relive being awkward and uncool but always wanting an Abercrombie catalog anyway. I remember they were shipped in blue shrinkwrap because it was too "racy" to be sent like a normal catalog. 

I wonder if any of the more famous models will be interviewed or discussed - Ashton Kutcher, Colton Haynes, Chris Carmack, and Channing Tatum are ones that I remember.

I’m interested in this too! I couldn’t fit into the clothes** but I had friends that wore them A LOT, and I remember when I was in college all of  racism came out and their practices “if you’re above a size 6 you can’t wear a skirt to work”. I wasn’t surprised. They were a cultural phenomenon! 

*I am remembering that when I lost a lot of weight in college I bought myself some A&F tank tops and a denim jacket. 

[Dirtybubble]

The stores were poorly lit, it reeked of cheap cologne, and the prices were stupid high.  

I can already tell you whey that company went belly up

[Scarlett45]

5 hours ago, Dirtybubble said:

The stores were poorly lit, it reeked of cheap cologne, and the prices were stupid high.  

I can already tell you whey that company went belly up

And so loud. It was supposed to be like you were in a club they said. 

[peachmangosteen]

This reminded me of somethiong I've always wondered: Is the currently popular Abercrombie an offshoot of A&F or a completely separate company that decided to use that name for some strange reason?

[Scarlett45]

4 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

This reminded me of somethiong I've always wondered: Is the currently popular Abercrombie an offshoot of A&F or a completely separate company that decided to use that name for some strange reason?

No it’s the same company. It’s just an abbreviation. Abercrombie is Abercrombie & Fitch. 

[sugarbaker design]

On 4/11/2022 at 10:28 PM, Scarlett45 said:

And so loud. It was supposed to be like you were in a club they said. 

About 15 years ago, I went into an A&F on 3rd Avenue (I believe) in Manhattan to buy a niece her favorite perfume.  It was a sunny summer afternoon that I plunged into a well of darkness with ambient house music blaring while male and female employees stood there in bikinis and glitter.  I bought my perfume and emerged into a bright sunny afternoon.  I felt hung over.

[MaggieG]

I watched. It was interesting. I honestly didn't know they had this sort of history. Seeing those graphic tees with all the Asian racism was pretty awful.

I would always wander through Abercrombie on my mall days as a teen but never bought anything because they were too expensive. I do think I owned a hoodie that I got on sale. I do agree what the employees were saying about wearing A&F made you cool. I always felt lame when I was with people who wore it or when I shopped there with friends and I didn't buy anything. My 14 year old brother loves them and I have bought him several shirts from there recently. 

[shantown]

Okay, oof - so many thoughts here. Mainly, I was not ready for the unwanted nostalgia this gave me! I also saved up enough money to buy one shirt and then feeling guilty for weeks thinking about how far that money could have gone at Kmart or Penney's. I remember girls hanging the bags in their lockers. The discussions of mall culture and magazine culture - all that was exactly what I grew up with! (So I REALLY didn't need them to explain that mall was "like an online store in real life!" - Big blow there to me thinking I'm still young!)

I liked that they got into the brand's history as being the store for like, rugged outdoorsmen, selling cargo vests and fishing poles and thing. Quite a 180 in audience, but I do think that the idea that it was this classic, longstanding brand helped it sell even with the new branding. They still used "Since 1892" an awful lot.

Hobart Guy's hat got higher and more crooked as the doc went on, LOL

It's interesting that the article from 2006 didn't really catch on until 2013, but it makes sense. In 2006 Facebook is still pretty closed to specific college campuses, you're a couple years out from Twitter. Even in terms of culture (and pop culture) you're a couple years out from Glee and this wave of spotlighting diversity in the media. It's also not surprising that a non-binding decree did nothing. It definitely took a changing cultural mindset to see any sort of downfall. What is considered "cool" changed and A&F was stuck on this 90s preppy look. (Which I think brands like Vineyard Vines and Sperry, etc kind of picked up on and did a slightly updated version of.)

I'm just glad they touched on the LFO's Summer Girls. I was surprised when it wasn't the opening song so I'm glad it got a mention. That brought me straight back to the summer of 99 (?) and everyone buying the CD (at the MALL I might add!).

