History Of The Sitcom

[cpcathy]

6 hours ago, DanaK said:

Pretty good overview of workplace comedies 

Man, Hal Linden looked rough 

Oh wow, I thought he looked pretty good!

To me, Ted Danson looks the best, the day he starts really aging will be a sad day.

[DoctorAtomic]

I don't think that's Ted's hair, so that helps. 

I thought Linden looked all right. 

I finished a run through of the Mary Tyler Moore show just a couple of weeks ago, so it was fresh in my memory when they did that segment. I'm going to have to call a out the show quitting while it was ahead. The back half of season 7 was uneven at best. 

Taxi is next on my list so I was glad to see it covered here. I was too young for MTM, but I remember catching some of Taxi. I think it was my treat if I got to stay up late. I always felt like Judd Hirsch was underrated in everything he's been in. 

I never really bought that people at work are so much of a part of everyone's lives outside of work. I rarely go out with people from work unless it is work related. 

I had already done a watch of WKRP a couple of years ago. I mean, the turkeys. You can't beat that. 

I'm not going to be like the 70s sitcoms are better than today. Each era had good and bad. However, I just really like the one line zingers, and I don't know if they do that enough anymore or if the art of timing isn't stressed enough. I'll concede that Veep and Arrested Development had impeccable timing. I consistently use  'I know how to give a motherfucking speech' when people think they know how to tell me to do my job. 

'How do you like narcotics?' 'I don't think they're working for him.' 

I had couple I used to use in class, but some wet blanket gave me a libelous evaluation so I had to get rid of them. It doesn't work when you have to make a whole bunch of disclaimers before you say a joke. 

I agree the editing on the show is much better this time around.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by DoctorAtomic

[Snow Apple]

8 hours ago, DanaK said:

FYI, CNN is doing a special on Sitcom theme songs. I believe it premiered yesterday or at least within the last couple of days; check your local listings for repeats

I was looking at the tv grid yesterday but couldn't find it. I thought it was a part of this show, but I guess it's separate?

[DanaK]

37 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

I was looking at the tv grid yesterday but couldn't find it. I thought it was a part of this show, but I guess it's separate?

It’s a separate special

[Snow Apple]

13 minutes ago, DanaK said:

It’s a separate special

Does anyone know if they'll show it again and if so, when? I can't fine anything. Thanks.

[DanaK]

7 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

Does anyone know if they'll show it again and if so, when? I can't fine anything. Thanks.

If you don’t use a DVR, maybe check TVGuide.com/listings for your area

[DoctorAtomic]

Check goCNN too. 

[Racj82]

https://www.facebook.com/cnn/videos/296118132298877/

I found this clip but it's a promotion for the series we are watching. It doesn't say it's something separate.

[DanaK]

11 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

Does anyone know if they'll show it again and if so, when? I can't fine anything. Thanks.

I don't know if this will help, but my DVR is showing the theme song special will repeat on Friday, July 30 at 11pm ET

[The Crazed Spruce]

The theme song special aired just before History of the Sitcom this week. I get the confusion, though, 'cause my DVR had it listed as "CNN Special Report". I had to go into the description to find out if it was the right one.

And it's no doubt gonna go into CNN's rotation, so it'll turn up again at least 30 times between now and Christmas.

[chessiegal]

1 hour ago, DanaK said:

I don't know if this will help, but my DVR is showing the theme song special will repeat on Friday, July 30 at 11pm ET

Thanks. I've got the DVR set to record.

[Snow Apple]

2 hours ago, DanaK said:

I don't know if this will help, but my DVR is showing the theme song special will repeat on Friday, July 30 at 11pm ET

Thanks so much!

Thank you to everyone else too. I’m an old fogey though and have a hard time with websites and apps. If it’s not an easy point and click, I’m lost. LOL

[DanaK]

3 hours ago, The Crazed Spruce said:

The theme song special aired just before History of the Sitcom this week. I get the confusion, though, 'cause my DVR had it listed as "CNN Special Report". I had to go into the description to find out if it was the right one.

