Mrs. Astor Approves. The Real Gilded Age

[Haleth]

A topic to discuss the history, characters, and events of the real Gilded Age. 

[Haleth]

I’m reading a book called A Season of Splendor by Greg King about the Gilded Age in NY. It starts with bios of the prominent families and I learned something interesting early on. Anderson Cooper’s great grandmother, Alice Claypool Gwynne Vanderbilt was a direct descendent of Oliver Cromwell. Interesting family. And I haven’t even gotten to Alva yet. 

[JenE4]

Interesting article on Ward McAllister.  Though he controlled the 400 society list—he had no money of his own! 
https://slate.com/culture/2022/02/gilded-age-hbo-nathan-lane-ward-mcallister.html

[Arynm]

On 2/20/2022 at 7:57 AM, Haleth said:

I’m reading a book called A Season of Splendor by Greg King about the Gilded Age in NY. It starts with bios of the prominent families

I am also reading this book! It is chock full of info about just about everything.

I just got to the part that I think was based on Mrs. Chamberlain. The real Gilded age counterpart was named Arabella Huntington and the story is pretty much exactly like it's portrayed on the show. The art that she and her husband collected is now housed in the Huntington Library in CA.

[Atlanta]

I've learned to not read any Edith Wharton unless I want to be depressed.  I know there are 'realist' authors, but in her world, being 'realist' always means a tragic outcome. Yes, I minored in English lit.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Atlanta

[Haleth]

7 hours ago, Arynm said:

 

I just got to the part that I think was based on Mrs. Chamberlain. The real Gilded age counterpart was named Arabella Huntington and the story is pretty much exactly like it's portrayed on the show. The art that she and her husband collected is now housed in the Huntington Library in CA.

I was going to add this last night but didn't get to it.  Mrs Chamberlain was surely based on Arabella Huntington.

I was also going to add a comment about Ward McCallister eventually losing his position and being replaced as an influencer by a truly horrible person named Henry Lehr.  He wooed a young, beautiful heiress and married her, only to tell her on their wedding night that he wanted nothing to do with her, only her bank account.  He was gay.  She was Catholic and didn't want the scandal of divorce so they remained married for 28 loveless years.  For a while he was the darling of the 400.  I wonder if Fellowes is going to use this as a basis for an Oscar/Gladys marriage?

[Hiyo]

Apparently, his full speech to her was:

"In public I will be to you everything that a most devoted husband should be to his wife. You shall never complain of my conduct in this respect. I will give you courtesy, respect and apparently devotion. But you must expect nothing more from me. When we are alone I do not intend to keep up the miserable pretense, the farce of love and sentiment. Our marriage will never be a marriage in anything but in name. I do not love you. I can never love you. I can school myself to be polite to you but that is all. The less we see of one another except in the presence of others, the better."

 

[Hiyo]

Quote

I wonder if Fellowes is going to use this as a basis for an Oscar/Gladys marriage?

Possibly, though in the case you mentioned, the heiress was also a widow.

 

[RachelKM]

10 hours ago, Haleth said:

I wonder if Fellowes is going to use this as a basis for an Oscar/Gladys marriage?

Oscar is a narcissistic tool but he hasn't yet appeared cruel. So I hope he doesn't intend to be that unfeeling to his eventual wife.*  The way he described his plans to Adams seemed as if he's capable a feigning some legitimate interest in women and intends for he and his wife to get along well enough.  I'm sure if his wife pressed the issue, he would set her down. But I'm struggling to imagine him making such a cold speech on his wedding night unless he marries someone else out of of necessity whom he truly doesn't even like. He seems to think Gladys is, at least, a sweet child. 

 

*I'm reasonably certain Oscar will not marry Gladys unless Fellowes intends to kill him off early.  Fellowes doesn't like mean people or schemers to prosper long-term in his shows. Oscar's death would be the only avenue of freedom for his wife, whomever she is.  Divorce could get you excised from society too.

