S05.E01: Forty: Part One/S05.E02: Forty: Part Two

[bros402]

15 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Hey, neighbor! 😉 

I'm at the point where I take any travel logistics on this show with a whole shaker of salt.

Hi neighbor!

Sometimes the travel logistics are just so annoying and it has to be pointed out 😛

[Blackie]

On 10/27/2020 at 11:29 PM, Toonces464 said:

At first I was put off by them bringing the pandemic in so fully.....after all, there was no pandemic in the finale last season when we first saw a lot of those scenes.....but I quickly came to appreciate it and it made me remember how much we've all been through in these past six horrible months and how we got to where we are. 

So glad the show is back!

 

 

I thought it was pretty good how they pivoted to integrate the pandemic except the scenes of Rebecca in the restaurant and store, no one was wearing a mask  The family were so strict about isolating to be around the baby would they let Rebecca walk in to town everyday and go in shops without a mask on?  These days when anyone leaves the house we don't ask if they have their phone charged, we ask if they have their mask with them.

[Blackie]

On 11/2/2020 at 5:18 PM, Boo Boo said:

I was just thinking I don't recall Malik having one as he walked up to Randall outside

 

Yes he did have one on,he took it off when he was approaching the house. They said he had "isolated" so he could come over, I think they said his daughter's daycare has been closed so I guess he could probably do that.  As far as cops wearing masks, they were the LAST people around here that wore masks and it was making me so mad.

[Boo Boo]

1 hour ago, Blackie said:

 

Yes he did have one on,he took it off when he was approaching the house. They said he had "isolated" so he could come over, I think they said his daughter's daycare has been closed so I guess he could probably do that.  As far as cops wearing masks, they were the LAST people around here that wore masks and it was making me so mad.

Thanks! I missed that.  

[Irate Panda]

On 10/27/2020 at 11:02 PM, CleoCaesar said:

Aaaand we’re back.

Who I was glad to see: Kevin, Tess and Annie, Beth, even Toby a little

Who I wasn’t glad to see: Young St. William (holy hell let it go), Malik, Randall, young Jack and Rebecca (holy hell let it goOOO)

Randall is still a sanctimonious prick. Good to know some things never change. How do people stand him? Seriously. He’s just unbearable. I have literally no sympathy for him. Are we in for a fifth season of him being coddled by everyone in nauseating monologues?

 

 

 

 

I like Randall,even though  he can be a bit much sometimes, but Kevin and Kate are both messes. Kevin has grown on me, but I still dislike Kate. Basically, Randall, had to be the grown up as a kid, and Rebecca’s treatment of him forced him into the saintly role further setting him apart from his siblings, especially Kevin.  Kevin was a douchebag to Randall growing up, but some of that was due to his parents’ handling of things.  I’m really surprised Kevin has as many fans as he does.  I think he’s more palatable now with his interaction with Madison and the twins.  I agree I don’t really care to see more of young William and the whole Randall’s mother storyline could have stayed dead.

[Irate Panda]

On 10/27/2020 at 11:27 PM, Bulldog said:

I know they are trying to be topical, but they have seriously had four seasons of race conversations on this show.  So, this "race was never talked about" storyline doesn't seem to be rooted in what we've seen on screen.  In fairness, the race discussions did usually involve Jack and Rebecca and not Kate and Kevin. 

 

I took it as meaning Randall stuffed his feelings about race, at least with Kevin and Kate, and Kate and Kevin were superficial in broaching the topic.  I always thought Kate and Kevin saw Randall as the Golden Child, so he had no problems and Randall just accepted these two were never going to fully understand what he was dealing with growing up in an all white family, so they would never recognize his problems. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

William and Jack cross paths in the hospital chapel

Randall calls out Kate over BLM

Randall shares his big news with Beth

Kevin tries to reconnect with Randall

 

[gonzosgirrl]

None of these video clips are available to me.  Probably a Canadian thing, but it usually says 'not available in your location' or some such. These just say unavailable.

[lucindabelle]

I’m sorry.

about what? (Or, why are you sorry?)

 

has to be the most cliched exchange in dialogue (and in real life). People denying that Randall went off on Kate must not understand the subtext there. It’s a clear rejection of an expression of kindness and sympathy- and the actor delivered it not sadly but in a hostile way, too.

it’s one thing to say to someone you don’t understand another to basically pick a fight.

randall is surely entitled to come to terms with complex feelings about his family.

but what really bugged me was he blamed THEM for the fact that HE did not speak up, which is spectacularly unfair. He did not say “you shut me down.” He didn’t say THEY did anyrhing, he blamed them foR HIS OWN FEELINGS AND ACTIONS.

