S19.E15: John McWhorter; Elissa Slotkin; Rick Wilson

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Guests: John McWhorter - professor of linguistics at Columbia University, contributing editor at The Atlantic, and author; Elissa Slotkin - Democratic congresswoman from Michigan's 8th district; Rick Wilson - Republican strategist and author

Original air date 2021.05.07

[DoctorAtomic]

Did you guys know twitter is bad? 

[angelamh66]

I’ve only been sporadically watching the show since it came back after the election. This is mostly because he is stuck in a loop of the same crap and his viewpoint is not educated or supported by facts (i.e. his obesity rants and cancel culture rants). So seeing that McWhorter was a guest I proceeded with caution. And while I think McWhorter is dismissive of many people’s lived experience, I did have to laugh at his mocking of people “doing the work”. His tone just tickled me. I do support people trying to learn more about race and racism but hey, here’s an idea... no need to performatively post about it on social media. 

[DB in CMH]

3 hours ago, angelamh66 said:

I’ve only been sporadically watching the show since it came back after the election. This is mostly because he is stuck in a loop of the same crap and his viewpoint is not educated or supported by facts (i.e. his obesity rants and cancel culture rants). So seeing that McWhorter was a guest I proceeded with caution. And while I think McWhorter is dismissive of many people’s lived experience, I did have to laugh at his mocking of people “doing the work”. His tone just tickled me. I do support people trying to learn more about race and racism but hey, here’s an idea... no need to performatively post about it on social media. 

That's the whole reason I generally stay off of social media. No good can come of it. 

[iMonrey]

I actually thought the panel discussion was fairly good. If they could just steer Bill away from his typical rants he's still capable of having decent conversations.

Quote

This is mostly because he is stuck in a loop of the same crap and his viewpoint is not educated or supported by facts (i.e. his obesity rants and cancel culture rants).

Bill is stuck on this idea that people don't vote for Democrats because they are too woke and too cancel culture. And while there's some truth to that, the reality is that people keep hearing how Democrats are too woke and too cancel culture, so Bill is actually carrying the right wing's water for them by beating this dead horse over and over. He's just making the situation worse, not better.

[DoctorAtomic]

It's really not twitter. Of course, you can use anything to ill ends. It's very easy to block and/or report people and move on. 

In fact, I've used twitter to network with a lot of success. It's certainly good, and I can't believe I'm saying this, for branding, using it properly.  

[arachne]

I was disappointed by Bill's final New Rule. At first I thought he was ranting about right-wing GOP hypocrisy re drugs and wild sex (using Matt Gaetz as an example.) And then Bill turned around on the liberals for being the "uptight" ones nowadays, starting yet another rant about "cancel culture." I hope he was being facetious about wanting to "restore the natural order of things." 

[Thomas Crown]

Decent episode with some interesting points covered although I still can't stand Rick Wilson even if he bashes Trump and gives props to Biden.  I would have preferred the discussion on population growth had been brought up at the beginning of the panel so that more time could have been allocated to it.  I'm on the side that even without increasing the population on the planet, we are still facing some serious crisis over the next few decades just from the damage we've already done to the eco system along with the increasing rate that we are using up so much of the world's natural resources.  IMO, some of the crisis that were are facing on this planet are increasing at an exponential rate that is not mirroring the rate growth of population.  I wouldn't mind if Bill decided to revisit this issue in the futur.   

The interview with John McWhorter was also good.  At one point during their discussion of twitter, wokeness and a trend of thinking that things could never had been worse in the past because they weren't alive back in the day,  Bill countered that he knew about the French Revolution despite not being alive at the time. He referenced guests on his show saying this phrase of "not being alive at the time".  Made me think of this segment from many years ago on his show. 

