International Soccer/Football & UEFA Champions League

[blackwing]

22 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

What was the vertical leap on that guy? Even Ronaldo was impressed. 

It was an amazing leap and an amazing goal.  Of course they show Ronaldo’s reaction.  I didn’t think Ronaldo’s reaction was one of him being impressed.  It was to me clearly a “this is what happens when the amazing Ronaldo is not on the field”.

17 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I didn't see the first penalty. Was it legit? 

The second was so dumb. I have to say England probably played better, but the keeper stepped up. 

I thought the first penalty was legit, the guy got clearly fouled right inside the box. 
 

The second, I don’t understand how Theo Hernandez didn’t get a card.  He clearly came barreling in because he got beat and violently shouldered Mason Mount down.
 

Thrilled for Morocco!  Happy for France, although I was rooting for England since I feel like England hasn’t won in a long time while France just won   Too bad for that second Kane PK.  I’m sure he will think about it for a long time   

At this point, I’d be happy if any of the teams except for Croatia win it all.  

[proserpina65]

23 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I didn't see the first penalty. Was it legit? 

The second was so dumb. I have to say England probably played better, but the keeper stepped up. 

Both penalties were legit.

Obviously it didn't end the way I wanted, but it was a great match.  At least England made France fight for it.  I think Lloris probably made more saves in that one game than in all their previous matches put together.

So now all my favorite teams are out so I guess I'm rooting for a Croatia-Morocco final.

23 hours ago, Wee S said:

The thing is, the women's team won the euros so technically it has "come home" (in eng any championship will do) but because it was won by the women, it won't count.

Women's soccer doesn't count.  It's nowhere near as good.

18 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

tbh, it's a lack of mental toughness somewhat.

I don't think it's a lack of mental toughness.  It was just a miss.  They happen, even to the best players.

6 hours ago, blackwing said:

The second, I don’t understand how Theo Hernandez didn’t get a card.  He clearly came barreling in because he got beat and violently shouldered Mason Mount down.

Yep, that should've been a card.

[Leeds]

23 hours ago, Wee S said:

The thing is, the women's team won the euros so technically it has "come home" (in eng any championship will do) but because it was won by the women, it won't count.

Forget a response to it @Fukui San, I never want to heart that song ever again!

Anybody who wants to hear a song where England actually win should listen to the inimitable Kirsty McColl's "England 2, Columbia 0".  (Following is an article from The Grauniad'  (sic).  Sorry I can't add a video link; the file is too big.)

You lied about your status
You lied about your life
And I pity your three children
And I pity your poor wife
Now you can go to Hell
I’m going to Brazil
Still it’s England 2 Colombia 0

‘England 2 Colombia 0’: the story behind Kirsty MacColl’s classic song

Football songs tend to be fairly bland affairs, expressions of love for a team, celebrations of communality. More interesting are the songs that take the drama and conflict of football and use it as a backdrop for the kitchen sink dramas and emotional conflicts of real life: songs such as Strachan, by the Hitchers, in which the protagonist avoids engaging with his girlfriend because he’s watching “a programme about art” – the artist being Gordon Strachan, pulling the strings of the great early 90s Leeds United team. The greatest of all these songs is England 2 Colombia 0, from Kirsty MacColl’s 2000 album Tropical Brainstorm.

The titular game at the 1998 World Cup is only a backdrop: the narrator goes on a date to a pub in Belsize Park to watch the game, with a man who turns out to be a deceitful philanderer: “You lied about your status / You lied about your life / You forgot you have three children / You forgot you have a wife. Now it’s England 2 Colombia 0 / And I know just how those Colombians feel.”

Are goalkeepers getting away with cheating during World Cup shootouts?

Read more

England 2 Colombia 0 was shaped by two things. The first was MacColl taking a holiday in Cuba in 1992, which led her into the love affair with Latin America that shaped the music of Tropical Brainstorm. The second was the inadequacies of men, a recurring theme in her writing from first to last (her first hit, 1981’s There’s a Guy Works Down the Chip Shop Swears He’s Elvis, set the template). Her collaborator Mark Nevin

told me in 2012: “If you took most songwriters, put all their lyrics into a computer and pressed ‘equals’ you’d get two lines that sum up everything [they’d written] in a nutshell. Kirsty’s would be: ‘All blokes are gonna lie, cheat and let you down.’”

He reckoned the reason for that was her father, the folk legend Ewan MacColl, who had left the family when MacColl was still a small child. “She didn’t talk about her dad much, but it was an underlying thing that coloured the way she saw the world – men would let you down and mess you about,” Nevin told me.

Tropical Brainstorm proved to be MacColl’s last album before she died, killed by a speeding motorboat in the sea off Mexico in 2000. But she left an indelible legacy. And on Tuesday evening, don’t bet against there being preening lotharios in the pubs, taking advantage of the boozy bonhomie to impress their deceitful charms on women looking for some fun, and for those women to later ponder: “Now it isn’t in my nature to ever pick a winner / I always pick a bastard who would have me for his dinner.”

