International Soccer/Football & UEFA Champions League

[Wee S]

Still in it! So, if England beat Senegal then they face France next...Mbappe vs Maguire?

Poland actually upped their game this time. But too little, too late.

[Oosala]

I was wrong.  John Strong called a fine game this morning and he IS an informed professional.  And I was glad Lewandowski scored the penalty.  He's always been a favorite of mine.

[Oosala]

1 hour ago, Wee S said:

So, if England beat Senegal then they face France next...Mbappe vs Maguire?

I don't think anyone considers Harry Maguire the star of Team England.  According to the interwebs, that would be Harry Kane, Phil Foden, or Raheem Sterling.  They are kind of interchangeable at this point.  But I know you support Man U and you don't like Maguire.  He does seem to get a lot of stick and maybe that's fair, but one man shouldn't really be held responsible for an entire team's poor performance at the start of a campaign.

[Wee S]

3 minutes ago, Oosala said:

I don't think anyone considers Harry Maguire the star of Team England.  According to the interwebs, that would be Harry Kane, Phil Foden, or Raheem Sterling.  They are kind of interchangeable at this point.  But I know you support Man U and you don't like Maguire.  He does seem to get a lot of stick and maybe that's fair, but one man shouldn't really be held responsible for an entire team's poor performance at the start of a campaign.

Nah, I made that comparison because it's a forward vs central defender. If Maguire is down to mark him...yikes. France on the other hand has Varane, one of the best defenders in the EPL.

Also, the Brits are at it again - Rio Ferdinand dropped an article on the BBC website about how Maguire has found his confidence again...even my English mate said it was garbage! It just winds me up - Maguire hasn't really faced any serious test yet but they are already saying he's back to his best. In the immortal words of Roy Keane 'gimme a break!'

[Fukui San]

Should that have been a handball call to give Senegal a penalty kick in the 23rd minute?

[DoctorAtomic]

No way they would call that.

[Fukui San]

Jordan Henderson scored. I remember England fans having an absolute conniption when he was subbed on for the US-England game because it meant that England wasn't trying to score. LoL.

[DoctorAtomic]

Are we going to get any competitive games in this round?

[Salacious Kitty]

Japan/Croatia should be interesting.

[AimingforYoko]

In sad news: Pele no longer responding to chemotherapy, moved to palliative care.

[wanderingstar]

5 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Japan/Croatia should be interesting.

The most intriguing matchup of this round, IMO. Japan has looked solid this tournament, but Croatia were finalists in 2018, and Luka Modric doesn't seem to age.

[blackwing]

21 hours ago, Wee S said:

Still in it! So, if England beat Senegal then they face France next...Mbappe vs Maguire?

I like both France and England and am sad they will face off in the quarterfinal.  I want to see a competitive game, ideally, Mbappe would beat the shorts off of Maguire and Maguire would be subbed off early.  I really don't understand how and why he is getting to play the entire match.

Raheem Sterling didn't play, and media is reporting that he has "left the team" after getting news that his home had been burglarised.  Conflicting reports, some articles say his wife and kids were home and terrified, others say that no one was home.  I haven't been able to determine if "left the World Cup" means he won't be coming back to play France, or if he just left for the Senegal match.

[proserpina65]

On 11/30/2022 at 12:03 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

The fact that the US has a solid back four is impressive enough for me. Historically, the game was over after 17'. They played from behind too much. If anything, they're not going to be scared after playing England even. 

Turns out they were, if not scared exactly, by the Dutch, they were absolutely stymied by them.  The better team won that game.  Honestly, I can see the Netherlands making it to the final if they continue to play like that.

[proserpina65]

On 12/1/2022 at 2:46 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

Offsides is too much on a hair trigger and is holding up play too much. The whole body has to be over. Anything even with the attacker and defender should be played though. 

That's not the rule, though.  Whether it should be is a different discussion, and a good one, I think.

On 12/3/2022 at 12:24 PM, Fukui San said:

The US made it interesting for exactly five minutes in the second half. 

