S02.E03: Assimilation

[paigow]

1 hour ago, TVbitch said:

Maybe in the final season Vash can visit and she and Picard he can spend the rest of his days with her.  

Remember that she dumped Picard for Q... Androids never forget...

[ML89]

On 3/17/2022 at 12:02 PM, marihunc said:

think it's gonna be Guinan. If I remember correctly, previously in TNG it was mentioned that El-Aurians are a race of Watchers, plus in Yesterday's Enterprise she was the one that knew something was wrong with the timeline, and even remembered the stuff with Tasha.

She’s hosting a talk show….or working as a medium?

 

On 3/17/2022 at 11:41 PM, Frozendiva said:

Elnor could get by on Earth 2024 if he pretended to be some person being an alien at Comic Con or other sci fi festival

“Botched” is in Los Angeles and they consulted on a guy turning himself into an elf with pointy ears so…

I loved that Seven morphed into Jeri Ryan’s character from Leverage and just conned their way past security.

I wanted to hear the end of Rios’s story. 

I really wanted them to hold onto Seven’s husband and y’know, find out a few facts? Or at least say a few words to him about how garbage his security team was  

 

 

[paigow]

2 hours ago, ML89 said:

“Botched” is in Los Angeles and they consulted on a guy turning himself into an elf with pointy ears so…

Too bad Picard never gave Elnor any Tolkien books

[chaifan]

I don't think the Watcher will be Guinan.  That would require way too much CGI reverse aging for any significant screen time.  And due to that issue, I don't see how it could be anyone from any of the previous ST shows. How would they explain the character looking 20+ years older in 2024 than they did in the 24th/25th century?  I would say they could cast another actress as a younger Guinan, except we've already seen her in the late 1800's (hanging out with Mark Twain), and she looked the same as she did in the 24th century. 

 

[Llywela]

6 hours ago, chaifan said:

I don't think the Watcher will be Guinan.  That would require way too much CGI reverse aging for any significant screen time.  And due to that issue, I don't see how it could be anyone from any of the previous ST shows. How would they explain the character looking 20+ years older in 2024 than they did in the 24th/25th century?  I would say they could cast another actress as a younger Guinan, except we've already seen her in the late 1800's (hanging out with Mark Twain), and she looked the same as she did in the 24th century. 

Back in episode one of this season, Guinan told us (and Picard) that she can adjust her appearance at will, which means that if he meets her again in 2024 and she looks older than she did in the 1800s and in TNG, the implication will be that this was during one of her 'adjusting my age upward' periods to avoid attracting unwarranted attention. I doubt they'd bother explaining again, having already given us that tool for handwaving purposes.

[Zonk]

What really made me laugh was Raffi commenting on 2024 and the social injustice. Saying that it was a miracle that such a society didn't collapse sooner. When last season she was a drug addict who lived in a trailer in the desert and was ranting about Picard and his vineyard, with his heirloom furniture. Heavily implying that she had to live in that shitty trailer, with shitty furniture and it certainly wasn't her choice.

I guess the writers forgot their shitty scifi dystopia from last season real quick.

On 3/17/2022 at 1:02 PM, paigow said:

finally someone remembered that "phasers on KILL" means dissolving

But it doesn't, does it? Disruptors dissolve. Phasers will just kill you, unless I'm totally misremembering. It was always the difference between the Federation and the more sneaky bad guys. If a federation member kills it has to be warrented and should be able to be confirmed afterwards. Plus the family should have a body and all that. There was only that one instance where they melted the possessed guys face off, but that was multiple phasers firing at max setting.

Of course the Confederation would have dissolving weapons.

On 3/17/2022 at 1:14 PM, cambridgeguy said:

So, I'm guessing the writers decided having Elnor walk around in the past wouldn't make sense (too much of a risk to have an alien walking around, especially with the ears) so let's kill him, especially since he can easily be resurrected later.

I think it's more that Elnor is a boring peace of wood and fridging him provides Raffi with angst and motivation. Spock managed just fine in the past with his ears.

On 3/17/2022 at 5:02 PM, marihunc said:

I think it's gonna be Guinan.

I don't think so. She would look TNG-era-young in this time period. They weren't willing to deage her for her short meeting with Picard and made up a stupid story why she looked old. They aren't going to deage her now.

3 hours ago, Llywela said:

Back in episode one of this season, Guinan told us (and Picard) that she can adjust her appearance at will

She didn't. She said she can age if she wants to. No mention of getting younger again or any other alteration of appearence.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Zonk

[millennium]

On 3/19/2022 at 9:03 PM, Delphi said:

I could see them doing a spin off without picard.  I'm not sure exactly what the premise would be

They must travel through time again and do whatever it takes to prevent Star Trek Discovery.

[paigow]

1 hour ago, Zonk said:

But it doesn't, does it? Disruptors dissolve. Phasers will just kill you, unless I'm totally misremembering.

