S03.E10: Tears of the Wrath-Bearing Tree

[ElectricBoogaloo]

SEASON FINALE!

Quote

Teetering on the edge of war and peace, the gods gather to mourn a loss; Bilquis' divine journey brings her to an unexpected revelation; Shadow finally embraces destiny.

Promo:

Original air date: 3/21/21

[LaMatadita]

When this episode began with Bilquis's vision that ended with Laura being transposed over an image of Shadow and being almost absorbed into him, clearly intended to foreshadow her being his "soulmate," I didn't even want to keep watching because it looked like EXACTLY what I've been afraid they were going to do, and I've been afraid they were going to do it only because it's such an obvious tidy full circle ending, not because they've actually done anything to build toward it or earn it. And then I thought, why would they show us so blatantly how it's all going to turn out in the first 3.5 minutes of the episode? It's not like fans are so stupid that they're not going to understand the symbolism, so if that's really where we're going, that's more than a little anticlimactic.

They didn't actually resolve that in this episode at all and left us hanging with Bilquis coming to Laura's door, so I'm really struggling with whether or not I want to see S4 or not. If S4 means watching Laura reject being jerked around by divine forces and told that she's Shadow's soulmate (I didn't see anyone trying to figure out who HER soulmate is...), then I'm all for it. If S4 reduces Laura’s entire character arc to becoming worthy/ready for Shadow and renders her some sort of eternal protector of his eternally clueless ass, and has poor Bilquis playing matchmaker in this BS, I have zero interest in watching it. I kind of wish they'd just ripped the band-aid off, because I'm genuinely invested in Laura's arc, and I don't know if I should dare to hope that they'll actually do right by her rather than fall into the trap of insidious sexism. If the show doesn't get a S4, I can at least fanwank that Laura responded to that information with, "Excuse me, I'm whose soulmate? That is not your fucking decision."

Overall, the episode was a little predictable here and there (a lot of fans already figured out the twist about Tech Boy), but not actually unenjoyable despite the burning hatred I felt at the image of Laura being absorbed into Shadow Moon like some kind of subtle sacrifice. I'm just really unsure whether I should stop here and go with my imagination from here on out, or let the show run its course. (Assuming there is a choice and STARZ actually renews the show.)

Edited March 21, 2021 by LaMatadita

[T Summer]

WTF was that?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

My main takeaway from this episode (and this show in general) is that the gods are all a bunch of manipulative liars.

Poor Shadow - he thought he had finally found a purpose and it was just his selfish asshole of a father using him. He should have listened to both Laura and Cordelia and gotten the hell out of there.

I knew that Mr. World would not keep up his end of the bargain but I was a little surprised by how blatant he was about it. I really thought it would be more along the lines of casually smiting her with the snap of his fingers after she killed Wednesday for him.

[LoveLeigh]

My main takeaway is that the role of "Laura" was miscast. I don't like Emily Browning and I think she always looked too small and her facial expressions made her face look like putty. 

However, I think this episode is as good as any other. Overall, for the genre, this is an excellently developed series. 

[showme]

So what did Shadow Moon expect to happen by agreeing to be hung on the tree? in other words, why did he do that? I still don't get it.

Edited March 21, 2021 by showme

[T Summer]

3 minutes ago, showme said:

So what did Shadow Moon expect to happen by agreeing to be hung on the tree? in other words, why did he do that? I still don't get it.

Shadow was lynched and hung from a tree and he was detained in a police station where some tree with tentacle like branches invaded the station and worked it's way into his body where it left a squirming  poisonous thing that Wednesday had to remove to save his life.Yet, he has no fear of trees? and  he let the 3  creepy talking at the same time "Norns" lead him  to a tree to hang in  for 9 days and nights?? SMH. slowass.

and  dude, wtf is a "vigual"?

 

[hnygrl]

Soooo...there’s definitely going to be a season 4.

otherwise I may do prison time.

wooo Chile....they stopped right at the good part.

Annoyed me no end Shadow’s hubris...my daddy a god and now I am too...all bow to the NEW all father. Boy if you don’t sit down somewhere...

Please don’t tell me Shadow’s  soulmate/other half is freaking LAURA.  I veto that  

 

 

[juno]

I enjoyed this season as it was different and not just an endless road trip as I was worried about in the begining. They seem to be setting up a a season 4 where Shadow, Laura and Bilquis work to get Shadow his full power and then go after all the gods. I thought of John Wick when I saw this.

[WatchrTina]

Are you fucking kidding me?  They're leaving us on that cliff-hanger (or tree-hanger)?

Damn . . . this show.  

I love the book.  I love the show.  But . . . damn.

 

In related news . . . I'm really glad Tech Boy got his mojo back.

Edited March 22, 2021 by WatchrTina

[WatchrTina]

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

My main takeaway from this episode (and this show in general) is that the gods are all a bunch of manipulative liars.

