S04.E08: How Do You Get to Carnegie Hall?

[janie jones]

On 3/12/2022 at 4:28 PM, CharethCutestory said:

I got worried for a moment when he was standing there clearly angry with Midge, that he was going to say something cliche like, "You haven't returned any of my calls."

I was worried he was going to tell her that he loved her. (Which is something I believe he communicated, albeit unintentionally, but I was afraid he was going to say it.)

On 3/12/2022 at 6:40 PM, AuntieMame said:

You weren’t the only one who melted with Lenny and Midge in the blue hotel room @Sarah 103. It made me remember what a primal attraction is like. I will definitely be looking for Luke Kirby’s other work. Not only did he look at her with the perfect look of desire, he proved his love for her as a person by calling her out on her professional cowardice.

I have never wanted these two to get together (I was so glad they didn't when they were at his other hotel room when she was on tour with Shy), but once he looked at her, I was like, "welp, they're doing it." I'm glad they're not going to be a couple, though.

On 3/13/2022 at 1:48 AM, Aulty said:

I was initially going by still very leafy park vs. the snow storm in late October (all the Halloween references) and thought that there were at least a couple of months between the two encounters. But there actually is a temporal reference in the episode: At the Jacky Kennedy gig she mentions the hookup was 'a couple of weeks ago'.  Plus at a couple of days for the Moishe drama, assuming it was right after, should put at least create a 15 day gap. Hah. 😉

Was Lenny's show supposed to be the day after they hooked up? Because it seemed like that was supposed to be election day, which was on November 8. But then again, when looking up the date of election day 1960, I also found the Lenny Bruce performed at Carnegie Hall during a snowstorm on February 4, 1961, so who knows what the timeline is here.

On 3/13/2022 at 12:07 PM, Sarah 103 said:

I had a different take on Mei in that scene. I agree with you that has zero intention of becoming a wife and stepmother. I think she has no idea how to tell them she is going to have an abortion. It would be illegal, but based on all of her medical connections, it would be as safe as possible under the circumstances.

Does Mei care about illegal? Her parents are apparently quite important in the Chinese mafia. To that end, she probably already knows a physician who could do the abortion.

On 3/13/2022 at 3:11 PM, Sarah 103 said:

Probably. I don't know what might go wrong fairly early in a pregnancy that could cause the end of the pregngancy, but her cover story would be something like that. 

First trimester miscarriages are common enough that women are discouraged from telling anyone they're pregnant until they're in the second trimester. (Which has the unfortunate result of people not being aware of how common they are.) It wouldn't be unrealistic for Mei to have a miscarriage. But I'd prefer her deciding to have an abortion.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, janie jones said:

Does Mei care about illegal? Her parents are apparently quite important in the Chinese mafia. To that end, she probably already knows a physician who could do the abortion.

Good point--that I don't think any of the rest of us considered. 
I wonder if the Palladinos gave this option serious thought. It's the most logical to me--but maybe I'm unaware of some aspect of customs that would prevent this.
Of course, illegal Chinese Mafia abortion doesn't exactly scream safe practices.

[gorgy]

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

"Trickery" was part of a Jeopardy! clue this past week. 
Perhaps you are a watcher and the term snuck into your psyche through osmosis? 🤔😉

 

 

 

That may very well have been possible. I'm usually cleaning while Jeopardy is on in the background

[Sarah 103]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Of course, illegal Chinese Mafia abortion doesn't exactly scream safe practices.

As far as I am aware, in 1960 there were no states that would legally permit a single/unmarried woman to have an abortion. If Mei has an abortion in the U.S, it would be illegal. For the exact reason you pointed out, using her medical school connections seems like the safer way to go.  

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Sarah 103

[maggiemae]

The smoldering intimacy between Midge and Lenny was incredible.

Especially since they both knew it could not be more. 

Joel and Mei have none of that.