Edited March 2, 2022 by RachelKM

[arty]

Here is a good article to check out for those who enjoy podcasts. It recommends several podcasts that can serve as a primer for this show. I've listened to a couple of the recommendations already, and topics that this show has touched upon including Ward McAllister and the creation of the 400; the opening of the Metropolitan Opera House; and The Mrs. Astor herself have all been covered. I've enjoyed the podcasts I've listened to so far.

[Haleth]

I was surprised to read that in her later years Mrs Astor Alva Vanderbilt became quite the Suffragette. As she became disgusted by new money’s increasingly ostentatious and tasteless behavior she turned her attention to getting women the right to vote. Pretty radical!

Edited March 15, 2022 by Haleth

[Brn2bwild]

On 3/11/2022 at 6:13 AM, Haleth said:

I was surprised to read that in her later years Mrs Astor became quite the Suffragette. As she became disgusted by new money’s increasingly ostentatious and tasteless behavior she turned her attention to getting women the right to vote. Pretty radical!

So did Alva Vanderbilt, mother of Consuelo.  What was it about women's suffrage that made these suffocating society matrons say: "This feels like a natural fit.  Sign me up."? 

[Haleth]

6 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

So did Alva Vanderbilt, mother of Consuelo.  What was it about women's suffrage that made these suffocating society matrons say: "This feels like a natural fit.  Sign me up."? 

Omigosh, that's who I meant to say.  Duh me.  Thanks for the correction.

[izabella]

On 3/14/2022 at 11:42 PM, Brn2bwild said:

So did Alva Vanderbilt, mother of Consuelo.  What was it about women's suffrage that made these suffocating society matrons say: "This feels like a natural fit.  Sign me up."? 

I think it's because they were women who sought control and power.  They knew if they wanted real power, they needed to be able to vote and have a voice in government.

[Affogato]

On 3/15/2022 at 12:42 AM, Brn2bwild said:

So did Alva Vanderbilt, mother of Consuelo.  What was it about women's suffrage that made these suffocating society matrons say: "This feels like a natural fit.  Sign me up."? 

The sexes were socially dimorphic  in this group (not a scientific term, just looking for descriptor) and they tried to have successful satisfying lives, playing by the rules.
They lived in the woman’s sphere, mansging households and giving parties, and it ultimately proved unsatisfying and destrucive to their relationships as well. 
they had enough. 

Edited March 19, 2022 by Affogato

[MerBearHou]

Not sure where to put this, but I was intrigued to know more about Mrs. Astor and Mrs. Vanderbilt and the Gilded Age.  Came across a recommendation for a novel called “The Social Graces” by Renee Rosen.  It is a wonderful, full imagining of the Astors and Vanderbilts using facts in their lives.  I enjoyed it very much and of course, being a book, it can delve much more deeply into their relationships (marriages, children, friendships, staff, Old and New Money) and the world in which they live — both in NYC and Newport.  Really recommend it if you’re interested in more about these families, their social group (McAllister, Fish, Belmont, etc) and that unique time period.  

Edited March 21, 2022 by MerBearHou

[Roseanna]

I read a memoir of Sally Salminen who immigrated in the 1930ies and worked as domestic worker in various families om New York. Even after decades she was really annoyed by rich people who dropped tobacco ashes all around and by women who dropped their underwear on the floor. (So Bertha's servants *were* probably furious for extra work when she had thrown her breakfast from her tray.)

In general, Sally Salminen thought it was odd that although the US had first become democracy, Americans were so undemocratic. The running boy might become a millionaire but before he did, he was void.  

The only exception Salminen met was an old impoverished lady whose ancestor had come in Mayflower: she had ultra-reactionary opinions but treated her servant as a human being.  

Luckily Sally Salminen's first novel won a literary competition, so she could leave the US and become a full-time writer.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Roseanna
added two words and took one word away