The Greek gods?  Check.  The Roman gods?  Check.  The Norse gods?  Oh yeah.

But the "new" gods?  Are they any better?

And on a completely shallow note . . . I appreciate whatever god demanded that Shadow go onto that tree a la natural. And I appreciate Ricky Whittle for working out.

Edited March 22, 2021 by WatchrTina

[hnygrl]

Ricky Whittle is nice to look at. Seriously. Yum. And when whey were ‘anointing’ him with oil? Swoon. He was wearing a breechcloth though...not ‘nakey-nakey’ ...I checked...😊
 

What the new gods don’t comprehend is that technical boy has evolved. And all Mr. World’s bossiness is gonna do is piss him off and wreck the shard app.  T. B. Is almost there too. How times did he ask, "who are you?" to world? And imprisoning him? Are you serious? 
 

Rumor has it they’re shooting S04 as we speak. Well....type...please be true!

[hnygrl]

6 hours ago, T Summer said:

and  dude, wtf is a "vigual"?

Another fancy way of saying ‘Vigil"

[WatchrTina]

On 3/21/2021 at 4:06 PM, showme said:

So what did Shadow Moon expect to happen by agreeing to be hung on the tree? in other words, why did he do that? I still don't get it.

Okay this is just MY speculation but I assume that Shadow is on a voyage of discovery -- he's trying to understand who and what he is.  He grew up without a father and he's just recently learned that Odin, a freaking GOD, is his father. (Or rather, WAS his father.)  As a result, he's come to understand that he, too, is something "other."  He's more than a man (he can make it snow by just thinking about it) but less than a god (his mother was mortal.)  So when he is told that he needs to make a sacrifice of HIMSELF in order to to honor his late father, he agrees to do it because he wants to understand what he is.  Or maybe he agrees to do it because recently bereaved people cling to rituals as means of working through -- or just surviving -- the grief.  Maybe Shadow's motivation will become clearer when I watch again.  But the bottom line is that I think Shadow feels himself bound by duty.  There is an air of inevitability in his having reached this point and that is why he consents.  

Shadow's decision to submit to this ordeal echos both Jesus's decision in the garden of Gethsemane and also the ordeal that Odin suffered through earlier in HIS existence.  The quote below is from a Norse mythology web page:

Quote

Why did Odin hang upside down in a tree?

The three wise women [the Norns] instructed Odin that to learn the knowledge he sought, he must pluck out one eye, hang himself upside down from the world tree, and allow himself to be pierced by a spear. ... His ordeal taught Odin the use of runes and magic and endowed him with the talent of prophecy.

I don't think Shadow knows exactly what will happen as a result of his consenting to go through the ordeal, but he feels duty-bound to do it.

Edited March 24, 2021 by WatchrTina

[T Summer]

I'm actually pretty annoyed with this finale. Haven't been able to find anything about a fourth season being confirmed, and even if they something we the viewers don't, it was pretty unsatisfying to leave so many things unresolved. Last week they killed off Wednesday and left us wondering is he really dead? and this week they killed Shadow and left us wondering  is he really dead? 

How creative.

 

so we're  just left to wonder about  this "other" ol' lady midwife was  babbling about?

 all that Demeter at the "retreat"  BS which took up half the season was for what, exactly?

and Zorya Pulchnaaya or whatever her name was telling Shadow about his two paths and one day  the stars  will guide him ... means?

what's the significance of  the Buffalo with eyes of fire, and why is it white sometimes?

why do Peacocks talk to Bilquis?

is  Doyle still stuck in Sweeney's hoard? or just laying low there?

why is the music that was Laura's ear worm in purgatory playing around Mr. World's creepy ass?

is Shweiger's Requiem of Baldr  (the "song" no one can find on the internet) the vehicle The New Gods are going to use to get  Shard into everyone's brains? are they going to play  and broadcast those few notes everywhere  until people go insane?

what  does happen to  Laura Moon?

what's with the teeth (on the plane)?

They can't tie up any of these elements,  yet they  give us plenty of scenes  with  that disgusting grimy Chernobog?

 

If the show creators think I'm coming back in a couple of YEARS to watch more of craggy old Wednesday / Odin being the same  dickish deceitful  smug "god"    hanging with his filthy  greasy pal  and his stupid giant hammer...  they have another thing coming!

 

 

[tennisgurl]

After season two I thought that they were pretty much abandoning the books plot to focus on their own things, so I am pleasantly surprised that this season has gone back to the book plot. We got to the hotel at the center of America (the most godless place in the country) we get Shadow doing the Norse funeral, and of course we get some hints about what is actually going on here and who is really involved...

