S09.E09: Isaac's Story

[Scarlett45]

3 minutes ago, Hellga said:

I've literally never heard of that.  Not a part of Russian culture.  Back in the old days, the eldest son would get married and bring his wife into his parents' house and she would be taking care of the in-laws but they would have their own family and everything, and younger kids were also expected to help if they lived around...  life was generally a more communal affair.  But everyone was expected to get married and have a family unless they joined a monastery or went into military (until they retired from it) or had something wrong with them.  Not everyone did (or wanted to) but it was never a forced option in order 'to take care of parents'... Even today in Russia people almost never go to nursing homes and such (unless they have no family), though nowadays it's more commonly a daughter who is the primary caregiver vs. a daughter in law... and now it's often the grandchildren - assuming no major things like medical care/ADLs needed, just regular help with groceries, cleaning, etc. because they get to a) move away from their parents and have more personal freedom and b) get to inherit the property after the grandparent passes (if both spouses are living, usually they take care of each other).  

I understand what you’re saying. But yes it’s not uncommon in many places for one sibling to remain unpartnered and childfree and care for the elderly parents. Generally if someone didn’t want to marry or have children then the elder care was their assigned role in the extended family- no shame in that!

Whatever Isaac wants to do, but I’m not sure if he’s made an informed choice. Especially since his eating has accelerated so much in such a short time. He’s only 23! And he was in the 300s in HS....what happened in 5-7yrs????

[Hellga]

11 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

no shame in that!

No shame... just completely outside of anything I have ever known.  I can't imagine one's own parents to be so cruel as to deny their own child a chance in life.  It's one thing if that's your personal choice, it's completely different if it's forced on you.   

 

PS  I am also biased, probably - I would personally much rather work than be a housewife or a caregiver or whatever.  I don't particularly enjoy household chores, I lack the warmth to be an emotional support a crutch to someone for a prolonged period of time, and I actually love my job.   My Mom was the same way, when I was a child, maternity leave was 18 months, and she said she barely lasted that time, she was chomping at the bits to go back to work even though she loved me and still does.  She also shipped me off to Grandma for the entire summer since I was 2 years old, and I honestly think my great relationship with my parents and my relatively mild teenage years are due to the fact we regularly got a chance to rest from each other's company. 🙂  It freaks me out how most American kids seem to be joined at the hip to their parents until they start driving themselves. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Hellga

[Scarlett45]

18 minutes ago, Hellga said:

No shame... just completely outside of anything I have ever known.  I can't imagine one's own parents to be so cruel as to deny their own child a chance in life.  It's one thing if that's your personal choice, it's completely different if it's forced on you.   

Yeah Issac's mom was so wrong IMO, she should've encouraged him to go to school! I think he would've made a great nurse given how kind and compassionate he was, if he was interested in something like that. 

 

But even in "ye olden days" it normally was a "choice" who stayed home and handled the elder care. Granted there were limited choices for women (economically and socially) but if you have a large number of children that live to adulthood (compared to 2-3 in 20th century/21st century mainstream North American culture- if there is such a thing), there is a good chance one of them wont want to marry or have children or both.

 

18 minutes ago, Hellga said:

PS  I am also biased, probably - I would personally much rather work than be a housewife or a caregiver or whatever.  I don't particularly enjoy household chores, I lack the warmth to be an emotional support a crutch to someone for a prolonged period of time, and I actually love my job.   My Mom was the same way, when I was a child, maternity leave was 18 months, and she said she barely lasted that time, she was chomping at the bits to go back to work even though she loved me and still does.  She also shipped me off to Grandma for the entire summer since I was 2 years old, and I honestly think my great relationship with my parents and my relatively mild teenage years are due to the fact we regularly got a chance to rest from each other's company. 🙂  It freaks me out how most American kids seem to be joined at the hip to their parents until they start driving themselves. 

