Book 7: An Echo in the Bone

[Athena]

Short Synopsis: American rebellion is in full swing. Lord John and Will are featured. 

[MedievalGirl]

I have still not forgiven herself for the Dismal Swamp. 

[peacefrog]

Word MedevialGirl! 

 

I mostly liked EITB except for William and his travels!  

 

The book itself was one of the more humorous ones and I loved the crazy ending with all the cliffhanger.  I thought the John/Claire marriage and subsequent mmphing was hilarious and added a jolt of energy to the Jamie/Claire/John "triangle". 

Can't wait to see Lord John casted.

[WatchrTina]

 

I have still not forgiven herself for the Dismal Swamp.

I engage in a fair amount of willful suspension of disbelief for the sake of this books series but really -- William and Ian running into one another in the swamp at exactly the moment when William needed saving was just too much.  Not to mention the as-yet-not-revealeld connection between William and the Doctor.  I mean seriously -- I lived in New York City for over 20 years and only once do I recall running into someone I knew in Central Park.  But William can "bump" into his connections in the middle of an uninhabited swamp?

[CatMack]

I'm maybe a third of the way through, and so far I'm liking this more than the last two for the most part.  I admit I've started skimming William's chapters quite a bit.  I don't mind getting to know him in theory, and if fact what I read of him at the beginning wasn't bad at all - he's young and therefore sometimes very stupid but not egregiously so IMO.  I want to get to know Jamie's son.  But I want to get to know him as Jamie's son.  His story is, so far anyway, completely separated from everyone else I actually care about (although I see that changes eventually).  So it's not really that I dislike his chapters on their own merit, I just resent that I'm not spending time with the other characters I'm invested in.

 

Since I'm something of a spoiler nut I know he finds out his parentage at the end of this book, so maybe I'll feel more invested in him next book. 

 

On another note, I have to say that the children seeing "the Nuckelavee" at Lallybroch is one of the most chilling things this series has done so far.  I've only just gotten to Mandy revealing why she threw the bottle through the window, so I don't know the resolution, but I'm just have a visceral reaction to this for some reason.  I've seen too many horror movies - I know it's likely just a human person but my gut reaction is "why are you not running away and moving to the other side of the world are you trying to be the white person in a horror movie just burn the place down and salt the earth".

 

And this is why I should never be trusted with the care of historical buildings.

[Tif]

I'm maybe a third of the way through, and so far I'm liking this more than the last two for the most part.  I admit I've started skimming William's chapters quite a bit.  I don't mind getting to know him in theory, and if fact what I read of him at the beginning wasn't bad at all - he's young and therefore sometimes very stupid but not egregiously so IMO.  I want to get to know Jamie's son.  But I want to get to know him as Jamie's son.  His story is, so far anyway, completely separated from everyone else I actually care about (although I see that changes eventually).  So it's not really that I dislike his chapters on their own merit, I just resent that I'm not spending time with the other characters I'm invested in.

This is how I feel about William in this book.  Completely.  However, in the next one I enjoyed him more, though I do admit that upon re-reads I have skimmed through portions of his story line.

[nodorothyparker]

I like this book a lot more than the previous two despite its tendency to meander through the first two-thirds of it.  I did get bored at points with William's travels and travails with the British army because there didn't seem to be any clearly definable point to it and I could really do without yet another Randall possibly villainizing yet another member of this family.  I weirdly sort of liked William and Ian's adventures in the swamp.  There was obviously going to be a payoff for that beginning relationship later.  I didn't really find it any more implausible than any of the half-dozen near misses between William and Jamie or William and other family members.  But then I like getting to know Jamie's son and found the view we get of him with certain comparisons and contrasts through Lord John's eyes particularly interesting.

 

For the most part, I just can't bring myself to care all that much about the MacKenzies in modern times.  I want to, but I just really don't.  It seems too obvious that sooner or later something is going to happen that's going to force them all to go back.

