Believe - General Discussion

[Tara Ariano]

The series premiere of a drama about a young girl (Johnny Sequoyah) with supernatural gifts and the wrongly imprisoned inmate (Jake McLaughlin) assigned to protect her. Executive producers include J.J. Abrams.

[David T. Cole]

I watched the pilot. I am not a believer. Bad Robot, please take a deep breath and stop pooping out high concept shows with half-assed execution.

[formerlyfreedom]

This pilot has it's moments. I actually really like the two leads, and I think they have good chemistry. But there is a lot of drag in the storytelling. Can't put my finger on what exactly, but again, pilots are hard (see; Resurrection).

I'll probably hang in there for a few more episodes, but I'm not sure if this is going to be my cup of tea. And since it's going to be on opposite of Resurrection, it just may be the "Battle of the Really Big Idea Shows that Aren't Under The Dome and Are Hoping To Get The Second Season Pick Up, Too." Too many words?

[Tara Ariano]

Here's what I wrote about it!

[Lisin]

So basically this is like Firestarter mixed with Dead Zone? And every week we're going to see someone else who has a decision to make or something and Bo is going to help them and we're all going to learn something? And once and a while we'll glimpse the overarching mystery and lines between good and bad will blur but we'll never really find any real answers? Put me down for a big NOPE.

[ApathyMonger]

So basically this is like Firestarter mixed with Dead Zone? And every week we're going to see someone else who has a decision to make or something and Bo is going to help them and we're all going to learn something? And once and a while we'll glimpse the overarching mystery and lines between good and bad will blur but we'll never really find any real answers? Put me down for a big NOPE.

I think the original plan was for it to be more serialized, but they decided to switch to a case-of-the-week thing. I liked the pilot okay, but when I heard they were going that route I checked out.

[funkybutt]

I agree with not liking the format of having the same thing happen each week (with Bo helping someone new while they're on the run). 

[galax-arena]

I think the original plan was for it to be more serialized, but they decided to switch to a case-of-the-week thing.

Ugh. Doesn't sound very promising, especially since the "cases of the week" are so cheesy.

I'm really only in this for Jamie Chung, but she doesn't get to do much other than stand around and express doubts about Tate.

[cko]

Bad Robot, please take a deep breath and stop pooping out high concept shows with half-assed execution.

Sigh, this is so accurate. I really want to like this show. I mean, I love a high concept. The characters have potential, and the snark between Bo and Tate is enjoyable. They could really do something with the idea of the chasers and the protectors--didn't that work in The Pretender? But the resolution of the Miracle of the Week is just too rushed and too pat.

I'm giving it a few more episodes, but am already disappointed.

[Curious5]

I haven't watched most of the programs listed so the plot might be a bit more fresh to me. I usually tape and watch later in the week so I'd rather watch Resurrection.

[SnarkyWatcher]

One of my sisters raved and raved about this show, so I gave it a try. My problem with it is the little girl. She's too sweet. I'm a Type 2 diabetic and I have to be careful when I watch this show that I don't go into a diabetic coma! LOL. Seriously, she's like a pint-sized Roma Downey and we're watching "Touched By A Special Kid Who Sees the Future and Knows All About Everyone". I just don't think it's going to last.

[Zahdii]

Bo was driving me nuts tonight.  Such a brat.  Of course it all worked out in the end.

[picklesprite]

I love Tate, Bo, and Winter, and watch for them. Which is a little too much like fast forwarding to see only James Spader on that other show. Believe won't always have this same format of run, chase, miracle, run chase, catch, escape, right? Right?

[Netfoot]

The format seems to be more along the lines of

1. Dad tells Bo to do A;
2. Bo does Z;
3. Dad lets her get away with it;

All that psionic power, and the IQ of a wounded ferret.  A good nickname for her would be "Bim".

