The Many Saints of Newark (2021)

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

A look at the formative years of New Jersey gangster, Tony Soprano.

Originally scheduled for September 2020 release, moved to March 2021, currently scheduled for September 2021.

[Kel Varnsen]

I am pretty excited for this. I have been rewatching the Sopranos and even in season 1 there is regular talk about how great Johnny Boy was, so I am interested to see if he lives up to that reputation.

I also just recently watched the S1 episode Down neck which is mostly flashbacks to 1967. It will be cool to see more of that Junior and his giant Lincoln.

Although I am curious how they are going to use Gandolfini's son as Tony. In 1967 Tony was a little kid around 8. Even if this movie takes place in the 60s and 70's Michael Gandolfini was 20 when they shot this. Unless they don't really show him until the end.

[BetterButter]

 

[DoctorAtomic]

Looks like they may be using some revisionist history on his age. 

[Avaleigh]

I am cautiously optimistic and excited about this. I think the trailer looks good. I was initially a little concerned about the casting even though I've liked the actors I'm familiar with in lots of other projects. e.g. I've loved Vera in everything I've seen her in but she did NOT seem like the right choice for Livia. I'm happy to stand corrected because I think she's going to be great. I was hesitant about Michael Gandolfini too but I'm thinking they made the right choice based on the trailer.

The Sopranos is probably my favorite show ever and even though I was in the group that hated the finale and thought Chase dropped the ball on a huge chunk of season 6, I still have faith that he knows how to tell a compelling story so I'm really looking forward to this. 

[Kel Varnsen]

Article from the LA Times with an interview with David Chace and a bunch of casting information. 

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/movies/story/2021-08-25/many-saints-of-newark-sopranos-prequel-cast-david-chase

Seems to pretty much confirm that they are retconning Tony's age. I like a lot of the casting, from what little I have seen of those actors. Although the guy they have for Silvio looks weird. And I was surprised that Ray Liotta isn't playing Old Man DiMeo.

[BetterButter]

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Junior looks awesome. I am currently in the middle of my rewatch and just watched Ralph get killed. I think I need to start watching 2 episodes a night if I want to be done by the time this comes out.

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

Looking forward to seeing the reviews from everyone. The  tv ads look interesting,  always enjoyed The Sopranos on HBO.

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

 

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

 

[DoctorAtomic]

I enjoyed the movie. This movie was messy, deliberately so, and I get that, but they threw a little too much into it. There was some fun beats for show fans, and all of the actors knocked it out. I'm hanging back on details.

[Maisiesmom]

Well, I was a bit let down. I was hoping to see more of Tony and how he came up in the ranks-I thought the riot stuff took up too much time. Uncle Dickie tried to be a good person sometimes but the movie was kind of all over the place-The acting wasn't bad, but it seemed they tried to cram too much into the alloted time. The soundtrack was good though, fit the time frame of the film. Considering the movie was about Uncle Dickie I was bummed there wasn't more Christopher in it-I guess I didn't realize Tony was so much older than Christopher. And Uncle Jun was an asshole. 

[Racj82]

1 hour ago, Maisiesmom said:

Well, I was a bit let down. I was hoping to see more of Tony and how he came up in the ranks-I thought the riot stuff took up too much time. Uncle Dickie tried to be a good person sometimes but the movie was kind of all over the place-The acting wasn't bad, but it seemed they tried to cram too much into the alloted time. The soundtrack was good though, fit the time frame of the film. Considering the movie was about Uncle Dickie I was bummed there wasn't more Christopher in it-I guess I didn't realize Tony was so much older than Christopher. And Uncle Jun was an asshole. 

This was never going to be "Tony Rises". David Chase being David Chase would tell he wouldn't want that anyway. But, I already knew that months ago. Even when it was announced, the story was always supposed to be centered on Dickie. Obviously, they still could of shown more of Tony but that was never his goal.

With Chase signing a five year deal with HBO, it's highly likely we get one or two more prequels. 

What's funny to me is how much young Tony is basically what AJ turned out to be and I don't think Tony ever saw that. Both were immature chuckleheads constantly looking for trouble for no reason. 

I also liked black characters being actual characters in this universe. Also, how using black people to explain away their fuck ups or issues has been going on for decades with this family.

[DoctorAtomic]

I knew this wasn't going to be Tony Rises either. I kind of wish they showed more of Dickie's influence on Tony. Tony was just kind of there. I like how he was quietly observant. I liked Dickie being cool with Harold too. But they didn't show Dickie really doing much mafia stuff. 