I hope his therapist calls him on that. I sympathize- there are MANY times I have FELT unsafe to speak up or say this or that around family or friends. But unless I’ve tried I cannot know with certainty how they would react nor blame them for my OWN feelings.

thwrapy teaches us to say “when you did x I felt y.” But randall is basically blaming them not for any interaction WITH him but for his assumptions.

he MIGHT be right. But as others have pointed out he might be wrong too.

anyway bottom line for me is I too am tired of poor victim Randall, we’ve seen a lot of it and justified or not, it’s boring.

am I the ONLY person who feels that Shakespeare and laurel look like they are in 1972 with Shirley Chisholm, not 1980 with Ronald Reagan? In PITTSBURGH? I mean wtf with the orange, paneling, love beads and afros? I was in high school then. It was the go go’s and glasnost. I think the writers must be older than 40 and just forgot what people looked like. Trhe disco era has come and gone by 1980 honestly. 
 

at first I was excited about laurel being alive and then I thought about it and no. I went to grad  school in da burgh. It ain’t that big -

william would find out. It is not LA or NY. Neighborhoods are tight knit and hangouts are finite. Also WHY wouldn’t she try to find her own goddamn baby? I hope she’s brain damaged and then dies.

40 years is too long for this secret to have been kept.

 

[Zonk]

I guess that's the risk you run with flash forewards. There is no way that Rebecca went everywhere without a mask and that those cops drove her home without masks.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Zonk

[millennium]

I paused the episode at about ten minutes in.   I'm having a REALLY difficult time with Madison and Kevin. 

Madison has always been presented as a ditz, a hanger-on, a friend of the friendless Kate.   She has clung to the fringes of this family for years.   I'm a born cynic, so what I see is a schemer who finally found a way in, through Kevin, even if it meant violating "lady code" with Kate.   Not saying Kevin bears no responsibility for the pregnancy but I'm not sure I believe Madison when she says this was a "miracle" for her.  Why hasn't anyone on the show questioned whether Madison, who is not in a relationship and has no apparent prospect of becoming pregnant, saw an opportunity with Kevin and took it?

[millennium]

Randall says he's exhausted but it seems to me the exhausted one should be Beth who spends almost every episode waving pom-poms for Randall, propping him up, telling him what a fine, upstanding man he is and how the whole world is proud of him.  Ugh.

Didn't like the way Kate put the burden of patching things up on Kevin.   It implicitly assigns the blame for the Randall/Kevin dispute to Kevin, when we all know he didn't start it.   The only redeeming thing about this episode is that Kevin didn't say he was sorry.

Kevin and Madison?  Sorry, it's cringe.

Jack's last conversation with his father (that we know of) casts new light on Jack's refusal to go to see his father when he was dying.   It makes him look worse.

[Scarlett45]

On 6/15/2022 at 8:23 PM, millennium said:

I paused the episode at about ten minutes in.   I'm having a REALLY difficult time with Madison and Kevin. 

Madison has always been presented as a ditz, a hanger-on, a friend of the friendless Kate.   She has clung to the fringes of this family for years.   I'm a born cynic, so what I see is a schemer who finally found a way in, through Kevin, even if it meant violating "lady code" with Kate.   Not saying Kevin bears no responsibility for the pregnancy but I'm not sure I believe Madison when she says this was a "miracle" for her.  Why hasn't anyone on the show questioned whether Madison, who is not in a relationship and has no apparent prospect of becoming pregnant, saw an opportunity with Kevin and took it?

I don't disagree with you, but my stance is "so what"- not being snarky at you (I just want to make that clear), but Kevin is an adult man who knows how reproduction works, he knew he was taking a chance when he had unprotected sex with Madison. (it was not as if they were in a LTR and had discussed contraception and she reneged on the agreed method). So it wasn't a "scheme"- Madison wasn't dishonest nor did she commit fraud in anyway. The assumption that the woman bares the responsibility to prevent pregnancy, when she chooses to have sex with adult man is antiquated. I'm glad they didn't have Kevin bark "well why didn't you use anything???"

Madison obviously wanted to be pregnant and stay pregnant which is her right. If someone has a uterus and has vaginal penile intercourse, a pregnancy is not a "miracle" in my book. So Madison- no.

