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seltzer3

RW B2NY (2001)

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1 hour ago, seltzer3 said:

Any thoughts about this season.  Been doing a watch through this one.

Where have you been watching it?

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13 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

Where have you been watching it?

Someone has been uploading a bunch on youtube.

 

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Just now, seltzer3 said:

Someone has been uploading a bunch on youtube.

 

I meant to tell you I found it after asking. I asked because I had been looking for this season recently but didn't find it. I watched the og new Orleans season a few months ago.

I was also thinking this week about how one element of the show is still super relevant. The racial issues. Not just with Mike. But, with Malik, Nicole and Coral. They judged Malik and didn't think he could be pro black but date outside of his race.  Black men have to deal with that today. It's a interesting topic either way.

Also, it's crazy how obnoxious Mike has always been but it just morphed into loveable obnoxious over time.

Katie is still one of biggest crushes from the bunim/Murray verse.

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The beginning of the end for me and this franchise. Was watching more out of habit and the NYC porn than anything else. Don’t get me wrong, there were lots of good moments and episodes but it just didn’t grab me the way previous seasons did, especially after the high that was New Orleans. It was just...ok.

At least I stayed watching the whole season. Next year’s Chicago I would only watch on and off, and then once we got to Las Vegas I checked out by the 4th or 5th episode of that series.

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1 hour ago, Hiyo said:

The beginning of the end for me and this franchise. Was watching more out of habit and the NYC porn than anything else. Don’t get me wrong, there were lots of good moments and episodes but it just didn’t grab me the way previous seasons did, especially after the high that was New Orleans. It was just...ok.

At least I stayed watching the whole season. Next year’s Chicago I would only watch on and off, and then once we got to Las Vegas I checked out by the 4th or 5th episode of that series.

We must be twins because I was the exact same! Was pumped for a return to NYC and was still pretty into the season, was on and off with Chicago, and Las Vegas was just so tryhard it was disappointing. 

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So I'm on episode 13.  

Couple of thoughts.

-The whole conflict between Coral/Nicole vs everyone else is pretty interesting.  Especially when it comes to race.  Like the difference in attitudes in how both Coral and Malik treat Mike.  Where Coral really did not want to be the "token black friend that educates" vs Malik is more in the vain of "well someone needs to help someone".  And that Malik told Kevin about issues about Nicole really did not go over well.  I do think Coral/Nicole can be overbearing and snippy, but it does seem like everyone else is a bit of passive aggressive and can't really deal with conflict.  It probably doesn't help that Coral tends to be cutting at times, so naturally the rest of the house probably don't feel like they can approach Coral on other issues.  I can also see why Coral/Nicole are annoyed with Rachel, because she always comes off very babyish.

-So, I did not realize this compared to the last time I watched this season.  But Lori is pretty cringey.  Her interaction with Kevin....um, yeah.  I also got second hand embarrassment of her practicing her singing, and her dramatic response of the rest of the housemates telling her to pipe down.  Her vocal riffs crack me up though.

-Mike was upset at no one but Kevin eating with his parents.  Dear Lord its a good thing Coral, Nicole and Malik didn't go to the restaurant with Mike's parents.  That would have not gone over well!

 

Edited by seltzer3
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Its pretty amazing that Mike and Coral were able to salvage some sort of friendship by the end of the season and beyond.

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11 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

Its pretty amazing that Mike and Coral were able to salvage some sort of friendship by the end of the season and beyond.

That still blows my mind.  I don't remember much about this season, as I didn't particularly like anyone other than Coral (which isn't to say I hated all the others, I just drawn to anyone else), but what I do remember of Mike is pretty unfavorable.

57 minutes ago, seltzer3 said:

I can also see why Coral/Nicole are annoyed with Rachel, because she always comes off very babyish.

I forgot all about Rachel!  Ugh, babyish is right.  That would be a lot to live with.

I'll have to watch at least some of this on YouTube and see what I think this time around.  It was disappointing back then.  (Of course it's a wet dream compared to the Vegas season.)

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13 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I meant to tell you I found it after asking. I asked because I had been looking for this season recently but didn't find it. I watched the og new Orleans season a few months ago.

I was also thinking this week about how one element of the show is still super relevant. The racial issues. Not just with Mike. But, with Malik, Nicole and Coral. They judged Malik and didn't think he could be pro black but date outside of his race.  Black men have to deal with that today. It's a interesting topic either way.

Also, it's crazy how obnoxious Mike has always been but it just morphed into loveable obnoxious over time.

Katie is still one of biggest crushes from the bunim/Murray verse.

OMG, you guys! I have been wanting to rewatch that casting special for forever!

However...I watched it tonight and oof...that did not age well. In a way, it's fascinating because you don't necessarily notice change as it's happening, but attitudes have definitely evolved since this special.

It floors me that people felt comfortable saying things like "my dad said it was fine if I dated a black girl, but I could never bring her home. But now I think that if I brought home a fine black girl, he could let it slide. [followed by some crude discussion of how said white guy could "slide into" said fine black girl] and everyone not only seemed to find it funny, they seemed to applaud it as growth. Like...what??? 

Also, the attitudes toward gay people and really openly homophobic shit they said, it was startling.

And some of the "truth or dare" stuff was so incredibly cringe-y. Like telling the one girl she seemed "slutty and easy, but claimed to be religious and how did she reconcile that?" or "who wouldn't you sleep with?" It just seemed so out of line and at times, cruel. 

I did love the early 00's fashion and hair, that was a fun bit of nostalgia. 

Overall, I stand by my opinion that the ultimate casting choices and where they were placed as far as RW vs RR didn't make sense. There were too many bland "every man" characters chosen (Lori, Kevin, Rachel, Steve, Blair, Malik). I feel like the casting should be mostly extremes of some sort with a blander character thrown in to react to the extremes. There was a lot of potential for conflict among some of the more extreme characters they had in the mix, but they didn't go that route.

