S01.E05: Charity Has Two Functions

[Haleth]

2 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Also generally, if a man had created a company, what will happen to it when he will die? If he has a able son who will continue his work, his work will stay. But if his son isn't able, he will destroys his father's work.

Presumably the board of directors would not let that happen. 

[Hiyo]

Quote

If Bertha wants a duke in Britain, she isn't satisfied with anything less that the very top in NYC. 

We know that, most of us have speculated that for quite a while now.

[OtterMommy]

Please remember that any discussion of other Julian Fellowes shows needs to go into this thread.  Posts discussion Downton Abbey (or any other Fellowes show) have been and will be removed from the episode threads.

[BabyBella94]

It's funny how Mrs.Astor's husband was somewhat new money but yet she looked down on everyone else. 

[Roseanna]

10 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Sure there were plenty of men who wanted sex before marriage without being villains, but Raikes really doesn't have any good excuse for that, knowing her situation.

If a couple is "madly in love", they hardly think at all. It's rather a question if there is an opportunity.  

[Roseanna]

10 hours ago, Haleth said:

Presumably the board of directors would not let that happen. 

Has he any? That man we have seen with him seems rather an assistant. He doesn't consult with him or anybody else, he just gives orders. 

If he has a majority of stocks and banks don't refuse to lend him money, he can do just what we wants. Even if he owns only a minority, his son has 10-20 years to qualify for the job. 

[sistermagpie]

9 hours ago, Roseanna said:

If a couple is "madly in love", they hardly think at all. It's rather a question if there is an opportunity.  

Nohing about either of their demeanors suggested to me that they're so madly in love they just can't keep it in their pants. Raikes was pretty open about planning all of their encounters, wasn't he? If he cares about her he should, imo, absolutely be considering this stuff. When he met her she was alone and in need of help and her situation isn't all that much more secure now. It's not like he's just thoughtless and clueless like Marian dragging Peggy into a store.

[Roseanna]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Nohing about either of their demeanors suggested to me that they're so madly in love they just can't keep it in their pants. Raikes was pretty open about planning all of their encounters, wasn't he? If he cares about her he should, imo, absolutely be considering this stuff. When he met her she was alone and in need of help and her situation isn't all that much more secure now. It's not like he's just thoughtless and clueless like Marian dragging Peggy into a store.

Yes, Raikes arranged the hotel for the night and came along. 

Yet, Marian gives messages of two kind. Instead of saying "good night", she begins a conversation and when Raikes says "a man can hope", she answers that he can't, but when he asks if she is hurt, she says no, just surprised. In short, she encourages him.   

[sistermagpie]

16 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Yes, Raikes arranged the hotel for the night and came along. 

Yet, Marian gives messages of two kind. Instead of saying "good night", she begins a conversation and when Raikes says "a man can hope", she answers that he can't, but when he asks if she is hurt, she says no, just surprised. In short, she encourages him.   

Sure, but nobody's denying that she's encouraging him.

[KarenX]

Maybe Marian isn’t personally cut out for a life among the 400. I am not saying that as a slight. Maybe “plenty of money” and a nice stable life is what she actually wants.

Maybe she and Bertha are the narrative foils here. Bertha wants it but has to work so hard for it. Marian has it through no effort and doesn’t care about it at all. She may get rid of it and be happy. Bertha may get it and be miserable. A morality tale.

[Rosebud1970]

Zippers!

Once seen, cannot be unseen. For the first time, seeing the backs of some of the costumes, I noticed what appeared to be zippers. Discreet zippers, but zippers nonetheless. Took me out of the episode.

Zippers were not used in clothing until 1925. I can understand why they would have used them in crafting the costumes for this show, but did they have to show them to us?

[Roseanna]

16 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Nohing about either of their demeanors suggested to me that they're so madly in love they just can't keep it in their pants. Raikes was pretty open about planning all of their encounters, wasn't he? If he cares about her he should, imo, absolutely be considering this stuff. When he met her she was alone and in need of help and her situation isn't all that much more secure now. It's not like he's just thoughtless and clueless like Marian dragging Peggy into a store.

On the hand, as somebody said earlier, he has been honest with her. Even before the door, he admitted that "a man can hope". Wouldn't a callous seducer lied? 

[sistermagpie]

6 hours ago, Roseanna said:

On the hand, as somebody said earlier, he has been honest with her. Even before the door, he admitted that "a man can hope". Wouldn't a callous seducer lied? 

Some would, some wouldn't, imo. For me, when I imagine him being a bad choice in the end, it's not because I think he's got villainous plans and strategies that would lead him to lie that much. More like he just wants what he wants and that's what he's focused on and he hasn't given much thought to her situation. He can be totally honest and kind of a cad at the same time. That would probably work better, in fact. It would fit more with his character, and it's not really who you imagine from Agnes's ideas about him--so she's not completely right, but Marian's stubborn insistance that she's completely wrong (sort of like with her father) isn't right either.

[JasonCC]

My theory is that Gladys (not TF the actress) is 19/20 but Bertha is shaving a couple years off her age in order to have her coming out with a big, upper-crust turnout. 

[Scarlett45]

On 2/23/2022 at 9:53 PM, Hotellanai said:

The Upper Classes are all about the semblance of propriety and "niceness."  This IS the North and yes, Black people who probably were never enslaved will walk amongst them.  The Upper Class Whites are fine with that because there are SO FEW Black people and very few Black people of means (dressed correctly and able to mix socially).  Honestly, we are only 13.6% of the total US population TODAY!  I have met many parents of my schoolmates while growing up.  While my parents fit in with the Upper Classes, I was frequently the only one or one of two at social gatherings and of course at (private, nonsectarian) school.  It was the same in (private) college.  The parents and children seem to have the freedom to accept you as they would anyone else.  Why?  Because Black people (and especially ones with money) are not a threat - there just aren't that many people like me in those spaces. 