Its okay. Caregiving isnt my jam however, I am very good at it, because I have had to do it since I was a child (I cared for my elderly grandfather, and my sister who is severely mentally disabled, and Ive cared for my Mom when she has been injured/ill- Mom is fine now). Yes we had professional help, but the help doesnt work 24/7/365 (they take time off as well) and caregiving occurs every day. Now I make enough money to outsource that help (but again, they dont work every day)- also why I think I know a great male caregiver when I see one in Issac!

 

But if his Mom was actually being a MOM to him, she would've encouraged him to stay in school (even if he attended a local school) develop himself, get his weight loss surgery- be his best self BEFORE he became anyone's caregiver if that is what he wanted. Additionally I am not letting his Dad off the hook here. But Dad barely spoke so I have no idea what he thought about anything. 

However, if you gave me the choice between being forced to marry a man and have children, or be the caregiver to the elderly parents/disabled sibling, I would take the latter EVERY time. Far much more personal and emotional freedom, and in "ye olden days" more social and economic autonomy for women as well. Being a parent's caregiver was a respectable way to remain unmarried and you could control your own money and social time.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I wonder why Isaac wasn't doing online community college?    Two years, and he would have an associates degree.    

I had hope for Isaac, even though he was losing fairly slowly.     Then came the statement when he was getting into the parents mini-van after the last appointment, saying that he was upset he had to keep losing weight, and didn't get scheduled for the surgery.      I suspect that he will never get to a healthy weight.  

Edited February 19, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[LeesburgLee]

11 hours ago, Hellga said:

I have always been more of a 'there are nearly 8 billion people in the world, if I care about what all of them think, I will never get anything done' gal myself.   

 Love the way you stated this! 

[KateHearts]

There has been speculation here about whether Isaac's mother really was as sick as he stated: I hadn't thought of that, but looking back, they didn't show her on camera when he would narrate that he "can't leave her like this." Usually there is some gratuitous scene of someone looking sickly in a bed or chair when that comes up.  Mom certainly enjoyed her camera time.  

What did come to mind for me, though, was the apparently good state of Mom's health not only considering that she had cancer (that had spread after surgery- and what was it he said about "they did the surgery but no one has told us if she's ok or not"?) but that she has absolutely NO deficits from what they describe as a devastating stroke in the past. If she truly couldn't walk, was debilitated for months, had to relearn to talk again- there would be some sort of residual speech impediment, limp, weakness, etc.  She didn't even use a cane- although Isaac did.  

I am getting really tired of these episodes that never result in surgery, and even moreso lately, not even a significant weight loss.  Hard to believe that the show is running out of potential participants. Maybe the shower scenes, eating scenes,  and the humiliation of being filmed from the floor so that we can all see the giant abdomens and splayed legs is just too much for them to agree to.  

[AZChristian]

I'm beginning to suspect that Mom's "illnesses" were a convenient excuse for Isaac to return home.  He didn't seem to want to put a lot of effort into anything except cooking and eating.  He chose not to lose weight so he could stay in the band, etc.  Mom was willing to listen to him say that her health was his reason for dropping out of college, but she wasn't willing to actually give up anything that she enjoyed doing in support of his contentions that she was ill.

I'm from a family of people who were professionals at coming up with excuses.  Instead of just admitting that they didn't want to do something, they would always offer excuses.  I guess they thought that people wouldn't blame them for their choices if they had a good excuse for their behavior instead.  Seems like a waste of time to me.  

[CrazyInAlabama]

I found the mother's medical issues to be exaggerated.     Especially a stroke that left her totally incapacitated, to having zero issues now.    

People I've known that had small strokes had on-going issues even years later.   

I suspect that with Covid, the filming is in Texas for quite a while, the production company got slapped pretty hard about filming to conclude the final few episodes that were actually the end of last season, that became the first episodes of this season.    I think Krystal's was the first newer episode, and Isaac was newer too.      