They played admirably but didn't convert their chances. On the to do list for 2016: Learn to defend crosses.

And learn to adapt strategy to different teams.  That's what the Dutch did and exactly why they won.  Van Gaal saw how the US started everything in the midfield and adapted his team's tactics to tie that midfield in knots.

On 12/3/2022 at 4:00 PM, Wee S said:

Gutted for Australia there! That last 10 minutes...damn Licha Martinez for that block because that was going in!

Def feel the momentum is with Argentina now. 

I don't think so.  Argentina looked pretty tired there at the end.  I don't see them being able to get up enough steam to deal with the Dutch, especially if Van Gaal's tactics stymie their usual "get the ball to Messi" plan.

[proserpina65]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

I really don't understand how and why he is getting to play the entire match.

He did well against Senegal.  Plus, at least one of England's alternate defenders, Ben White, went home for personal reasons.  Not that he necessarily would've played the same position as Maguire.

England is definitely going to have to have a strategy for dealing with Mbappe if they want to get through to the semis.  It's not going to be an easy game for them, that's for sure.

[DoctorAtomic]

21 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

That's not the rule, though.  Whether it should be is a different discussion, and a good one, I think.

It's the current interpretation of the rule. When I was an official, it wasn't like that. It can swing back. Technically, iirc, 'even' is onsides. It's the interpretation of what 'even' means. You could say half the body or less is onside. Nowadays when offsides is flagged, they play on to see what happens before calling it back or letting it play. That's not technically the rule either. I used to wave the flag off if the ball played too long to the keeper or just went into some dead space where a defender retrieved it. You have time to make the decision. It's the same in calling advantage on a foul. Sometimes you call it, but the player stumbles and loses possession so you whistle the foul.

The Dutch were better than the US, but if you have mental lapses on defense, world class players are going to make you pay. Those were fundamental soccer 101 blunders. I don't think they played scared. The US doesn't play great from behind, and that's really what happened. I tend to think the 4-3-3 doesn't work well because there's no real forwards, and I think getting a real 9 and a solid 6 in some type of 442, 4231 would be better. They possess the ball better than they used to. You're not going to beat any traditional powers, without building out. 

[proserpina65]

4 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

It's the current interpretation of the rule.

Not in any match I've watched.  I've seen offside called when just an elbow or foot (or less) is past the last defender.  They do generally wait to flag it until after the play, though.

Edited December 5, 2022 by proserpina65

[DoctorAtomic]

No, that's what I meant. That's how it's currently called. It used to not be called that way was what I was saying. The rule is 'even' is onside; it's how 'even' is called. Here, it's if it's only an elbow, they call it. That's what I meant by hair trigger. It used to be the full body. 

I mean, they can't change it midstream. I think it suppresses scoring and chops the flow of the game. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I got a phone call when the shootout was going on. I was nuts watching all the saves. 

I was rooting for Japan, but I don't have any skin in this one. It was a competitive match for a change. 

[Oosala]

On 12/1/2022 at 1:00 PM, Lamb18 said:

So both Germany and Costa Rica are eliminated even though Germany won. So what was the point of this game?

Also why are minutes added to the game instead of stopping the clock?

Lamb18, I’m sorry my previous response was so rude and I hope I didn’t offend you. The reason I like world football is that they don’t stop the clock CONSTANTLY for ad breaks, as they do in the NFL. You are able to watch what adds up to 45 minutes of action commercial free, and then it's the halftime ads. For that reason, I prefer world football. It moves quickly and smoothly. Also, I don’t have to look at the slobby and fat NFL linebackers. 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Oosala
A bit of cleanup

[proserpina65]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

No, that's what I meant. That's how it's currently called. It used to not be called that way was what I was saying. The rule is 'even' is onside; it's how 'even' is called. Here, it's if it's only an elbow, they call it. That's what I meant by hair trigger. It used to be the full body. 

I mean, they can't change it midstream. I think it suppresses scoring and chops the flow of the game. 

