S23.E14: HOH #5, Nominations #5

[peachmangosteen]

Quote

HOH comp and nominations

Airs August 8th.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Britni looked really pretty today.  I love how calm she was when Derek X. spoke to her, but she ended up crying anyway.  LOL.  Poor kid.

How arrogant are those fucking Kings?  They are never ever allowed to be on the block?  They are never ever allowed to be put up as pawns?  Not only do each of them think that they should never be put up, but nobody else in their alliance can be put up either?  The HOH can't keep putting up fucking Britni and another Joker every fucking week.   Holy shit.  I love Xavier because he's so damn hot but damn they are annoying.  At least X was really really reasonable in his conversation with Derek X.  He hid his feelings very well.

Derek F. might seem like a joke to some viewers, but I was thinking that he's playing really well.  Poor Britni is taking the shield for DereF and Azah every week.

Tiffany letting out the Royal Flush bombshell was obviously the most exciting part of the episode.  Besides Xavier's muscles.

I am a huge Derek X. fangirl.  It was really hard this episode with how he decided to interview every contestant but hey.  Maybe everyone will enjoy how he had the balls to put up Princess SB who can never be touched.  Did Derex let Hannah manipulate him, or was this his idea?  I tend to think the latter..............  And I thought Derex was one of the smartest people there.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[JayDub1987]

Kudos to DereX for at least making an attempt to make a move. It's the first signs of life in this house ever since Frenchie's Fun House of Chaos. I hope it works as I can't stand Christian. However, I'm expecting him to get drawn to play in the veto that he will inevitably win, giving himself safety. Best case? Christian is out. Worst case? Britini finally goes away. It's not really a bad week. 

[mojoween]

Derek - “I want all the power this week!  I want to make a big move!”

Also Derek - “This is so haaaaard why won’t anyone be a paaaaawwwwwn waaaaah.”

[Eolivet]

Xavier's fealty to the Kings is so odd to me. He can't be the main proponent of the Cookout and the Kings. By lobbying to keep the Kings safe, it's like he was trying to get members of the Cookout nominated. He does realize the Kings run in direct opposition to the Cookout, right?

Oh, Sarah Beth. I guess Hannah was just as smart as you thought she was.

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 minute ago, Eolivet said:

Xavier's fealty to the Kings is so odd to me. He can't be the main proponent of the Cookout and the Kings. By lobbying to keep the Kings safe, it's like he was trying to get members of the Cookout nominated. He does realize the Kings run in direct opposition to the Cookout, right?

Very, very, very, very good point.  Basically X wants all 3 factions (Kings, Cookout, Royal Flush) constantly swimming around and protecting him (like a moat) and I can't fault him for that.  But they are living in a dream world if they think only the Jokers will go up every week and Derex showed them to their face.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[willco]

I wish that CBS would hire Tom Hanks to record the phrase "There's no crying in Big Brother !" and play it every time someone puts Britni up. Oh, I can see lots of time where people might cry while playing the game, but just being put up isn't one of them. If she is actually evicted, yeah. But as far as she knows, she's just a pawn right now. I just find it annoying.

 

Derek F napping all the time would be understandable if we ever saw him actually do anything other than lie around. Other than during comps, I don't think I've seen him move more than once since the show started !

[Ms Blue Jay]

Derek F in every scene

[Halting Hex]

Oh, joy.  With Britinii and Sarah Beth nominated, and Christian as the backdoor target, a fifth consecutive white HG seems very likely to be evicted.

Indeed, DereX nominated/targeted every single remaining eligible white HG.  (Clair has safety, for which she'll no doubt get capped next week, to keep the string going.)

I assume the not-so-gentle hand of the DR is in play here.  Why else would DX forego nominating Azah and DereF (and thus being able to still feign loyalty to the Royal Flush) when he doesn't even know about the "it's okay for US to do it!" Cookout alliance?  But somebody (and it's not Xavier) is working hard to protect those Jokers, it seems.