 

The trip back to Scotland made for some of Gabaldon's strongest stuff emotionally.  Ian's death is of course profoundly sad, and I love Jennie making the decision to leave everything she knew that was weighing her down behind.  The visit with Laoghaire actually goes a long way to explaining and somewhat vindicating her character.  Yes, she was always selfish and childish and her actions at 16 could have had disastrous consequences.  But you finally understand the why of a lot of it and realize that Jamie, for as much as we might love him, wasn't quite as fully blameless for what happened between them as he liked to paint himself starting all the way back in Voyager.

 

Love love love the slam bang ending with Jamie coming back from the "dead" and then dropping the paternity bomb literally in the space of two pages. I'm also one who thought the quickie Claire-Lord John pairing was a fantastic shot in the arm for a story about love and unrequited pining that had gotten a little stale.  Their conversation after their drunken night together remains one of the best and most brutally honest things I've ever read.

Edited October 16, 2014 by nodorothyparker

[CatMack]

I just got the the part where William Buccleigh shows up in the 1980s and I literally shrieked with excitement.  You guys don't understand how badly I've wanted '18th century people in 20th century' shenanigans.  I must say, he seems to be taking it remarkably well so far.

[nodorothyparker]

He did seem to manage fairly well but we also don't get a whole lot of his perspective on it.

 

As much as I don't find the family as interesting in modern times and don't really care to see them trip back through the stones again with all the resulting emotional upheaval, I do wonder about the implications of William being able to hear the stones and what it might mean for stories about him and Bree in the future.  We know Jamie and Ian apparently can't travel but that would suggest that maybe William can.

[WatchrTina]

Wait, are you saying William Ransom, Earl of Ellesmere and bastard son of JAMMF can hear the stones scream?  When did we learn that?

[tcay]

The line in question happens during the Swamp interlude, I believe (and Jamie's perspective is in Scottish Prisoner). 

 

I don't think William is a time traveler though. That would mean Geneva had the gene and I'm not willing to believe Jamie managed to impregnate two time travelers. I will accept a great many coincidences in thi series, but not that!

[nodorothyparker]

I have no idea whether he's really a time traveler or not.  But yeah, it's a throwaway paragraph after he gets lost in the Great Dismal where he's listening to the sounds of the swamp and thinks about how he first heard stones talking to each other when he was a kid at Helwater and how he's never told anyone about that.  There's more stuff there about how he also hears people in the fog who aren't there, but I don't know what we're supposed to make of that.

 

Isn't their idea that time travel is genetic just one of Claire's theories anyway?  I mean, despite Roger's efforts it's not like they have an official handbook that definitively lays out how it works and why. 

[peacefrog]

I've sometimes wondered if Jamie might have been able to at one time but once he was hit on the head with the axe and lost his ability to hear music/melody that he lost the ability to "hear" the stones and travel as well. Very far fetched but just a weird trait to have him have. Young Ian doesn't hear them either so *shrug*.

William is a weirdo. :)

[Petunia846]

Wow, that's an interesting thought. I'm sure that's not where Diana's going, but that would be pretty cool.

[mybabyaidan]

I suppose it could be explained, but he did touch the stones when he brought Claire up after the witch trial and nothing happened. 

 

But I would be willing to go with any explanation that gets JAMMF to the 20th century.

[Petunia846]

I suppose it could be explained, but he did touch the stones when he brought Claire up after the witch trial and nothing happened. 

Well but that was after he'd been hit on the head...that doesn't count. This makes me wish Outlander had more fanfiction.

[mybabyaidan]

Ah, I misread the original post.  Sorry, nothing to see here.  Ignore me.

[Dejana]

Diana has been very anti-fanfic in the past; not sure if her stance has loosened since Outlander became a TV show.

[ohhellsyeah]

I've never gone looking for Outlander fanfic, but just because DG hates it doesn't mean it isn't out there somewhere.