Shadow really got up on his godly high horse this week, but I cant really blame him. He finally finds a father, who's also an actual god, and after spending his whole life trying to understand his purpose he has all of these gods fighting over him and giving him these trippy visions about some kind of higher purpose, no wonder he gets caught up in all of the godly hijinks. Not that him voluntarily nailing himself to a big tree was a smart choice, and he drank the Odin Kool-Aid pretty quickly here, but I get it. I love how his airplane to the afterlife (nice call back to his first meeting with Wednesday) basically consisted of everyone calling him an idiot for ever listening to his dad, who has never even hidden how shady he is. Even the other old gods, who he shares an amount of comradery with, all usually great him with a "oh hi Wednesday, fuck off" when he stops by, none of this is news. 

The shard being basically the spark of creation, the first rock that made fire, is a cool idea and I like that they basically seem to be saying that the Technology Boy is kind of both an old and new god, a god that keeps getting reborn every few decades as technology advances. And of course Mr. World has a whole different game going on, not very surprising. 

Now I want to see more of Czernobog and Mr. Ibis dealing with old god stuff. I also really hope that they aren't trying to hook Shadow up with Laura again, that ship has already so sailed. 

We better get a season four or I am going to have to demand some Czernobog style vengeance. I am thinking one more season would get us through the book and that would be a good way to end the show, unless they want to adapt some of the other short stories in the series or just do their own thing. This season still did not quite capture the magic of season one, but it was WAY better and more complete than season two. Getting back to the books plot was I think a good idea to get the plot moving again.

[taanja]

On 3/21/2021 at 2:06 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

My main takeaway from this episode (and this show in general) is that the gods are all a bunch of manipulative liars.

Poor Shadow - he thought he had finally found a purpose and it was just his selfish asshole of a father using him. He should have listened to both Laura and Cordelia and gotten the hell out of there.

I knew that Mr. World would not keep up his end of the bargain but I was a little surprised by how blatant he was about it. I really thought it would be more along the lines of casually smiting her with the snap of his fingers after she killed Wednesday for him.

That is my takaway from every religion I have ever studied. 

I feel pretty sure that Shadow isn't dead dead. it will probs be Laura? or Demeter? or someone who will save his ass beginning of next season. I am not worried about him.

Oh and I laughed and laughed at that plane scene with Wednesday and Shadow. Cashews! Yeah!

I guess I'm the only one who likes Wednesday. I like that he is pretty much a dick.

[isalicat]

That was most enjoyable! As an avid fan of the book, I was very glad to see the show runners get back to the plot of the novel and this episode did a very good job with all the characters, in my opinion. I would like to give especial props to the casting people - from the principals down to supporting, this show has not failed to cast an actor perfectly suited, both physically and in terms of talent, to the part. I stuck it out through last season (which I thought was pretty poor overall) and re-signed up with Starz just to keep watching Ian McShane as Odin. Emily Browning and Ricky Whittle have really "grown" on me - never seen either previously but Emily is the best at having no further f**ks to give I've seen in a long time and Ricky is both gorgeous and a very gifted actor. I thought they were going to wrap up the book this season but clearly we need a Season 4. Is this financially feasible for Starz?

[LaMatadita]

6 hours ago, taanja said:

I guess I'm the only one who likes Wednesday. I like that he is pretty much a dick.

I think that's it exactly. He's an excellent villain that you love to hate. One of the things I did like about the past couple of episodes is that they showed us that Cordelia is essentially the favorite child (whether biologically his or not) and Shadow is the sacrificial sheep that he didn't let himself get attached to.

Edited March 23, 2021 by LaMatadita

[WatchrTina]

On 3/22/2021 at 3:54 PM, tennisgurl said:

The shard being basically the spark of creation, the first rock that made fire, is a cool idea and I like that they basically seem to be saying that the Technology Boy is kind of both an old and new god, a god that keeps getting reborn every few decades as technology advances.

Ooooh.  I love this insight.  You inspired me to go back and watch the episode again more carefully.

 

THE GOOD

I loved the fact that it was Cordelia who told Shadow that it was Laura who killed Wednesday and that she referred to her as "That puta with a spear."  Cordelia don't play.

Likewise I enjoyed Laura's impatience with the whole situation, e.g. "Who the fuck are you?" and "I want my fucking tennis ball!" and her breaking out of the hotel room and hiding under Wednesday's body.  But it must have hurt to overhear Mr. World sell her out to Shadow.

Ricky was really good in the scene where Shadow looks upon the body of his dead father.

I have a greater appreciation for Czernobog after this episode because he really does keep the narrative moving, as in "Get to the fucking point!" and his explaining "Yeah he means you have to bash her head in until her brain dribbles from her eyes."

I loved the conversation between Shadow and Laura.  Her discomfort with him talking about his "destiny" is perfect.  I'm uncomfortable with how easily Shadow seems to have drunk the kool-aid on his having to sacrifice himself via a Norse death ritual.

That green-lit room that Laura goes back to was so creepy I just KNEW something spooky was going to happen and, sure enough, Laura has a vision of dead Shadow impaled by Odin's spear.

I'm glad Bilquis found Laura (though I don't understand how -- see below) because those two working together might be awesome, especially since they are both pretty pissed off about how the new gods have treated them.  To quote the missing-but-not-forgotten Mr. Nancy, "Anger gets shit done."