Yada-yada. "it's Revenge, not Racism!"  Yada-yada, "they're just reaping what Jackson and Cody sowed", yeah, yeah, I get it.  I'm sorry, though…IMO this doesn't look any better in reverse.  (And the country is still 70% white…and I'd guess others might get as twitchy as I am.  If not significantly moreso.)

Again, all JMO.

************************************

Derek X can make up all the rules he wants, such as "it doesn't count if I didn't say it on the wall".  But generally, if you shake on a deal, as DereX did with Xavier about keeping the Kings safe, it's supposed to mean something.  Nobody made you shake, bro.  Boo.

BTW, our "epic battle of endurance" lasted a whopping 83 minutes.  The ghosts of Michele Costa and April (from the original S10 wall comp) spit on these losers.  Pathetic.  They didn't even have to deal with projectiles, as has been standard since the "eagles" of BB17.  Weaklings.

****************************************

And yes, Tiffany has indeed bought her ticket on the Go Fuck Yourself Express.  (She can sit right next to Hannah.)  Her constant bragging about "thinking up" the Brigade's strategy, only a decade after Enzo did, is just the last straw.  (And she probably spent last summer watching Enzo talk about it on the Live Feeds, so it's not even requiring memory skills.)

And meanwhile, Ms. Mastermind is flapping her gums about her other alliance to Hannah, and not even realizing what she's done.  I can't wait for her to become a target, even though she's probably golden for the F6, at least.  Sigh.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Halting Hex

[North of Eden]

I'd say a couple long term futures for the game dimmed considerably tonight.

Derek X-He's too good at comps. Nobody is going to want him around at the end of the game when comps are so important. He really would have been better off falling from the wall.

Tiffany-Eventually a lot of people like Hannah sort of did tonight will realize Tiffany is a bit too crafty and is pulling strings and for the sake of their game they need to put her out so they aren't in the final two chairs with  her while she points out how she had huge control over the game.

In other news...Hannah! I thought she was going to get busy with Derek X right there on the matt amidst the rain and puke the way she made the dash and leaped on him. I like the idea of them as a showmance but only moments later she basically she wants to use him to be the actual  HOH.

Derek F-Asah filler segment. That felt like something that could have been taped days or weeks ago and just inserted here to plug a few minutes. Also if Asah doesn't have a poker face...how in the world did she become a Director of Sales. I would think being a salesman required a lot of masking what you are really feeling/thinking. Used cars salesman can sell you a lemon with a smile on their face.

Britini crying at noms is actually quite funny at this point.

Claire gets one and one talking head only and that's it for the episode though I do wonder how long before people resent her being able to thumb her nose at competitions because she can't be nominated.

Edited August 9, 2021 by North of Eden

[Callaphera]

Funny: Brent boasting in the DR that he has the numbers when he actually had a big fat zero.
Crickets: Deref claiming that the wall comp is his comp in the DR as he falls off the wall first.

Like, we know you go to that well every year, Big Brother, but you usually try a little harder than that. That was just pathetic.

[peachmangosteen]

5 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Funny: Brent boasting in the DR that he has the numbers when he actually had a big fat zero.
Crickets: Deref claiming that the wall comp is his comp in the DR as he falls off the wall first.

Like, we know you go to that well every year, Big Brother, but you usually try a little harder than that. That was just pathetic.

Seriously. At least with Brent, he legit actually believed that. The Deref thing was completely scripted.

[Callaphera]

5 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Seriously. At least with Brent, he legit actually believed that. The Deref thing was completely scripted.

He looked like his family was being held hostage as a Production lackey shouted "JUST SAY THE LINE. SAY THE LINE AND EVERYONE WILL BE FINE."

Deref: *big smile while looking dead in the eyes* "This athletic endurance wall competition that is traditionally won by smaller, more compact people and has a heavy skew of female winners is totally going to be the competition I will do the best at, as I am none of those things." *thumbs up at the camera* "Is that okay? Can you just let my grandma go now please?"

Edited August 9, 2021 by Callaphera

[peachmangosteen]

I wonder what Production would do if someone just refused to say one of their scripted bullshit lines? I'm sure Grodner would find some way to screw them over in the game lol.