And why they went with splitting up Ellen and Coral is an eternal mystery. I guess they were looking for the romance angle with Lori/Kevin and Malik/Nicole (neither of which worked out). 

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22 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

OMG, you guys! I have been wanting to rewatch that casting special for forever!

However...I watched it tonight and oof...that did not age well. In a way, it's fascinating because you don't necessarily notice change as it's happening, but attitudes have definitely evolved since this special.

It floors me that people felt comfortable saying things like "my dad said it was fine if I dated a black girl, but I could never bring her home. But now I think that if I brought home a fine black girl, he could let it slide. [followed by some crude discussion of how said white guy could "slide into" said fine black girl] and everyone not only seemed to find it funny, they seemed to applaud it as growth. Like...what??? 

Also, the attitudes toward gay people and really openly homophobic shit they said, it was startling.

I re-watched the casting special, too, and as pathetic as I found some folks at the time - for their sexism, racism, and homophobia - it is indeed outright startling to look back on.  Not that such bigotry no longer exists, because of course it's still rampant, but the degree to which it was normalized.  Especially among an age cohort that would now, among those selected as final contenders for such a show, not have nearly so many prejudiced people -- even for the sake of drama, no producer of a mainstream show would contemplate trying to get away with casting from among that many close-minded turds.

The homophobia was indeed startlingly blatant (again, not that it was widespread, but that it was normalized to that extent on the show), and it's quite telling that the awful guy who didn't make either show had one non-awful moment, when he simply said that while one might not have a same-sex sexual fantasy, one occasionally wonders hm, I wonder what that's like, and because this was a man speaking, the other guys nearly came out of their hair to deny, no, never!

On a shallow note, I'd forgotten just how goddamned gorgeous Coral is.

I had also completely forgotten that the annoying baby Rachel was not only quite young, but had been freakishly sheltered and controlled by her mom.  Maybe I won't find her quite so unbearable upon re-watch bearing that in mind.

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This article from 2015 pretty much sums up the evolution of Coral and Mike's friendship:

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In the early going, a friendship between these two seemed inconceivable. Mike was a fratty sheltered Ohio kid who was incredibly well-intentioned and outwardly friendly, but who had picked up a lot of dumb ideas, particularly about women and race, during his time growing up. If this season had aired today, we’d all be talking about Mike’s privilege. The awesome thing was that Coral was talking about it. Refusing to worry about reductive labels for angry black women, Coral just refused to let Mike get away with ignorant opinions just because he was a handsome, corn-fed white boy who was easy to like. Their clashes were pretty much the only reason to watch.

What took this relationship from good to great, though, was how it evolved. Mike got better, more thoughtful, more worldly. Coral got less reflexively sneerful with Mike. By the end of the season, all that battling had actually made them closer. The dream of The Real World made manifest! She even took part in the punch-drunk silliness that brought about Mike’s “Miz” persona, which would ultimately lead to him one day becoming a professional WWE wrestler. Yes we can, and yes we did, America.

Also a run down of why the season itself was somewhat underwhelming:

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In some ways, the Back to New York season was a disappointment. The cast has less spark to it than it seemed when it was cast. Malik was a smidge too meek; Lori was a smidge too normal. The designated naif-in-the-big-city, Rachel, didn’t really arc enough; cancer-survivor Kevin was just low-key jerky rather than the sad-eyed heartbreaker they wanted. But maybe the general dud-ness of the rest of the cast was merely cosmic balance for the two planet-sized personalities in the house, Mike and Coral.

Still, it is interesting to see a pre-9/11 NYC, right before the tragedy happened by a few months (the show itself filmed from January 9 to June 2, 2001).

Also, as per 2017, Coral is the only member of the cast Mike still keeps in touch with.

Edited by Hiyo

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In regards to when I fell off real world, the answer would be never.  I watched every season. Enjoyed most of them. Some seasons are duds like the Brooklyn season. 

But, I'm also not the type to complain about MTV changing over the years. They changed with the time. So did MTV.  So did the Real World.

It still was an entertaining show to me. Also, there was almost always things going on under the surface and plenty of real moments. But, people started to look at it as the hook up show when it was never all that. Not even Vegas.

One of my favorite seasons ever is San Diego 1.0 which is decidedly post Vegas. 

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8 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

OMG, you guys! I have been wanting to rewatch that casting special for forever!

However...I watched it tonight and oof...that did not age well. In a way, it's fascinating because you don't necessarily notice change as it's happening, but attitudes have definitely evolved since this special.

It floors me that people felt comfortable saying things like "my dad said it was fine if I dated a black girl, but I could never bring her home. But now I think that if I brought home a fine black girl, he could let it slide. [followed by some crude discussion of how said white guy could "slide into" said fine black girl] and everyone not only seemed to find it funny, they seemed to applaud it as growth. Like...what??? 

Also, the attitudes toward gay people and really openly homophobic shit they said, it was startling.

And some of the "truth or dare" stuff was so incredibly cringe-y. Like telling the one girl she seemed "slutty and easy, but claimed to be religious and how did she reconcile that?" or "who wouldn't you sleep with?" It just seemed so out of line and at times, cruel. 

I did love the early 00's fashion and hair, that was a fun bit of nostalgia. 

Overall, I stand by my opinion that the ultimate casting choices and where they were placed as far as RW vs RR didn't make sense. There were too many bland "every man" characters chosen (Lori, Kevin, Rachel, Steve, Blair, Malik). I feel like the casting should be mostly extremes of some sort with a blander character thrown in to react to the extremes. There was a lot of potential for conflict among some of the more extreme characters they had in the mix, but they didn't go that route.