And it's no doubt gonna go into CNN's rotation, so it'll turn up again at least 30 times between now and Christmas.

Sorry, I should have indicated it was listed under "Special Report"

[Sarah 103]

On 7/26/2021 at 12:58 AM, Annber03 said:

I felt they kinda rushed through the discussion of the '90s sitcoms a bit in this one, 'cause I can think of quite a few other sitcoms from that would've fit in this hour. "The Drew Carey Show" and "Frasier"-yeah, they balanced the work element with hanging out with friends or family, respectively, but still... "Wings" could've been a good one to mention, too. 

I agree. This is the episode where I thought we might get a mention of Fraiser. Wings had one of the best designed sitcom sets. I once described the show to a friend as Taxi, but at a small airport, not realizing it was the same creative team. NewsRadio is a show that I enjoyed, but I'm not sure if it deserved a mention. 

There was something in this episode that didn't work for me. The discussion on mothers with careers should have been in the episode on family. Yes, Elise Keaton had a job, but I'm not sure we ever actually saw her office much. I can instantly picture the Alan Brady Writers' Room (Dick Van Dyke Show) or the Detective's Squad from Barney Miller in my head. I have no idea what Elise's office looked like. To me, the mother having a job doesn't make it a workplace comedy. I know they were trying to make the transition to Murphy Brown, but I don't think they needed the transition to be as long as it did and mention other shows. 

I had never thought of Who's The Boss as a workplace show, because I don't have a strong visual image of what Angela's office looked like, but I did think they made an interesting case for including the show because the Bower house was technically Tony's workplace. He was employed there as a housekeeper. 

Overall, I liked this episode.

For the people looking to watch the special on TV Theme Songs, on my DVR it was not listed as part of a series but instead as a single program, "Where Have All the Theme Songs Gone." 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Sarah 103

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Sarah 103 said:

Wings had one of the best designed sitcom sets. I once described the show to a friend as Taxi, but at a small airport, not realizing it was the same creative team. NewsRadio is a show that I enjoyed, but I'm not sure if it deserved a mention. 

Oh, god, I didn't even think about "NewsRadio". Yeah. That'd be a good one to discuss as well. 

I can definitely see the similarities between "Wings" and "Taxi", yes :). That creative team has had a pretty nice run, yeah, they were involved in quite a few sitcoms over the years. 

[DoctorAtomic]

9 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

I had never thought of Who's The Boss as a workplace show, because I don't have a strong visual image of what Angela's office looked like, but I did think they made an interesting case for including the show because the Bower house was technically Tony's workplace. He was employed there as a housekeeper. 

They did say it was the first show to flip it with the man keeping the house and the woman with the high powered career. I can see the importance there. On the other, it is fair that it's a family show because Tony was raising his own daughter and the other kid. I mean, most of the shows don't fit into a particular box. You have to put them somewhere though. 

The series isn't over yet. They might show some of these other shows that have been skipped over so far. I would like to know how the decisions are made of which to include. I think it's easier with decades of hindsight to pick Dick Van Dyke, Mary Tyler Moore, Facts of Life; also, it's easier because there weren't as many shows back there. 

I don't know if maybe these good shows that weren't included didn't really change the paradigm. I liked NewsRadio. By any assessment, it was a good show. Did it bring something new to the office sitcom? I'm not so sure. Same with Wings. If it's 'Taxi at an airport', and they covered Taxi, what new ground can you mine with Wings? They may mention them coming up though. I was surprised they covered Facts of Life, but not Different Strokes. If anything, Strokes was the first to do the 'very special episode' than Facts of Life. 

 

[The Crazed Spruce]

Diff'rent Strokes will probably turn up on next week's show about race in sitcoms. Or maybe they'll do an episode about Very Special Episodes (tm)(c) later, and it'll turn up in that.

[Sarah 103]

5 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

They did say it was the first show to flip it with the man keeping the house and the woman with the high powered career. I can see the importance there. On the other, it is fair that it's a family show because Tony was raising his own daughter and the other kid. I mean, most of the shows don't fit into a particular box. You have to put them somewhere though

My issue was that they seemed to put the series in the context of more women having careers, instead of being homemakers, which to me would have fit better in the episode on family. If they wanted to put the series in the context of a man keeping house and making the home a place of paid employment for men, they should have mentioned other shows from the era that were doing something similiar, like Charles in Charge or Full House.