I have no idea what Milo had to do with any of this. Perhaps just a fling...but nothing personal or intimate about it. 

[Nicola]

Abe's obituary pointed out the enormous differences between him and Moishe, and he might have been realizing it while he read it. Like a lot of angry socialists, Abe's money and intellectual bubble has allowed him to complain, write nasty theater reviews, set federal buildings on fire, blow up his career on a whim, and stand around fulminating with a bunch of people having 100% the same opinions while making childish graffiti on pictures of Nixon. That was the whole of his contributions to humanity: A whole lot of tearing down.

But Moishe had to scratch his way up, and throughout he actually helped struggling people in a very tangible way. Not only did he save people from the Holocaust, he built a business, employed people, invented shit, and took care of his family--even his ex-in laws who looked down their noses at him while sitting at his very table. Moishe does while Abe rages. 

I wonder if Abe might act more like the only adult in the room next season. 

Edited March 21, 2022 by Nicola

[whiporee]

I’m surprised so many people doubt Lennys confrontation with Midge. She wasn’t screwing up her plan by not doing Tony Bennett — she’s afraid of doing Bennet and then having it taken away again.  She’s scared, and when she gets scared she retreats to places she can control.  She can control the burlesque club. She could control the dinner parties she was paid to attend. When confronted with something bad, she doesn’t push forward; she retreats and lies in wait.

 

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, Nicola said:

Abe's obituary pointed out the enormous differences between him and Moishe, and he might have been realizing it while he read it. Like a lot of angry socialists, Abe's money and intellectual bubble has allowed him to complain, write nasty theater reviews, set federal buildings on fire, blow up his career on a whim, and stand around fulminating with a bunch of people having 100% the same opinions, making childish graffiti on pictures of Nixon. That was the whole of his contributions to humanity.

But Moishe had to scratch his way up. Not only did he save people from the Holocaust, he built a business, employed people, invented shit, and took care of his family--even his ex-in laws who looked down their noses at him while sitting at his very table. Moishe does while Abe rages.

I wonder if Abe might act more like the only adult in the room next season. 

I'm mainly quoting this👆  post because I love it. 
I am pretty entrenched in my belief that people never really change IRL, but the lines they gave Abe in this episode and Tony Shaloub's delivery of those lines are just about what it would take for me to believe that people can change.
Plus, did y'all see Tony Shaloub's eyes get red with real tears when he was sharing the obituary with Moishe? 

In contrast, Susie miraculously giving up gambling just because Joel said so was not even remotely believable. Even if this was the last episode of the series instead of being the last episode of the penultimate season, I would forever believe that Susie went back to gambling. 

Edited March 20, 2022 by shapeshifter

[DrSpaceman73]

On 3/17/2022 at 2:56 PM, Blakeston said:

A sitcom having roughly eight hours of content in a season is pretty good nowadays.

It's common for half-hour sitcoms to have only 10 episodes or so.

Except it's not a sitcom, but that's another discussion. 

I Have no problem with it being 8 episodes. 8 hours or more for a season is good nowadays. 

Lenny telling off Midge and telling her to get out there and work was the highlight of the season.  She wants her typical middle class life undisrupted with no sacrifice and ability to say and work where she wants and be successful.  Very definition of entitled. 

[Lake Erie Lass]

Abe was a complete and total asshole this season; more so than usual. I could feel my blood  boil as I watched the scenes featuring him. I agree that reading Moishe’s obituary seemed to generate an epiphany within him that finally allowed him to see the (previously unacknowledged) differences between the two men. When he compared Moishe’s totality of life choices and experiences to his own, his was seriously lacking in both grace and humanity. Abe has been selfish in the extreme, from his actions with the bellboy at the cottage in the Catskills, to leaving his teaching career, to taking credit for buying Midge’s apartment, to outing his friend to the FBI, to mooching off his daughter for financial support. His first check at The Voice was minuscule, but now he’s going to pay Imogene to type for him? How lazy can one man be? Will he stiff her, too? Expect her to type for him for free? He’s smug, selfish, irresponsible, and childish in the extreme. I can only hope that we see some long-term personality growth in the final season.

