S12.E23: Reunion Part 2

[BrownBear2012]

4 hours ago, Chalby said:

I agree with you re: Beth's treatment of Kristin and Heather, but not with regards to Carole. They were both at fault during these arguments/ disputes. I also believe that Beth is neither jealous nor threatened by anyone's success because she is so far ahead of all of the NY women when it comes to success and wealth.

Well maybe I should rephrase it...Bethenny would make snarky remarks and sly put downs of others projects and new product lines. I do remember her snarking on Heather's shape wear and being very "I can't be bothered" with Kristen's nail polish collaboration. I remember thinking how high and mighty she was behaving when she started out making organic cookies and selling them at a table in supermarkets. She had a way of being dismissive and a tad condescending to other women who were looking to start something or were seeking her approval. As for the Carole thing...it was obvious to me that Bethenny was jealous of Carole leaving New York to hang out with other people on the West Coast. Bethenny seemed oddly possessive and yet needy...in a way I understand. She had dysfunctional parents and a dysfunctional childhood. I'm sure she was guarded and cautious in new situations with other girls growing up and probably found it hard to be a part of a group coming from the kind of home she had. Backgrounds like that make it difficult for women to build relationships and trust someone. She and Carole had a great relationship and seemed to have fun but Carole might have felt a little smothered and decided to duck out for few months and be other people. I think Bethenny felt like she was dumped and lashed out. I have some empathy for her but there's room for improvement regardless of how much money she has or how grand her apartment or Hamptons home is...just sayin'...

[Schnickelfritz]

13 hours ago, Chalby said:

I also believe that Beth is neither jealous nor threatened by anyone's success because she is so far ahead of all of the NY women when it comes to success and wealth.

Being jealous or threatened by other's success has nothing to do with how successful you are. It has everything to do with how you feel about yourself. If you are self-confident and secure- all is well. If you feel unworthy or that you aren't in control of your own life, bitterness or envy can come out.

[Chalby]

On September 20, 2020 at 1:03 PM, Starlight925 said:

Ramona turned it into a real business.  Kadooz (lol) to her.

This reminded me of Andy correcting someone after they said "kudos to them" by saying "you mean, kadooz". Am I missing an inside joke. Why is he unable to say kudos?

[Happy Camper]

42 minutes ago, Chalby said:

This reminded me of Andy correcting someone after they said "kudos to them" by saying "you mean, kadooz". Am I missing an inside joke. Why is he unable to say kudos?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4mBxF-2V6g&ab_channel=redthnapper

Thanks to Ramona.

[hoodooznoodooz]

1 hour ago, Chalby said:

This reminded me of Andy correcting someone after they said "kudos to them" by saying "you mean, kadooz". Am I missing an inside joke. Why is he unable to say kudos?

Just in case Happy Camper’s link did not explain:

Ramona mispronounced “kudos” in maybe the first season. We all pretty much write “kadooz” now here. When during the reunion someone (I can’t even remember; was it Ramona herself?) pronounced it correctly, Andy pretended that he was correcting her pronunciation. But he said it with such a straight face, it was not that obvious. Or maybe he was just kind of reminiscing about that original “kadooz.”

[Jextella]

21 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Just in case Happy Camper’s link did not explain:

Ramona mispronounced “kudos” in maybe the first season. We all pretty much write “kadooz” now here. When during the reunion someone (I can’t even remember; was it Ramona herself?) pronounced it correctly, Andy pretended that he was correcting her pronunciation. But he said it with such a straight face, it was not that obvious. Or maybe he was just kind of reminiscing about that original “kadooz.”

I'm rewatching the first few seasons - at least through Scary Island.

Ramona uttered Ramonaisms since the very beginning, "kadooz" being one of them.

I really LOVE season 1&2 Ramona and Luann - but especially Ramona. She really does seem like a nice person at the core, and I'm convinced she has some sort of physical issue that makes her spew things out. She has energy galore, and I wonder if it's wrapped up in that somehow.  Anyway, I can see why they hung on to Ramona and Luann for so long.  They are reality tv GOLD.

Meanwhile, I was curious about Jill vs. Bethenny and have decided that both were playing their participation on the show HARD.  While Luann and Ramona seem like they were along for the fun of it at the start, Jill and Bethenny came out of the gate with the intention of securing fame and fortune (Lu and Ramona quickly learned this lesson too, though).

I think Bethenny threw the first punch in her battle with Jill by not bringing up sponsorship signage at a planning meeting for Jill's charity event and then plastering a wall behind the bar with Skinny Girl stuff.  But, I think Jill was  mostly pissed off that Bethenny seemed to be winning the PR war in general. They were/are two peas in a pod. I also see why Jill will likely never be back. Everything is a competition with her, and that's not good in an ensemble format.

I have a new lease on Alex and Simon - well, Simon, anyway.  He's actually really casual, fun-loving and playful, and I really like him.  Alex is the pretentious one, but in her defense, I don't think she is self-aware enough to see this about herself.  