Also, My Three Sons had male family members helping Steve Douglas (first Bub, then Uncle Charley, although they weren't paid), and Family Affair had Mr. French, who served as a combination butler and nanny. 

5 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I don't know if maybe these good shows that weren't included didn't really change the paradigm. I liked NewsRadio. By any assessment, it was a good show. Did it bring something new to the office sitcom? I'm not so sure. Same with Wings. If it's 'Taxi at an airport', and they covered Taxi, what new ground can you mine with Wings? They may mention them coming up though. I was surprised they covered Facts of Life, but not Different Strokes. If anything, Strokes was the first to do the 'very special episode' than Facts of Life. 

I think you made a good point about the series only including shows that did something different or show an evolution of the genre, and while I think they're great shows, NewsRadio and Wings did not do anything drastically new or different. My guess is that Diff'rent Strokes will be covered in the episode on race or the episode on social class. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Sarah 103

[chediavolo]

On 7/26/2021 at 8:56 PM, Snow Apple said:

Does anyone know if they'll show it again and if so, when? I can't fine anything. Thanks.

I can’t find it anywhere either I searched everywhere on my Apple TV

[Snow Apple]

2 hours ago, chediavolo said:

I can’t find it anywhere either I searched everywhere on my Apple TV

A poster above said it will run again on Friday July 30 at 11pm EST. It's listed as a generic "CNN Special Report" and not "Theme Songs" which is why I couldn't previously find it.

[Sarah 103]

I watched the CNN Special Report: Where Have All the Theme Songs Gone, and I was incredibly dissapointed. They didn't have to go chronologically; I would have been totally fine if they had gone by topic/category, but there was almost no discernible organization.

It is nearly unthinkable that they omitted Peter Gunn and Hawaii 5-0, which were among the first TV theme songs to sound not like theme songs but popular songs that could and did get radio airplay and were released as singles that made it into the pop music charts. Also, since they did not say there specifically covering sitcom theme songs, they absolutely should have included a discussion of Post and Carpenter (Rockford Files, A-Team, Greatest American Hero, and many others) who are masters of thier craft and dominated 1980s TV theme songs. 

I did enjoy Don Lemon being goofy, a total fanboy, and getting the people he was interviewing to turn into fanboys and fangirls. That was great. 

[cpcathy]

I recorded it but deleted it not halfway through, when I saw Peter from Brady Bunch is continuing his efforts to remain relevant.

[emmawoodhouse]

42 minutes ago, cpcathy said:

I recorded it but deleted it not halfway through, when I saw Peter from Brady Bunch is continuing his efforts to remain relevant.

Hey, Peter Brady's gotta eat, too! 

[Sarah 103]

46 minutes ago, cpcathy said:

I recorded it but deleted it not halfway through, when I saw Peter from Brady Bunch is continuing his efforts to remain relevant.

Which is strange because he had a sucessful life post show business. He was working for a computer company for awhile (I think it was something to do with software or 3D printing), and he currently designs furniture. Being a former Brady isn't his only source of income. 

[GaT]

Interesting that Malcolm-Jamal Warner stills refers to Bill Cosby as Mr. Cosby.

[Racj82]

35 minutes ago, GaT said:

Interesting that Malcolm-Jamal Warner stills refers to Bill Cosby as Mr. Cosby.

Not really. He's been calling him that since he was a child. It's just always how he's referred to him. Old habits die hard. 

I expected them to talk about the fact that Different World pissed a lot of people off and lost viewers after they decided to open their 6th season with Whitley and Dwayne stuck in the Rodney King riots. 

NBC seemed to forget how big two shows with black casts were for them. That Thursday night line up was anti diverse after 1993.