I wouldn't call Tony a 'chuckle head looking for trouble' though. They made a point of saying he's off the chart smart. He just wasn't into school. AJ was just dumb. Tony running numbers and knowing not to use any of the Beatles birthdays takes smarts. 

I do wish we would have seen more Jun. I really liked seeing him being so vindictive and mean. 

With the Moltisantis out of the way, Jun basically opened the door for the Sopranos to take over. Essentially holding on to power for over half a century. That should be a good story to tell next. 

I did like the Easter eggs though and had a good laugh at a lot of them especially the 'poor you!' 

I would have liked at least a hint of Tony's anxiety. 

I'd say Farmiga was the most interesting for me. 

For an HBO movie, this was fine for me on a Friday night. 

[txhorns79]

I felt like this was Dickie's movie with Tony, et.al. shoved in to make people want to come and see it.   

[Armchair Critic]

About a half hour into it and young Tony is a pain in the ass. I can see why the guys older than him in the crew would find it hard taking orders from him later.

Okay I'm back after I finished it. I didn't watch any previews or read any reviews because I didn't want to be spoiled.

Gandolfini's son I thought did well. What was weird about Vera Farmiga was that I thought she looked more like Carmela than Livia (or maybe that ties into Tony's mother issues that he married a woman who looked like his mother?).

I thought the funny parts were the in jokes for viewers of the series that came from the characters we know from the show. Things like Uncle Junior saying that Tony "never had the makings of a varsity athlete" and Silvio's hair piece. I did laugh when baby Christopher didn't like Tony.

Dickie Moltisanti was the typical Sopranos character who thought he was being a good guy but really wasn't. But then again I guess he did feel guilty because he knew his Uncle was right when he said the best thing would be to stay away from Tony.

I'll spoiler this for those who haven't watched yet

Spoiler

I knew as soon as his mistress slept with Harold she would be a goner. In fact a few minutes into the show I figured she wouldn't last long. I am glad Harold survived. And it was a nice surprise for me that Junior was the one who put the hit out on Dickie.

I thought Christopher was going to be the child of his mistress when he said his wife couldn't get pregnant? But his wife must have gotten pregnant.

 

Edited October 3, 2021 by Armchair Critic

[Racj82]

8 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I wouldn't call Tony a 'chuckle head looking for trouble' though. They made a point of saying he's off the chart smart. He just wasn't into school. AJ was just dumb. Tony running numbers and knowing not to use any of the Beatles birthdays takes smarts. 

Yes, he was like AJ. Tony was just never an idiot. I'm talking about the constantly getting into trouble for no real reason and constantly getting busted. It's the kind of stuff AJ did all the time in the early years. But, this movie shows that the people around you can also shape who you become. Tony had people around him that tried to smarten him up. Tony tried to keep AJ away from all the crime. That was admirable but they also coddled him too damn much. Tony was anything but coddled.

This was Dickie's movie for sure and that's the way Chase intended it. I don't mind it either. But, it's also kind of what some producers have to do now. The want to explore a universe you created but you can't sell it with also giving what the masses want. As long as it's a good product, I'm fine either way.

This could have been better. Less bloated, etc. David Chase very much wanted this to be a movie for theaters. It's clear after watching that it would make more sense as a limited series.

[pennben]

Oh no, if Dickie hadn’t killed his mistress & didn’t confess to his father’s twin in prison & just gave Tony the pills for his mother before being shot in the head…perhaps Tony could have Einstein or the President.  And men complain about soap operas…..

[chediavolo]

This was terrible. Even the feel of the time frame, the background, felt off. 
At one point it was mentioned how dapper Dickie dressed but at the end, years later he is wearing a distinct shirt we saw from 5 years ago.  
A lot of the terrible acting was just caricaturing of the originals. Livia  had issues but she was not a monster like she was in the Sopranos. So bad job on that backstory. As far as Dickie (best acting in the movie besides Liotta) being a mentor, how do they figure? He was not mentoring him as far as the family “business” at all. Then he was murdered before we even see Tony become involved.
So now Silvio (the WORST caricature) was wearing a hairpiece all this time in the Sopranos? 
Too much focus on the black hoodlums & the riots when it should have given more background into the characters. 
Supremely disappointing. 
 

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, chediavolo said:

Livia  had issues but she was not a monster like she was in the Sopranos. So bad job on that backstory

In fairness, you are seeing her 25-30 years later in the Sopranos.  I wouldn't be shocked if her behavior gradually got worse and worse over that period, and colored her family's memories.  