And why they went with splitting up Ellen and Coral is an eternal mystery. I guess they were looking for the romance angle with Lori/Kevin and Malik/Nicole (neither of which worked out). 

Yeah in terms of the bigotry, poor Sophia.  That must have been so difficult for her to open up to.  And the fact people were freaking out over Jisela/Sophia kissing.

One of the interesting things about the casting special was that Mike/Coral had a conversation about being open to different cultures.  I think of all of the rural white guys, Mike was probably the best choice (because they clearly could have pick another person that Coral would have gotten worse fights with).  I wonder if Mike telling Coral about wanting to learn in the casting specials, and then him talking about "uneducated black people" in the first episode really freaked Coral out.  Hence why Malik came around Mike a lot quicker than Coral did.

I actually thought Jason would have been a good casting choice (the one that helped Coral swim), but I'm guessing he would have been fighting for Mike's spot (but he could have been on road rules).

I felt that Ellen, Coral, Kevin (producers like his cancer story), Mike, Lori, Sophia, Jisela were locks.  

Yeah, I'm kind of surprised that the producers didn't go the extreme route.  However, itt could have gone the really trashy route (of modern real worlds).  Like if you had Coral, Ellen, Jisela, Segun (black guy with white gloves), Mike, Angel (the one who freaked out about Jisela/Sophia kissing), and Dakota (guy who pushed Coral in the pool?)  Like it would have been high ratings.  But I'm not sure if I would enjoy that trainwreck.

Edited by seltzer3

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1 hour ago, seltzer3 said:

Yeah in terms of the bigotry, poor Sophia.  That must have been so difficult for her to open up to.  And the fact people were freaking out over Jisela/Sophia kissing.

One of the interesting things about the casting special was that Mike/Coral had a conversation about being open to different cultures.  I think of all of the rural white guys, Mike was probably the best choice (because they clearly could have pick another person that Coral would have gotten worse fights with).  I wonder if Mike telling Coral about wanting to learn in the casting specials, and then him talking about "uneducated black people" in the first episode really freaked Coral out.  Hence why Malik came around Mike a lot quicker than Coral did.

I actually thought Jason would have been a good casting choice (the one that helped Coral swim), but I'm guessing he would have been fighting for Mike's spot (but he could have been on road rules).

I felt that Ellen, Coral, Kevin (producers like his cancer story), Mike, Lori, Sophia, Jisela were locks.  

Yeah, I'm kind of surprised that the producers didn't go the extreme route.  However, itt could have gone the really trashy route (of modern real worlds).  Like if you had Coral, Ellen, Jisela, Segun (black guy with white gloves), Mike, Angel (the one who freaked out about Jisela/Sophia kissing), and Dakota (guy who pushed Coral in the pool?)  Like it would have been high ratings.  But I'm not sure if I would enjoy that trainwreck.

I think if this had been done even a few years later, a few of the more extreme choices would have been cast.

Reality TV still hadn't fully made that pivot yet. 

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1 hour ago, seltzer3 said:

Yeah in terms of the bigotry, poor Sophia.  That must have been so difficult for her to open up to.  And the fact people were freaking out over Jisela/Sophia kissing.

One of the interesting things about the casting special was that Mike/Coral had a conversation about being open to different cultures.  I think of all of the rural white guys, Mike was probably the best choice (because they clearly could have pick another person that Coral would have gotten worse fights with).  I wonder if Mike telling Coral about wanting to learn in the casting specials, and then him talking about "uneducated black people" in the first episode really freaked Coral out.  Hence why Malik came around Mike a lot quicker than Coral did.

I actually thought Jason would have been a good casting choice (the one that helped Coral swim), but I'm guessing he would have been fighting for Mike's spot (but he could have been on road rules).

I felt that Ellen, Coral, Kevin (producers like his cancer story), Mike, Lori, Sophia, Jisela were locks.  

Yeah, I'm kind of surprised that the producers didn't go the extreme route.  However, itt could have gone the really trashy route (of modern real worlds).  Like if you had Coral, Ellen, Jisela, Segun (black guy with white gloves), Mike, Angel (the one who freaked out about Jisela/Sophia kissing), and Dakota (guy who pushed Coral in the pool?)  Like it would have been high ratings.  But I'm not sure if I would enjoy that trainwreck.

I loved Sophia's closing statement (I think it was her) where she casually referenced Ellen's remarks about "fat" people and all of the homophobic, racist garbage she'd heard over their time together and said she hoped they learned something, or would learn something. That was an extreme paraphrase, but it was a well-placed little jab in a friendly tone.

I thought Jason would have been a good choice too and without knowing the storied history of the Coral/Miz evolution, I'd have picked him over Mike, who I've always found annoying. Like his video camera answer in this casting special...barf. But Mike did end up being a good choice in the sense that he was earnestly ignorant. His conversation with Coral and Malik about his uncle not hiring black people? It was a surreal, slow motion trainwreck that he totally did not realize he was causing. He thought he was carefully choosing his words (like using "African-Americans" instead of black or some other descriptor) and I think he believed he was agreeing with them. 

I definitely didn't want to see a house full of jerks, like Segun (the hos vs "real women" diatribe was truly disgusting and another thing I would hope people wouldn't feel so free to say today), Angel, or the guy who lost his mind over the men's fashion show, but there was definitely an imbalance in both groups. Like 2 HUGE personalities and then people either tiptoeing around them or isolating themselves, they didn't have any of those types of personalities that can act as a uniting force among different people (like a RWNY1 Norm or Julie).

Nicole had potential to be interesting but she didn't react well to the living situation and closed herself off. She made some interesting comments in the casting special that made me want to hear more of her thoughts, but either she or the edit of B2NY didn't highlight her that way. I watched the infamous Bobby episode last night and good lord, WHAT WAS THAT? Like, it's so over the top that I end up wondering if she was acting. I just do not see what she saw in that guy and the absolute desperation is baffling.