[peachmangosteen]

19 hours ago, shantown said:

Okay, oof - so many thoughts here. Mainly, I was not ready for the unwanted nostalgia this gave me! I also saved up enough money to buy one shirt and then feeling guilty for weeks thinking about how far that money could have gone at Kmart or Penney's. I remember girls hanging the bags in their lockers. The discussions of mall culture and magazine culture - all that was exactly what I grew up with! (So I REALLY didn't need them to explain that mall was "like an online store in real life!" - Big blow there to me thinking I'm still young!)

I'm just glad they touched on the LFO's Summer Girls. I was surprised when it wasn't the opening song so I'm glad it got a mention. That brought me straight back to the summer of 99 (?) and everyone buying the CD (at the MALL I might add!).

Both of these so much. Although, I kinda liked the nostalgia. Well, I guess it's like half comforting and half makes me wanna run for the hills.

We never had an Abercrombie & Fitch anywhere near me so I really never had access to it and I don't really remember it being huge in my school either, probably for that reason. I'm sure the rich, popular kids were wearing it though.

I looked at their website awhile back because it seems all the youtubers are always talking about their jeans. They're like $100 though so it's a no from me lol.

[merylinkid]

On 4/19/2022 at 10:44 PM, shantown said:

I liked that they got into the brand's history as being the store for like, rugged outdoorsmen, selling cargo vests and fishing poles and thing.

That's what Banana Republic was originally.   Really cool safari type stuff.   Not whatever it became.

The thing that got me was the Wexner connection.   If you followed the Jeffrey Epstein saga, he worked for Wexner for awhile.   It is ALLEGED, he basically embezzled from Wexner and that was the start of his fortune.   So not surprised that A & F had a little underage problem.   

Also their idea of natural, was clearly BLONDE STRAIGHT HAIR, not someone's natural hair style.  

[Scarlett45]

On 4/19/2022 at 9:44 PM, shantown said:

Okay, oof - so many thoughts here. Mainly, I was not ready for the unwanted nostalgia this gave me! I also saved up enough money to buy one shirt and then feeling guilty for weeks thinking about how far that money could have gone at Kmart or Penney's. I remember girls hanging the bags in their lockers. The discussions of mall culture and magazine culture - all that was exactly what I grew up with! (So I REALLY didn't need them to explain that mall was "like an online store in real life!" - Big blow there to me thinking I'm still young!)

I liked that they got into the brand's history as being the store for like, rugged outdoorsmen, selling cargo vests and fishing poles and thing. Quite a 180 in audience, but I do think that the idea that it was this classic, longstanding brand helped it sell even with the new branding. They still used "Since 1892" an awful lot.

Hobart Guy's hat got higher and more crooked as the doc went on, LOL

It's interesting that the article from 2006 didn't really catch on until 2013, but it makes sense. In 2006 Facebook is still pretty closed to specific college campuses, you're a couple years out from Twitter. Even in terms of culture (and pop culture) you're a couple years out from Glee and this wave of spotlighting diversity in the media. It's also not surprising that a non-binding decree did nothing. It definitely took a changing cultural mindset to see any sort of downfall. What is considered "cool" changed and A&F was stuck on this 90s preppy look. (Which I think brands like Vineyard Vines and Sperry, etc kind of picked up on and did a slightly updated version of.)

I'm just glad they touched on the LFO's Summer Girls. I was surprised when it wasn't the opening song so I'm glad it got a mention. That brought me straight back to the summer of 99 (?) and everyone buying the CD (at the MALL I might add!).

I knew about the article in 2006, and we discussed it when I took an employment discrimination class in law school in 2009, but if you weren’t paying attention to these things- it would fly right under the radar. A girl in my college dorm had a job at A&F in 2006, and she was the only black person working the sales floor- she spotted the colorism and racists policies right away but she needed the job and didn’t intend to stay there long. She may have been part of their diversity campaign. 
 

I did NOT remember those graphic tees- so cringe worthy. And the excuse of that a person of Asian descent signed off on that? Really now?
 

I remember how big Abercrombie was, I couldn’t wear the clothes (I was fat and plus size teen wear was seriously lacking in the early 00s) but so many of my classmates/friends did. I went to a small private secular school (class of 2003)- and all of the kids of color noted that A&F had a very WASP focused advertising campaign, even if they enjoyed the clothes.