Edited December 11, 2022 by Leeds

[wanderingstar]

Still in shock about the death of Grant Wahl. When I was getting into to soccer a decade ago, he was one of my favorite writers to read (his book, The Beckham Experiment is excellent and still one of my favorite soccer books)

Remembering Grant Wahl, a Champion of American Soccer

Grant Wahl: A charming, kind and talented journalist

[Wee S]

Croatia breaking my heart here 💔.

And that was never a pen. Such a soft touch pen.

[DoctorAtomic]

He got the shot off. Give me a break. Far too many penalties in this world cup too. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by DoctorAtomic

[emma675]

My heart breaks for Croatia, but I'm also happy for Messi getting a chance at his first World Cup. What can I say, I like that hot little hobbit.

[Crashcourse]

I was rooting for Croatia because I figured they were the underdog, but I don't mind Argentina winning.  

France/Morocco.  Again, I'll be rooting for Morocco, but I won't mind if France wins. 

As far as the final, I'll just enjoy it.  😄  

[DoctorAtomic]

Same. I don't really dislike anyone, but Messi never seems to be too diva (it's too easy to rip on Ronaldo because). His assist was an excellent piece of individual skill. The coaching stepped up too because with the 2-0 lead Argentina was like, 'no'. 

I think it's unfair Messi internationally has had to live in the shadow of Maradona, and somehow, if he doesn't win a World Cup then his career is a failure. Even Ronaldo. Not Kane though. He choked. 

I'll be rooting for Morocco too, but we also have the history of a possible repeat champion on the line too. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

I am actively rooting FOR Morocco and very much against France.

[proserpina65]

I've hated Argentina ever since the 1998 World Cup so I was not happy with this result.  Honestly, I'm going to stop rooting for any teams since I've been jinxing pretty much everyone since the quarters started.

[DoctorAtomic]

Well, now you have to say why.

[Wee S]

2 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

I've hated Argentina ever since the 1998 World Cup so I was not happy with this result.  Honestly, I'm going to stop rooting for any teams since I've been jinxing pretty much everyone since the quarters started.

I'm guessing because they sent england out, maybe? I just don't want them to win because of their sh*thousery towards opponents. And Messi getting easy penalties. Vive la France! Or Morocco if they win!

[proserpina65]

6 minutes ago, Wee S said:

I just don't want them to win because of their sh*thousery towards opponents.

This is it.  At the time I supported the Dutch team, but liked other teams too, and I got sick of watching Argentina cheat their way through the tournament.  In 98, they flopped all over the place to get free kicks and were also violent towards other teams when they could get away with it.  They tried it with the Dutch team in the quarters but finally met a team which didn't fold under the pressure.

Edited December 14, 2022 by proserpina65

[DoctorAtomic]

To be fair, you could have England v Insert Team Here in the quarters that sent them out. 

[Crashcourse]

I think the flopping is the most entertaining part of soccer.   🤣

[Wee S]

Where does that term flopping come from? I've only ever heard it called a dive.

This is a good game though. Even though France must win (for me). Giroud hitting the bar was so annoying! Giving a better fight than Croatia yesterday.

[DoctorAtomic]

Flopping is an NBA term for trying to draw an offensive foul.

The French keeper isn't invulnerable, but it's going to be hard to beat him in the air. 
I don't know why the Moroccan keeper didn't just basically plow through the ball on the goal or just plant his face into the foot of the striker. He stopped and let him set his shot. 

And the defender didn't close down the near post effectively.

Edited December 14, 2022 by DoctorAtomic

[Wee S]

8 minutes.

It took the BBC 8 minutes into half-time before bringing the spotlight back to england to "reflect on what might have been". Ffs they didn't die, you don't need this bloody eulogy BBC. Move on!

[DoctorAtomic]

Play better.

Credit to Morocco for taking the game to France. 

[blackwing]

20 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

I think the flopping is the most entertaining part of soccer.   🤣

5 minutes ago, Wee S said:

Where does that term flopping come from? I've only ever heard it called a dive.

This is a good game though. Even though France must win (for me). Giroud hitting the bar was so annoying! Giving a better fight than Croatia yesterday.

I think "flopping" is called as such because some of these players will get lightly touched and then just immediately flop and fall down and writhe around in pain.  As opposed to if they legitimately get tripped and are embellishing, in which "diving" makes sense. 

I get annoyed by the flopping sometimes but I do agree that sometimes I am amused by the grimacing and the clutching of body parts and the rolling around.  Then the player realises he's not getting a call, so he pops up and continues on with no issues.

The cameramen often love to focus on the player on the ground, sometimes a bit unnecessarily.  I didn't really need to know that Theo Hernandez has a butt tattoo.

This has been a great game so far (currently 75th minute).  Hernandez with the early goal but Morocco has been playing well.  This game could easily be 0-0.  Hugo Lloris has made some amazing saves

[DoctorAtomic]

Well, that's that. 

[Wee S]

In the 3rd place play-off on Saturday, we will still get one last entertaining match between Morocco and Croatia; I'm not ready to say goodbye to Morocco yet. Would love them to get a goal here, they deserve it.

[Wee S]

Ha! I just looked up how much I might win in the work sweepstake if France wins...gimme that £66 quid please! (Yes, they're english. 1966 means alot to them) if France lose? £20 coming my way. Better than nothing I suppose?