[Callaphera]

1 minute ago, peachmangosteen said:

I wonder what Production would do if someone just refused to say one of their scripted bullshit lines? I'm sure Grodner would find some way to screw them over in the game lol.

I dunno, BB21's Kemi refused to be the "sassy black girl" character in the DR when they kept asking her to and outside of the Drag the Jackholes/Shaker Bottle segment, she got an invisible edit sooo...

[Melina22]

1 hour ago, North of Eden said:

I like the idea of them as a showmance but only moments later she basically she wants to use him to be the actual  HOH.

I also like the idea of them as a showmance, and I suspect Hannah does as well, but it wasn't promising when she went to hug him a second time in the storage room and he recoiled and said, "No. Sorry. You're so cold." On the surface it made sense, but still... 

I loved the Deref/Azah segment. I find Azah completely fascinating and hilarious. If they decide to give her a 30 minute segment some night I'd be totally on board. 

Once again, it was a slowish episode with no fireworks but I totally enjoyed it. I guess I just like hanging out, spying on these people. 

[Racj82]

3 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Oh, joy.  With Britinii and Sarah Beth nominated, and Christian as the backdoor target, a fifth consecutive white HG seems very likely to be evicted.

Indeed, DereX nominated/targeted every single remaining eligible white HG.  (Clair has safety, for which she'll no doubt get capped next week, to keep the string going.)

I assume the not-so-gentle hand of the DR is in play here.  Why else would DX forego nominating Azah and DereF (and thus being able to still feign loyalty to the Royal Flush) when he doesn't even know about the "it's okay for US to do it!" Cookout alliance?  But somebody (and it's not Xavier) is working hard to protect those Jokers, it seems.

Yada-yada. "it's Revenge, not Racism!"  Yada-yada, "they're just reaping what Jackson and Cody sowed", yeah, yeah, I get it.  I'm sorry, though…IMO this doesn't look any better in reverse.  (And the country is still 70% white…and I'd guess others might get as twitchy as I am.  If not significantly moreso.)

Again, all JMO.

************************************

Derek X can make up all the rules he wants, such as "it doesn't count if I didn't say it on the wall".  But generally, if you shake on a deal, as DereX did with Xavier about keeping the Kings safe, it's supposed to mean something.  Nobody made you shake, bro.  Boo.

BTW, our "epic battle of endurance" lasted a whopping 83 minutes.  The ghosts of Michele Costa and April (from the original S10 wall comp) spit on these losers.  Pathetic.  They didn't even have to deal with projectiles, as has been standard since the "eagles" of BB17.  Weaklings.

****************************************

And yes, Tiffany has indeed bought her ticket on the Go Fuck Yourself Express.  (She can sit right next to Hannah.)  Her constant bragging about "thinking up" the Brigade's strategy, only a decade after Enzo did, is just the last straw.  (And she probably spent last summer watching Enzo talk about it on the Live Feeds, so it's not even requiring memory skills.)

And meanwhile, Ms. Mastermind is flapping her gums about her other alliance to Hannah, and not even realizing what she's done.  I can't wait for her to become a target, even though she's probably golden for the F6, at least.  Sigh.

It's just my opinion but that I don't really agree with all of your thoughts on the cookout.

It's really, literally, no different than women coming in the house and wanting to form an all female alliance to protect themselves from the constant barrage of guys trying to run over and dispose of women in the house.

This is a position forced upon them. Anyone watching the show have seen the struggles POC have had in the house. 

They also aren't forging together to get rid of another group. I appreciate that. Everyone in the cookout is already working with other people. The cookout also happens to be looking out for each other. Something I think most people can respect.

People will continue to hate an alliance formed around race but what I hated was watching POC feel like outcasts and targeted and/or mocked for their heritage. I'll take this over that any day.

I'm really enjoying this season in that I don't feel like I know who will win. I don't feel like any group is being targeted. Even with the cookout, the season isn't about that. No constant men vs women garbage. I like the change up.