[Boundary]

Ok many things about this show don't sound great on paper, it sounds cheesy. And in watching it, many things come across cheesy. But I'll tell you what, I love this cheesy show! I really do, some parts of it are really not great and the rest need a tweak but I do like the characters. Bo and Tate bickering should be annoying but it's not, to me anyway. Bo taking an unhealthy curiosity in strangers' lives is fascinating to me, mainly because I keep wondering about the myth arc. Why can't Bo not read anything about Tate? Does she have an inkling that he's her dad? Is that blue butterfly Bo's mother, somehow? Is she really dead?

I know one day they'll show that Tate was framed for whatever murder he was in for and that most likely Skouras was responsible. And therein lies my biggest bone of contention with this show: as a baddie, he's just over the top, too soon. I love the FBI agent using conventional methods to hunt for Tate and Bo, and them trying to evade. Most episodes, like this one, would work well under this framework, then as time went we would learn about Skouras and his methods; for now Winter and and his team are enough to convince us they have good reason for doing what they do. 

Edited April 1, 2014 by Boundary

[picklesprite]

Boundary, I agree with you about the baddie being over the top, too much, too soon. I would have preferred to have a slowly revealed mystery about all that.

The actor who plays Tate has the most amazing eyes. Every time he faces into the camera I think, wow. He and Winter ground the show, for me, and keep me coming back. I'm hopeful, but will eventually depart if they never break the plot pattern. I leave a lot of shows for that reason, even when I love some of the actors.

Edited April 1, 2014 by picklesprite

[Yeldarbe]

It is funny that this show is called Believe because I have to completely suspend my disbelief (and lock it in a soundproof box) to watch it. I didn't like that the happy ending did happen. I was hoping for Bo to be shown that Tate was right and that not all Twu Wuv Stories can hack it in real life.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I didn't like that the happy ending did happen.

 

Bo kept saying that they had to be together, but never says why other than that they still love each other ?  So she has no problem destroying that woman's current relationship, which may have also been twu wuv since she was engaged (even though they make it look like she had settled and only got engaged by default), but since soldier boy was her lobster it was ok to do so.  Because people change over time.

Gotta agree with Yeldarbe, twu wuv and ...... what exactly ? Do they end up staying together forever ? Do either of them discover the cure for cancer ?  Bring peace tot he Middle East ? Discover friendly aliens ?

[Boundary]

Gotta agree with Yeldarbe, twu wuv and ...... what exactly ? Do they end up staying together forever ? Do either of them discover the cure for cancer ?  Bring peace tot he Middle East ? Discover friendly aliens ?

Somehow I have a creeping suspicion we won't revisit this couple, proving your scepticism. Yet Bo was adamant and I have to believe that was intentional from the writers. If so, then I prefer they show me (later) that they had to be together, rather than tell me now. A lot of trust here is needed which the writers haven't earned, but I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt. It's only been 4 episodes. 

[Yeldarbe]

 

A lot of trust here is needed which the writers haven't earned, but I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt. It's only been 4 episodes.

Yeah it's like with Senga in the Pilot was anvil city and this story was far lacking in explanation.

[Curious5]

I'm wondering if we're seeing more than what's there.   Are the writers just setting up a weekly plot that Bo can help someone? They keep the background of the chase the subplot seems to be the idea of remote viewing and mind control. 

Did Skouras say that in the mind game in the park between two men that Joshua wiped the other man's mind clean?  It looked like the guy's head would explode at any moment. Is he trying to be the next Superman or Batman villain - trying to take over the world with his own mental warriors?

Prediction - I see three years of series down the line with Bo going up against Skouras good fighting bad.  I was surprised the one (Gerald?) gave the team up so easy with the police.

[Yeldarbe]

I'm not. He already said he wasn't down for ruining his life or dying for Bo. Once they threatened him with life in prison he was sure to talk.

[Boundary]

But then he gave them a redundant lead, didn't he?

[Bollen04]

Was it my imagination, our was that Bo's mom that was the source?

I have to say, this was the best episode so far. I really hope this show is given a chance. I does need some tweaking, but I am really enjoying it!

[blugirlami21]

No, the source was the redheaded woman working with Skouris.  Her name escapes me.  I think Joshua's new ability and Skouris' reaction to it turned her against him.  He's really making it hard to see his side of the things.  I did feel a smidgeon of sympathy because he seemed to genuinely care about Bo but the more we learn the less that seems to be true.