Edited October 22, 2014 by ohhellsyeah

[absnow54]

I suppose it could be explained, but he did touch the stones when he brought Claire up after the witch trial and nothing happened.

Well but that was after he'd been hit on the head...that doesn't count. This makes me wish Outlander had more fanfiction.

I had this crazy theory once that when Jamie was with the French army he was actually fighting in World War II and the MacKenzies were picking him up from the stones because they had stashed him in the 20th century and the Highlander that Frank sees that he thinks is a ghost was actually Jamie getting one last glimpse of Claire before he went through the stones the next day (with her soon accidentally following.) It made no sense, and was quickly debunked, but I love thinking about all those "what if" scenarios.

[Kiwi]

Finally finished! I enjoyed it for the most part. Like most of you I found the chapters dealing with William on his own or with the British army rather dull. Once he started interacting with Ian and Claire though he became so much more interesting. I did enjoy the pay off when Jamie was finally revealed to him as his father. Those last few chapters were very exciting and jam packed. Claire marrying Grey thinking Jamie dead was also interesting and I look forward to the fallout of that in the next book. The last third of the book was like reading the first two, I didn't want to put it down to go to sleep.

I must say I liked Brianna and Roger a lot more in 20th century, maybe because less time was dealt with them and when we were there they were often reading letters.

Buccleigh ending up in their time was surprising. For some reason I just assumed if someone could travel through time it would always be backwards. I'm guessing his story will be more fleshed out in the next book.

There seemed to be a lot of coincidences in this book, most I did not mind but Dottie being in love with Dr Hunter took it a bit far.

I'm feeling a little sad knowing I have only one book to go then I will have to wait like everyone else for book 9. I feel like I've done a massive marathon in reading.

Oh one more thing then I'm done. I still dislike Jenny. Ever since her introduction I've not liked her attitude, she's mean for no real reason, she just annoys me. It will be interesting to see if her portrayal in the show changes my opinion, like it did for Dougal. I hope so.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Kiwi

[Petunia846]

Congratulations! It is a marathon, and you're almost done. I liked the most recent book a lot.

 

For some reason I just assumed if someone could travel through time it would always be backwards.

Except of course Claire travels forward in time to get back home...but I know what you mean, because she was returning to her real time, she wasn't really a person from the past going forward.

 

I agree about Jenny.

 

As much as William was boring in this book, I thought all the stuff with Lord John's family was the worst. I only just last month read "The Scottish Prisoner" but I don't think they would have interested me any more even if I'd read that before reading this book.

[WatchrTina]

I still dislike Jenny. (Kiwi)

I agree about Jenny. (Petunia846)

I got mad at Jenny on occasion but I always forgave her bad behavior because I understood her motives.  

 

I was really angry with her for spoiling the nice reunion scene I was enjoying at Lallybroch in book 3 but of course she was right that someone had to tell Claire about Laoghaire (and shame on Jamie for not doing it in the first place).  No one could foresee Laoghaire's storming into Jamie and Claire's bedroom or her shooting Jamie.  Recall that no one at Lallybroch knows that Laoghaire nearly got Claire burned as a witch and given the troubled relationship between Laoghaire and Jamie and their lack of passion for one another (I suspect Jenny picked up on that when the two decided to live apart) she really couldn't foresee the violence of Laoghaire's reaction to Claire's return.  Plus, as far as she knew, Claire had abandoned Jamie and all the Highlanders at the time of their worst trial.  Claire looks good when she returns.  It's clear she has not suffered the kind of privations that all the Highlanders experienced in the 20 years since the rising.  I can forgive Jenny for not being TeamClaire at that point.