 

[Racj82]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

The other house guests that aren't in that alliance aren't responsible for that, and yet they are the ones that are paying the price for it.  Yes, they are white, but they don't have any power in terms of how this game is run.  They don't have any control over who has entered the house, and they are not responsible for the horrible way some white house guests have acted in past seasons.   

No one is paying any price and that's why I find the outrage of the cookout laughable. They aren't targeting white houseguests. They all have genuine bonds and game plans with non black people in the house. They are a group of people looking out for each other. It's not hurting anyone or the games of other people in the house.

[North of Eden]

3 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

No one is paying any price and that's why I find the outrage of the cookout laughable. They aren't targeting white houseguests. They all have genuine bonds and game plans with non black people in the house. They are a group of people looking out for each other. It's not hurting anyone or the games of other people in the house.

Didn't you watch the episode where Tiffany laid out step by step purposely aligning the Cook Out with pawns they will systemically target leaving the Cook Out to fight it out amongst themselves once they get rid of all their pawns? If you're an unwitting pawn in this scheme then your game certainly is being hurt when you are sent home or to the jury.

[Racj82]

6 minutes ago, North of Eden said:

Didn't you watch the episode where Tiffany laid out step by step purposely aligning the Cook Out with pawns they will systemically target leaving the Cook Out to fight it out amongst themselves once they get rid of all their pawns? If you're an unwitting pawn in this scheme then your game certainly is being hurt when you are sent home or to the jury.

Again, no one is paying any price. Tiffany is literally targeting a woman of color right now. They aren't trying to trample the competition. They almost all have legitimate side deals with people outside the cookout. They aren't a mob of people out to get white people out of the house. At best, once certain people in the cookout get brought up potential eviction, they try to steer the discussion elsewhere. That's pretty much it. This whole thing is being made a bigger issue than it is. In my opinion.

But, I don't want to derail this episode discussion anymore.

Like I said above, this season feels wide open in a way it hadn't felt in years. Watching this episode, you see a smattering of good game play, great comp players that can protect themselves and less of a popularity contest. I mean, it still is a popularity contest, but it's more of a personality thing than anything else.

 

[Halting Hex]

6 hours ago, Racj82 said:

[The Cookout is],  literally, no different than women coming in the house and wanting to form an all female alliance to protect themselves from the constant barrage of guys trying to run over and dispose of women in the house.

I can think of two distinctions immediately.

• Almost certainly the entire purpose of female alliances is to combat the men's physical advantage.  (Despite many men in past male alliances being utter jackholes, women have rarely felt targeted for their femininity, per se; they've worried about being unable to compete.)  Here we saw Tiffani and Hannah urging DereX to target his allies, but not Xavier or Kyland (despite their both having won HoH).  No, their choices for vulnerable pawns are Britini and Sarah Beth, pretty much the antithesis of "comp beasts".  (Yes, SB was smarter than Frenchie and Brent, once. But still.)

• While women may want female alliances to generally get the advantage of numbers, they're not averse to working with individual males, one-on-one.  I refuse to believe that every such "duo" is simply a case of "dumb slut gets dickmatized" or what ever misogynist spin people apply to women who choose showmance over gender solidarity.  There's an IMO obvious case for prioritizing a single close partnership over membership in a larger group where being shunted to the bottom of the totem pole might have you out of the House in the midgame.

Here, despite Tiffani's identifying close relationships with non-Cookout members as "partners", nobody is working to protect their own specific pairing.  Did we see Azah trying to shield Britini, or Kyland Sarah Beth?  Nope.

Quote

This is a position forced upon them. Anyone watching the show have seen the struggles POC have had in the house. 

Well, I'm not convinced that past difficulties "force" PoC to form a purely racial alliance.  There's no reason a smaller bloc couldn't have taken equal power in a multi-ehtnic alliance.  For example, Xavier/Kyland could have joined with Christian and Travis in a traditional Meathead "Four Studs Run this House!" Bro Squad.  No worries about being isolated, but not this explicit segregation, either.

Quote

They also aren't forging together to get rid of another group.