Several TOS episodes and Wrath Of Khan have phaser kills that dissolve. TOS sonic disruptors ( Klingon & Romulan ) always left a body behind. 

[Hiyo]

Quote

They must travel through time again and do whatever it takes to prevent Star Trek Discovery.

If others want to watch and enjoy it as a canon prequel show, more power to them. Me, I'm not a huge fan of it and pretend it takes place in an alternate universe. But to each to their own...

[Zonk]

31 minutes ago, paigow said:

Several TOS episodes and Wrath Of Khan have phaser kills that dissolve.

That might be true for TOS, I'm not that familiar with it, but TNG phasers never dissolved and we are post TNG now. TNG era romulan disruptors dissolved the body. I don't remember what klingon weapons did.

[revbfc]

So they’re in 2024?  Why does it look like our time, and not a post-Eugenics Wars world?  Did the producers retcon the Eugenics Wars?  I know the world would have moved on from events in the 90s, but I’d expect a far different 2020s than what is shown here.

[ML89]

Speaking of Leverage, I forgot to mention Raffi just taking that gun apart after taking down the robber, very Eliot move there.

[dwmarch]

3 hours ago, Zonk said:

TNG phasers never dissolved and we are post TNG now.

Riker vaporized this lady here: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Yuta

I also recall Picard telling Lily in First Contact that she would have vaporized him.

Last season there was also an episode where Seven went on a revenge mission and she had phaser rifles (might not have been Starfleet though, I think they came from La Sirena's weapons locker) with a "ludicrous gibs" setting that exploded people into bloody clouds. I guess that was for anyone who wanted to know what Star Trek by way of Quentin Tarantino was going to look like. Seven must have hit a bump or something.

The TNG episode "The Most Toys" introduced us to the Varon-T disruptor which caused an agonizing disruption. But basically the difference between phasers and disruptors has been whatever the plot calls for. The Jem'Hadar had rifles that included a side of anti-coagulents in one single episode to put Worf in a difficult situation. For the Confederation weapons we do get that line from Jurati about torture devices so it's possible their weapons have two settings: make 'em bleed and make 'em disappear. There's no practical reason why a phaser should punch a big bloody hole in someone but in this universe I guess it's not a bug, it's a feature.

I don't think the watcher is going to be Guinan. The Borg know who Guinan is so I don't think they'd give her a nickname. They'd just tell Picard to go find the one designated Guinan.

[Zonk]

3 hours ago, dwmarch said:

Riker vaporized this lady here: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Yuta

True. But that wasn't how phasers functioned usually. Guess the writers sometimes fucked up even back then (now they fuck up constantly). That scene was badly written in general. There was obviously no protection from beaming, since Riker beamed in, so they could have just beamed her into an arrest cell. Also seems weird that she just shrugs off 2 stun beams and then gets vaporised after Riker cranks the setting only a little more.

Guess altering her cells made her very unstable. /fanwank

3 hours ago, dwmarch said:

But basically the difference between phasers and disruptors has been whatever the plot calls for.

Probably at least partially true. Star Trek has never been super tight with its lore. But at least as far as I remember it remained fairly (obviously not in every instance) consistent on phasers not disintegrating bodies, in the TNG era. I think it was even a plot point once. But that memory is so vague, I might be wrong.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Zonk

[Llywela]

I mean, there was that episode where Starfleet command was infiltrated by aliens and Picard and Riker shot at one of them and his head literally disintegrated so...

As far as I recall, phasers set to kill have pretty much always just done whatever the script calls for them to do. I'm fine with the Confederation phasers disintegrating people, especially since this isn't the regular universe anyway. The bigger question mark is why Elnor was only wounded when he was shot with the same guns, and no one was seen to alter the settings afterward.

Sometimes you just have to handwave minor discrepancies like that for the sake of enjoying the story! There just isn't screentime available to explain all these minor details, which are anyway no more than gears to keep the story moving. Better to accept it and focus on what matters, which is the story being told.

[Zonk]

3 minutes ago, Llywela said:

I mean, there was that episode where Starfleet command was infiltrated by aliens and Picard and Riker shot at one of them and his head literally disintegrated so...

Mentioned that one above.

[Ottis]

Hated this episode. My groan last week, when 2024 was revealed as the date of the timeline change, was rewarded with exactly what I knew that meant: Budget-saving shots in our actual time. That isn't why I watch ST.

On top of that, was the montage of current LA really necessary? We know what LA looks like, show.

I pretty much fast-forwarded through every 2024 scene, knowing they would feature cutesy moments and mistaken identity. Let me guess - the kid I FF past was a cutesy moment, and Rios' arrest was the beginning of mistaken identity? So incredibly predictable.

I did watch the Borg Queen scenes. I like her character, though she became a bit too snooty in this ep. I don't think a Borg queen would be that obviously condescending, smug or annoyed. Waste of energy for a Borg. 