I loved the "Carry me home" song that played as they drove to site of the the world tree.

<shallow mode on> Can I get a "Hell yeah!" for the ritual bathing scene?  <shallow mode off>

I was delighted that Shadow hallucinated himself into first class with Wednesday (though I could have done without the maggots.)  I'm glad that we got a bit of Wednesday in the episode and -- even better -- that Shadow FINALLY realized that he'd been manipulated by Wednesday into sacrificing himself.

 

Czernobog:  "Is this the death of the old gods?"

Ibis: "Or something much worse?"

Well THAT's a hell of a way to end the season.

 

THE BAD

After all this time I still don't understand the significance of the song (the one Laura has stuck in her head).  Not sure if I'm supposed to or not.

When Ibis showed up at the hotel with Shadow that completely confused me.  When did those two hook up again?  Are we supposed to assume that Ibis was called to attend to Wednesday's body?  But then why do we see him arriving with Shadow?  We saw Shadow "feel" Wednesday's death at the end of the prior episode.  Are we supposed to assume he dropped by Cairo and picked up Ibis on his way to the deity dead zone in the center of the country so that Ibis could attend to Wednesday's body?  if so, that asking a LOT of the viewer.

Why would any of the old gods know what Mr. World was talking about when he spoke of "The Shard?"

Why does Cordelia say "Please tell me there's not a gimp involved."  Where did THAT line come from?

I'm REALLY confused as to what is going on with Tech Boy.  So Artifact 1 is . . . a flint -- presumably the first flint that was ever used by pre-historic man to make a fire.  And when Tech Boy touches it he sees images of other "great-leap-forward" innovations like the printing press and electricity and the atom bomb.  Okaaaaay.  I think we're supposed to understand that Tech Boy is considered dangerous by the new gods because . . . okay I've got nothing.  Why IS he locked up by them?  (And why can't he remember his past?)

 

THE UGLY

Crucifixion imagery, complete with Shadow being pierced in the side.  Ugh.

 

UNANSWERED QUESTIONS

Who the fuck was the guy in the red robe in Eugenia's kitchen?  I think we're supposed to recognize him as the guy whose painted image came to life during the rave a few episodes ago but if that's the case, that's asking a LOT of the viewer.

I'm not clear what the point was of Bilquis's prolonged vision sequence.  I guess we're supposed to understand that all the blurry imagery was comprehendible to Bilquis and that that's what lead her to Laketown, and somehow visiting Laketown led her to Laura at the hotel but . . . how?  I know she owns a peacock feather fan. Does she have some kind of special relationship with peacocks?  Did the Laketown peacock tell her where to go?

I don't understand why Shadow had a vision of himself as a slave in his foggy mirror.

 

OTHER

Now I want to learn to poach eggs like Eugenia.

Did you notice that they shifted to letter-box format again when Shadow had his vision of life as a slave?  I recall them using that trick in the past when Ibis is telling one of his tales.  Interesting that they used it again.

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by WatchrTina

[Megras]

3 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

THE UGLY

Crucifixion imagery, complete with Shadow being pierced in the side.  Ugh.

While that is in the scene, I took it more to be a replication of the trials Odin put himself through for wisdom. Hanging from the tree for 9 days and nights and stabbing himself with a spear to gain the knowledge of runes. There seems to be some debate as to whether the Christ story or the Odin story came first and which influenced the other.

[T Summer]

4 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

I'm glad Bilquis found Laura (though I don't understand how -- see below) because those two working together might be awesome, especially since they are both pretty pissed off about how the new gods have treated them

A few  thoughts: In s2 e8? at the funeral home in Cairo following Sweeney's death Laura and Bilquis had a convo where Bilquis said of Wednesday "He's weakened but wiley,  better bring power when you go against that one. Laura replied "you seem pretty powerful, do you want to help me?" the convo concluded with Bilquis saying "I know how to find you."

 

Then at one point  earlier in s2 (I think), Bilquis told Shadow my destiny is very much tied to yours... something like that. So maybe when it appeared she was outside Shadow's apartment in Lakeside, she got vibes about where Shadow had gone

5 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Does she have some kind of special relationship with peacocks?

(or the peacock told her...lol), then headed there and  heard or sensed that Laura was also there?

 

Or she could have heard the news that Wednesday was dead as it appears Ibis did,  and figured Shadow would be there  so she went to support him and pay respects to Wednesday  and then heard it was Laura  who killed Wednesday and  she was  there awaiting her fate?

 

5 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

When Ibis showed up at the hotel with Shadow that completely confused me.  When did those two hook up again?  Are we supposed to assume that Ibis was called to attend to Wednesday's body?