My favorite scene of all the RH cities of all time is Ramona dancing with Simon at Jill's charity event. It was the final scene of season 2.  It was hysterical but mostly fun - and touching in a way....as if they both accepted the eccentricities of the other.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Jextella

[StevenGuy]

I watched a bunch of old episodes in the marathon that played on Bravo leading to the Season 13 premiere. I have to say watching this one in retrospect was so interesting now that almost a year later Tinsley and Scott are no longer engaged. I think Tinsley kind of grew a pair with that ring on her finger. LuAnn and Sonya’s faces the whole time Tinsley and Dorinda go at it, with Ramona chiming in periodically, seems like they never believed the wedding would happen. When Tinsley says in “Scott and I are engaged and getting married, deal with it!” And then proceeds to pat her extensions to calm herself down....well, it’s obvious how devastated she must have been when the breakup was finalized. She really really kept trying to convince herself that he would eventually marry her. Dorinda had this smug look on her face, but totally sealed her fate on the show when she kept trying to expose the fourth wall of the show when she said Leah and Tinsley never knew each other before Leah was cast on this show. 

[jinjer]

On 9/18/2020 at 11:08 PM, Cosmocrush said:

Fair enough. 

I don't expect Luann to become an expert or even well informed on this subject. I doubt she'd ever given the issue a second thought before she got her own mug shot.   But she spent some time with people that care about this issue and learned a few things, enough to decide she would dabble in the cause, at least until she can get back to her cabaret show.  It's not like she's going to become a serious activist on the issue but I think she's doing what she can to try and do something, even if it's just a day of makeovers on her TV show - something I felt was self serving but I also saw her actively listening and that's not nothing. 

 

On 9/18/2020 at 11:36 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

She's using her privilege for a good cause and that's an amazing thing.  She's grown so much throughout the past 12 seasons.  I really applaud her.

 

On 9/20/2020 at 1:00 AM, LibertarianSlut said:

This is true, and it makes me even a little bit more frustrated with Luann that she is talking about this publicly without having studied it.  Where does she stand on the idea that even people who are committing so-called victimless crimes are flouting the law?  As someone who has studied this in detail pointed out, Al Capone was a bootlegger, but he didn’t refrain from crime once Prohibition was repealed.  He was bribing and beating people with banjos from Alcatraz.  I actually see both sides to this part of the argument too, but it wasn’t fleshed out at all.  Andy also ought to take responsibility for getting into this really complex topic on a show that is about whether Sonja shaves her pussy and who would dive for dick for jewelry.

Let’s, for the sake of argument, take burglary out of it.  When I was in law school, I did an internship at the Miami-Dade State Attorney’s office—which, needless to say, saw A LOT of crime—the state of Florida was really cracking down on burglary of an unoccupied dwelling to the point where even the state attorneys were pondering if that sort of “non-violent” crime should be punished at the current level, so I always thought of it as a non-violent property crime, but someone pointed out upthread that the law treats burglary as a violent crime, and I looked it up, and most jurisdictions treat it as “violent.”  But my research also took me to a Kentucky law that said that possession of ammonia is “violent,” so I’m afraid I simply disagree with the law.  But, sure, for the sake of argument, I would concede that Luann wasn’t talking about burglary.  

Even if Luann was talking about kiting checks, your argument still stands, I think.  If there’s no punishment, then what does Luann think is the deterrent?  She never said.  Again, I think it’s all good with Luann until she becomes the victim.  If she had succeeded in getting Dennis to wire her the six million dollars for the home upstate, and someone hacked the system and stole the funds, would Luann think that person should get a good, stern talking to and a trip to the salon?  I don’t think the reunion is the proper forum to speak about these topics, because the medium simply does not allow for the proper amount of discussion.

I think it would have been—let’s use a word of Luann’s—classy if Andy had asked Luann the viewer question about incarceration and she just said that she has been giving it a lot of thought and it’s an important topic to her, but this isn’t the forum to discuss it, and once she’s really educated herself on the topic, she is going to put something out on her website (do people even have websites anymore or is it just Instagram?).  You know, she could have decided not to really talk about it the way she decided to not really talk about her father to Heather in season five, so I know she has it in her.  

I’ve also given more thought to the idea that Luann’s heart is in the right place, and I’m not convinced.  It’s possible her heart is In the right place, but if she didn’t give it proper thought, what does it matter if her heart is in the right place if her mind’s not?  The road to hell is paved with good intentions.  But I’m not even giving her credit for that.  I think that once you televise something for The Real Housewives of New York City (as opposed to a serious documentary), it negates the good intentions.  It’s crass to me.  I feel the same way about Bethenny going to Puerto Rico and handing out $25 gift cards and showing the people groveling toward her in front of television cameras.  It’s actually really gross to me.  Do that off camera.  Leave people a shred of dignity. 

But I don’t think Luann’s heart is in the right place with giving wigs to formerly incarcerated people any more than it’s in the right place for having a cabaret.  Both acts give her positive media attention and contribute to her brand and rebuilding her reputation that she ruined.  