Later in life, the only racism I encountered personally came from people with very "new" money or in lower classes.  It sounds weird to talk about in 2022, but it's true.  I DID threaten these types of people for some reason and they had not been raised with the same social customs as the Upper Classes (and old moneyed).  So, it is not odd that Peggy isn't being insulted (or grossly threatened) to her face.  Now, if she were in the Midwest or South, she might need to be chaperoned because rapes were a distinct problem for Black women of some means after slavery until the 1930s (documented in newspapers and books).  I think this might be why the Scotts want Peggy safely married and around her own environment.  Even today, Black parents of all stripes ALWAYS keep a watchful eye out for their children.  That is one of the major reasons we have survived.

I have had a similar upbringing to yours and I agree with you. 

[phoenics]

On 2/23/2022 at 10:53 PM, Hotellanai said:

The Upper Classes are all about the semblance of propriety and "niceness."  This IS the North and yes, Black people who probably were never enslaved will walk amongst them.  The Upper Class Whites are fine with that because there are SO FEW Black people and very few Black people of means (dressed correctly and able to mix socially).  Honestly, we are only 13.6% of the total US population TODAY!  I have met many parents of my schoolmates while growing up.  While my parents fit in with the Upper Classes, I was frequently the only one or one of two at social gatherings and of course at (private, nonsectarian) school.  It was the same in (private) college.  The parents and children seem to have the freedom to accept you as they would anyone else.  Why?  Because Black people (and especially ones with money) are not a threat - there just aren't that many people like me in those spaces. 

Later in life, the only racism I encountered personally came from people with very "new" money or in lower classes.  It sounds weird to talk about in 2022, but it's true.  I DID threaten these types of people for some reason and they had not been raised with the same social customs as the Upper Classes (and old moneyed).  So, it is not odd that Peggy isn't being insulted (or grossly threatened) to her face.  Now, if she were in the Midwest or South, she might need to be chaperoned because rapes were a distinct problem for Black women of some means after slavery until the 1930s (documented in newspapers and books).  I think this might be why the Scotts want Peggy safely married and around her own environment.  Even today, Black parents of all stripes ALWAYS keep a watchful eye out for their children.  That is one of the major reasons we have survived.

It is totally understandable that the upper crust of NY (the old money and new money) would actually take Agnes' view toward Peggy.  Many HBCUs - including my Alma Mater, Spelman - were heavily funded by these wealthy families - Spelman was named for John D. Rockefeller's wife.

This is one aspect of history the show has gotten 10000% right.

But again - Peggy is seen by Agnes as more of a "pet" she's helping than a "threat".  If Peggy were to fall in love with Oscar, Agnes would turn on her in a heartbeat.

[SomeTameGazelle]

 

On 2/22/2022 at 1:11 PM, iMonrey said:

 Once again, we get some tacked-on, half-baked subplot for one of the servants. These one-and-done peripherals feel like pointless distractions. Nothing ever comes from them. Ten bucks says we never see Mrs. Armstrong's mother again. 

Since Armstrong's mother clearly needs full-time care, I wonder whether it is really realistic that Armstrong would stay in a job where she lives in and can only get to her mother's on her day off. Her mother was portrayed as extremely difficult and petulant but if Armstrong considers it her duty to look after her are the salary and benefits of domestic service really enough to make it better than a job where she could tend to her mother daily? 

On 2/22/2022 at 1:30 PM, Affogato said:

I’m pretty sure when you come out you are allowed different hair styles and clothing.  Having her hair in a childish do would be because she is still a child. 
 

One of the plots is Bertha is not letting her come out and she is tired of it. 

Even though she's not out, I can’t believe Gladys wouldn't be trying to wear her hair up even if she had to take it down around her mother.  Although I have to say that I didn't I haven't seen any behavior in Gladys that seems to justify Archie's admiration of her intelligence. 

On 2/26/2022 at 2:06 AM, Hiyo said:

I think it's implied that if her daughter is a Duchess, her grandson will be a Duke as well.

Not if that Duke's first wife already bore him an heir.  Better in that case to try to marry the heir.

On 2/28/2022 at 3:05 PM, sistermagpie said:

Sure, but nobody's denying that she's encouraging him.

 She discouraged him from writing to her in the 1st episode when she told him to leave her at the train station. Based on where they are now I can't understand why we had that little distraction of her trying to put him off. 

[Hiyo]

Quote

Not if that Duke's first wife already bore him an heir.  Better in that case to try to marry the heir.

And how often did that happen? I think most of these women were marrying their daughters off to the heirs or peers who had yet to produce any sons, so it's not an issue.

[Camera One]

Seeing the cranky housekeeper's even crankier mother's living conditions was sort of interesting.  Not that excuses her for being such a pill.

They're clearly not be subtle about not wanting us to feel for Mrs. Morris at all.  

I think my favorite character is getting to be Aurora Fane as well.  I liked her reaction when Marian piped up that she's on speaking turns with Mrs. Chamberlain.

Mr. Russell really laid it on thick with that ultimatum to that boy they invited to dinner.  Threatening to destroy his career prospects?  

I've mostly found Mr. Raikes to be boring and overbearing, but he crossed the line to unlikeable with kissing her in the hallway and insinuating they go into the room together?  I don't get when Marian started falling for him.  Seemed like it began when her aunt forbid her from seeing him.

Not looking forward to the unholy alliance between the wicked lady's maid and Agnes' slimy son.