I love this show but I find it incredibly frustrating to watch.  I spend half the time screaming at the tv for them to tell Tate the truth about Bo.  Tell him that Bo is his daughter and he will stop trying to get away.  Two minute conversation and it would work wonders, I'm sure of it.  Just telling him he has to stay with a little girl he has absolutely no connection to is not going to cut it with someone as stupid and hardheaded as he is. 

Ben was just as stupid and hardheaded.  Taran was a better woman than me because the moment he was willing to let himself as well as me get killed for a story that may or may not be true I would be done.

Hopefully the reveal is coming soon because I don't know how much more of Tate's whining I can take.

Edited April 7, 2014 by blugirlami21

[Boundary]

I don't mind them keeping Tate in the dark a little bit. Tate needs to love and bond with this girl independently of his responsibilities as a father, and I think he's getting there. When Bo told Tate that "you thought you were lying ..." I chuckled a bit because it's like she peeled a few layers and wasn't concerned about his more "superficial" intentions. So when when they argue about trivial things, it just simply implies they're getting along, ironically. But now that Bo has genuinely allowed him to leave - we know he's going to stay - I, too, hope he stops whining. 

Skouras really is getting on my nerves and not in a "I love to hate him" kinda way. I think he's been ill conceived as a character, and the way he just pushes boundaries makes no sense to me. He seemed high/elated/orgasmic at Bo's powers when everyone should be scared. I don't think his lust for Bo's powers has not yet been set up properly and he lacks a subtlety that allows us in this early into a series. If the writers can't dial him down, it might work better if MacLachlan was a guest star. BTW, they need to give Jamie Chung more to do.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Boundary

[Yeldarbe]

Something's gotta happen eventually, right? They can't just be on the on the run/freaking people out forever, can they?

[jhlipton]

I expect to hear a "Bwahahahaha!!!" from Skouras any day now...

[Boundary]

Well, the saving grace is that Skouras wasn't responsible for framing Tate - I was dreading that reveal. I still groaned at the Pentagon meeting though. I mean, if Bo was so important to the military brass, then the said military brass are content with the hunt for her? If she is so important to national security, the best they can do is to have an FBI agent, who's largely in the dark (and rather incompetent as a result), and/or depend on Skouras, himself a private contractor who lost lost the girl/weapon? The incompetence of everyone else - and the sheer madness of Skouras - is beyond belief. 

I'm glad Tate now knows but I'm surprised they're implying Bo herself doesn't know that Tate is her dad. She seemed to know quite a lot so this turn of events, if true, would be rather too convenient. I was also surprised that she thought Tate had died in that boat, either she can read her dad or she can't, doing it haphazardly hurts the story.

[Bollen04]

I really enjoyed last nights episode.  I am not hopefully that this show will be renewed but I do hope it is!!  It just needs some time to work out some kinks.

I'm glad Tate has finally been told the truth about Bo, however I am very surprised that Bo doesn't know.  I assumed she figured it out in "Origins", when she told Milton that he kept his promise.  

Side note, I am a little surprised that Tate's Dad (or "friends") commented on Bo and the Amber Alert.  The would have been fun trying to explain.  I don't want to assume anything.... but is Tate now considered dead since he was on the boat that exploded?

Looking forward to next week.

[shapeshifter]

Well, the saving grace is that Skouras wasn't responsible for framing Tate...

Are we sure his money didn't fund part of what went down? That he didn't "Orchestrate" it somehow?

...I'm glad Tate now knows but I'm surprised they're implying Bo herself doesn't know that Tate is her dad. She seemed to know quite a lot so this turn of events, if true, would be rather too convenient....

This. It was still quite moving. It probably would've been even better if she just said, "I know," as Tate was trying to tell her.

...I was also surprised that she thought Tate had died in that boat, either she can read her dad or she can't, doing it haphazardly hurts the story.

And this too. She saw the fire breathing dragon but didn't see him escape? The writers have some 'splainin' to do.