[Avaleigh]

18 hours ago, Racj82 said:

This could have been better. Less bloated, etc. David Chase very much wanted this to be a movie for theaters. It's clear after watching that it would make more sense as a limited series.

I agree that this should have been a limited series. The movie was all over the place and they managed to somehow both cram in too much and not include enough. 

My initial opinion might change after a second viewing but here are some early thoughts. 

Where were the Apriles? I guess Jackie was in there somewhere (I think he was listed in the credits?) but he was such a non factor and I thought that he was as close with Tony as Tony B was. Meanwhile from the original series there were multiple characters who were Apriles and they barely seem to exist. Richie, Vito, Adriana, Rosalie, Jackie, etc.

Same with the DiMeo (sp?) family. I was sure that we'd here about Rocco DiMeo if nothing else. 

Also, I was really confused about the ages. On the show Ralphie made it seem like it was him, Tony, Jackie and Silvio who had a baby crew. Here it seems like Silvio is way older than Tony. Also, when Tony reminisced about his dad on the show with Paulie, he talked about how Johnny Boy would try to scare Tony by saying that he was going to have his 'Uncle Paulie come and get him'. None of that dynamic existed here.

To me, Johnny Boy (very well portrayed by Bernthal) was pretty wasted as a character here. I liked Vera but I felt like we didn't get enough of her. 

Yes too though about the caricatures particularly from the actors playing Silvio and Paulie. 

Ray Liotta as the twin was very good. I really enjoyed those scenes. (Although how/why is he still alive if he killed a made guy?) Liked that he was always able to sense when Dickie was lying. Really liked when he told Dickie that if he wanted to be good to Tony that he'd stay away from him.

I agree with others that it was disappointing that we didn't get any scenes of Dickie schooling Tony on the ins and outs of the business because that contradicts what we were lead to believe on the show.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Avaleigh

[DoctorAtomic]

18 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

Gandolfini's son I thought did well. What was weird about Vera Farmiga was that I thought she looked more like Carmela than Livia (or maybe that ties into Tony's mother issues that he married a woman who looked like his mother?).

That was deliberate. I think I heard that on an npr show with Chase. 

[GreekGeek]

It's been years since I saw any of The Sopranos, so I probably missed a lot in this movie. I wanted more of the original core cast and less of Dickie. (The Black characters were OK by me, though; they helped fill out the portrayal of Newark in the 60s/early 70s.)

Like others, I was confused by the age of Tony in relation to Silvio and Paulie. I thought they were roughly contemporary; here it seems as though there are 10+ years of age difference.

I wanted more of Junior and Livia, separately and together. How did Junior take control of the family? In the original series, he seemed like a bit of a figurehead, with Tony actually running things.

The scene of Livia and Junior in bed together came out of nowhere and went nowhere. Was there anything in the original series to suggest that their relationship was ever sexual?

Why was Livia always so miserable--was it a case of untreated depression? When she sobbed at Johnny's sentencing, was she truly distressed or playacting?

Who was the boy with Tony when he stole the ice cream truck?

Carmela came out of nowhere. How did she and Tony meet, and what attracted them to each other?

On the plus side, I liked the very young Tony (William Ludwig) and I thought Michael Gandolfini did well. So did Ray Liotta in his dual roles.

[Armchair Critic]

5 hours ago, GreekGeek said:

The scene of Livia and Junior in bed together

That was Livia?!? WHOA I missed that. I did laugh when he was complaining about hurting from the fall and Dickie Moltasanti laughing and the woman in bed with him said something like "anything to avoid a fuck". Junior got no respect. 😂 He was my favorite from the original series, the episode where it gets out that he goes down on his girlfriend was a classic.

[GreekGeek]

4 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

That was Livia?!? WHOA I missed that. 

I might have been wrong; she looked and sounded a lot like Livia to me. It would have made more sense for her to be someone else. Were we supposed to know who she was? I sometimes had a problem figuring out who was a younger version of someone from the series and who was a new character.

Edited October 4, 2021 by GreekGeek

[chediavolo]

11 hours ago, GreekGeek said:

It's been years since I saw any of The Sopranos, so I probably missed a lot in this movie. I wanted more of the original core cast and less of Dickie. (The Black characters were OK by me, though; they helped fill out the portrayal of Newark in the 60s/early 70s.)

Like others, I was confused by the age of Tony in relation to Silvio and Paulie. I thought they were roughly contemporary; here it seems as though there are 10+ years of age difference.