 

[ahpny]

Humor is dicey and some jokes go too far or fall flat. But dissing the Carters because they appear small in a photo with the Bidens failed on these levels and more. That bit wasn’t funny, but it was gratuitously cruel and ageist in the same way Bill now criticizes out of the other side of his mouth. Even if Carter isn’t the sainted  and selfless ex-president that many believe, and is instead a venal, incompetent one term president that made Reagan possible (as many others believe), making fun of a 96 year old man who’s been fighting cancer for years is unseemly, lazy and crass. And added “points” for throwing the same unfunny “jokes” at his wife.

I’ve never been a Carter fan but even so this crap was offensive and in the worst taste. Maybe some of this could have been excused if it were funny, but it wasn’t.

[DoctorAtomic]

2 hours ago, Thomas Crown said:

Made me think of this segment from many years ago on his show. 

I immediately thought of that. Use of the French revolution was too specific not too. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I’ve never been a Carter fan but even so this crap was offensive and in the worst taste. Maybe some of this could have been excused if it were funny, but it wasn’t.

I hate to defend Bill but this seemed like a rather inoffensive joke about the photographer, not about the Carters. His point was that any idiot teenager with an iPhone could have taken a better picture than this. 

Quote

Bill countered that he knew about the French Revolution despite not being alive at the time. He referenced guests on his show saying this phrase of "not being alive at the time".  Made me think of this segment from many years ago on his show. 

I remember that exchange. But "I wasn't alive at the time so I don't know" is more of a cop-out than an excuse. Just goes to show how lame Meghan McCain really is. 

[ahpny]

6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I hate to defend Bill but this seemed like a rather inoffensive joke about the photographer, not about the Carters. His point was that any idiot teenager with an iPhone could have taken a better picture this.

I didn’t catch that but you’re probably right. That would dial down the “offensiveness” significantly, but not really ramp up the humor all that much. “People take lousy pics” isn’t much funnier than “old people are weird and shrink.” 

Edited May 9, 2021 by ahpny

[DoctorAtomic]

To be fair, the picture was so weird, you kind of had to say something. The joke is just - 'what the hell is this?' It sounded worse than it was because the congresswoman was like, 'ohhhh, the poor Carters!' Which was kind of the joke. 

[BrownBear2012]

On 5/8/2021 at 6:17 PM, iMonrey said:

I actually thought the panel discussion was fairly good. If they could just steer Bill away from his typical rants he's still capable of having decent conversations.

Bill is stuck on this idea that people don't vote for Democrats because they are too woke and too cancel culture. And while there's some truth to that, the reality is that people keep hearing how Democrats are too woke and too cancel culture, so Bill is actually carrying the right wing's water for them by beating this dead horse over and over. He's just making the situation worse, not better.

Bill's just pissed because he's on the verge of being canceled by his peers.

[BK1978]

I do have to laugh how week after week Bill brings up how crazy it is that Republican voters think the Presidential election was rigged/stolen, but he never jokes about how Democrats keep on complaining and to this day still believe that the 2018 Georgia gubernatorial election was stolen.  I think both groups are wrong but it is funny how one side tends to be painted as crazy for thinking the election was stolen and the other side is not.

[wknt3]

On 5/8/2021 at 6:17 PM, iMonrey said:

I actually thought the panel discussion was fairly good. If they could just steer Bill away from his typical rants he's still capable of having decent conversations.

Yes, he is an excellent moderator (which is much harder than it might appear, based upon how many skilled and talented broadcasters fare poorly at it) and a good conversationalist in the all too rare instances when he is actually engaged without going off on a tangent about whatever his latest obsession is. It's why I keep watching along with the show still featuring some interesting guests. And it's why I find it so frustrating - he has the ability to better, he is just lazy and self-absorbed.

 

Quote

He's just making the situation worse, not better.

HBO marketing on line 1. They hear you have the tagline for their new Real Time marketing campaign...

[sistermagpie]

7 hours ago, BK1978 said:

I do have to laugh how week after week Bill brings up how crazy it is that Republican voters think the Presidential election was rigged/stolen, but he never jokes about how Democrats keep on complaining and to this day still believe that the 2018 Georgia gubernatorial election was stolen.  I think both groups are wrong but it is funny how one side tends to be painted as crazy for thinking the election was stolen and the other side is not.