I personally picked up on all of the homoerotic undertones as a teen and I was pretty sheltered, so I was surprised that grown ass adults didn’t see it- all of the men were half naked (or naked)! So creepy about the head photograph sexually harassing the models- so gross but I am not surprised at all. 

[rwlevin]

I hated A&F when I was a teen. The tops were always too small for me even though the bottoms fit. I owned a pair of jean shorts from them but no shirts. I just couldn’t understand how a clothing company catered to just one body type - curveless. After a while, I avoided it like the plague because the music was always so loud and it was so “exclusive.” I remember I tried to go to the store in I think 2012 on Madison once to buy a friend a bottle of the cologne - $50! - and the guy in the front points to the line which is around the corner of the building.

At least I understand now why Hollister also had half naked guys standing outside. They’re run by the same company.

[EtheltoTillie]

This was such an interesting documentary. I am 30 years older than the target shopping audience of the 90s, so I remembered the mall stores only as an interesting revival of a brand. I remember when Abercrombie was a hunting supply store! We look at these discriminatory practices through a different lens now. But yes this was an awful company!  

Edited April 24, 2022 by EtheltoTillie

[Cinnabon]

On 4/11/2022 at 4:50 PM, Dirtybubble said:

The stores were poorly lit, it reeked of cheap cologne, and the prices were stupid high.  

I can already tell you whey that company went belly up

Didn’t they also play extremely loud music? I never purchased anything from them but I vaguely remember hearing that.

*** oops! I see this has already been discussed. I don’t mind loud music (if it’s music I like, lol) but not necessarily in retail stores. I also hate strong perfumey smells. 

Edited April 24, 2022 by Cinnabon

[BrindaWalsh]

I remember the Abercrombie phase so well.  And I couldn't fit into the clothing.  I didn't fit the look.  And honestly no matter how thin I got, I never would have for their look.  I had boobs, a butt and curves and that was not in during the 90s and early 2000s at all.  But they weren't the only ones.  I remember a store called 5-7-9.  Anybody remember that one?  They literally only sold clothes in a size 5, 7, or 9.  That's it.  

Anyway, I am digressing.  I always knew that something about Abercrombie didn't seem right or feel right.  I assumed it was because I was a chubby, frizzy haired uncool girl and I didn't fit in at the cool kid table.  But watch it kind of clicked things into place.  I remember the t-shirts.  I remember hearing that you had to look a certain way to work there.  I remember the "we don't want you" vibe.  I remember not understanding why all the boys in the ads were barely wearing anything. At 17 years old it never occurred to me how wrong all of that was, that a company was dictating that stuff.  I thought it was just one other thing in the 90s/early 00 years that made me feel like I didn't fit in.  So watching this is a holy shit moment.

I am learning a lot in these Netflix documentaries that growing up as a girl in the 90s was NOT as great as they made it out to be!   Thank you Netflix!

[Sarahsmile416]

My favorite line from this documentary was the woman who said “Walking into an Abercrombie store was like walking into what I hated most about high school” - that was me.  I’m sure I was probably their target audience- blonde, blue eyes, a size 2-4…but I could not stand that place in the 90s.  I never even stepped foot in a store, the smell hit you from the time you stepped in the near vicinity and it would give me a headache.  

I still don’t buy their clothes today but I buy their kids’ clothes for my 8 year old and now I feel kind of sick about it.  I know that it’s better than it was and that’s good but it’s not clear to me that things are actually different from the top on down.  

[memememe76]

The store’s popularity occurred when I was a bit too old. Fashion wise, I avoid clothes where their name or logo is splashed so boldly across their clothes. I hate looking like a billboard.

As a gay man, their advertising certainly was effective. But it’s interesting how those same images are so toxic. I don’t remember any of the controversy (maybe because I am from Canada, I vaguely recall a store in Vancouver but I don’t think I ever stepped foot inside it). The documentary was very well made and seemed fair to me, at least to the people who were interviewed. 

[Scarlett45]

10 hours ago, BrindaWalsh said:

I remember not understanding why all the boys in the ads were barely wearing anything.