I wanted more of Junior and Livia, separately and together. How did Junior take control of the family? In the original series, he seemed like a bit of a figurehead, with Tony actually running things.

The scene of Livia and Junior in bed together came out of nowhere and went nowhere. Was there anything in the original series to suggest that their relationship was ever sexual?

Why was Livia always so miserable--was it a case of untreated depression? When she sobbed at Johnny's sentencing, was she truly distressed or playacting?

Who was the boy with Tony when he stole the ice cream truck?

Carmela came out of nowhere. How did she and Tony meet, and what attracted them to each other?

On the plus side, I liked the very young Tony (William Ludwig) and I thought Michael Gandolfini did well. So did Ray Liotta in his dual roles.

Livia & Jr were in bed together? How did I (and the 3 other people in the room) miss that. This movie was so bad.  

[DoctorAtomic]

It wasn't Livia. If you're talking about the scene with Jun in the backbrace. 

[ChicksDigScars]

17 hours ago, GreekGeek said:

Who was the boy with Tony when he stole the ice cream truck?

Carmela came out of nowhere. How did she and Tony meet, and what attracted them to each other?

On the plus side, I liked the very young Tony (William Ludwig) and I thought Michael Gandolfini did well. So did Ray Liotta in his dual roles.

One of the ice cream truck boys was Jackie Aprile. Tony asked if he knew how to drive the truck. I'm not sure who the third kid was. Tony B? Artie Bucco was in the scenes of Tony as a kid. They got off the bus together and shared a cigarette. Artie was musing that he was going to have to take over his old man's restaurant when he got older.  I watched a second run through with the closed captioning on, to catch these little easter eggs and nods to the fanbase.

Regarding the Moltisanti's being unable to have kids until TA-DAH....baby Christofuh makes his appearance,

 

Spoiler

I still think that they could revisit the fact that Giuseppina is his biological mother, and she was forced to give the baby to Joanne to raise as her own.  Yeah, Dickie and Giuseppina are both dead, but in a future movie, Joanne could make an off handed comment about Christofuh's biological mother. Since she was unable to have children, the fact that Dickie was able to impregnate his goomah, was a slap in the face, so Dickie brought Christofuh to Joanne to raise as her own? I mean, they made no other explanation about suddenly being able to have a baby, so I feel Chase left that door open. 

Laugh out loud moment: Tony's guidance councilor asking Tony was makes his mother happy and Tony looking bewildered and saying, "My mother? Happy?"

Johnny shooting a bullet through Livia's beehive as they drove down the highway in the convertible to get her to STFU. OMG!!!

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by ChicksDigScars

[GreekGeek]

2 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

It wasn't Livia. If you're talking about the scene with Jun in the backbrace. 

OK, my mistake.

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

Haven't seen this one yet, heard a rumor that The 13th Floor Elevators had a song in the movie. 

[TattleTeeny]

I feel like there should have been a little bit more of Tony in it, not because I assumed it was going to be about him, but because of the end when the voiceover mentioned how influenced Christopher ended up being by Tony. That felt almost tacked on, because that influence wasn’t illustrated enough. Of course, Christopher was a baby, so that influence couldn’t have been realistically illustrated yet anyway, I guess.

[DoctorAtomic]

I think the point in here is that they're all unreliable narrators. On the show they waxed on nostalgic, but there didn't seem to be any of the glamour here. Tony went on how Dickie mentored him. He never really did. Tony watched him a lot and maybe picked up on things where they were talking, but that's it. 

Tony said on the show that 'remember when' is the lowest form of conversation. I think a lot of these guys were always trying to live in the past.

I was a little disappointed that there was no connection to New York since there was consistent communication over the course of the show. Unless New York didn't 'recognize' New Jersey yet. I would think the big change in power would warrant attention. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

I liked, paraphrasing, “Ma’s been in a bad mood lately.”

”Lately?”

This movie was not very good.

Vera was great. Corey was great.

Edited October 7, 2021 by hoodooznoodooz

[cpcathy]

The first forty minutes were hard to follow, so many characters, not even opening credits, then when young Tony showed up I started to get into it more. I miss thus show, I did a rewatch when HBO marathoned all the episodes, and wow, just a great show, always will be.

I have this bizarre affection for Corey Stoll, and he was great. Livia was eerily like Carmela. 

I really enjoyed Michael Gandolfini, I think he captured something that his dad had in the role. I was thrilled when the theme song came on at the end.

I hope we get more prequel stories, I think we will.