[Fukui San]

Speaking of different lingo, what's the thinking behind the term "Bottle" or "Bottling" which is akin to what Americans would call a "Choke"?

Also, when you call a player "pacey" is that any different than saying "quick" or "fast"?

[Wee S]

7 minutes ago, Fukui San said:

Speaking of different lingo, what's the thinking behind the term "Bottle" or "Bottling" which is akin to what Americans would call a "Choke"?

Also, when you call a player "pacey" is that any different than saying "quick" or "fast"?

I had no idea about this, but this article defines what a bottle job is (good old cockneys) https://www.goal.com/en/news/what-does-bottling-mean--which-football-teams-are-accused-of-it/1agz7gmhdd2ko1u6k1thuyfosm

I also love they talk about 'doing a Spurs'. Everyone knows that.

As for 'pacey'? I think it's just posh english. Puts abit of excitement into it.

[DoctorAtomic]

It seems like bottling is akin to what we call choking over here. 

[JTMacc99]

As is my nature, I'm pleased with the Argentina/France final. I like a good showdown of great teams playing for stuff like this, and that's exactly what we got this year.

[KittenPokerCheater]

I’m pulling for Argentina because I couldn’t bear it if France wins again.  I feel like Croatia/Morocco is going to be a good game. 

[DoctorAtomic]

We're not lacking storylines. Messi's last shot, the first repeat in 60 years. It's Modric's last game, and Morocco could make even more history.

[proserpina65]

21 hours ago, Wee S said:

Where does that term flopping come from? I've only ever heard it called a dive.

I heard both, although I've probably heard flopping more from other American fans.  And I've always understood pacey to mean particularly fast, but that could be wrong.

[Fukui San]

2 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

We're not lacking storylines. Messi's last shot, the first repeat in 60 years. It's Modric's last game, and Morocco could make even more history.

Messi and Mbappe are also PSG teammates. 

[Oosala]

I'm happy with the finals.  The only negative I have is the Argentina fans and those damn whistles.  I'm sensitive to sounds and I don't like that constant droning.  At least the whistles aren't as bad as the GD vuvuzela!  Looking forward to the clash of the titans.

[DoctorAtomic]

My dog loved the vuvuzela. I used to be able to do it. 

[JTMacc99]

The office pool here has published the scenarios for who wins first/second/third place depending on a France or Argentina victory.

I strongly prefer the France group of coworkers, so this is now a reason for me root for France. I had picked Argentina (over Belgium, so that's why I'm not in the money) in my pool, so I've been pulling for Argentina most of the tournament. I'm going to need to convince myself to root the other way now.

[ShellsandCheese]

I’ve decided that I’m rooting for France because I’m sick of the Messi deserves it crap! As if everyone else should just move out if the way and let Argentina win because by golly Messi deserves a World Cup to cap off his career.
 

No. Like no one deserves to win a World Cup - you win the World Cup because your team wins games. It would be different if folks were like I’m rooting for Argentina because it would be a pity if Messi never won the big one but this whole deserves thing rubs me the wrong way. 

[DoctorAtomic]

There's no deserve in sports. Or in life. 
I don't think it's Messi's fault that the narrative surrounds him, and it's a generally bad narrative that if ___ doesn't do ___ then their career is tarnished in some way. 

Especially in soccer. Higuaín doesn't miss an empty net, and this isn't ever a conversation. 

[Oosala]

Who in the HELL decided the Qatari ref should call the 3rd place match.  The guy was in way over his head and he was incompetent, and the players knew it.  Why he didn't award that penalty to Croatia is beyond me.  Just glad they won.  I love Luka Modrić.  I think he looks just like Begbie on Trainspotting.  I'm a woman so I notice that stuff.  LOL.

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, Oosala said:

I think he looks just like Begbie on Trainspotting.

No, totally. As soon as I read it.

But the ref, was questionable. Not so much the penalty, but anyone coming in contact with the official, gets set off. He didn't have control of the game in the second half. 

[Wee S]

Di Maria is a diving scumbag. And thon wee Arg player holding his face after a tap on the shoulder from Giroud....

France need to wake up.

[twoods]

France seems to be falling apart. If the lead stays congrats to Argentina.

[DoctorAtomic]

Does everyone on France have the virus? 

[Fukui San]

Oh right. I forgot about some of France being sick. Maybe that explains Giroux and Dembele being subbed already. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I guess we'll get about 10 minutes of drama. 

[Wee S]

Beautiful Mbappe!!! Manifique!!! It's on!!!!!

[DoctorAtomic]

I was being sardonic, but wow! 

I don't know if the touch pass was better than the guy just throwing Messi down with one hand. 

[Fukui San]

An actually dramatic World Cup final!

Every sport has arguments between players and refs, but no one does dismissive facial expressions like a soccer ref ignoring an arguing player. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Messi has gone completely invisible. 

France has to stop throwing themselves on the floor in the box and play the game. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by DoctorAtomic

[Wee S]

France are giving me LIFE! what a game!!

[DoctorAtomic]

Let's see if the next 30 minutes are as wild as this last ten.