That I understood quite well! I was very happy to be looking at those ads as a 15yrs old girl, although I went “okay we need some melanin in here PLEASE.”🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

So naughty I was. I also had a naked photo of Tyson Beckford on my wall (you couldn’t see anything, he was standing in the ocean using his hands to cover himself)- swoons!

 

9 hours ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

My favorite line from this documentary was the woman who said “Walking into an Abercrombie store was like walking into what I hated most about high school” - that was me.  I’m sure I was probably their target audience- blonde, blue eyes, a size 2-4…but I could not stand that place in the 90s.  I never even stepped foot in a store, the smell hit you from the time you stepped in the near vicinity and it would give me a headache.  

I still don’t buy their clothes today but I buy their kids’ clothes for my 8 year old and now I feel kind of sick about it.  I know that it’s better than it was and that’s good but it’s not clear to me that things are actually different from the top on down.  

Thanks for sharing your experience. 

[Snow Apple]

I remember those shirtless guys at the local suburban mall. At first I was confused. Then I was too shy to walk anywhere near the store door. I was afraid they'd say hello to me. LOL

But even as a teenager, I thought those guys looked too young and felt embarrassed for them. The ones I saw didn't look like they knew what they were doing. Just awkwardly standing there as shoppers walked past. Again, they were suburban teens or really young adults.

[Scarlett45]

On 4/29/2022 at 6:40 AM, Snow Apple said:

I remember those shirtless guys at the local suburban mall. At first I was confused. Then I was too shy to walk anywhere near the store door. I was afraid they'd say hello to me. LOL

But even as a teenager, I thought those guys looked too young and felt embarrassed for them. The ones I saw didn't look like they knew what they were doing. Just awkwardly standing there as shoppers walked past. Again, they were suburban teens or really young adults.

At the store in your area the sales associates were actually shirtless? I bet they were freezing! I don’t remember any shirtless sales associates- just the models in the advertisements being nude or nearly nude. My friends all loved to shop there so I went in a lot. 

[Snow Apple]

59 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

At the store in your area the sales associates were actually shirtless? I bet they were freezing! I don’t remember any shirtless sales associates- just the models in the advertisements being nude or nearly nude. My friends all loved to shop there so I went in a lot. 

It was typically two shirtless guys standing outside the store. I guess to lure shoppers inside or to project the A&F image? The employees inside the store (like cashiers) wore shirts. The stores were inside a mall so at least they weren't outdoors at the mercy of the weather.

[Scarlett45]

4 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

It was typically two shirtless guys standing outside the store. I guess to lure shoppers inside or to project the A&F image? The employees inside the store (like cashiers) wore shirts. The stores were inside a mall so at least they weren't outdoors at the mercy of the weather.

Oh wow. I never saw shirtless guys standing outside of the store. Even in doors being shirtless would be so chilly! I hope they weren’t embarrassed or cold. 

[memememe76]

I don’t think you saw them all of the time (and I am sure they had stores in non-mall environments like on NYC), I think it was for grand openings, holidays or big sale days. 

[Hiyo]

The funny thing is, A&F was getting negative attention long before this documentary existed. I mean, here is an article from 2017:

How Abercrombie & Fitch Went From Aspirational To Out-Of-Touch.

This article from last year details how the company was on something of an upswing:

Abercrombie & Fitch is cool again, after years as the most hated retailer in the US, because it caught up to what millennials and Gen Z want.

Even without the controversy, though, A&F would have suffered the way many of it's competitors did as well, for similar reasons:

Why J. Crew’s Vision of Preppy America Failed.

[Sarah 103]

On 4/19/2022 at 10:44 PM, shantown said:

I remember girls hanging the bags in their lockers. 

Same here. There were girls in my class who cut images from the bags or the catalogues to hang up in thier lockers. Slightly on topic/Slightly off topic: Did anyone use the phrase "line your locker" to refer to putting pictures in your locker as decoration? I'm from the northeast U.S I saw the phrase in a news article in the late 1990s/early 2000s and had never heard it before so I thought it might a regional thing. 

For some reason the message wouldn't quote, so for all the people asking about the models, I remember a classmate who went to NYC during a weekend and had her picture taken with the shirtless Abercrombie models standing outside the store. At the time I thought, this is like the Bunnies at the old Playboy Club, only the sexes are reversed; this time it's the men on display for women's enjoyment.