[libgirl2]

3 hours ago, KateHearts said:

What did come to mind for me, though, was the apparently good state of Mom's health not only considering that she had cancer (that had spread after surgery- and what was it he said about "they did the surgery but no one has told us if she's ok or not"?) but that she has absolutely NO deficits from what they describe as a devastating stroke in the past. If she truly couldn't walk, was debilitated for months, had to relearn to talk again- there would be some sort of residual speech impediment, limp, weakness, etc.  She didn't even use a cane- although Isaac did.  

 

My aunt had a stroke in her late 40s. She recovered fully at least from what I could see. She painted, played the violin, sewed, sang opera...... I don't know how severe it was but it did take awhile. She lived in another country so I was not able to see her when she had it. Then again, my grandmother had one and never regained use of her left arm and even had trouble walking. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by libgirl2

[Hellga]

11 hours ago, KateHearts said:

there would be some sort of residual speech impediment, limp, weakness, etc. 

Thankfully, that's not always true.  Stroke recovery really depends on lots and lots of factors, and generally full recovery is 12-14 months, any deficits that remain after a year rarely resolve (but things happen even years down the line) but there are great many things that can be done.  Human beings are built with great many safety checks in place, so if a particular muscle or brain pathway doesn't work, there are often (not always, but often) other ways to achieve the same result.  The fact that she was young definitely helped her recovery, quality of medical care and physical therapy and response to certain medications also make a difference.  Plus, residual deficits could be non-obvious to a casual observer - for example, losing ability to handwrite, or completely forgetting a second language or professional capability, or developing a different accent, or inability to do certain type of exercise...  So while it's possible mommy dearest exaggerated her symptoms to get more attention, I have absolutely seen people recover from near-vegetable state, and there is lots and lots of research being done on how to improve stroke care (tips: if you suspect a stroke, every minute counts, literally - get yourself or your loved ones to the hospital ASAP, and it's best if you go to a specialized stroke center - google the one nearest to you).  

[Granny58]

On 2/18/2021 at 12:52 PM, Bobby88 said:

I had to have soy milk until I was about five. Some kids do have really severe food allergies which they outgrow.

But something about this story with Isaac just doesn't feel right. The whole family dynamic doesn't feel right.

I had to give my son (now mid 20s) soy milk and with all the talk about it's estrogen effects I wonder if I did the right thing.  Did it affect you at all?  

[Granny58]

On 2/18/2021 at 5:30 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Yeah Issac's mom was so wrong IMO, she should've encouraged him to go to school! I think he would've made a great nurse given how kind and compassionate he was, if he was interested in something like that. 

totally agree.  Get himself under control and fit, and learn about real healthy living in order to be a positive help for others, and he would be great at it.  Isaac, you listening?  

On 2/18/2021 at 5:30 PM, Scarlett45 said:

But even in "ye olden days" it normally was a "choice" who stayed home and handled the elder care. Granted there were limited choices for women (economically and socially) but if you have a large number of children that live to adulthood (compared to 2-3 in 20th century/21st century mainstream North American culture- if there is such a thing), there is a good chance one of them wont want to marry or have children or both.

Hmmmm...Jana Duggar springs to mind.  

[Granny58]

9 hours ago, Hellga said:

(tips: if you suspect a stroke, every minute counts, literally - get yourself or your loved ones to the hospital ASAP, and it's best if you go to a specialized stroke center - google the one nearest to you).  

so true.  this past fall I had a  BP spike resulting in panic and I thought I was having a stroke.    went to hospital.  $3000 and a CAT scan to tell me it was anxiety, but still glad I went AND they took me seriously.  

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Folks, If you would lie to respond to a post in this thread but your response is off topic (i.e., is not about Isaac), you can use the Multiquote option (+").  Then go to the Small Talk thread and click on the Quote # post pop up.  The post you are quoting will then appear in the reply box and you can respond there.  Questions?  PM @PrincessPurrsALot. Thanks! 

[juliemama]

On 2/18/2021 at 2:48 AM, cynicat said:

Dr. Now fired off a line that made me literally LOL.  When Isaac asked Dr. Now if he had any suggestions to help, Dr. Now said "I suggest you don't eat so much".

No, it was even better -- "I suggest you don do dat."