^ This is puzzling enough, but why on earth would Mr. World be touching Wednesday's shroud talking about "we commit this body..." and filling in the blanks about traditional burials or vigils for Norse Gods???? I thought he only met with the old Gods to discuss a possible peace agreement and whether it's to everyone's advantage to avoid going to war and the  the terms and all that.? Why would he pass comment one about  Norse burial tradition or vigils ???

6 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

I loved the "Carry me home" song that played as they drove to site of the the world tree.

Agreed. There's so much good music in the series. That song is by The Sweeplings.

[WatchrTina]

14 hours ago, T Summer said:

why on earth would Mr. World be touching Wednesday's shroud talking about "we commit this body..." and filling in the blanks about traditional burials or vigils for Norse Gods???? I thought he only met with the old Gods to discuss a possible peace agreement and whether it's to everyone's advantage to avoid going to war and the  the terms and all that.? Why would he pass comment one about  Norse burial tradition or vigils ???

Mr. World's idea of a "peace agreement" is for the old gods to retreat in the shadows, living off scraps of vestigial worship, while the new gods take over the world.  It's not a negotiation we see in this episode.  He's dictating the terms.  So I presume he is offering the old gods the opportunity to bury their dead -- complete with the son of the deceased performing his ritual -- as a mark of faux graciousness before subjugating them completely. (It's probably an old, well-established tactic of war.  In the Harry Potter books Voldemort paused the battle at Hogwarts, supposedly to allow the dead to be gathered, but mostly to allow the almost-vanquished defenders to come to accept that their situation was hopeless and to stop fighting.  I'm not a history-of-war buff but I'll bet that tactic is lifted from the past.)

 

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by WatchrTina

[T Summer]

Oh, I get what Mr. World's stance was; fade into oblivion or be killed. lol. Some terms!

I just think his touching the shroud and saying anything about   his opponent's traditions regarding the handling of their dead and ceremonies that follow seems  odd with Mr. Ibis  and the Norns there.  [ but then, I think I may be the only person to have never watched a Harry Potter movie or read a book]

[LaMatadita]

20 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

After all this time I still don't understand the significance of the song (the one Laura has stuck in her head).  Not sure if I'm supposed to or not.

Since Mr. World hums or whistles the same song in the finale, I think there are pieces in place for a plausible theory, but it involves figuring out something about Mr. World and then making a connection to mythology, so I don't know how much to say here.

20 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

I'm not clear what the point was of Bilquis's prolonged vision sequence.  I guess we're supposed to understand that all the blurry imagery was comprehendible to Bilquis

For me, my takeaways were that: 1) Cordelia is important. She was one of the first things we saw, and she was shown facing Shadow. 2) Laura is probably the other/soulmate because the last image in the vision was her superimposed over Shadow and almost dissolving into him. (Not a fan of this development, but it seems like that's what we were supposed to get out of it.) 

14 hours ago, T Summer said:

why on earth would Mr. World be touching Wednesday's shroud talking about "we commit this body..." and filling in the blanks about traditional burials or vigils for Norse Gods????

I think having him say that was purposeful and intended to make viewers question. Why would he even know anything about their traditions? Do the New Gods make a habit of knowing the various traditions of the Old Gods?

Edited March 26, 2021 by LaMatadita

[T Summer]

If the conclusions to be drawn are that the New Gods know all about the Old Gods and the Old Gods know all about the New Gods because there really is no division and they're each backing all the plays so there can be no losers no matter how things go, why be so bloody obvious about it? Just keep quiet Mr. World and don't tip your hand. Mr Ibis has got this!

[Notwisconsin]

On 3/21/2021 at 3:06 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

My main takeaway from this episode (and this show in general) is that the gods are all a bunch of manipulative liars.

That's paganism for ya!!!! If you read mythology, you will notice that.

[The Kings Foot]

On 3/25/2021 at 2:58 AM, WatchrTina said:

 

I'm REALLY confused as to what is going on with Tech Boy.  So Artifact 1 is . . . a flint -- presumably the first flint that was ever used by pre-historic man to make a fire.  And when Tech Boy touches it he sees images of other "great-leap-forward" innovations like the printing press and electricity and the atom bomb.  Okaaaaay.  I think we're supposed to understand that Tech Boy is considered dangerous by the new gods because . . . okay I've got nothing.  Why IS he locked up by them?  (And why can't he remember his past?)

 

Remember how Biquis was actually an even older God that got remade into a love deity as her followers changed ?  Same deal with Tech Boy. He's actually an Old God who get reborn every generation as technology advances.  Remember they showed us Tech Boy existing with the Clockwork letter writer in 1893   even though they also showed us him getting "created" in the  2000's at the computer programmer's father's funeral. 

Tech boy is a God of Invention.  Meaning in one of his early Old God forms  forms he wouldve been the Greek God Prometheus who invented  fire and metalworking and alchemy.   The danger for Mr World is Tech Boy realizes he doesnt need to take part in this fight between Old and New Gods because he will always exist

On 3/21/2021 at 5:06 PM, showme said:

So what did Shadow Moon expect to happen by agreeing to be hung on the tree? in other words, why did he do that? I still don't get it.