Adding to that, I have no idea how getting a wig or a hairstyle for a woman who had been incarcerated helps the woman.  I see how it helps Luann, I see how it helps the salon’s reputation, but I fail to see how it helps the woman.  At least I could make a theoretical substantial connection to Luann’s charitable acts in the past to a potential positive outcome—especially when she assisted the unemployed woman in getting a job by giving the woman a mock interview.  And I still don’t think that poor woman should have been paraded before the cameras for our consumption.  

Lastly, I’m not at all sure how any of this relates to Luann’s quote unquote privilege.  I’m not even sure what that word means anymore.  I take it to mean that Luann was blessed with many gifts in life.  I’m not sure that gives her more or less of a responsibility to help people.  Call me old fashioned, but I think people should just help each other.  Lend each other a hand when times are lean and avoid broadcasting it to the world.  It’s really not much more complicated than that.  

Just talking about this gives me the chills.  This is actually darker, to me, than Leah’s bipolar disorder or who humped whom in front of 60 best girlfriends.  At least that’s a pretty fair fight, Andy Cohen’s moderating notwithstanding.  But when Luann inserts herself on behalf of people who may not even agree with her, it gets “icky” to me, to use a term from Eileen of RHBH.  

And I say that people may not agree with Luann, because before this all aired, I was just reading an article online about an Arizona prison that gave out anonymous questionnaires to prisoners who had been convicted of burglary so that they could disclose how they committed their burglaries, and not only was the article informative (there was a consensus that homes with dogs were to be avoided), but it stated that a lot of inmates wrote on their forms that they were happy to help assist in prevention, because they were cognizant that their crimes hurt people and they wanted to lessen the hurt.  The article did not note that any offenders thought that they did not deserve to be in jail, nor did it indicate that any of the convicts were reluctant to return to society without the assistance of a good salon.  

I think Luann’s always been self-centered and oblivious, like the time she took over the mic at a charity to tell everyone to hush, and then she went right back to her table and continued to talk, and this is just another example of it.  I’m not impressed at all, and I hope this topic gets put out its misery along with the rest of the season.  Now I’m going to retire from talking about it, because the more I talk about it, the more I think about it, and the more I think about it, the sadder I get for what passes as virtue these days.  

 

As for the HWs doing charity work - all of them - no matter what it is, I applaud them. It may seem half-assed to some, but at least they are doing it. Luann has been doing outreach since season one. We cringe with some of her words, but she does it (thinking of her giving tips to the girls about walking and modeling). Bethenny, as much as I can't stand her, raises a ton of money for victims of natural disasters. WTH is Dorinda doing? Nothing. I am glad Luann is raising criminal justice reform. Especially seeing that so many posters have different ideas about what issues are involved.

 

On 9/20/2020 at 9:32 AM, Keywestclubkid said:

I know you didn’t say it I am just responding to the whole conversation in general.....And I just want to clear up some confusion on this.

Rapist and Pedophiles ARE considered violent offenders...I don’t know who said they aren’t because they are and they won’t be/ aren’t released like that  

Nonviolent crimes are defined as property, drug, and public order offenses which DO NOT involve a THREAT of HARM or an actual ATTACK upon a VICTIM.. hence the non violence part ...

This is for people in jail for weed/ drug charges or prostitution or stuff like that... non violent things they have done to themselves and they arnt getting off Scott free they still have to go to court and pay fines for that law they broke and stuff they just arnt held on a outrageous bail system that would otherwise keep them locked up until that court date happened because they couldn’t afford that bail... no one is letting rapist and murders and child molesters and drug cartels go free because they all have victims and WOULD HAVE bail standards set as such ...  

To have someone sitting in jail sometimes for over a year waiting for a backed up court date for not being able to afford a bail on something like a weed possession charge (which is legal in some states) which you can get and not even have weed on you you can get the charge if there is weed residue on something...... is ridiculous ... Good for Luanne even bringing it up tho...... ok my rants over lol 

Thank you. No one is getting off. Non-violent offenders are still being charged with a crime, they just aren't sitting in jail pre-trial - which in a big city like NYC can be well over a year - look at the tragic case of Kalief Browder. The poor don't have to lose any job they may have, which would also mean that they might lose any income and then lose any housing while never having been adjudicated guilty while their counterparts with money don't have to suffer the same consequences.  They are designed to prevent a two tiered justice system where people with $ can pay bail while the poor sit in jail. 

Burglary, Rape, Murder etc - these are violent offenses. And in no-bail states- there is NO bail for these people now at all. They sit in jail pretrial even if they are innocent. So for the not guilty, no bail has some draw backs. They also may lose their jobs if they have one, which may lead to loss of housing etc. Please remember our system has a presumption of innocence, but we can't have the wealthy out on bail while the poor sits in when violence to the community is at stake. Also one other unintended effect of No Bail, some prosecutors have elevated charges from misdemeanors to felonies to elicit pleas. For example, a misdemeanor trespass- a non violent crime can be upped to a felony burglary. Sometimes against the homeless. On its face it looks like an entry into an unoccupied home - but often in an urban situation an unoccupied dwelling can be an empty building where maybe the person possesses drugs (another non-violent crime). Who wants a felony with no bail when you can plea down to a misdemeanor trespass with potentially no time?