[ams1001]

On 2/18/2021 at 9:35 AM, ams1001 said:

I want to make one of those cutesy shabby chic style wall signs and put it up in my kitchen. And my living room. And every other room in my house.

On 2/18/2021 at 10:29 AM, ams1001 said:

I just remembered I have a little picture frame magnet on my fridge that is empty. Now I know what's going into it.

I said I was gonna...

[Kenzie]

On 2/18/2021 at 8:32 AM, libgirl2 said:

Dad probably has good genes or they eat all of the food up by the time he gets to it. 

I suspect Dad is way too busy working overtime, double shifts and all national and religious holidays trying to support their massive food costs. 

[Concerned]

On 2/22/2021 at 4:03 PM, Kenzie said:

I suspect Dad is way too busy working overtime, double shifts and all national and religious holidays trying to support their massive food costs. 

I also think dad doesn’t speak English. He told aissac that breakfast “esta bien” and that English phrase he said to Dr Now thanking him sounded like he memorized it. Lots of people live in America for decades, have a physical job, and never learn English. But it probably alienates him from his English speaking family.

i also think this episode was filmed two years ago and put on the shelf until they had to cobble together a season out of reject episodes. It’s entirely before COVID, there are no leaves on the trees, and they pass a station selling gas for $2.05 a gallon. Gas hasn’t been that cheap since the winter of 2018/2019. There’s no reference to anything more contemporary.

[AZChristian]

15 minutes ago, Concerned said:

i also think this episode was filmed two years ago and put on the shelf until they had to cobble together a season out of reject episodes. It’s entirely before COVID, there are no leaves on the trees, and they pass a station selling gas for $2.05 a gallon. Gas hasn’t been that cheap since the winter of 2018/2019. There’s no reference to anything more contemporary.

Gas prices in Texas are much lower than the national average.  I suspect that $2.05 (at least before the storms) was still findable there.

[CrazyInAlabama]

 The give aways that this is a post Covid episode is that the waiting room is empty for visit at the 1 hour 15 minute mark, except for Isaac, dad Tony, and mom whatever-her-name is.     Plus, when Dr Now is 'standing' in the exam room, they greet him looking down at the monitor, when I think Dr. Now is actually on a monitor from another room (to limit everyone's exposure).   Isaac was sitting almost at the door to the exam room, and Dr. Now and Isaac would have to be in the same shot if they were actually in the same room.  

 (I think I'm watching this show too much to pick that up).    I think Isaac started filming pre-Covid, but then all of the follow ups were after Covid.   The next appointment, where Isaac only lost 10 lbs, Dr. Now was standing near the door, but still a safe distance, because you could see the top corner of the patient record he was holding, and I noticed Isaac, and the parents were further from the exam room door this time.     

In the next to the last appointment, Dr Now is actually in the same shot with Isaac, and the parents.    I really hope Isaac does go back to school.    

In the last appointment, they're still standing far back.     I'm really surprised that Isaac didn't have any medical issues that would cancel surgery.     Sadly, Isaac still doesn't look much smaller.  

Isaac's mother may have told the medical personnel that there would be no discussion of her condition, treatments or anything else with anyone else, even family.    

Edited February 28, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[Scratches19]

Sorry to be so far behind but watched it on dvr finally. 

My eating habit was Dave’s pasta sauce, meatballs, and spaghetti with garlic toast. During the show I popped open a few double stuff Oreos for dessert.

 I think I’m just about out of f”s to give about this show. It’s the same script sequence and the same cat and mouse game of hapoy talk about motivation and life change with the reality of excuses and enablers clawing back any progress.

The best thing I can say is therapy may help this kid tear away from momma and live his own life at some point before he dies. But living in that family dynamic is a non starter for any success for Isaac. 

The other thing of note was Dr. Now telling him (and us) that only 2% of patients succeed. So statistically we can expect one success in several seasons and the rest are variations on failure. 
 

The scripting is just a device to try to put a sense of false hope in front of us. An extension of the denial. I really want the show format to change. I want a season that’s centered on Dr. Now as the finale. 