[maggiemae]

Let alone so dense to not realize he did not support his family on his income. It was his wife's trust fund.

 

[retrograde]

On 3/18/2022 at 2:35 PM, janie jones said:

Was Lenny's show supposed to be the day after they hooked up? Because it seemed like that was supposed to be election day, which was on November 8. But then again, when looking up the date of election day 1960, I also found the Lenny Bruce performed at Carnegie Hall during a snowstorm on February 4, 1961, so who knows what the timeline is here.

I also wondered about the timeline. I don't think it can be the next day, because she has had time to reject the Tony Bennett gig and for him to have asked around about why she rejected it -- and he also refers to the hook up as "that night," which would be a weird thing to say the very next day. But it has to have been less than a week later, because he said he was only staying at the hotel for four days. February would have made more sense for the weather, but I agree this all seems to be happening around election day, and they are just messing with the real timeline of the Carnegie Hall show. 

[shapeshifter]

14 minutes ago, maggiemae said:

Let alone so dense to not realize he did not support his family on his income. It was his wife's trust fund.

On some level Abe was always aware that it was Rose’s trust fund as much as the faculty housing that allowed them a lavish lifestyle, just as on some level Abe and Rose know they are now being supported by Midge. Right?

[maggiemae]

I don't think he ever considered any of it.

 

[Clanstarling]

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

On some level Abe was always aware that it was Rose’s trust fund as much as the faculty housing that allowed them a lavish lifestyle, just as on some level Abe and Rose know they are now being supported by Midge. Right?

One would hope. But people (even in real life) are very good at lying to themselves and shutting that information behind a solid wall.

[Aloeonatable]

On 3/12/2022 at 1:11 PM, debraran said:

didn't want it to end. I loved their scenes, but I hate knowing his end...but it still is a great ride. Their chemistry beats Joel or Ben or the married guy from TIU. ; )  Smouldering. I loved how Rose is starting what will be hopefully some funny "war" scenes next year and Abe's obit was perfect.

The series has built up Lenny's and Midge's relationship for 4 years now, so it isn't any wonder that she would have the better chemistry with him. Ben was brief, and handsome man was 4 minutes wasted. 

[Carolina Girl]

On 3/16/2022 at 3:58 PM, luvthepros said:

Others have said same, myself included. Agree......BS.

I think even Joel said flat out to Susie a few episodes earlier - that if she needed to bring someone to see Midge perform, he'd turn over the stage to her.

 

[Carolina Girl]

On 3/19/2022 at 6:38 PM, shapeshifter said:

I'm mainly quoting this👆  post because I love it. 

Please allow me to second that emotion....

[desertflower]

Here’s an article from the Carnegie website about Lenny Bruce’s show. Sounds like they portrayed it pretty accurately, (minus Midge, of course), with the snowstorm and everything.  I also listened to the intro and it’s pretty much the same as they did on the show. Luke Kirby really does nail his voice and inflections. 
https://www.carnegiehall.org/Explore/Articles/2020/04/27/Lenny-Bruce-at-Carnegie-Hall

[Clanstarling]

17 hours ago, desertflower said:

Here’s an article from the Carnegie website about Lenny Bruce’s show. Sounds like they portrayed it pretty accurately, (minus Midge, of course), with the snowstorm and everything.  I also listened to the intro and it’s pretty much the same as they did on the show. Luke Kirby really does nail his voice and inflections. 
https://www.carnegiehall.org/Explore/Articles/2020/04/27/Lenny-Bruce-at-Carnegie-Hall

I watched some of it on YouTube. Kirby really did get him down. I'm not a particular fan of Lenny Bruce, though I admired him and was sorry how it all ended.