I also caught the episode where Lori joins a band and that was another super cringe-y episode. The editors definitely did not do Lori any favors, between airing every single rambling thought about the alleged sexual tension between herself and Kevin and airing every off-key clip of her singing and then this embarrassing "I'm in a band" storyline. Those guys were so clearly interested in Lori for reasons other than her singing, it was hard to watch her crow about acing her audition when it was obvious she could have gotten up there and whistled through her nose and still "made it" into that band.

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Still, it is interesting to see a pre-9/11 NYC, right before the tragedy happened by a few months (the show itself filmed from January 9 to June 2, 2001).

I totally remember the disclaimer they'd air before every episode about how they chose not to edit anything out as a testament to the resilience of the country. There were definitely A LOT of shots of the towers included in this footage.

And it always fascinated me how close the RW came to actually being in NYC on 9/11, which would have been horrifying, but certainly a unique time capsule of that particular moment.

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Nicole trying to hook up with Bobby in that episode was kind of funny to watch, in a train wreck kind of way. Even after throwing up, she still kept trying to get with him, which, just throw in the towel already lol

Lori lusting after Kevin got really sad quickly, but also ended up becoming a bit creepy. Even Stevie Wonder could see nothing was going to happen between them. To Lori, denial really was just a river in Egypt.

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2 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Nicole trying to hook up with Bobby in that episode was kind of funny to watch, in a train wreck kind of way. Even after throwing up, she still kept trying to get with him, which, just throw in the towel already lol

That's one of the few things I remember of the season, Coral trying to fix her up and saying he's not going to kiss you if you keep puking.

2 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

I thought Jason would have been a good choice too and without knowing the storied history of the Coral/Miz evolution, I'd have picked him over Mike, who I've always found annoying.

Yeah, since I barely remember the cast members, I surely didn't remember the rejects, but re-watching the casting special, Jason and Mike were similarly sheltered and somewhat-similarly looking to broaden their horizons (Mike seemingly just had this realization in Palm Springs, while Jason had already opened his eyes back home) and Jason was a lot more interesting than Mike. 

But I kind of like that, as exploitative as these shows always were, they didn't choose Jason because Coral had made out with him, or put Ellen on RW instead of RR because she and Coral had publicly clashed (before, upon being cast in they knew not which, agreeing to try to handle their differences better).

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I forgot about the gender divide this season. There was even more divide within the groups but I forgot that the split was that hard.

I would have hated the A & R job. It just looked boring and frustrating.

 

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2 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

I would have hated the A & R job. It just looked boring and frustrating.

At the time this aired, I was about five years into working for a record label, although not in A&R.  They were such low-level interns (which, of course, makes sense) that, as I recall, they got shitty tasks and stuff I'd never heard of an actual A&R street team doing.

Was Nicole the one who couldn't pronounce the label name (Arista)?

I hated the job thing in general; I understand why they implemented it to force the roommates to spend more time together, but it just made The Real World less real - they were more castmates than roommates once that happened.  And some of the jobs really sucked, at least in terms of my interests.  This one wouldn't have been awful compared to some of the others (the Boston job working with kids?  I'd have gotten myself fired, too), but it's still not something I'd have wanted to have to do, even in exchange for free NY rent.

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23 minutes ago, Bastet said:

At the time this aired, I was about five years into working for a record label, although not in A&R.  They were such low-level interns (which, of course, makes sense) that, as I recall, they got shitty tasks and stuff I'd never heard of an actual A&R street team doing.

Was Nicole the one who couldn't pronounce the label name (Arista)?

I hated the job thing in general; I understand why they implemented it to force the roommates to spend more time together, but it just made The Real World less real - they were more castmates than roommates once that happened.  And some of the jobs really sucked, at least in terms of my interests.  This one wouldn't have been awful compared to some of the others (the Boston job working with kids?  I'd have gotten myself fired, too), but it's still not something I'd have wanted to have to do, even in exchange for free NY rent.

Its interesting where Coral and Nicole were viewed as being lazy (which was probably true).  But it just seemed like it was a job that they didn't really care for (not into desk jobs).  But once they were given tasks like, finding focus groups/advertising talking to customers/designing displays then they were interested and involved. 

I think the problem with B2NY is that everything just seemed a bit of a downer.  There was very few lighthearted or funny moments.  Like I wished Rachel's mullet scene actually had made it into the actual series and probably would have made B2NY more memorable.  Coral calling Rachel an endangered species of ugly never gets old.

 

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It does make you wonder whether a disappointing season should blamed on the cast or on that season’s show runners.

I mean overall this cast seemed to have genuine affection for each other and were mostly sad when they left each other in the final episode (as opposed to the LA cast who couldn’t seem to run away from each other fast enough).

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16 minutes ago, seltzer3 said:

Like I wished Rachel's mullet scene actually had made it into the actual series

Oh my - roommates falling over in laughter back home was hilarious.  Why on earth did Rachel walk out like that instead of telling the stylist that's not what she wanted?  I mean, she paid someone to make her look like that.  I guess she was too scared to speak up, and figured she got the color she primarily came in for, so she can just go home and fix the style. 

Heh, I'm still laughing.  That "guy at the fair" hair was so bad! 

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23 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Nicole trying to hook up with Bobby in that episode was kind of funny to watch, in a train wreck kind of way. Even after throwing up, she still kept trying to get with him, which, just throw in the towel already lol

Lori lusting after Kevin got really sad quickly, but also ended up becoming a bit creepy. Even Stevie Wonder could see nothing was going to happen between them. To Lori, denial really was just a river in Egypt.