He expected to become a God . And to take over Odin's role as leader of the old Gods.  

Edited March 26, 2021 by The Kings Foot

[Morrigan2575]

On 3/25/2021 at 11:38 PM, LaMatadita said:

2) Laura is probably the other/soulmate because the last image in the vision was her superimposed over Shadow and almost dissolving into him.

I haven't watched S3 so keep that in mind but, your comment reminded me of S1 when Laura first found Shadow. She saw him as a beacon of light and, she was pulled towards him. I think there was also a part about her heart beating when they kissed.

I wonder if it's not so much a romantic soulmate thing but, that Shadow put some of his soul into the coin which then became a part of Zombie Laura? 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Morrigan2575

[LaMatadita]

9 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

On 3/25/2021 at 8:38 PM, LaMatadita said:

2) Laura is probably the other/soulmate because the last image in the vision was her superimposed over Shadow and almost dissolving into him.

I haven't watched S3 so keep that in mind but, your comment reminded me of S1 when Laura first found Shadow. She saw him as a beacon of light and, she was pulled towards him. I think there was also a part about her heart beating when they kissed.

I wonder if it's not so much a romantic soulmate thing but, that Shadow put some of his soul into the coin which then became a part of Zombie Laura? 

I also remember one of the Zorya's telling Shadow that the golden coin ("the sun") was given to him for this protection, but he gave it away (to Laura) because he didn't know that. The writers made a point of showing us, over and over, that Laura was essentially self-delusional. She didn't love Shadow when she was alive, didn't miraculously love Shadow when she was dead, and it seemed likely that a lot of her impulse to protect him may have been coming from the coin itself (because it was intended to protect him). And when he kissed her and her heart beat once, it seemed like his latent god energy and residual love, and maybe those 2 things interacting with the coin. To me, none of those things screamed "soulmate." They were all things that the writing, directing, and acting strongly hinted were being misinterpreted by Laura, who was mistaking a bunch of divine fuckery and magical coincidences as signs that she really must love Shadow now and her destiny was to protect him. "If he made my heart beat, I must love him!" Now it feels like the writers may be trying to retcon these moments into meaning the exact opposite of what they were intended to mean at the time, and it's not working for me. 

And when you compare those events to what Sweeney did for her... Sweeney may have killed her in the first place, but nonetheless, there are a lot of comparisons to be made where Sweeney did things with intent out of honor and love, and Shadow did not. There's also the fact that the only mutually loving sexual experience Laura has ever had was with Sweeney in New Orleans, and the most emotionally vulnerable we've ever seen her on the show was when she said goodbye to Sweeney and spread his ashes. Given all of that, it seems a little ridiculous to me that Shadow is her soulmate. They've kept all of Laura's eggs in the Sweeney basket (to the point of even spending 8 episodes on her wrestling with her feelings after he died and giving Laura and Sweeney their own theme song written by the new showrunner) for most of the series, and now they're trying to dump them all into the Shadow basket at the last minute? It doesn't feel right, and I have to wonder if it's not supposed to.

I certainly hope that it's going to be a more platonic duality sort of soulmate, or even better, a misdirect because Laura is going to say, "I'll help him, but no thanks to soulmates." I feel like there are several signs in the show pointing to the possibility that things are not heading where we're supposed to think they're heading, the first of which is that it's just strange to reveal their hand now re: the endgame goal when there's still a season to go. A lot of things also just don't add up in terms of how they've been presented on the show thus far and how much time and effort has been spent on one thing vs the other, and it could just be unintentionally bad writing and retconning, but there's so much of it that I'm starting to believe it might be intentional misdirection.

Edited March 27, 2021 by LaMatadita

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Trickery is what I do best

Sacrifice by a son

The water of time

 

[Morrigan2575]

Nice to see Crispin Glover back. So Tech Boy is basically the god of Invention and Mr World is an unknown quantity?

Moved to Speculation thread. 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by Morrigan2575

[rollacoaster]

I would like to wash and oil Shadow Moon...for ritual purposes.  

*********************************************

When Shadow called out, "Father" and wept after Wednesday forsook him on the plane...that broke me a little. 

That's always it, isn't it? Always that yearning for the love and approval of the Father. 

Edited March 28, 2021 by rollacoaster
Additional thoughts as I watch

[WatchrTina]

On 3/27/2021 at 7:12 AM, Morrigan2575 said:

I wonder if it's not so much a romantic soulmate thing but, that Shadow put some of his soul into the coin which then became a part of Zombie Laura? 

My first reaction is that someone putting "some of his soul" in an intimate object sounds very Harry Potter and then my second reaction is "Well of COURSE" it sounds familiar.  All the major stories/myths have been repeated over and over again down through time, first in oral history and then in literature.  I'll bet stories of someone parking part of their soul in an intimate object exists in the oldest religions.  It probably informs the Christian practice of believing certain religious relics are imbued with supernatural power.  