Really?  Obviously the Cookout isn't going to target African-Americans, since they encompass all of those in the House, but I can't help notice they're only going after the white HG, specifically, and ignoring the other minorities.  (Latina Alyssa, Asian-American Derek X.)

Did I hear a whisper of a thought to take out Alyssa when she was on the block Week 1?  No, even though the potential danger of a "Chrysalis" showmance had already been identified.

Once Derek X had shown himself to be a comp beast, did Xavier spend his HoH targeting him?  No, he included DX in his side Royal Flush alliance.  Did anybody second Whitney's "backdoor the threat, look how smug he's getting" argument last week?  Not that I heard.

(And while I find Derek X personable, he seems more and more untrustworthy from a pure game perspective.  It sure didn't take much convincing to get him to target his own alliance this week, handshake deal with Xavier or not.)

While DereX is safe this week as HoH, I didn't hear any suggestion to put up Alyssa, not even from Tiffani and Hannah who have felt threatened by her.  Yes, DX had given her safety…but he was being urged to break his word about the Kings in general, why not Alyssa specifically?  Where's the "she's too dangerous to ignore, look how close she came" push?  Where's the "you can't leave her safe, she might win Veto and leave noms the same to protect Christian, but if you put her up she'd have to save herself" argument?  Instead, it's Britini and SB, verrry predictably, IMO.

And while it's true that in Week 1, whites comprised 8/10 of the non-AA, non-Cookout HGs, those odds have diminished with each white HG evicted.  From 8/10 to 7/9 to 6/8 to 5/7 to 4/6 (effectively 3/5 with Clair safe) this week.  Next week, when Clair suffers her almost certain "you wanted safety until Jury?  Yeah, well, enjoy Jury, bitch!" execution, the white HGs will comprise a mere 60% of the non-Cookout.  Yet I'd estimate Clair's odds of going as considerably higher.  JMO.

On a pure numerical basis, the odds of four white HGs in a row being evicted is only 3.8%.   Even excluding the Cookout from the calculations (since there's nothing wrong with loyalty), the odds of DereX and Alyssa staying untouched while Travis/Frenchie/Brent/Whitey, er, Whitney get the chop is only 1/3.  If Christian and Clair are the next two victims, the odds on six Caucasians in a row be evicted by nothing but chance drop to 13.3%.  Longer shots than that have come in, of course, but it would take a less-cynical opinion than mine not to see a "Get Whitey!" agenda in play.

Again, all JMO.  And it's not as if I want to be the spokesperson for the Society to Preserve Caucasian Houseguests.  (I was raised Jewish and didn't admit my atheism until age 46;  I'm sure I'd be no more welcome in the local Good Ol' Boys alliance than Kyland.)

But I call them as I see them, and that's what I'm seeing.  You are free to disagree.  (Obviously.)

Edited August 9, 2021 by Halting Hex

[Ms Blue Jay]

Only 6 out of 16 BB players this season form The Cookout.  🙄.  6 out of 16 players never had an advantage coming into the house.  It's a small minority. They had to purposely band together and stick together through every week.  Many alliances fail.  So far this one has stuck together.

Acting like the big bad POC are so terrible and run this game with their advantages is a bit much.  There is a huge difference between a Black alliance versus a white alliance like last year.  Has a Black alliance ever been successful on an American reality show, ever? I would love to hear of the examples.  Whereas I've seen many white alliances be successful for the past 20 years on all of the different shows I've watched, including BB last year.

I agree, it would be the same if women were grouping together, just as an example.  All men are not always better at all women at comps so that argument doesn't apply.  BB experts I'm sure are able to cite the comps where women usually do better than men.  

Once again, 6 players out of 16 found something to bond over to make an alliance and so far it's successful.  It was a great strategy for them.  So what?  Sarah Beth could have made an alliance with other people in the house based on something besides being Kings, but didn't.  Same with Britni.  Same with any other white person.  But they just didn't.  

Reality show alliances are at least as old as season 1 of Survivor from the year 2000, maybe even older.  I find it interesting that apparently it's okay when men, white people, women, people from a certain place or city (didn't Cody and Enzo bond on being from Jersey? Why do I not remember anybody being upset about that?) do it, but when Black people bond together to form a group suddenly it's scary and bad and "looks bad" and is unfair. 