 

As for the fight between Jenny and Claire when Ian is sick, weel I have to forgive her that one too.  She doesn't really understand what Claire is.  I think at that point she's been told about the time-travel and she knows Claire has some kind of secret foreknowledge because they acted on her advice to plant potatoes and it saved them from starvation.  She knows Claire can effect some almost miraculous cures such as when she saves Jamie after he is shot by Laoghaire.  So I can understand that in her desperation to save Ian she convinces herself that Claire could save him if only she would.  Her anger at Claire is just misdirected grief.  I love Ian the character.  So I can forgive Jenny for having an irrational reaction to his imminent death.

 

I was angry again in MOBY but I forgave her there as well.  

When Jenny tells Jamie that Claire ran into one of her rapists at the trading post I thought that was very presumptuous of her.  I felt that that information was Claire's secret to tell or not tell.  But again, she did it out of her fierce loyalty to Jamie and her first-hand knowledge that trouble will follow when important things are hidden and not discussed.  Remember her and Jamie's "reunion" scene in book 1, all of which was based on a misunderstanding that stemmed from lack of communication?  Jenny is quite high-handed when she tells Jamie about the rapist but if, by doing so, she prevents a classic Fraser argument-based-on-speculation-and-misinterpretation then I'm fine with her violating Claire's confidence.  And now Claire knows -- if she wants to keep something secret from Jamie, don't tell Jenny.

Edited February 15, 2015 by WatchrTina

[peacefrog]

Jenny is an interesting character.  I get the hate for her, I understand her motivations as well. She is an alpha female in a series about another strong alpha female.  She's not evil or a villain. I don't feel she is like Jamie since she speaks her mind while Jamie tends to withhold information that he thinks would be upsetting. 

 

I feel she is the one person Claire is a little afraid of and in awe of. She is her stand in mother-in-law. I would love to read about Ellen one day to see if Jenny is like her.

[Kiwi]

Except of course Claire travels forward in time to get back home...but I know what you mean, because she was returning to her real time, she wasn't really a person from the past going forward.

 

I agree about Jenny.

 

As much as William was boring in this book, I thought all the stuff with Lord John's family was the worst. I only just last month read "The Scottish Prisoner" but I don't think they would have interested me any more even if I'd read that before reading this book.

 

Yes that is what I meant. I always assumed people could travel back from their real time not forward from their real time. It was an interesting development - having only read the first section of Moby I will be interested to see where Gabaldon takes it.

 

Totally agree with you about Lord John Greys family. When the story is away for too long a time from characters I am personally invested in I do tend to get a bit bored. Which is when it starts taking me ages to get through the book because I can not be bothered.

 

Something else that surprised me was Claire telling everyone at Lallybroch where she is actually from and what she is. That would be a hard secret to keep for so long, I am glad people are starting to find out, even if they do not totally believe/understand her, it makes Jamie's faith in her that much more meaningful.

[lianau]

I got mad at Jenny on occasion but I always forgave her bad behavior because I understood her motives.  

 

I was really angry with her for spoiling the nice reunion scene I was enjoying at Lallybroch in book 3 but of course she was right that someone had to tell Claire about Laoghaire (and shame on Jamie for not doing it in the first place).  No one could foresee Laoghaire's storming into Jamie and Claire's bedroom or her shooting Jamie.  Recall that no one at Lallybroch knows that Laoghaire nearly got Claire burned as a witch and given the troubled relationship between Laoghaire and Jamie and their lack of passion for one another (I suspect Jenny picked up on that when the two decided to live apart) she really couldn't foresee the violence of Laoghaire's reaction to Claire's return.  Plus, as far as she knew, Claire had abandoned Jamie and all the Highlanders at the time of their worst trial.  Claire looks good when she returns.  It's clear she has not suffered the kind of privations that all the Highlanders experienced in the 20 years since the rising.  I can forgive Jenny for not being TeamClaire at that point.

 

 

I agree and I also think what makes it worse for Jenny is that Claire knows where they live , she knows about the Abbey or where Jared lives. All she had to do was knock on Jared's door  to have a place to stay and be able to let everyone know she's alive and get information about Jamie .She didn't do that . So for 20 years she let Jamie suffer only to waltz  back into his life like nothing had happened . I'd be pissed too.