I seem to recall from my Star Wars fandom participation that there is a book called "The Hero's Journey" that examines the classic/universal nature of heroic stories.  Apparently that book informed the writing of Star Wars.  I also recall freaking out a little bit in my freshman year of college  when my humanities professor declared that the "story" of Noah-and-the-flood in the bible is a reworking of the Mesopotamian myth of Utnapishtim.   And now to bring this post back on topic . . . I think the universality of human mythologies is what inspired Neil Gaiman to sit down and write this book.

Meanwhile -- back on the topic of THIS episode -- I'm not sure I agree with either hypotheses posted above that Shadow's promised "other half" is either Laura or Cordelia.  Neither of those outcomes really make sense to me.  I'm hoping we're in for a surprise as to who that "other half" is.  And can I just say we BETTER get a final season!  If the powers that be just leave Shadow impaled on a tree limb and sealed up inside the world tree I'm going to be SO PISSED.

Edited March 28, 2021 by WatchrTina

[T Summer]

2 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

If the powers that be just leave Shadow impaled on a tree limb and sealed up inside the world tree I'm going to be SO PISSED.

THIS! I can't believe they left it here with no certainty of another season.

 

As far as the coin being imbued with part of Shadow's soul, IDK about that being it was Mad Sweeney's lucky coin. If it carried  some of anyone's  soul energy wouldn't it be his? Especially as it still unlocks Sweeney's hoard even  after he's gone.

 

[Joimiaroxeu]

I'm confused, did Bilquist give birth to twins or not? Because if Laura is Shadow's twin, yikes, incest. Her being his soulmate wouldn't be much better IMO unless Shadow is supposed to be fcuked over by his own soulmate. (As well as by his own father.)

So lucky were the Norns, getting to massage Shadow's magnificent body as they prepared him for the mourning ritual. 😘

Again, not crazy about the heavy-handed crucifixion imagery. Shadow died for Odin's sins? Ehhh.

I'm not worried about Shadow's presumed death because if they're going to carry through with the symbolism he will be resurrected at some point. (That is if Ricky Whittle is successful in renegotiating his contract for a fourth season. 🙄)

[T Summer]

 This was a pretty crappy way to treat the audience who've been  dedicated to the show on the part of  whoever was responsible for the direction this past season took.  Being   as they knew ratings were down and season 4 wasn't approved, IDK how they could have possibly left so many loose ends and major plot lines unresolved? It's not like they didn't have the time, they had the time and wasted it! That  whole Demeter element which took up how many episodes?  didn't advance the story one bit. Same with Yohan and the band Blood Death. If they felt that battle with Tyr was so pivotal, they could have just had him  show up at Zoraya's  memorial. Even Shadow seeing Marguerite didn't really move the story ahead. He could have just as easily stumbled on the truth about the missing kids while pitching in searching for  Alison and trying to decide how best to help Derrick (wasn't that the underwear thief?). If not eliminated, there certainly was some fat that could have been trimmed from the many Shadow / Marguerite scenes. The ONLY thing that was revelatory about  the Shadow / Marguerite relationship was that hug scene with Laura and the dialogue that followed that  showed both Shadow and Laura had moved on. With quite possibly only 10 episodes to wrap up the story, they should have been much  more discerning as far as  what new elements they introduced, IMO.

[LaMatadita]

32 minutes ago, T Summer said:

This was a pretty crappy way to treat the audience who've been  dedicated to the show on the part of  whoever was responsible for the direction this past season took.  Being   as they knew ratings were down and season 4 wasn't approved, IDK how they could have possibly left so many loose ends and major plot lines unresolved?

Not only that, but they seemingly started new ones! I keep seeing books fans say that a movie or miniseries would force them to get to the point and wrap up the remainder of the book, but it's not about the book anymore. This is a TV adaptation with its own storylines, some of which they just set in motion this season and some of which don't necessarily follow the book to the letter. They have to tie up what happens to Shadow, what Wednesday's full plans were, the truth about Mr. World, and the true nature of Tech Boy and what his importance is to the story. It also seemed implied that Liam Doyle might make a reappearance and have some significance to the story other than being being a plot device. 

But the real kicker is Bilquis's vision, which seems to imply that Shadow and Laura are soulmates. If that's an intentional misdirect or it's not a romantic sort of pairing, then maybe they can tie it up, but selling those two finally falling in love to an audience who doesn't want it, in 8-10 episodes, was already a tall order. Selling that in 3-4 episodes or a 2-hour movie, along with everything else they have to tie up, is definitely not going to emotionally satisfy anyone. I mean, I don't think it would have anyway, even if they'd gotten a full 4th season, but with even less to work with...? I hope, for the showrunners' sake and my own sanity, that it was never truly in the cards.