[letter8358]

It's interesting how black shows started in the 50s! Talk about surprising. I am amazed at the change from Norman Lear to today's sitcoms. Amazing to think that by the 1980s, black shows like The Cosby Show were considered safe. You don't discuss the social issues that were prevalent at that time. It seemed all that changed now.

[DanaK]

The broadcast networks had so many Black shows in the 70s when I grew up and Fox started with a lot of Black shows, but by the time the 1990s and 2000s or so rolled around, the diversity went by the wayside in order to grab a bigger mainstream audience for of course bigger ad revenue. The commenters talked about their pain and frustration that it happened and it was really sad to hear it laid out. Now that streamers have a big slice of the pie, diversity is flourishing again. I worry that the huge amount of shows being produced will collapse when more cable networks and maybe broadcast networks and streamers collapse and the first thing to go will be the huge amount of diverse creators and casts (including women) that this new golden age of TV has brought and revert back to mostly White men 

[Racj82]

2 hours ago, DanaK said:

The broadcast networks had so many Black shows in the 70s when I grew up and Fox started with a lot of Black shows, but by the time the 1990s and 2000s or so rolled around, the diversity went by the wayside in order to grab a bigger mainstream audience for of course bigger ad revenue. The commenters talked about their pain and frustration that it happened and it was really sad to hear it laid out. Now that streamers have a big slice of the pie, diversity is flourishing again. I worry that the huge amount of shows being produced will collapse when more cable networks and maybe broadcast networks and streamers collapse and the first thing to go will be the huge amount of diverse creators and casts (including women) that this new golden age of TV has brought and revert back to mostly White men 

Yeah, speaking as a black man, it hit me years ago how hard tv regressed in terms of diversity over the years. For decades, there was at least some quality presence for people of color. I also don't forget the many many tv movies in the 80s and 90s featuring POC. Dawson's Creek was like the ultimate killer. WB started dropping their black shows like flies. Then, UPN even got in on it, grabbing Buffy and Roswell from them. 

I wish would have took a second to talk about how execs killed Moesha. That was a huge sitcom in POC households. Then, a storyline was pushed on them to have a reveal where the patriarch of the family cheated on his wife before she passes a way, had a child who his sister raised as her son and all of this was revealed after he came to live with them while thinking he was still their cousin/nephew. Sheryl Lee Ralph quit the show over it even though she was the step mom of the house.

They also loved getting to syndication money with those shows but never giving them a final episode. Moesha ended with her little brother being kidnapped for God sakes.

[cpcathy]

I’m still embarrassed that The Jeffersons had white writers. It would have been quite the opportunity for black writers.

[letter8358]

And Norman Lear's Archie character is based on his father, which I did know. I just didn't realize he had so many white writers on those shows. That surprised me!

[Annber03]

9 hours ago, letter8358 said:

It's interesting how black shows started in the 50s! Talk about surprising. I am amazed at the change from Norman Lear to today's sitcoms. 

I was surprised that executives in the '50s were able to realize that "Amos 'n' Andy" using blackface wouldn't go over well on TV. So much for the argument some like to make about how "That's just how it was for so long!" when they attempt to defend their use of blackface in more recent years, huh? Obviously, "Amos 'n' Andy" still had its issues, as discussed here, but still, at least the execs were smart on that issue. 

It's wild to me that we went from the era of Norman Lear's shows, which were controversial and daring and touched on topics that nobody else touched on and all that....and nowadays, a network like ABC gets cowardly and won't air an episode of "Black-ish" that touched on the topic of football players kneeling during the national anthem. It does seem in many ways we were bolder in the past on this stuff than we are now. 

Regarding "All in the Family", I heard a story on a podcast once about how, when they were planning to put Archie's chair in the Smithsonian, there was actually some protest from some people who didn't think his chair deserved to be there, because someone like Archie didn't deserve to be honored. I keep hearing people talk about how a show like "All in the Family" wouldn't fly today, and I don't know whether it would or not....but I also think the people who would be most upset about it nowadays aren't the ones people would expect. I feel like some of the classic sitcom creators and writers would be accused of being "too woke" or "too political" by some corners nowadays (if they weren't already getting those kinds of accusations back then, that is). 