I feel like the editing made much of Lori's crush than it should have. In the couple of episodes I saw on Youtube, it seems pretty clear that Lori just wanted to hook up with him and wasn't actually that interested in him. She even says "we should hook up NOW before the attraction fades..." and things like that. But Kevin had decided he was going to be prim and proper or he just wanted to look like a stud to have this girl chasing him or whatever and the editing gave him exactly the storyline he was probably hoping for, which irritates me. 

Kevin is in the Squarehead Kyle (RW Chicago), or MJ (RW Philly) camp for me, privileged white boys with very particular ideas about women and who are convinced that they can't "encourage" women they're attracted to/who are attracted to them because then those poor hapless women will just FALL IN LOVE FOREVER AND EVER and then they'll have to break their hearts because they're such incredible guys. They'll secretly reciprocate the attraction, but they always have to spell out very carefully to the camera that they're just being nice and of course they don't want an actual relationship. And the editing always seems to oblige these guys by making the women out to be crazy stalkers and airing every single piece of footage or interviews the girl has ever done about the guy, spliced in with footage of the guys being like "nah, bro]" in their own interviews.

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I think the problem with B2NY is that everything just seemed a bit of a downer.  There was very few lighthearted or funny moments.  Like I wished Rachel's mullet scene actually had made it into the actual series and probably would have made B2NY more memorable.  Coral calling Rachel an endangered species of ugly never gets old.

That was so great, thanks for posting! Rachel's midwestern accent getting stronger and stronger as she details the experience "I'm from the 80s and I live in a trailer park MULLET," hilarious.

Another part of this series that I didn't care for and what felt like the beginning of the slide into the sleaze that was the Vegas season was when the RR cast visited. Jisela making all the girls kiss and videoing it all and the general fratty atmosphere of that whole thing. Besides seeming needlessly sleazy, it was just a downer. Like poor Malik getting dogged for not wanting to be part of Jisela's porn directing experience and being hurt that she completely ignored him.

Though it did give us the classic "Get off the ho train Jisela, cause you're the only one on it, okay?" moment from Coral. Coral was always at her best when she was defending others. 

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I was too young to watch this season when it aired. I always wanted to see the casting special since people have always talked about it and wow it lived up to the hype even if it aged badly. I'm surprised Segun wasn't cast since he seemed to be Mr. Drama.

I remember I watched some of this season either on YouTube or a marathon before the first season of San Diego premiered and finding Lori's recaps on her site she said the Kevin bit was fabricated and often complained about the editing didn't show much of the friendships during that season especially her and Coral.

Nicole was always the most interesting person to me because they never really cast anyone like her before or after her season. Coral always seemed so much older to me. I had no idea she was just 21/22 when this season was filmed. It is kind of amazing how diverse both Road Rules/Real World were this season. It's too bad they didn't more to connect future Real World/Road Rules cast maybe it would have saved Road Rules.

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Yeah the editors I feel like did a lot of more "telling" instead of showing.  Like we as an audience had to do a lot of connecting the dots in assuming everyone's relationship.  I will give my more thoughts later, since I just finished.  But its really weird when everyone was talking about how close they were in the last episode....and we didn't really see them grow close at all (with a few exceptions like Kevin/Lori/Coral/Mike hanging outside).

Also this clip should have made it to the final show.  I forgot that both Rachel and Nicole were both vegans.  There was an unaired clip how the rest of the roommates were annoyed in how to accommodate them.  The other unaired scene I remember was that Coral was a total neat freak, and the roommates would actually drag her away from cleaning everything.

 

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Youtube really has a ton of episodes of this season, so I've watched a bunch more. I mostly find the early 2000s fashion nostalgic and frankly, much nicer than current fashion, but the one thing I'm noticing is the horrible, pencil-thin eyebrow trend. Why was that a thing? 

The best/worst example is Mandy Moore, look back at her photos from her musical debut vs how she looks on This is Us, the thicker eyebrow is so much more flattering.

But Lori, Coral, and Nicole are all sporting that pencil thin eyebrow look in this season and it's so unflattering

 

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I've re-watched about ten episodes of this, and a lot of memories are coming back.  Producers clearly ran with a sexist characterization of Lori, but goddamn, did she give them a lot of footage to work with.  I love how Coral was always trying to point out none of these guys were worth the thought and effort she put in to the crushes.

One of the few thing I remembered, and greatly enjoyed revisiting, was Coral inviting Mike to call up his friend and reveal he'd called her and her friends panty droppers and someone so stupid he felt dumber (um, that's possible?) after being around her, and ask her which she found more rude - those comments, or Coral's dismissive "peace" upon meeting them.  I cannot fucking stand Kevin, but his "This round goes to Coral" was funny.

I also remember Coral and, especially, Nicole, taking Malik to task for presenting as one type of Black man and acting as another, explicitly saying there wasn't anything inherently wrong with the latter, but the disconnect was very confusing and made the presentation feel like a front.  Interesting conversation then, and now.

I had completely forgotten what a hard life Nicole came from. 

On 4/12/2021 at 9:42 AM, ljenkins782 said:

Though it did give us the classic "Get off the ho train Jisela, cause you're the only one on it, okay?" moment from Coral.

So that is indeed still to come?  Because I have such a distinct memory of that (one of my few), but when it didn't appear in the RW/RR casting special or the Morocco episode (in which Jisela wasn't even there; it was Katie), I thought I was fabricating a really odd thing.

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Is Parma really as racist as Mike said it was? I'm only asking because the way MJ talked about Vanderbilt/Nashville you would think it was a small school in the middle of nowhere. I was in middle school when Philadelphia aired and a few years later when I was looking at colleges was shocked that Vanderbilt was a big academic institution. 

I think the only cast member that was similar to Nicole was Arissa in Vegas. I hope Nicole is doing well. It's hard to find any info about her and Rachel.  

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16 hours ago, choclatechip45 said:

Is Parma really as racist as Mike said it was? I'm only asking because the way MJ talked about Vanderbilt/Nashville you would think it was a small school in the middle of nowhere.