[cteaglefan]

Finished this book. Went a lot faster than #6. But I could have dealt with less random John story lines.

 

I will say they dropped the ball on the Jemmy being kidnapped plot. In her rush to get William and Jamie to meet this plot line was dropped. I wish she would have just taken another 100 pages and at least started to work on that. 

[SunDevil]

I just started this book and don't want to spoil myself reading through the whole thread, but since when is Brianna a highly qualified hydro-electric engineer?!? I thought she was a history major, and artist, with a middling ability to make things. Did reading a few books make you an expert in the 70s or did Joe Abernathy falsify a masters degree and 10 year work history when she returned? People in the 20th century couldn't leave the work force for 5 years without their experience being rendered obsolete, are we really to believe her 18th century interest translates 200 years later? Not just translates, but surpasses that of her peers and seniors? Maybe I skipped a chapter where she traveled into the 22nd century and interned at the Super Magical Osmosis Plant.

[mamabear]

If I recall correctly, she went to MIT and majored in civil engineering after flirting with being a history major. I don't remember what book talked about her major, though.

Edited July 17, 2015 by mamabear

[auntlada]

I believe the third book mentioned she was studying engineering. She had studied history to please Frank, but at some point (after his death maybe?) discovered that she really enjoyed and was good at math.

 

ETA: Maybe book four. I'm not sure.

Edited July 18, 2015 by auntlada

[Haleth]

Even so, it kind of defies credibility that she would be qualified for the job, having never actually worked in the field. Bree was too perfect and annoys me no end.

[SunDevil]

Oh I did not remember an engineering degree from MIT. I would have thought she could have done more with that in the 18th century than build a kiln, make matches, and a rattlesnake tooth syringe. Oh well, I guess it lends enough credibility that I can start reading again. I couldn't get past it, lol.

[AD55]

I wondered about this, too. I have a horrible memory, but I thought she was c. 20 when she went through the stones. Had she already gotten her engineering degree at MIT at that point?

[GHScorpiosRule]

I wondered about this, too. I have a horrible memory, but I thought she was c. 20 when she went through the stones. Had she already gotten her engineering degree at MIT at that point?

 

No, she was 20 when we first met her in Dragonfly.  But two or three years went by before she and then Roger, went through the stones. So she's around 25-26 in Breath of Snow and Ashes, which I'm currently reading; don't know what year it is in Echo.

[WatchrTina]

I also recall Brianna being a qualified engineer, which is why it made sense to me when she designed a block-and-tackle/pulley/framework/gizmo to hoist up that buffalo she and Claire killed. No one there had any experience butchering a buffalo and at first no one would listen to Brianna but someone (Jamie?) said "It's her kill" indicating to the men that they had to follow her instructions with regard to its disposition.  I liked that scene because it was a nice reminder of Brianna's frustration at being a 1960's woman in 1770's America. 

 

I also had the sense that Brianna got the job at the hydro-electric plant because there were no other qualified applicants.  It was way out in the middle of rural, sparsely-populated Scotland right?  If someone else had applied who had an engineering degree AND some experience at a hydro-electric plant (or, let's face it, a Y chromosome) he would have beaten her out for the job.

Edited July 17, 2015 by WatchrTina

[Dust Bunny]

I'm actually at this point right now in my reread of the books. Even though the prior books build a bit of a foundation with Bree's capabilities in this area, it still reads a little implausible to me that Bree would be so qualified for it. I guess she has had some time back in the 20th century to catch up to modern practices, but still.

 

Bree's character is one area I hope the show can surpass the book. I've always wanted to like Bree, but it's not easy. I hope they can cast and write Bree's character who is a strong woman with Jamie's blood in her, but who is also approachable and likable. As far as I'm concerned, they can take as much time as they need to cast the right Bree. Much more important than feeding the fan frenzy during Droughtlander by providing casting news as soon as possible.