You could also say that Kevin was having unprotected sex willy nilly with women he was attracted to with the hope one of them would become pregnant and want have his baby- cheaper than a surrogate/egg donor! He's got more to gain from this arrangement than Madison. He gets bio kids without having to 1. pay an egg/donor surrogate, 2. the work of finding a partner to commit to him. Just like it was easier/cheaper/more fun for Madison to have sex with Kevin than go to a sperm bank. (which yes, some women have done for forever- they want the baby, sex with a man, even a random is an easier way to get one).

[millennium]

23 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I don't disagree with you, but my stance is "so what"- not being snarky at you (I just want to make that clear), but Kevin is an adult man who knows how reproduction works, he knew he was taking a chance when he had unprotected sex with Madison. (it was not as if they were in a LTR and had discussed contraception and she reneged on the agreed method). So it wasn't a "scheme"- Madison wasn't dishonest nor did she commit fraud in anyway. The assumption that the woman bares the responsibility to prevent pregnancy, when she chooses to have sex with adult man is antiquated. I'm glad they didn't have Kevin bark "well why didn't you use anything???"

Madison obviously wanted to be pregnant and stay pregnant which is her right. If someone has a uterus and has vaginal penile intercourse, a pregnancy is not a "miracle" in my book. So Madison- no.

You could also say that Kevin was having unprotected sex willy nilly with women he was attracted to with the hope one of them would become pregnant and want have his baby- cheaper than a surrogate/egg donor! He's got more to gain from this arrangement than Madison. He gets bio kids without having to 1. pay an egg/donor surrogate, 2. the work of finding a partner to commit to him. Just like it was easier/cheaper/more fun for Madison to have sex with Kevin than go to a sperm bank. (which yes, some women have done for forever- they want the baby, sex with a man, even a random is an easier way to get one).

I don't pretend to know what form of contraception was or wasn't used.  We don't know if Kevin or Madison, or either, gave each other assurances about birth control.   Both, obviously, bear responsibility, which I think I said. 

Perhaps my suspicion of Madison stems from my basic distrust of her.   She was in the overeating group for dubious reasons.  She betrayed Kate in a heartbeat by sleeping with Kevin because "I never saw someone so hot who was so vulnerable," a statement that does not engender trust at all.   Then she gave Kevin her word that she wouldn't spill the beans to Kate that they had slept together -- and what's the first thing she does? Tells Kate to make herself feel better.   Madison is totally self-driven and apparently has no other relationships besides Kate and this family.   I see her as someone who would not be above scheming.

Edited June 17, 2022 by millennium

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, millennium said:

I see her as someone who would not be above scheming.

I guess in my mind consensual sex isn’t scheming. I highly doubt Madison poked a hole in Kevin’s condom. (Which would be scheming /fraud and being a shitty person).
 

Given what I’ve seen/heard about/experienced as a woman that has sex with men-I’m 99% sure they just hopped in bed together. Kevin not thinking about contraception (because he is not the person who has to be pregnant or give birth) and Madison not caring if she became pregnant because she would want a baby if she did. If a woman DOES NOT want to be pregnant she’s very likely to use contraception or terminate a pregnancy. If a man ambivalent to kids he may or may not actively inquire about or use contraception. That’s just been my experience. 
 

I think neither one was opposed to the idea of a conception from their sexual activity (with Kevin probably not thinking much about it) and Madison being pleased with it if it happened. 

[millennium]

20 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I guess in my mind consensual sex isn’t scheming. I highly doubt Madison poked a hole in Kevin’s condom. (Which would be scheming /fraud and being a shorty person).
 

Given what I’ve seen/heard about/experienced as a woman that has sex with men-I’m 99% sure they just hopped in bed together. Kevin not thinking about contraception (because he is not the person who has to be pregnant or give birth) and Madison not caring if she became pregnant because she would want a baby if she did. If a woman DOES NOT want to be pregnant she’s very likely to use contraception or terminate a pregnancy. If a man ambivalent to kids he may or may not actively inquire about or use contraception. That’s just been my experience. 
 

I think neither one was opposed to the idea of a conception from their sexual activity (with Kevin probably not thinking much about it) and Madison being pleased with it if it happened. 

I don't disagree with you.

I just can't help thinking Madison is up to something.    She's like the character in mystery movies and true crime shows who is always on the periphery, flying under the radar, until you find out in the end she was the culprit all along.