Also, last year with an all star season, many of the BB guests had history together.  This new crop of BB houseguests don't know each other whatsoever.  To be successful on this show you need an alliance and an alliance can't be built on nonsense or thin air or it won't stick.  The Cookout forms an alliance based on something tangible, a real bond, and that's why it's working so far.

Also, how often do opportunities like this on an American reality show happen?  6 out of 16 houseguests being Black is actually pretty diverse casting for America.  (It's not even THAT diverse.  There's no rule stipulating white people must make up the majority of American reality show casts.)  I'm sure it's harder to form such an alliance when Black or POCs count up of 1 person per cast or 2 people per cast which I'm sure has happened way more often.  Obviously much easier to form white alliances and that's why they were done all the time - even Season 1 of Survivor, Richard's alliance, was a white alliance.  They just didn't say it was.  There were just no non-white people on their entire team!

Edited August 9, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[peachmangosteen]

7 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I'm really enjoying this season in that I don't feel like I know who will win. 

This is really an awesome change from the previous few seasons, and particularly last season when it was abundantly clear from night 1 that Cody would win.

[Halting Hex]

18 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I find it interesting that apparently it's okay when men, white people, women, people from a certain place or city (didn't Cody and Enzo bond on being from Jersey?) do it

I'm reasonably certain that there's never been an explicit "Whites rule!  God bless mayonnaise and Taylor Swift!" alliance.  And that any alliance with even a hint of such origins has been quickly decried.

It's not that the Cookout is uniquely evil.  It's not even that they're "just as bad".  I'm just saying it's "close enough to be NaGL", or as I wrote before "IMO this doesn't look any better in reverse".  Again, that's just my perspective.  I'm not trying to force it on anyone.

(And while there are certain female-oriented comps, there are enough that rely on brute strength that women are more concerned about male "beasts" than the converse, as far as I've seen.  Jackson sure didn't comp his way through on brainpower, I'm fairly certain.)

Edited August 9, 2021 by Halting Hex

[Ms Blue Jay]

Just now, Halting Hex said:

I'm reasonably certain that there's never been an explicit "Whites rule!  God bless mayonnaise and Taylor Swift!" alliance. 

They don't say it out loud, but the majority of successful alliances we've seen on reality television since its inception have been white. 

[Halting Hex]

26 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

There's no rule stipulating white people must make up the majority of American reality show casts.) 

No "rule", but hardly unexpected in a 70% white country.  Both from a "represent the audience" p.o.v. and from a "result of a colorblind selection from the applicant pool" one.  Absent an agenda in the casting, that's just the most-likely result.

Quote

Season 1 of Survivor, Richard's alliance, was a white alliance.  They just didn't say it was.  There were just no non-white people on their entire team!

Hatch and co didn't group up because they were white; they were a producer-created tribe.  I saw absolutely zero evidence that Pagong (the opposing tribe) was less-loyal to African-American Gervase, much less that his race even entered into the conversation.

(Indeed, Gervase was one of the most popular castaways, and the last to be Pagonged, IIRC.)

[Ms Blue Jay]

These are just double standards.  It's okay one way but I don't like it the other way.  The optics are still the same, no matter what "label" they give their alliance.  

Colleen was the last to be Pagonged. 

Reality shows never have to do what is "expected" in terms of casting.  BB has been on for 23 seasons, there's no danger of them being cancelled. Insisting on a white majority cast on the show makes no sense in Season 23.  The white audience has seen the reflection of their own faces for 23 seasons now.   And if producers are so terrified of being cancelled that they refuse to cast a majority of POC for one season, then maybe their show is out of touch in 2021 anyway.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Halting Hex]

23 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

It's okay one way but I don't like it the other way

You might wish to check the S21 threads.  I quite loudly decried "Camp Racism" aka "Camp Brown People" even though gr8ful wasn't, strictly speaking, a "white alliance".  (As it included Asian-American Isabella and Latina Analyse.)