[ottoDbusdriver]

 

...I was also surprised that she thought Tate had died in that boat, either she can read her dad or she can't, doing it haphazardly hurts the story.

 

And this too. She saw the fire breathing dragon but didn't see him escape? The writers have some 'splainin' to do.

 

I figure Bo couldn't tell if Tate was alive since she ran out of monthly minutes on her long distance psychic calling plan.

[Boundary]

Are we sure his money didn't fund part of what went down? That he didn't "Orchestrate" it somehow?

Oh, you brought the groans back! You are right, Skouras is bound to be revealed that he's been screwing Tate's life around, in addition to Bo's and Nina's, her mother. He'll be stroking a fluffy white cat before the season's out.

[picklesprite]

I'm getting really fond of these characters, or at least of Tate, Winter, and Bo. I hope the show lasts a while. The reveal of Tate as her dad was nice, I thought, and bless them for not dragging it out longer.

Edited to add: bonus points for breaking with the story pattern of chase, miracle for strangers, capture or near capture, escape. It was still all there, kind of, but disguised a bit. I'm really curious about how they're going to plot the overall storyline, because we'll all be exhausted if they just run, run, run forever.

My favorite sci-fi stories always have deep, warm relationships in them. So the thing about this show that works for me is the warmth developing among those three characters: Tate, Winter, Bo.

Edited April 21, 2014 by picklesprite

[Boundary]

I think it was clever putting Bo in peril because it allowed Tate to get desperate. It's always better to show that this guy has embraced his daughter than telling us. And Tate tried everything to help Bo. So what was the monster in the chimney? Was it this degradation they have mentioned a few times now?

[picklesprite]

Good question, Boundary, and one I totally forgot about: what is the monster in the chimney?

[shapeshifter]

I thought the monster was the sedative, but the "degradation" works too.

Edited April 23, 2014 by shapeshifter

[7kstar]

So far I'm enjoying this show and I'm a little surprised that I am.  From the promos I didn't think I would watch, but I was bored and gave this show a try about the 2nd or 3rd ep.

 

I liked that they stopped running so much and let Bo find out who her Dad was.  Tate wasn't so likeable at first but he does grow on you.  Will be interesting to see if this show will be more than the fugitive on the run.  I know the actual series ran for a while but I wonder if today's audience will watch a show about people on the run.

 

It was interesting to see how many people have fallen in love with Bo and are willing to die to protect her.

 

I wonder if Tate will start drawing now too?  But using art to express things Bo can't explain is an interesting tool.  Wonder if it will last?

[ottoDbusdriver]

Stealing a horse to payoff the debt a family man owes to a loan shark -- seriously ?  They may as well have made it a unicorn and had them fly away from the cops. Is some variation of this going to happen every week now ?  Sigh.

 

How did the FBI find out about Tate and Bo so quickly at that horse farm ? Someone steals a horse, you don't call the FBI.  Even if you do call the local police, it takes time to file a report, let alone how get that information distributed to local police force terminals.  Sure, the Amber alert has probably been discontinued, but still how can local police be more adept than the FBI (and the FBI is pretty inept to start with).

 

An ultra-paranoid security-conscious organization like Orchestra that deals with extraordinary persons completely ignores the abandoned tunnels under the complex -- sure, right. And I thought the FBI was inept on this show.  If Orchestra knew Channing came in through the tunnels that they chose to ignore, how come they didn't use a vehicle to block the entrance where Milton et al entered the tunnel system ?

 

Unless of course Channing is a mole -- that's why she crushed her comms before surrendering (and why no one shot her when she did it).  Maybe she is a double agent, and won't tell them about the Bo frequency scrambler.

 

With the TK detection network operational, how many other superpowered redshirts will they discover who can then be trained to take down Bo, only to have Bo cripple them in the process ?

[shapeshifter]

Stealing a horse to payoff the debt a family man owes to a loan shark -- seriously ?  They may as well have made it a unicorn and had them fly away from the cops. Is some variation of this going to happen every week now ?  Sigh.