[AD55]

 

No, she was 20 when we first met her in Dragonfly.  But two or three years went by before she and then Roger, went through the stones. So she's around 25-26 in Breath of Snow and Ashes, which I'm currently reading; don't know what year it is in Echo.

 

Thank you! By the time she got the engineering job, the timeline in my head had compressed. I forgot how much time had passed between Claire's departure and Bree and Roger's trip through the stones.

 

WatchrTina, I did the same filling in the gaps about Bree's being given the job. Plus, there have always been women who managed to overcome seemingly insurmountable barriers. Like mother, like daughter in the Outlander-verse, I suppose. My main problem was forgetting that she had time to finish her degree before she went through the stones.

 

Dust Bunny, I'm optimistic that show Bree will be easier to take. I've never liked the way her character is written. I would say more, but if I recall Athena's most recent message, we're not supposed to discuss other books, even if they came before the one that is the subject of a particular thread.

Edited July 18, 2015 by AD55

[WatchrTina]

AD55 Athena's post says:

 

Book Topics: Each book topic assumes you have read all the books up to that point.

So you can talk about anything that happens in books 1-7 in this thread.  Anything from book 8 or books outside the big book series (e.g., the Lord John books) should be behind spoiler bars.

 

(Athena, set me straight if I'm wrong.)

Edited July 19, 2015 by WatchrTina

[GHScorpiosRule]

So, I just started this one this morning, and I'm starting to wonder if DG just wants the Frasers to be clickish and not have any friends, other than Lord John or something.  The way she suddenly threw out how it was Arch Bug who stole the French gold, demonizing him and also Murdina--to the point where it seems that they had an agenda when they came to become part of Jamie's clan on The Ridge.  And we learn how Mrs. Bug died, since her death was just alluded to in the epilogue in Breath of Snow and Ashes.  Which, had me scratching my head, because I knew she'd survived the fire.

 

But I will say that this is moving along quickly.  And it's interesting how the scene with Willie, Bree, Roger, Jem looked to Lord Grey and Jamie in Breath, and how it looked from Willie's point of view.  From the former, there was no indication that Roger and Bree were telling Jem to BE QUIET! There was none of Bree throwing her head back and laughing, as was seen through Lord Grey's eyes.  Here, it was awkward. At least, that's how it came across to me.

 

And now Jamie, Wee Ian and Claire, along with Rollo, are headed back to Scotland. I am dreading this, because like the spoiler hoor I am, I know what is coming--with Ian and Rollo. *sob*.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Grrrrr.....

 

Yes, that's how I'm feeling as I'm reading how so quickly and out of left field DG has turned Arch into the EVIL of this buik. And how he's now this COLD and verra DANGEROUS man, who Wee Ian must now look over his shoulder to avoid, or not even marry anyone, since it was by his arrow that Murdina Bug was killed.

 

I don't like it. Not one bit. I liked the idea and thought it was sweet how Jamie had this older tenant, if you will, tending and helping out on Fraser's Ridge.  And now I'm to believe and accept he was this serpent in the garden that Jamie had let in. Just croak and die already. Because I don't give a shit about him anymore.  The hypocrisy of going to Jamie, over Lionel's murder, knowing full well, the reason for the killing, wasn't to protect Claire and Jamie, but because they'd been found out. Just makes me more angry.

 

Oh Lawd Have Mercy, but ye all weren't kidding with the scenes of just Willie being B-O-R-I-N-G.  And the return of Percy, who has turned into an arrogant fop.

 

I get the feeling that Roger wishes he were back in the 18th century.  And Bree still bugs.

 

But I'm loving the moments with Jamie and Claire, and Jamie and Bobby, Aidan, Orrie, Amy...and ugh, I just don't like the Lizzie married to two brothers.  

 

And now they're off to Scotland.

 

In addition to looking just like his Da, Willie just also had to have Jamie's seasickness to boot, right?