Edited February 27, 2021 by Scratches19

[kassa]

On 2/27/2021 at 1:53 AM, Scratches19 said:

 

The other thing of note was Dr. Now telling him (and us) that only 2% of patients succeed. So statistically we can expect one success in several seasons and the rest are variations on failure. 

It would be interesting to know how the success stats actually break down. Does failure mean "gained it all back'?  Because if "failure" simply means "went from 650 lbs to goal weight of 210, then put back 60 lbs and maintained a weight of 270-300 for 10 years"... I'd still consider that a win for both lifespan and quality of life. 

[PrincessPurrsALot]

From columbiasurgery.org: "Weight loss surgery is considered successful when 50% of excess weight is lost and the loss sustained up to five years. For example, a patient who is 100 pounds overweight should lose at least 50 pounds; a patient who is 200 pounds overweight should lose at least 100 pounds. They should be able to maintain the weight loss successfully for the following five years."  This seems to be the standard stated on many sites.  So if a 600 lb. person who, by the charts, should be 160 loses loses 220 pounds and maintains the resultant weight of 380 lbs., they are a success.  However, we do not know what Dr. Now considers a failure; that is, whether he holds to this standard.  

[CrazyInAlabama]

I think Dr. Now is considering getting near or to a goal weight, like Diana did (if I misspelled that, she's the one that lost every pound she was supposed to, and had both knees replaced), instead of the other surgical centers that say you lose a certain amount, but are still morbidly obese.  

I think Isaac could actually lose a lot of weight without surgery, if he steadily exercises (not for weight loss, but to stay busy), and practices portions control.      Unlike Thederick with that huge Lymphedema, Isaac didn't seem to have huge growths.  

Edited March 2, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[Lunula]

I hope the best for Isaac, though I do think he is in that magical-thinking group who believe the surgery will forever remove their desire to binge. I am glad Dr Now told him the 5 year success rate was 2%. Those are shitty odds when you think about the fact that you are irreparably mutilating your body, undergoing an elective surgery that could very well kill you and placing a heavy financial burden on yourself and family.

I couldn’t believe they took a cab - twice - from the Dallas area to Houston. Holy shit. Especially the second time, my husband was yelling, “Why don’t they rent a car for the day!?” My thought was, maybe they don’t have credit to rent a car? There seems to be an entire cash culture among the Latino community in the city I live - people cash their checks and pay cash for everything. Maybe that’s why they couldn’t get an Uber/Lyft or rent a car - both options would’ve been cheaper.

After a couple minutes of outright hating Isaac’s mom for letting Isaac waste a full scholarship to “take care of her” - it dawned on me that he likely uses that as an excuse that he couldn’t handle college and wanted to leave. A guy that size would’ve had a hard time being mobile enough to get around on campus, getting to class, even fitting in chairs in class. I think his mom got sick and he willingly gave it up. I think his mom sucks because she wanted him to do it. For fuck’s sake, you have a husband and four other children that could’ve helped you and you expected your one kid who was trying to better his life to sit around waiting on you. I mean, she tells Dr Now she was “once a stay at home mom” and then got sick and couldn’t anymore. No, you still were, you just weren’t doing anything and expected Isaac to do everything instead. 

Kind of sad to see the family dynamic of, once again, his mom and siblings all being overweight and wanting him to change, but not being at all supportive about the food they want/expect in the house. I don’t personally believe in this “obesity epidemic” - being 20, or even 50 pounds over a “normal weight” prescription (which is mostly utter poppycock if you study the lack of scientific rigor behind it) isn’t a big deal  - HOWEVER - when you have a 23 year falling into a coma because of a treatable, preventable skin infection that developed due to his weight and lack of care for himself, that’s an issue. That’s a huge issue. 

I hope we see an update on him and he’s managed to get away from his family long enough to do something for himself. 

 

[El maestro]

Very sorry for Isaac. I hope the best for him, he is very nice comparing to other participant who where very nasty.