Every time Bo said, "I LOVE horses!" I kept picturing the writers sitting around asking each other: What do 10 year old girls love? And then they were thinking of Bo's gambling abilities, and, Bingo. A race horse.

 

How did the FBI find out about Tate and Bo so quickly at that horse farm ?

The fibbie lady actually explained that they picked them up through facial recognition software. I'm sure they borrowed it from Bones or CSI.

An ultra-paranoid security-conscious organization like Orchestra that deals with extraordinary persons completely ignores the abandoned tunnels under the complex -- sure, right....If Orchestra knew Channing came in through the tunnels that they chose to ignore, how come they didn't use a vehicle to block the entrance where Milton et al entered the tunnel system ?

I'm not sure if this is a shark jumping moment, or if they are just laying the ground work for a MST3K direction of the show.

[Boundary]

I liked the change of pace, even though it came at the cost of logic. This facial recognition comes and goes at the writers' whim. It kicks in on cameras in a remote farm, personally I didn't see the point of little detour - except maybe to remind the FBI lady that she's still in the game. I like how distrustful she is of Skouras, we need to see more than that. I'd like to see her planning the manhunt, the resources she's using up and the lack of result must put her in some kind of pressure from the bigwigs. She doesn't operate in a vacuum and she's not a one woman show, so I'd like to see that addressed.

 

I'm glad Channing had more to do but I didn't see anything suspicious about destroying the earpiece. Once she was caught it could've been used to track Winters, so I understand why she did it. She was also told she'd be alone if that happened. I'm not sure the tunnels security weakness was a deliberate ploy from Orchestra, if not then it would be reasonable to assume Channing would know about it from her days there, since she was in the security department. What doesn't make sense is what Orchestra do after their security was breached, I guess they'll explain all that next week. Also, hello new Team Bo tech lady. Did we see her before?

 

Oh, I'm now certain Nina didn't die, Skouras has her locked up somewhere. But those "How I met your mother" scenes with Tate and Bo are cute, I need to hear more! I really don't think this was by design but those two have a really good chemistry. 

[Bollen04]

 

Oh, I'm now certain Nina didn't die, Skouras has her locked up somewhere.

Thank you!!  I totally agree with you.  I have been wondering if maybe she is in a coma somewhere and Skouras has her hidden so they could continue to study her.  I imagine that Milton was so wrapped up with the baby that he never question what Skouras did with Nina.  I will be very curious to see if this is the direction they take.  

 

Does anyone know how many episodes there are for this season?  I have seen 9, 11, and 12 episodes listed.  Just curious.  Next week is episode 9 and they didn't state season finale, so I am more incline to believe there are 11 or 12 episodes.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Bollen04

[Boundary]

Well, the show's wikipedia page indicates 13 episodes. I bet if Nina was alive, it probably won't happen till the finale.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Wow -- Bo solves the mystery of the oppressive tiger mom who can't help but spill hot coffee and saves the violinist who will go on to greatness (I guess) but doesn't know enough to wear her seatbelt. It's Segna all over again.

 

Bo: "She's my friend Tate, I don't want her to die."
Bo as known her all of a couple of hours, give it a rest.

 

Tate and Bo wander into a DMV -- isn't there still an Amber alert out for them ? And Bo just waltzs in behind the DMV employee and grabs something off the printer -- the DMZ employee didn't hear the printer (though we could), and didn't notice that popups on her screen. That's pushing the bounds of BELIEVE-ability.

 

Speaking of the DMV, how come facial recognition didn't ID Tate in the gov't building ? A couple of episodes ago, they were recognized in minutes from the video at that horse farm -- from a private computer network not generally available to the government.

 

Why didn't Tate just slash the tires of the guy who kills the violinist's family in that accident ?

 

Why did the cops suddenly show up at the groom-to-be's house, lights a-blazing ? And Tate just walks away. Why were the cops there -- just a coincidence ?

 

The Bo-Margaret hug was the extremely awkward before they left for the recital, followed by the whole "Can I come ?" -- it's just ridiculous, that her friend of a couple of hours is now such an important part of Margaret's life. Bullshit.