Easy on the assumptions, if you wouldn't mind.  

(And thanks for the Survivor correction.  I'd mistakenly assumed that the Greg/Colleen showmance meant they were tribemates.  I guess it only blossomed after the merge.  My bad.)

[Blissfool]

6 hours ago, Racj82 said:

No one is paying any price and that's why I find the outrage of the cookout laughable. They aren't targeting white houseguests. They all have genuine bonds and game plans with non black people in the house. They are a group of people looking out for each other. It's not hurting anyone or the games of other people in the house.

The bonds are not genuine. They are inauthentic and created by Tiffany as a smoke screen in order to deflect from the fact that the Cookout alliance exists.

Tiffany said: She will pair with Claire, Hannah/Derex, Kyland/SB, Xavier/Alyssa, Asah/Britini, Deref/none. She wants each of these pairs to be thought of as a duo so that they become targets. When a pair gets nominated, the Cookout member (the black person) will be saved.

[peachmangosteen]

So they’re the Brigade then. It’s literally the same game plan. The Brigade was all white and all male.

[Blissfool]

15 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

So they’re the Brigade then. It’s literally the same game plan. The Brigade was all white and all male.

It's been namedropped by Tiffany.

[Wandering Snark]

The Cookout, as per Tiffany are not a 6 out of 16 alliance, they are a 11 person alliance with a subset that are the 'core' who are all black and 5 individual 'pawns'/'sidekicks' that are designed to be a shield to be voted out for protection one at a time. So, yes, they are definitely target people, they are using people for votes and they aren't a 6 person alliance at all.

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

That's the point, they don't say it out loud.

Why does it need to be said out loud?  We know who is white and who is not.  An alliance that is made of all white people at the expense of non-white people is what it is, factually and simply, whether it is said out loud or not.

Why is it worse that the Cookout is actually naming it?  Whereas the white alliances just pretend it's not about race?  Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.  Sometimes it's said, sometimes it's not.

Minorities banding together in any situation is a reaction.  Women empowering and helping each other is a reaction to oppression.  Minorities banding together is a reaction to oppression.  What is white people banding together?  Something totally, totally different.  That's why The Cookout is not seen as insidious by me or some others.  One cannot pretend white people aligning is "natural and normal" but non-white people aligning is insidious.  That is seeing white people as the default in situations, which is a way of thinking I will not get behind.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

  All I know is what I see on the screen.  If someone is acting like a jerk in the house and it isn't televised, I don't know about. 

That's not what we're talking about here.  You know what a white person is onscreen by them telling you and announcing it.  We know that everyone in Cody's alliance last year was white.  We don't have to check tapes or ask producers.  We see it on the screen.  I don't remember what they called themselves, but it was a white alliance at the expense of everyone non-white in the house.  The Cookout calling themselves The Cookout or making it about them being Black does not make it worse.

45 minutes ago, Wandering Snark said:

The Cookout, as per Tiffany are not a 6 out of 16 alliance, they are a 11 person alliance with a subset that are the 'core' who are all black and 5 individual 'pawns'/'sidekicks' that are designed to be a shield to be voted out for protection one at a time. So, yes, they are definitely target people, they are using people for votes and they aren't a 6 person alliance at all.

The bigger alliance is the Royal Flush.  The 6 person alliance is The Cookout.  I am not sure what you're talking about.  

Again, last year Cody and Nicole made a Final 2 pact.  Cody was going to keep Enzo around and Nicole pretended that she was going to keep her (white) friend around, I don't remember his name.  They each had "Pawns" that they were going to keep around or dispose of (in Nicole's case) as needed.  White people do this all the time.  So it's not weird that The Cookout would have similar plans.  Nicole and Cody didn't even see the POC in the house as pawns to use.  Even worse, they saw them as people not even special enough to be as pawns.  They were just to be shredded from the house ASAP. 

Edited August 9, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Wandering Snark]

38 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

The bigger alliance is the Royal Flush.  The 6 person alliance is The Cookout.  I am not sure what you're talking about.