Edited July 30, 2015 by GHScorpiosRule

[GHScorpiosRule]

Why did I think that Jamie, Wee Ian, Rollo and Claire's trip to Scotland would go smoothly and then maybe more drama?

 

Me: ARGGGGHHHH!!!!! Stop! I'm just so tired of the "adventures, mayhem on the seas!" Can't Jamie and Claire, and Wee Ian, just have smooth sailing? Is that too much tae ask for? Apparently so. And NOOOO! Just no. That we lose Rollo* in this manner. I'm hoping that he survives that arsehole Stebbing. And I won't lie. I laughed and guffawed while reading what Jamie called him, as I was sitting on the train this morning.

 

*Even though I'd read this thread before getting to this buik, and knew we would lose him. I'm just not ready for it.

 

Ahem.. But to backtrack a wee bit.

 

Herman and Vermin? Okay then. Didn't see what purpose they serve, but as someone pointed out, DG doesn't just create characters for no reason. Yeah? Well, I can do without these two, thankyeverramooch.

 

William: B-O-R-I-N-G.

 

Anything to do with Bree? Please see above.

 

Roger? slightly better.

 

Jem? Love.

 

Mandy? Amusing.

 

Jamie/Claire/Wee Ian/Fergus? Yes! More please. Just tell me their stories. And I love Germaine! Laughed when he handed the two frogs to Percival in the hopes that he'd get warts. Or was that must my feeble hope?

 

The attempt to kidnap Fergus? Hmmm, I'm wondering if that was a way for Percival, that fop, to get Jamie to talk to him? And why?

 

Jamie and Claire and Wee Ian better not get separated!

 

And I find that I must go back and learn about the American Revolution. Because clearly, there's a HUGE portion that I don't remember and I remember almost everything about history that I learned when I was wee and in junior and high school. I am speaking of course, of the presence of the British after we gained Independence, and the fact that there is still fighting and skirmishes that is still going on, even a year later. Or is that DG using creative license? I don't think it is.

 

And boo hoo, Tom Christie. So you're in love with Claire. Like her very existence causes you pain? Go find a hole or pew to crawl in and cry your tears because she's married, and you still think she's a witch and you find yourself in love with one. God, I wish she had slapped him, like she did Jamie.  

 

I do love that Jamie understands where it was coming from.

[Laurie]

No creative license.  While we declared independence in 1776 the actual war went on until 1783. 

 

There's a whole lot of war left to get through.

 

 

[nodorothyparker]

The British surrender at Yorktown didn't happen until late 1781 and the war didn't officially end until 1783.  I think it's either in this one or the previous book where Lord John talks about how ridiculous the Declaration of Independence was from a British standpoint.  They didn't take it seriously at all because as far as they were concerned, the revolution was just a rebellion in one of the British territories to be put down and not a war with an entirely separate country.  That's one of the sticking points in the plot about Burgoyne's surrender and the convention army, which very much affects William's storyline.  The colonies weren't considered to be in a position to be dictating anything to the British.

 

But I still like William, even if I concede that I tend to skim a fair bit when he's not interacting with any of our core characters.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Thanks Laurie and nodorothyparker.

 

This shows how much I forgot! {hanging head in shame}

 

And though I like William, (I do!) I just find the chapters when it's just him, so, so, borrrrring!

 

Yes, I am a weird burrd.

 

And puir Claire! Just when she had brand new syringes and acupuncture  needles made (from gold!), only to leave them on the Teal.

I do wonder though, when Jamie dreams of Jem and Mandy, if he's psychic, because he's seeing and describing things he's never seen before or has no knowledge of...or is his mind teleporting Himself to the future in dreams? Ooh! Which reminds me, I have to go Google...

[Laurie]

Don't hang your head in shame...while I had a basic grasp of the sequence of events I had to Google it. My info came from that most reliable of resources...Wikipedia.