 

I only want to play if I can play for someone --- zing, Margaret FUed her mother right there.

 

There is still snow on the ground -- and yet butterflies are roaming around freely in the forest. It's too cold for most insects at those temps.

 

Wouldn't Tate have taken the same road to the recital hall, but somehow managed to beat them there after returning to the corner store to get directions ? Without passing them ? WTF ?

 

New girl is a sociopath with her gnarly powers -- big surprise -- only not so much.

 

And Skourras is a real dick -- shoots someone directly in front of the FBI. How will he not end up in jail just for that, let alone from hiding his other pet projects at Orchestra from the DoD ? And Channing will likely not die, since according to IMB she's in Episode 11 (but then again, she might die and it will be a flashback in later episodes).

[Boundary]

These kind of shows are few and far between these days; it's now a cynical world of television, so I'm glad there's one show that's just full of cheese and warmth. That embrace at the end between Bo and her new "friend" was sweet. And I fully understood it, given the explanation we were given.

 

 

Bo: "She's my friend Tate, I don't want her to die."

Bo as known her all of a couple of hours, give it a rest.

 

Bo moves around a lot and doesn't have any friends. The violinist is driven hard by her mom and she doesn't have friends. It must have been a welcome experience for both of them. In addition, Bo has probably projected into the future and seen that she would a great musician and a friend, and conflated that with the present. Understandable for a 10 year old.

 

As I've stated a few times, I like the bickering between Bo and Tate but I think they need to settle this argument once and for all. Tate needs to be the parent and Bo needs to stop wandering around alone if she doesn't get her way. Tate needs to let Bo be herself and trust her instincts and premonitions, which he eventually did. But they need to stop working at cross purposes every week just because they can. Everything is now in the open as far as their relationship is concerned, he's no longer just babysitting as a favor of being sprung from death row and she isn't stuck with yet another foster parent who'll eventually get scared away. If the bickering doesn't stop it'll start to grate.

 

I agree with ottoDbusDriver above that the facial recognition is a problem for this show. I complained about it last episode and I think the writers are failing to come up with a consistent method of handling it. It seems to pop up and disappear at the writers' convenience and that smacks of laziness to me and it's annoying. 

 

Finally, I get the sense that Dani is powerful but sociopath? Probably not. She killed her brother by mistake and she kept Zoe's secret that she's Winter's mole. I think it's going to be more interesting if they keep her ultimate allegiance to Skouras in doubt because making her Bo's nemesis is easy and too obvious. Skouras, on the other hand, is the sociopath and it would be disappointing if he's allowed to get away with shooting someone in front of the FBI. Again, that would be an example of the FBI incompetency that seems rife on tv, in this case for no other reason that to keep Skouras in play.

 

I hope they don't kill off Channing, they're only just starting to make her interesting.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Boundary

[Boundary]

Well, as expected I guess, the show's been pulled from the May 18 schedule. Cancellation is likely. Kinda liked it, even though I knew it wasn't going to last.

[radishcake]

Sorry guys! :( we'll be here to keep talking about it til it goes. <3

[shapeshifter]

...Tate and Bo wander into a DMV -- isn't there still an Amber alert out for them ? And Bo just waltzs in behind the DMV employee and grabs something off the printer -- the DMZ employee didn't hear the printer (though we could), and didn't notice that popups on her screen. That's pushing the bounds of BELIEVE-ability....

So is this why the show is named "Believe"? I've been wondering.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Finally !!!!

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2014/05/09/revolution-canceled-by-nbc-after-two-seasons/261803/

 

I guess all of Bo's powers and she couldn't see this show getting canceled. [/snark]

[Boundary]

Well, you can't just say "this kid is special and we are all gonna fight over her" and expect large numbers of people to bite. The show lost all tension after the pilot episode. Could anything have helped? I dunno, but they should've found a way to keep the tension. Maybe keep Tate on death row longer, don't show Bo's powers until late in the game, maybe keep the mother alive, a cleverer FBI/cops/Pentagon would've helped and certainly less moustache twirling Skouras. Honestly I doubt it would've helped though :(