Nobody regards the Flush as 'real' at this point when making decisions. The Cookout is 11 players not 6, that's the point. Saying it's 6 of 16 is inaccurate, as per Tiffany's speech/reveal, they each (except for DerF for some reason) have a designated sidekick to work with. That means there are 11 people in the Cookout, 6 core members and 5 patsies to protect them via being used if things don't go their way. They don't know it but they are each essential to the Cookout's plans.

[Ms Blue Jay]

How can you say people are in The Cookout when they do not know it exists?

Anyways, I don't really get the point of that argument.  I was defending The Cookout by saying that 6 out of 16 people is a small minority of the house and carries no scary advantage.  You can add all the "patsies" you want to The Cookout but I would think that people should also definitely not be scared of people who don't even know that they're supposedly in the group.  I'm not really sure I get the point of this part of the discussion.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[JayDub1987]

Oh, and where are the people who came at me for saying there's no way DereF was going to be of any use in an endurance comp? "But he does Crossfit!" He lasted nine minutes. Nine. But yes, I was horrible for taking one look at him and figuring out he wasn't going to be fast or able to stand on a tiny, moving, wet platform.

As far as the Cookout, it's racially motivated and exclusive to anyone who doesn't look like them. Their basis for creating the alliance was "we're going to stick together because of our skin color." It's not a debatable point. I'll defer to my African American wife on whether or not it's acceptable behavior. Her take? "If your only answer to racism is more racism, you're not actually concerned about racism." 

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Nobody is debating that the Cookout is bonded together based on race.  Everyone is agreeing on that.  But I disagree with your definition of "racism".

[JayDub1987]

25 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Nobody is debating that the Cookout is bonded together based on race.  Everyone is agreeing on that.  But I disagree with your definition of "racism".

And you're certainly allowed to do that. I'm not sure how you get that forming an all POC group where anyone who isn't a POC isn't allowed in isn't racist, but apparently that's the road you've decided to take. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

[Wandering Snark]

18 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

You can add all the "patsies" you want to The Cookout but I would think that people should also definitely not be scared of people who don't even know that they're supposedly in the group.

And that's exactly why they are so dangerous... they hold the fates of near a dozen people in the game in their hands and yet people don't know they exist. They also don't realize they are being played by a large group, only that they all know who their #1 is and it so happens all of them are in an alliance. The greatest trick the devil ever played is convincing the world he didn't exist.

[peachmangosteen]

Yea, they’re brilliant honestly. Possibly the best ever.

[molotovcupcake]

On 8/9/2021 at 9:49 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

They don't say it out loud, but the majority of successful alliances we've seen on reality television since its inception have been white. 

Thank you; this whole discussion of The Cookout being racist is tiring me TF out. 

[Hanahope]

I know Tiff has said her plan with each member of the Cookout having a "non-cookout partner" but that doesn't mean everyone agrees with that plan.  For the time being, some are going along with that, but that doesn't mean it will happen when someone's partner is put up on the block.  

Given the history of BB, I have no problem with the black contestants banding together to try and get them all to the jury and as far as possible thereafter.  This is the first time that BB has casted more than 2-3 black contestants, and 6 is enough to have a block of voters to work with.  certainly, Slaughterhouse was larger and if it had stuck together could have controlled voting, but people realized that a couple members were not that good as alliancemates - the Cookout could do the same (and there are already some clues that some members don't care for others).  but for now, they have a bond over a common element, which is collectively getting them further in the game. 

most of the time, that's how alliances are form, some common bond, which is often a shared cultural experience.   there is still nothing preventing the Cook-out members from doing other alliances, and they may, which could subplant the Cook-out.  Lord knows we've seen plenty of very successful bro-alliances, which is incredibly boring. the casting of BB in the past has very much supported those type of alliances.   And it took 20 seasons for a woman to beat a man at F2.  Its very nice to see different people doing well this season.

All that said, I am a bit surprised that Derek X didn't put up Azah or Derek F.  Maybe that was due to good persuasion by Tiffany and the relatively ease of putting up Brittany again.