Also, I've wondered about this for a while, but it was really obvious here - is Patrick Stewart having trouble saying his lines? There is a lot of hesitation as well as some slurred words. 

[Llywela]

6 hours ago, Ottis said:

Also, I've wondered about this for a while, but it was really obvious here - is Patrick Stewart having trouble saying his lines? There is a lot of hesitation as well as some slurred words. 

[Ottis]

8 hours ago, Llywela said:

If that's true, I have to assume

Spoiler

his character is going to die during the series, given how it has progressed.

 

[Llywela]

5 minutes ago, Ottis said:

If that's true, I have to assume

  Hide contents

his character is going to die during the series, given how it has progressed.

 

Not at all. It just means that he is old and worried and facing yet another fight against impossible odds, and that is taking a physical toll, a very natural reaction to the circumstances in which he finds himself and the burden of responsibility beneath which he is labouring. I mean, just look at everything he's been through in the first three episodes alone. You would be looking and sounding a bit wobbly too at this point! Although having said that, he sounds okay to me - hugely worried about what to do for the best, yes, that's why he's hesitant, but otherwise fine. I'm not noticing any slurring, and he certainly doesn't sound at death's door! He's already died on-screen once. They're unlikely to go there again so soon, especially not with another season still to go after this one.

(I don't think you have to spoiler tag your own wild speculation that isn't based on any actual spoilers. It isn't a spoiler if it's just you taking a massive leap in the dark)

Edited March 23, 2022 by Llywela

[chaifan]

If you watch Will Wheaton's The Ready Room, he interviews Patrick Stewart on the first episode of this season.  Stewart sounds much clearer in this interview than Picard sounds in the show, so I have to assume his dialect/inflection in Picard is, well, acting.  Picard has at least a decade on Stewart, so it makes sense he's playing him "older" than he really is. 

 

[dwmarch]

51 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Picard has at least a decade on Stewart, so it makes sense he's playing him "older" than he really is.

I guess that synth body doesn't actually do much which is a weird design choice, especially in the Confederation timeline.

[paigow]

32 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

I guess that synth body doesn't actually do much which is a weird design choice, especially in the Confederation timeline.

Maybe the Soong bloodline was snuffed out in 2024 and the synth body is breaking down slowly...

[RedHawk]

On 3/17/2022 at 11:41 PM, Frozendiva said:

Rios, of course, comes across the feisty young doctor. Which is probably already screwing up the timeline. Plus having to get his communicator/badge back.

Feisty young do-gooder doctor will just have to die when a taxi hits her right in front of Rios. Elnor will be there to comfort him.

Edited March 30, 2022 by RedHawk

[Chaos Theory]

Patrick Stewart is not a young man anymore.   A three season series may just have been a way to give a popular actor and character one last adventure.   In all honesty it wouldn’t  surprise me if he sacrifices himself for the fate of the universe or they could simply write Picard finally coming to peace with the choices he made all his life.     This doesn’t need to go on forever.   Three seasons is perfect to tell the story.    And there are plenty of characters built in that could build their own stories after.  

[benteen]

On 3/21/2022 at 1:48 AM, Zonk said:

What really made me laugh was Raffi commenting on 2024 and the social injustice. Saying that it was a miracle that such a society didn't collapse sooner. When last season she was a drug addict who lived in a trailer in the desert and was ranting about Picard and his vineyard, with his heirloom furniture. Heavily implying that she had to live in that shitty trailer, with shitty furniture and it certainly wasn't her choice.

I guess the writers forgot their shitty scifi dystopia from last season real quick.

This 1000%. The show's attempts to make their Star Trek into BSG and Picard of all people into a one percenter were pathetic.

When it comes to Raffi rants, I hated her trashing Picard after Elinor's death and I didn't like what Juarti said about him either. I've hated this shows tendency to have characters trash Picard and for him to just take it. Hero worship isn't a great thing but this is not appealing. It goes with a criticism of this show I've said before. It often feels like I'm watching Patrick Stewart play Picard as opposed to watching Picard on-screen.

Edited March 30, 2022 by benteen

[marinw]

1 hour ago, RedHawk said:

Feisty young do-gooder doctor will just have to die when a taxi hits her right in front of Rios. Elnor will be there to comfort him

But not before Rios becomes his own ancestor. It happened on Dark.

[Frozendiva]

3 hours ago, RedHawk said:

Feisty young do-gooder doctor will just have to die when a taxi hits her right in front of Rios. Elnor will be there to comfort him.

Not another Edith Keeler.

[paigow]

3 hours ago, Frozendiva said:

Not another Edith Keeler.

 

6 hours ago, RedHawk said:

Feisty young do-gooder doctor will just have to die when a taxi hits her right in front of Rios.

The twist will be Seven is driving and knows that Doc must die...