My mom's told me about how her dad couldn't stand "All in the Family" when it originally aired, and she suspects that it was because Archie hit just a little too close to home for him, and he didn't like seeing his own prejudices being reflected back at him so openly like that. 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Annber03

[DoctorAtomic]

6 hours ago, DanaK said:

The broadcast networks had so many Black shows in the 70s when I grew up and Fox started with a lot of Black shows, but by the time the 1990s and 2000s or so rolled around, the diversity went by the wayside in order to grab a bigger mainstream audience for of course bigger ad revenue.

Fox had tons of interesting shows in those early days that only lasted for a year or so. I still think Roc was an excellent show that never got the promotion it should have. 

 

[DoctorAtomic]

2 hours ago, Annber03 said:

It's wild to me that we went from the era of Norman Lear's shows, which were controversial and daring and touched on topics that nobody else touched on and all that....and nowadays, a network like ABC gets cowardly and won't air an episode of "Black-ish" that touched on the topic of football players kneeling during the national anthem. It does seem in many ways we were bolder in the past on this stuff than we are now. 

I said before, there's some kind of feedback loop from society feeding into tv shows and back, and it swings around. I think you have a Normal Lear that's driving the narrative at that time. Now, it may be the other way, as you say, where kneeling gets the show banned. That could be a hazard of chasing too many ad dollars. Frankly, it's cowardly. Hopefully, streaming will stay around. 

2 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I feel like some of the classic sitcom creators and writers would be accused of being "too woke" or "too political" by some corners nowadays (if they weren't already getting those kinds of accusations back then, that is).

No way it would be on CBS for sure. I was aware of All in the Family when I was a kid, but I was still too young to get it. I always thought the point of the show was to show that Archie is in the wrong and these attitudes needs to go. I had no idea people didn't get it. 

"The guy that wrote the bible didn't live in this neighborhood. Locketh thy door!" Just such brilliance. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I get the criticism of Different Strokes, but it was a funny show for a kid in the 80s. 

I never got into Fresh Prince. I think because I was at college and didn't have much access to tv. I loved Martin and In Living Color though. I guess I must have got tv back by then because I watched all those Fox shows. 

Bernie Mac was a great show too, but I been following him since the 80s.

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by DoctorAtomic

[Snow Apple]

Another good episode but I wish they had more on Asians, Hispanics, and other minorities in sitcoms. But sadly, I guess there are not much.

[letter8358]

I really liked All American Girl! Margaret Cho went through some shit from that executive producer that told her lose weight and what would eventually lead to her kidney failure. Asshole! 

[Sarah 103]

11 hours ago, cpcathy said:

I’m still embarrassed that The Jeffersons had white writers. It would have been quite the opportunity for black writers.

It was even worse on Good Times. Network executives told Ester Rolle and John Amos that even though the show was a sitcom, it would deal with real issues and take the black urban experience seriously. There were two main probems with this. The writers' were mostly white and had almost no connection to the world of the show. The second problem was that J.J. became incredibly popular, so the writers began to focus episodes on him, instead of the parents. 

Overall, this was a good episode. I apperciated that they admitted that Amos N Andy is funny, but at the same time horribly racist and drawing on awful stereotypes. 

[Racj82]

4 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

It was even worse on Good Times. Network executives told Ester Rolle and John Amos that even though the show was a sitcom, it would deal with real issues and take the black urban experience seriously. There were two main probems with this. The writers' were mostly white and had almost no connection to the world of the show. The second problem was that J.J. became incredibly popular, so the writers began to focus episodes on him, instead of the parents. 

Overall, this was a good episode. I apperciated that they admitted that Amos N Andy is funny, but at the same time horribly racist and drawing on awful stereotypes. 

Sitcoms go where the money is. If they have a break out star they milk it for all its worth. 

Urkel is another stunning example. 

But it sucks to be a parents in a sitcom featuring teens. They almost always get overshadowed eventually. Shows like Malcom in the Middle notwithstanding.

I'm still shocked that Friends remained a clear ensemble for 10 years. 