Parma, at least when I lived there, is very white.  Much like a lot of NE Ohio, it has a large eastern European community.  Back in the 70s and 80s, the joke about Parma was "all that's there are pink plastic yard flamingos, kielbasa, and people who wear white bobby socks."  It didn't seem much different when I moved back to the area in the late 2000s.   Mike actually reminds me of the gross dudebros I went to HS with in St Pete FL.  

The few re-watches I've done on RW seasons, I never catch them in any order or season, but this season felt like a big ol' bucket of try-hard. From both the cast (trying to be "better" than the OG NY cast and/or trying to land a career) AND the producers.  Maybe by the time this aired, I'd already become old and cranky and wanted these kids to get off my lawn. 

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I hope Nicole is doing well. It's hard to find any info about her and Rachel.  

According to some unverified sources, she could be living in NYC with her son and teaches yoga.

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2 hours ago, ALittleShelfish said:

Parma, at least when I lived there, is very white.  Much like a lot of NE Ohio, it has a large eastern European community.  Back in the 70s and 80s, the joke about Parma was "all that's there are pink plastic yard flamingos, kielbasa, and people who wear white bobby socks."  It didn't seem much different when I moved back to the area in the late 2000s.   Mike actually reminds me of the gross dudebros I went to HS with in St Pete FL.  

The few re-watches I've done on RW seasons, I never catch them in any order or season, but this season felt like a big ol' bucket of try-hard. From both the cast (trying to be "better" than the OG NY cast and/or trying to land a career) AND the producers.  Maybe by the time this aired, I'd already become old and cranky and wanted these kids to get off my lawn. 

Thanks that makes sense! 

2 hours ago, Hiyo said:

According to some unverified sources, she could be living in NYC with her son and teaches yoga.

I saw that when I googled her last night! I think it is pretty cool Nicole has lived in NYC since that season aired. I remember reading she was in an NYU graduate program after her season ended. I saw that Rachel owned a clothing line at one time. 

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It was nice of Coral and Lori to play along - as Coco Loco and Teriyaki Terror - when Mike started doing his Miz shit.  I'd have just noped right out of there and told my friends about this fucking lunatic I'm living with, but they got down with it and had a good time.  It's hard to believe he's made an entire living out of that persona, but good for him, I guess.

Mike: I wish the rest of the roommates had wanted to come to dinner with my parents.
Mike's dad: Spouts racist, "alternative facts" version of Cleveland history at dinner.
Me: Gee, I can't imagine why only Kevin wanted to be part of this.

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So finished the series.  

Some thoughts.  I've said this before but its really weird when everyone was talking about how close they were in the last episode....and we didn't really see them grow close at all (with a few exceptions like Kevin/Lori/Coral/Mike hanging outside).  For example you had Coral talked about how Lori was amazing and they are good friends.  Except you never really saw them hang out together individually.  Yeah its weird because its like the producers just kind of assumed that we connected all the dots.

The irony to about the last episode about how close they were as a group was the fact that they spent the last week with Jisela, Blair and a bunch of people from the casting special.  Lol they really tried to make that casting special happen.  That whole episode was so weird.  It took a series in a direction I was not expecting (especially with the Malik/Jisela) situation.  Jisela withstanding I do like Malik.  To have a more introverted african american male was a good thing.

I don't hate Kevin as much as a lot of people do here ( I think he can be pretty insightful).  But I'm perplexed by his storyline (or lack thereof).  Its super weird because in the casting call, he was probably one of the most visible castmembers (talking about his cancer and his romance with Lori).  He was probably the top pick to be on the cast (along with Coral).  And then he just completely disappears in the series.  I get that there are people who are boring or more introverted etc.  But it seemed like the editors didn't seem to try.  Like we don't even know who his family is, or backstory is.  Like every other castmember either had a family member visit/phone call (Malik, Mike, Rachel), or would be referenced (Nicole, Coral.).  We get nothing from Kevin which is super weird.

The Coral/Rachel dynamic was pretty interesting.  Like I can see why both of them really did not see eye to eye.  Rachel was super sheltered, while Coral was forced to grow up really fast.

 

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23 hours ago, seltzer3 said:

So finished the series.  

Some thoughts.  I've said this before but its really weird when everyone was talking about how close they were in the last episode....and we didn't really see them grow close at all (with a few exceptions like Kevin/Lori/Coral/Mike hanging outside).  For example you had Coral talked about how Lori was amazing and they are good friends.  Except you never really saw them hang out together individually.  Yeah its weird because its like the producers just kind of assumed that we connected all the dots.

The irony to about the last episode about how close they were as a group was the fact that they spent the last week with Jisela, Blair and a bunch of people from the casting special.  Lol they really tried to make that casting special happen.  That whole episode was so weird.  It took a series in a direction I was not expecting (especially with the Malik/Jisela) situation.  Jisela withstanding I do like Malik.  To have a more introverted african american male was a good thing.

I don't hate Kevin as much as a lot of people do here ( I think he can be pretty insightful).  But I'm perplexed by his storyline (or lack thereof).  Its super weird because in the casting call, he was probably one of the most visible castmembers (talking about his cancer and his romance with Lori).  He was probably the top pick to be on the cast (along with Coral).  And then he just completely disappears in the series.  I get that there are people who are boring or more introverted etc.  But it seemed like the editors didn't seem to try.  Like we don't even know who his family is, or backstory is.  Like every other castmember either had a family member visit/phone call (Malik, Mike, Rachel), or would be referenced (Nicole, Coral.).  We get nothing from Kevin which is super weird.

The Coral/Rachel dynamic was pretty interesting.  Like I can see why both of them really did not see eye to eye.  Rachel was super sheltered, while Coral was forced to grow up really fast.