Probably because one side is talking about voter suppression in the form of fewer polling places and laws passed to make it harder to vote, things that are blatantly happening right out in the open right now, and the other is talking about millions of invisible people dumping off bushels of ballots from China, or showing up in buses. 

It's one thing to think they're both wrong to say the election was stolen, but they're not operating on the same level of reality.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Bill's just pissed because he's on the verge of being canceled by his peers.

I sometimes wonder if he's growing a conservative audience who likes to tune in every week to hear him bash Democrats. I'm curious what this show's ratings are like lately. It's possible the loss of some of the more liberal viewers is being made up by newer viewers who lean more to the right.

[meowmommy]

On 5/9/2021 at 6:22 AM, ahpny said:

I’ve never been a Carter fan but even so this crap was offensive and in the worst taste. Maybe some of this could have been excused if it were funny, but it wasn’t.

Jokes about the photograph have been circulating all over the media since it was released.  Not just Bill taking potshots at the photo. 

This was the first episode in eons that I neither FF'd through nor shut off early in utter irritation.  Listened to the whole thing without feeling the urge to throw a shoe.

[BK1978]

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I sometimes wonder if he's growing a conservative audience who likes to tune in every week to hear him bash Democrats. I'm curious what this show's ratings are like lately. It's possible the loss of some of the more liberal viewers is being made up by newer viewers who lean more to the right.

Or is it that people who were considered liberals five or ten years ago are now being pushed out as the party goes further left?  So maybe he is not growing a conservative audience per se, but this new "conservative audience" that he is getting is really just people who are left of center and are deemed conservative due to the liberals begin further left than they once were.

[RealHousewife]

I think Bill longs for the days when he was young and considered the cool liberal guy and could make any jokes without worrying about being canceled. I think because his passion/livelihood is directly affected by the current political climate and culture, he's much more affected the rest of us. He complained about the PC culture in the 90's, so I guess it makes sense why he resents the current culture so much. 

I know conservatives who say he's more tolerable, but I don't know any who'd describe themselves as fans. My guess is his audience is comprised of folks whose politics are similar to his, as well as people further to the left who'll watch even if they don't agree with him on everything, people further to the left who hate watch, and then some conservatives who hate watch. 

I agree with @wknt3 that Bill is a good moderator and conversationalist. While these jobs look easy when they're done by someone with talent, they're not. That's probably why there aren't many shows like Real Time. I wish I knew how Bill would handle being a moderator on The View! lol 

[sistermagpie]

10 hours ago, BK1978 said:

Or is it that people who were considered liberals five or ten years ago are now being pushed out as the party goes further left?  So maybe he is not growing a conservative audience per se, but this new "conservative audience" that he is getting is really just people who are left of center and are deemed conservative due to the liberals begin further left than they once were.

That's how he would describe it, but I don't know that that makes it necessarily accurate. That is, yes, he seems to have mostly the same views as he always did and as new stuff comes up culturally he doesn't always react to it the way other people on the left do. Like he'd rather just stay cool with gay people without having to take trans people seriously because he just not can't see them as extreme whackos who make things difficult.

But it's never been liberal to bring on far right white supremacists and misogynists etc. to agree with them about how they've got a point about how hard people are on their opinions. That's conservative. By definition liberalism and progressivism is going to change with time. You can't be progressive if you're clinging to the values of 40 years ago when you were young. Plenty of people his age have remained progressive and haven't had a problem adjusting to new things. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by sistermagpie

[BrownBear2012]

On 5/10/2021 at 4:13 AM, BK1978 said:

I do have to laugh how week after week Bill brings up how crazy it is that Republican voters think the Presidential election was rigged/stolen, but he never jokes about how Democrats keep on complaining and to this day still believe that the 2018 Georgia gubernatorial election was stolen.  I think both groups are wrong but it is funny how one side tends to be painted as crazy for thinking the election was stolen and the other side is not.