 

I also found William boring in Echo...I thought he was much more interesting (but also a bit of an a**) in MOBY.

 

I've often chuckled at the number of medical kits Claire has lost in one way or the other but somehow always managed to replace.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I also found William boring in Echo...I thought he was much more interesting (but also a bit of an a**) in MOBY.

 

I've often chuckled at the number of medical kits Claire has lost in one way or the other but somehow always managed to replace.

 

Well, he's always been an ass. Okay, one does not call a toddler an ass, but he was the worst kind of spoiled brat. And assy to Wee Ian, which led to him falling into the shit in the privy in Drums.  I'm just trying to figure out if Willie and Dottie have made up this grand passion and love for each other so that Willie is returned to England? It's all very confusing. But there's something there, underneath it all, and I wonder if it was the murder of the poxed prostitute that set it in motion.

 

I know! DG manages to find new and gross ways to describe the "healing" that Claire does in every buik. In this one, her being a dentist, when she was extracting and pulling all of those puir girl's teeth!

[nodorothyparker]

William's ridiculously sheltered and spoiled to be sure, which isn't really surprising considering he's the sole heir to a very wealthy earldom and has been raised as a much doted upon only son and grandson.  He's also very young throughout all of this.  But by all accounts, Jamie had his moments too when he was William's age before his uncles intervened and then Black Jack Randall entered the scene.

 

I don't fully start enjoying William in this book until his misadventures with Ian in the Great Dismal.  That's when you start to see that not all of his connections were lost even if he can't fully remember them or put them in context.

[GHScorpiosRule]

William's ridiculously sheltered and spoiled to be sure, which isn't really surprising considering he's the sole heir to a very wealthy earldom and has been raised as a much doted upon only son and grandson.  He's also very young throughout all of this.  But by all accounts, Jamie had his moments too when he was William's age before his uncles intervened and then Black Jack Randall entered the scene.

 

I don't fully start enjoying William in this book until his misadventures with Ian in the Great Dismal.  That's when you start to see that not all of his connections were lost even if he can't fully remember them or put them in context.

 

Yes, I know. I admit, I'm skimming over all the Willie stuff because I KNOW that he and Wee Ian meet up, and I am sooo looking forward to that! And aye, I ken Willie just turned 19 where I am in the story. It's not that I don't like him, but like I said, it's just sae borring! I don't recall that being the case with Wee Ian.

 

And I also realize I'm being persnickety.

[CalamityBoPeep]

I do wonder though, when Jamie dreams of Jem and Mandy, if he's psychic, because he's seeing and describing things he's never seen before or has no knowledge of...or is his mind teleporting Himself to the future in dreams? Ooh! Which reminds me, I have to go Google...

 

I tend to see this as Jamie having a natural ability for astral projection, that he only experiences while he's asleep.  It's like being a ghost that is alive... sending the astral self off to explore while the body sleeps elsewhere.  Sometimes the astral self would be visible to those who can pick up on that energy.  And if all time is simultaneous and our astral selves have no concept of the boundaries between past, present, future...

 

Well, let's just say my theory lines up with my own personal explorations in trying to understand esoteric stuff over the last 30 years or so.  I have no idea if that's what DG is going for.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I tend to see this as Jamie having a natural ability for astral projection, that he only experiences while he's asleep.  It's like being a ghost that is alive... sending the astral self off to explore while the body sleeps elsewhere.  Sometimes the astral self would be visible to those who can pick up on that energy.  And if all time is simultaneous and our astral selves have no concept of the boundaries between past, present, future...

 

Well, let's just say my theory lines up with my own personal explorations in trying to understand esoteric stuff over the last 30 years or so.  I have no idea if that's what DG is going for.

 

 

Yes! That's the word I was blanking on: astral projection. That's what I'm thinking he's doing. And did when he saw Claire when he did. Meaning, when he told her he saw her, and not the "ghost" we saw in Outlander.