 

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

They need to do more follow up movies that actually cover more of the usual Soprano's characters we know and how Tony got to be boss. One of the biggest complaints I've heard from many have been the amount of time spent on the black gang and the riot.

[Kel Varnsen]

I saw it tonight and thought it was ok. It seemed like they were trying to do way too much in just a two hour movie. I feel like they should have either gone all in with the Dickie story (with Tony doing like a few cameo type scene) or made it a Tony Begins story.  But they tried to do both and it kind of hurt the movie.

I am also not sure why they gave Harold such a huge plotline that didn't really go anywhere other than him becoming Frank Lucas's New Jersey heroin distributor. 

The casting was amazing though, there were a few times when Junior or Paulie were talking when I thought they had the original actors dubbing in. And the actor who played Paulie nailed that stupid laugh.

The scene where Dickie murdered his girlfriend was also brutal but looked great.

One other tiny touch I liked was how the woman on the drug pamphlet was blonde. Tony's mom and all his serious mistresses had dark hair, but his wife was of course blonde. I have to think that was intentional.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 10/3/2021 at 12:45 PM, Avaleigh said:

Where were the Apriles? I guess Jackie was in there somewhere (I think he was listed in the credits?) but he was such a non factor and I thought that he was as close with Tony as Tony B was. Meanwhile from the original series there were multiple characters who were Apriles and they barely seem to exist. Richie, Vito, Adriana, Rosalie, Jackie, etc.

I wish they had more of the Aprile family, but my big wish was that they showed Old Man Eckley DiMeo. I think he was shown once out of focus in a funeral scene. But the family is named after him so he is obviously important. So how did things go from him being the boss in this movie to Jackie being the boss in season 1 when he was sent to prison?

[Avaleigh]

On 10/10/2021 at 9:47 AM, cpcathy said:

I hope we get more prequel stories, I think we will.

Even though I didn't think that this movie was a success I also hope that there will be more prequel movies. Ideally they'll focus on the arc of one or two characters and not try to cram too much into one movie like they did here. 

I'd like the see a prequel series on the so called class of '83 ('84?) and see the stories of how Tony B, Angelo, Feech and Phil all wound up in prison.

I'd also like to see how the Apriles took over the DiMeo family.

I'd also really like to see the crew that Ralphie talks about when he's talking about how Tony, Silvio and Jackie took down Feech's card game. (Weird that Tony B wasn't a part of that story. I'm guessing because he was an after thought as a character and was created specifically for Buscemi.)

I know that Chase isn't interested in doing a sequel but I wouldn't mind seeing a sequel from the perspective of one of the NY families. Maybe they occasionally do business with someone from Jersey or the Lupertazzi family so that we see a familiar face every so often. That way Chase doesn't have to address what happened either way with Tony. I'd like to see how one of the families navigates a world where it's very difficult to hide the activities that characters could more or less get away with in the earliest days of the show.

[DoctorAtomic]

If they go that route, 'the card game' and such, I hope Chase flips it up so the way is was recollected on the show wasn't the reality of it. I like the theme that the nostalgia waxed on the show really wasn't true and that this is just a really ugly life. 

[Kel Varnsen]

13 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

Weird that Tony B wasn't a part of that story. I'm guessing because he was an after thought as a character and was created specifically for Buscemi.)

It would be neat to see a young Tony B, but I imagine trying to find someone who looks and sounds like a young Buscemi would be a challenge. Especially finding someone who just doesn't seem like a bad SNL impression.

13 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

know that Chase isn't interested in doing a sequel but I wouldn't mind seeing a sequel from the perspective of one of the NY families.

That would be neat too. I watched the last few episodes this past weekend and the guy who sets up the meeting with Tony and Little Carmine is a boss of one of the other NYC families. You only ever see the Lupertazzi family in the show, so what are the other 4 doing?

8 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I like the theme that the nostalgia waxed on the show really wasn't true and that this is just a really ugly life. 

I liked that too. Last week I watched the episode where Janice tells the story of Johnny Boy shooting Livia's hair. In her story they were with Junior and his girlfriend. So unless it happened more than once it is interesting how history gets filtered through 30+ years of memories. Same thing how Tony said there were never any happy moments with his mother, when in the movie they said that her reading the book to him in bed was one of the happiest moments of his life.

13 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I'd also like to see how the Apriles took over the DiMeo family.

One thing I did like was how the movie made it pretty clear that Junior was kind of crazy even back then and clearly not boss material. So it makes sense that it would go to someone 30 years younger when the big boss went to prison.