 

[The Crazed Spruce]

It's kinda a shame that Ramy was the only show with a Middle Eastern cast to be mentioned, when Little Mosque on the Prairie aired on the CBC for 6 seasons starting in 2007. But I guess they're only focusing on American sitcoms....

[letter8358]

And the idea of streaming such shows on Hulu or Netflix....I find it interesting how streaming is made so easier now.

[ShelleySue]

I thought it was strange that the remake of One Day at a Time wasn't mentioned.

 

[chediavolo]

On 8/2/2021 at 10:15 AM, letter8358 said:

And Norman Lear's Archie character is based on his father, which I did know. I just didn't realize he had so many white writers on those shows. That surprised me!

Well originally this was a British show called “ till death do us part”. I never saw an episode of that one, did he take very many liberties with the established Archie character? 

[Racj82]

On 8/5/2021 at 2:20 PM, ShelleySue said:

I thought it was strange that the remake of One Day at a Time wasn't mentioned.

 

Well, there you go.

They have been actively not trying to have a retread of certain topics through certain shows. Also give some shows spotlight from episode to episode. Most shows are not about one thing so at times, they will have to pick and choose when to feature a show.

Class and wealth has always been such a tricky subject with sitcoms. It goes beyond race. At least we are at a place where being of certain race, culture or background doesn't have to equal poor or downtrodden.

[Sarah 103]

It felt like this episode was mostly covering series they had already covered in earlier episodes. I wished they had spent more time on series they had not included in other episodes like Fraiser or Malcolm in the Middle. Also, if they were going to talk about Rosanne they should have done a better job in this episode of what they contrasting it with, either something really exagerated like Silver Spoons or something more realistic like Growing Pains.

I enjoyed the segment on The Honeymooners. The golf lesson is classic, iconic, and just plain funny. 

[catlover79]

What I really enjoy is many sitcom stars, past and present, talking about not only their own shows, but ones that they were not on. For example - I loved Eve Plumb aka Jan Brady talking about The Honeymooners. She's the only one I can think of off the top of my head right now, but I think you get the idea..

I missed the Don Lemon theme song special. It's not even On Demand that I can see. Dang it! 😡

Edited August 10, 2021 by catlover79

[chediavolo]

7 hours ago, catlover79 said:

What I really enjoy is many sitcom stars, past and present, talking about not only their own shows, but ones that they were not on. For example - I loved Eve Plumb aka Jan Brady talking about The Honeymooners. She's the only one I can think of off the top of my head right now, but I think you get the idea..

I missed the Don Lemon theme song special. It's not even On Demand that I can see. Dang it! 😡

I had it set to record but it never did. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm not quite seeing too much new ground covered in this latest episode much past, they did a whole bunch of sitcoms about the south being hicks so far. I did like the segment on Alice, but it was short. 

I'm watching on the app, and the Honeymooners segment was cut out at the start though. 

"You ain't tall enough to be a basketball player". The actor playing Weesey looked like she totally cracked though. 

[KWalkerInc]

On 8/9/2021 at 8:08 PM, catlover79 said:

I missed the Don Lemon theme song special. It's not even On Demand that I can see. Dang it!

On CNN On Demand, it looks like it's listed under "CNN Special Report" in "Programs."  (I only tried looking under that because that they used the CNN Special Report title when I recorded it, which I never would have known if it hadn't been mentioned here.)

[DoctorAtomic]

On 8/9/2021 at 10:49 AM, Sarah 103 said:

It felt like this episode was mostly covering series they had already covered in earlier episodes. I wished they had spent more time on series they had not included in other episodes like Fraiser or Malcolm in the Middle. Also, if they were going to talk about Rosanne they should have done a better job in this episode of what they contrasting it with, either something really exagerated like Silver Spoons or something more realistic like Growing Pains.

I don't know about the whole direction of the episode. They were just throwing in whatever. All the shows that hadn't been covered already got about 2 minutes.

I do like the monologue at the end of Malcolm in the Middle. It's a great piece of writing - you're not just going to be president, you're going to be the best president. You know why? You're going to put in work.