 

I remember Lori mentioning that in her recaps that most of the cast was disappointed that the Casting Special people were coming with such little time left in the house.  

Has there been any other season with such a divide between the guys/females in the house? I think the main problem with this season is that the group just didn't gell well together and they didn't have one person who got along with everyone. The closest is probably Lori, but she wasn't that close to Nicole from what I remember from her recaps she didn't have a one-one conversation with Nicole until they drove back from Boston. I wonder how different this season would have been if they had switched Kevin/Blair since Blair seems to be one of those people who can get along with anyone. 

Also, I remember hating Mike during the first time I watched this season and I don't really hate him this time he just comes off sheltered and immature. I'm not excusing his comments about his Uncle at all and agreeing with his uncle, but at least he was able to learn why Coral called him out on it since I doubt Coral would have been that close with him if he hadn't. I remember one of my friends older siblings telling me that Mike visited her college for a speaking engagement a couple of years after the show and someone asked about Rachel and he said she never answers his AIM Messages for some reason that makes me laugh.  

 

Edited by choclatechip45
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I barely remembered this season, but I enjoyed it on re-watch -- they were all nice, well-intentioned, normal people.  Kevin didn't seem to grow any, but I was impressed by how many of the rest of them used this experience of having to live and work with people not of their own choosing to adjust some things about their usual mode of interacting with people, and forced themselves to try to understand where someone with very different experiences from theirs was coming from. 

And I don't think I gave Mike enough credit the first time around, as evidenced by Coral remaining friends with him all this time - he dropped the defensiveness, and really did listen and learn when someone explained why something he said was offensive.  He understood how insular the environment he came from was, and was grateful this experience was going to permanently change his viewpoint.  I hope he really did do what he said he would upon getting back home, which is challenge his bros and his family when they spewed racism.

I love Nicole saying goodbye to the guys by jokingly yelling at them and putting her fingers in their face (I needed one last "point blank period" though) and Lori saying goodbye to Kevin by joking that she's sorry she didn't return his feelings but is glad he was able to get past it. 

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On 4/10/2021 at 9:03 AM, seltzer3 said:

Someone has been uploading a bunch on youtube.

 

Thank you so much! I’ve been wanting to re-watch this! Now if only someone could upload Hawaii. 

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3 hours ago, LemonSoda said:

Thank you so much! I’ve been wanting to re-watch this! Now if only someone could upload Hawaii. 

I saw the Hawaii casting special and the first 20 mins of the first Hawaii episode on Youtube. The video quality on the episode was horrendous, but it was still watchable. I still hate Terrycloth Matt and Kaia with a fiery passion, Matt is the same as I remembered, but Kaia was SO much worse. I'd forgotten how she used to drop these unbelievably obnoxious statements into regular conversation with zero sense of irony, like about she blows everyone away with both her looks and her charisma. The bit about the charisma was uttered in her lock-jawed, droning monotone and it was just staggeringly un-self aware and arrogant.

Quote

Has there been any other season with such a divide between the guys/females in the house? I think the main problem with this season is that the group just didn't gell well together and they didn't have one person who got along with everyone. The closest is probably Lori, but she wasn't that close to Nicole from what I remember from her recaps she didn't have a one-one conversation with Nicole until they drove back from Boston. I wonder how different this season would have been if they had switched Kevin/Blair since Blair seems to be one of those people who can get along with anyone. 

Yeah, I could totally see Blair making a difference in the house dynamics. I don't think Nicole would have necessarily liked him, but I don't think she would have had as visceral a response to him as she had to Kevin, in all his lofty, arrogant, privileged attitude. I don't know if it's because Blair was a former fat kid or what, but he had a much more down-to-earth quality than Kevin. And Kevin really seemed to amp up the boys vs girls drama by constantly complaining about the women and declaring the men to be superior. Without him stoking the fires and keeping the gender divide going, Malik and Mike might have tried harder to get along.

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I don't hate Kevin as much as a lot of people do here ( I think he can be pretty insightful).  But I'm perplexed by his storyline (or lack thereof).  Its super weird because in the casting call, he was probably one of the most visible castmembers (talking about his cancer and his romance with Lori).  He was probably the top pick to be on the cast (along with Coral).  And then he just completely disappears in the series.  I get that there are people who are boring or more introverted etc.  But it seemed like the editors didn't seem to try.  Like we don't even know who his family is, or backstory is.  Like every other castmember either had a family member visit/phone call (Malik, Mike, Rachel), or would be referenced (Nicole, Coral.).  We get nothing from Kevin which is super weird.

I get the feeling that Kevin decided he wanted to control his portrayal so he didn't give them much to work with. The whole thing with Lori seemed like him wanting to make sure he looked like the stud with the girl chasing after him, so he made sure all of his talking heads were clear that it was all one-sided. He just came across as judgmental and a bit sanctimonious. Like, I get that he experienced something that made him reconsider life and priorities, but not everyone else had had that experience so if they still get upset about petty things, so be it. They were all in their early 20s, that's life at that age.

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The irony to about the last episode about how close they were as a group was the fact that they spent the last week with Jisela, Blair and a bunch of people from the casting special.  Lol they really tried to make that casting special happen.  That whole episode was so weird.  It took a series in a direction I was not expecting (especially with the Malik/Jisela) situation.  Jisela withstanding I do like Malik.  To have a more introverted african american male was a good thing.

They probably tried to circle back to the casting special because they'd gotten to the end of filming and realized that both shows were kind of a dud due to how they arranged their casting choices. Possibly it was a Hail Mary to try to salvage something of interest to close out the show.

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On 4/27/2021 at 8:18 PM, ljenkins782 said:

 

They probably tried to circle back to the casting special because they'd gotten to the end of filming and realized that both shows were kind of a dud due to how they arranged their casting choices. Possibly it was a Hail Mary to try to salvage something of interest to close out the show.