A pairing shouldn't be such a big deal, but they've put so much emphasis on Shadow being the "King of America" throughout the series--there were at least 3 references to Shadow becoming "King of America" in the first season, and then in this season, I believe the midwife told Bilquis that Shadow can't "rule alone" and needs the other side of the coin--so it seems like even beyond whatever conflict happens with Mr. World and Wednesday, that is the endgame.

[T Summer]

Yes! That's why the last line of my post stated they should have been much more discerning with bringing in all kinds of new story lines, especially the ones that never went anywhere. I'd read somewhere when I was looking for any info about whether s4 would happen that N.Gaiman and some producer or show runner whose name escapes me now, were planning x,y,+z  around a s4 happening. However at some point with cues around like declining ratings and production not exactly being a smooth running ship  and going into production of s3 with absolutely no assurances from Starz, they should have had a plan B that wouldn't leave the audience with nothing but unresolved questions, wondering what we'd invested so much time in. The absolute crap they wasted time on! @$&#% 

You can't even say they had to introduce Demeter to bring Tyr in because Odin and Tyr once competed for her affections, because again he could have just showed up at Zoraya's send off. So  whyyyy?  and what is with the freaking teeth [now that he's dead]?

It does seem Cordelia was possibly meant to be more than Odin's driver and girl Friday, but if you're not going to reveal how she's more than that, why even get started down that path? (I like her, though)

Earlier in the season when  M. Manson was being cut because of Evan  Rachael Wood's  accusations, no one seemed to think it would affect the show's course much... so again, why waste time on it?

They brought Sam BlackCrow back into Shadow's orbit and we saw the fiery orbs around them and we still have absolutely no idea what that's about?

Then there's the old lady midwife on about Shadow's "other" and  the song, the buffalo with fire eyes, the peacock, unsettled   Leprechaun business and the whole damned list! Most importantly, what are Laura and Bilquis teaming up on? That's all aside from the main mystery of  dead Odin coming back and Shadow (apparently) being killed and trouble between the Tech Gods!

So many totally bewildering choices of what to devote  time to in what could very well be the final season. They obviously didn't care if they left the audience frustrated, which is pretty shitty.

 

P.S. even I, who felt Laura Moon was motivated by love of her husband of 4 years when trying to keep him out of danger when he was working for Wednesday... am  not looking for a Shadow and Laura as soul mates resolution. I don't see how they could possibly ignore each of them being over the other and going their seperate ways, because that's what they've shown. I didn't even think of that when their images were shown morphed together.  Maybe in time she'd some how get him down from the tree, maybe  with  a God  or Goddess's help?  but it HAS to mean something else.

Edited March 31, 2021 by T Summer
for clarity

[LaMatadita]

9 hours ago, T Summer said:

It does seem Cordelia was possibly meant to be more than Odin's driver and girl Friday, but if you're not going to reveal how she's more than that, why even get started down that path? (I like her, though)

I knew I was forgetting something in my laundry list of unresolved plotlines! And yes, as much as fans have bitched about unnecessary additions, she's one I actually liked because I think the contrast between how Wednesday treated her and how he treated Shadow was actually interesting. It also made me think about the conversation between Sweeney and Shadow in 2x07 where Sweeney basically tells Shadow that Wednesday makes you feel useful and important at first, and then eventually the shine wears off and he throws you away. Would Cordelia end up going the same way as Sweeney and Shadow in the end?

I had also forgotten about Sam Black Crow and the lights that only seem to appear when she's around. Who knows if that was just a little red herring/easter egg or if it was supposed to go somewhere...

9 hours ago, T Summer said:

P.S. even I, who felt Laura Moon was motivated by love of her husband of 4 years when trying to keep him out of danger when he was working for Wednesday... am  not looking for a Shadow and Laura as soul mates resolution. I don't see how they could possibly ignore each of them being over the other and going their seperate ways, because that's what they've shown. I didn't even think of that when their images were shown morphed together.  Maybe in time she'd some how get him down from the tree, maybe  with  a God  or Goddess's help?  but it HAS to mean something else.

You were the only person I could think of that I've encountered online who might be into that pairing as a series resolution, and even you don't think they set it up well! And as it turns out, they really didn't. I did some reading yesterday, and I came across the interview Orlando Jones did with Entertainment Weekly after he was fired, and he said that when he was part of planning S3 after S2 wrapped, the writing team actually discussed whether or not to bring Mad Sweeney back and what to do with Laura Moon. The fact that they even considered bringing Sweeney back means it's HIGHLY unlikely that any of this stuff with Shadow and Laura was planned from the beginning or even over the course of S2, and certainly not as a romantic pairing, so us feeling like this soulmates stuff was not set up well at all is completely justified. Knowing that there was no intention of hooking Laura up with Shadow as of the end of S2 does give me a little more hope that they're not actually going to try to sell us on the two of them falling in love in 2-4 hours of wrap-up, but even if they do, considering how much nonsense they're clearly pulling out of their butts at the last minute, I can also easily ignore it and go with my own headcannon...