Uh...the Geogia gubernatorial election wasn't stolen...it was rigged. 

[RealHousewife]

38 minutes ago, BrownBear2012 said:

The right "cancels" people and corporations too...Colin Kaepernick was canceled, chastised publically, threatened and no football team has hired him for fear of retribution from the right wing media and MAGA fans. The Republicans are "canceling" the MLB for speaking out against voter suppression laws and pulling the All Star Game out of Atlanta in protest. Where is Bill in their "cancel culture"? 

Oh 100%! As someone who thinks cancel culture can go too far, I really wish Bill would acknowledge this. He acts like the left is full of unforgiving assholes who salivate over the thought of canceling people and those on the right are all nice, live and let live, forgiveness and love types. There should be backlash for usage of the n word, racism, racial insensitivity, sexism, etc. Wanting to cancel people for protesting police brutality or speaking out against voter suppression is ridiculous. 

[BrownBear2012]

52 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Oh 100%! As someone who thinks cancel culture can go too far, I really wish Bill would acknowledge this. He acts like the left is full of unforgiving assholes who salivate over the thought of canceling people and those on the right are all nice, live and let live, forgiveness and love types. There should be backlash for usage of the n word, racism, racial insensitivity, sexism, etc. Wanting to cancel people for protesting police brutality or speaking out against voter suppression is ridiculous. 

He seems to be more upset about “cancel culture” then the attempt to overthrow our government on January 6th. Where’s his outrage about the continuing slow moving coup by the right to overturn the election...he should be ranting about the Republicans in Arizona bringing in a Conspiracy nut job to recount ballots with zero experience in elections or vote counting. Now it’s going to be done in Michigan, Wisconsin, New Hampshire and Georgia. Where’s his outrage about this? 

[heatherchandler]

On 5/10/2021 at 11:30 PM, BK1978 said:

Or is it that people who were considered liberals five or ten years ago are now being pushed out as the party goes further left?  So maybe he is not growing a conservative audience per se, but this new "conservative audience" that he is getting is really just people who are left of center and are deemed conservative due to the liberals begin further left than they once were.

I think this is exactly it.

[heatherchandler]

14 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

 

But it's never been liberal to bring on far right white supremacists and misogynists etc. to agree with them about how they've got a point about how hard people are on their opinions. That's conservative. By definition liberalism and progressivism is going to change with time. You can't be progressive if you're clinging to the values of 40 years ago when you were young. Plenty of people his age have remained progressive and haven't had a problem adjusting to new things. 

“I may not agree with what you say, but I’ll fight to the death for you to be able to say it” had always been a liberal viewpoint.  And it’s always been Bill’s stance.

Edited May 12, 2021 by heatherchandler

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Folks,

Let's stay on topic of what was discussed on the show.  Off-topic posts have been moved to Small Talk.  Yes, Small Talk.  Where all of your off topic dreams come true! 

Note:  The politics rule still applies in Small Talk.  No personal politics please.  General discussions without casting aspersions or name-calling are allowed.  Also, discussion of social issues is allowed in Small Talk.  No cancel culture there! (Well, unless the comment is racist, homophobic or transphobic, then nope.  Uh oh, would Bill call that cancel culture run amok?) 

[sistermagpie]

9 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

“I may not agree with what you say, but I’ll fight to the death for you to be able to say it” had always been a liberal viewpoint.  And it’s always been Bill’s stance.

He's not defending their right to speak. That's not threatened and never has been. He chooses a relatively small number of people to come on his show, all of which already have public platforms that have already given them a measure of fame. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by sistermagpie

[Tara]

On 5/8/2021 at 9:59 AM, DoctorAtomic said:

 

Did you guys know twitter is bad? 

 

Yes, I know.  Twitter is a cesspool of ignorance.