They should have put Jisela and Ellen on Real World, but no way would they not put one white girl on The Real World huge lost opportunity. 

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I am soooo happy I found this lost season on YouTube. Watching it 20 years later as a 40 year old compared to a 20 year old my opinions about everyone have changed. I also feel this was the last season of anything "real". I mean look at the bathroom situations, beginning in the Chicago season they designed them to be an open space without privacy. I always found it weird how they changed the dynamics of the houses through the years. I can't remember what season they took the doors off and only gave them curtains. Hmmmm.

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On 4/10/2021 at 11:35 AM, Hiyo said:

The beginning of the end for me and this franchise. Was watching more out of habit and the NYC porn than anything else. Don’t get me wrong, there were lots of good moments and episodes but it just didn’t grab me the way previous seasons did, especially after the high that was New Orleans. It was just...ok.

At least I stayed watching the whole season. Next year’s Chicago I would only watch on and off, and then once we got to Las Vegas I checked out by the 4th or 5th episode of that series.

I think they could have done a better job with casting on this one. Ellen v Coral for one. I also think they should have stopped filming the show after season 10. It just got too trashy. 

On 4/29/2021 at 11:44 PM, choclatechip45 said:

but no way would they not put one white girl on The Real World

What makes you say that? They didn't cast any white girls on RR The Quest until Katie came in after Jisella was voted off.

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18 minutes ago, Teriyaki Terror said:

I think they could have done a better job with casting on this one. Ellen v Coral for one. I also think they should have stopped filming the show after season 10. It just got too trashy. 

What makes you say that? They didn't cast any white girls on RR The Quest until Katie came in after Jisella was voted off.

Because Real World was the more popular show.  I am pretty sure every season had at least one White Girl. The diversity on RR The Quest is  surprising to say the least. 

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This is the one season of the first 11 that I'd never want to see an episode of again. I thought it was hurt from the get-go by the gimmicky casting special, so that in the first episode of the actual season, we were seeing people with prior impressions of each other, rather than true introductions. But the bigger problem was, as someone said above, that the cast didn't jell, even though some of them got along well enough. It was just tedious. When I was watching it in real time, it seemed to grind on endlessly. Even though there was more screaming and conflict, I found it more boring than London had been. 

Rachel was the most forgettable of all the RW "sheltered young things having new experiences" in the seasons I saw (the two Julies, Jon, Cory, Kat, Elka, et al.). 

I do remember being surprised when I leafed through the book (not one I'd have wanted to buy) and some of their comments about each other were nicer than I was expecting. I remember, for instance, Nicole talking about what a well-mannered gentleman Kevin was. She wasn't being sarcastic, either.

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I watched The Valentine's Day episode last night and the problem is that Mike and Coral are both type A while the rest of the cast minus Nicole don't have big personalities. Also it is really amazing how much they stretched the Kevin/Lori crush. You can clearly tell the conversation between Lori and Mike is from the previous episode. 

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7 hours ago, choclatechip45 said:

I watched The Valentine's Day episode last night and the problem is that Mike and Coral are both type A while the rest of the cast minus Nicole don't have big personalities. Also it is really amazing how much they stretched the Kevin/Lori crush. You can clearly tell the conversation between Lori and Mike is from the previous episode. 

Coral, Nicole, Mike, Ellen, Malik, Rachel, and Segun (sp? from the casting special) I think would have made for interesting TV. Kevin and Lori, although I love them didn't have a good storyline. 

8 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

This is the one season of the first 11 that I'd never want to see an episode of again. I thought it was hurt from the get-go by the gimmicky casting special, so that in the first episode of the actual season, we were seeing people with prior impressions of each other, rather than true introductions. But the bigger problem was, as someone said above, that the cast didn't jell, even though some of them got along well enough. It was just tedious. When I was watching it in real time, it seemed to grind on endlessly. Even though there was more screaming and conflict, I found it more boring than London had been. 

Rachel was the most forgettable of all the RW "sheltered young things having new experiences" in the seasons I saw (the two Julies, Jon, Cory, Kat, Elka, et al.). 

I do remember being surprised when I leafed through the book (not one I'd have wanted to buy) and some of their comments about each other were nicer than I was expecting. I remember, for instance, Nicole talking about what a well-mannered gentleman Kevin was. She wasn't being sarcastic, either.

I agree, the only surprise was who would be on what show.

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On 4/21/2021 at 11:16 AM, seltzer3 said:

I don't hate Kevin as much as a lot of people do here ( I think he can be pretty insightful).  But I'm perplexed by his storyline (or lack thereof).  Its super weird because in the casting call, he was probably one of the most visible castmembers (talking about his cancer and his romance with Lori).  He was probably the top pick to be on the cast (along with Coral).  And then he just completely disappears in the series.  I get that there are people who are boring or more introverted etc.  But it seemed like the editors didn't seem to try.  Like we don't even know who his family is, or backstory is.  Like every other castmember either had a family member visit/phone call (Malik, Mike, Rachel), or would be referenced (Nicole, Coral.).  We get nothing from Kevin which is super weird.

I always figured B/M were upset with him and that's why he disappeared. In the casting special, he said point blank in an interview that if he and Lori were put in the same house, they'd get involved. And instead he tells Lori their first night that he doesn't want to be with her, and we learn later in the season that he had a girl back home all along that he was really interested in. He outright lied to get on the show - I don't think he would have been cast without the Lori factor - and B/M lost what they'd thought was a sure thing for a house hookup, back when that was still rare for the franchise. I could see them thinking fine, since he wanted to be on the show so badly, they could get back at him by not giving him airtime. The one teensy story I remember him getting was the one about him romancing the girl he'd been interested in all along - makes sense they would air that, to show he'd lied in the casting special.

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