Oh, okay.  Obviously I was a bit confused.  I thought maybe I'd been missing something.  Thanks for the explanation.

I agree with you that they need to revisit how they call offside after this WC is over.

[DoctorAtomic]

Well, that's that for the second match of the day. 

[Fukui San]

I was thinking that if I were to make the offside rule, it should be that an attacker should be able to have a body part ahead of the defender, but not one that's touching the ground. So if a forward is leaning forward their head and arms could be ahead of the defender, but if their foot is behind the last defender's foot it'd be onside. It seems odd that if a player had a poofier hairdo it might lead them to be offside more often than one who's bald.

But then I realized I don't know the rules of how balls in and out of bounds are determined. Could a player leap out of bounds to knock an airborne ball back in bounds, like an NFL defensive back knocking a pass to a teammate inbounds or a punt coverage guy trying to keep the ball out of the Endzone? So long as the last step is inbounds and you haven't hit the ground out of bounds yet, you're still good. Or does the linesman determine that the ball is out of bounds in the air? I know that at the goal line the ball just has to pass the line in the air and doesn't have to hit the ground or the net. So would an offside rule judging by body to ground contact be not how things are done in Soccer (Football)?

[DoctorAtomic]

For any out of bounds the whole ball has to be over the line whether in the air or on the ground. Any field boundary, so that counts for goals and corners. This happened in Japan's last Group game that led to the goal. The player can actually be out but if the ball isn't, it's still live. 

Offsides is being called far tighter. 

[xaxat]

The rumored numbers flying around about how much a Saudi League team will be offering Ronaldo are insane.

[Wee S]

This article made me laugh so much; and theres me thinking Graeme Souness was the worst thing in punditry...I'm so sorry about what you guys have to experience on fox

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/dec/05/fox-sports-us-world-cup-coverage-tv-soccer

[DoctorAtomic]

Scathing.

I've watched the Spanish language cast on Peacock a lot, and I just turn down the halftime shows for the most part. 

[Oosala]

Fox [followed] up with “a look at exploring Qatar, sponsored by the Qatar Foundation”.

[snip] the network’s embrace and promotion of the interminable “it’s called soccer” cause (who cares?)

Man, I'm glad I only watch the matches and not the pre- and post-game shows.  I'm showing what I find to be the two most jaw-dropping pieces from that article. 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Oosala
Removed inflammatory sentences.

[DoctorAtomic]

Soccer was termed by the English to shorten 'Association Football' and give it a different name from rugby because both were called football. 

[proserpina65]

19 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Well, that's that for the second match of the day. 

I was hoping Brazil would lose.  Oh well, maybe against Croatia?

15 hours ago, Wee S said:

This article made me laugh so much; and theres me thinking Graeme Souness was the worst thing in punditry...I'm so sorry about what you guys have to experience on fox

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/dec/05/fox-sports-us-world-cup-coverage-tv-soccer

This sums it up quite well.  If I had my way, Ian Darke and Derek Rae would be the announcers for every match and the rest could all just go home.

14 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Soccer was termed by the English to shorten 'Association Football' and give it a different name from rugby because both were called football. 

I call it football because I usually just watch the Premier League and that's what it's called during those broadcasts, but generally I don't care that much.

[DoctorAtomic]

"What do you expect in the second half, Landon?"
"Much of the same." That was it. Not, I expect Spain will have most of the possession, but Morocco is going to get a few good chances. 

You're supposed to actually talk. 

[Wee S]

I feel so justified in my long-term view of Spain being boring because they are the anti-Brazil. No doubt they will advance, but I hope they don't make the final.

Also, it's called soccer in Ireland, only because GAA football is called football. And look at that - Roy Keane pissing off a whole country. Again. This time it's Brazil. Well done Keano.

[DoctorAtomic]

13 minutes ago, Wee S said:

Also, it's called soccer in Ireland, only because GAA football is called football.

I don't care for the commercial with Beckham and Manning and the like arguing what it's called because they're not being technically correct, and it's like you're being pedantically pedantic but false. 

I wish the US was as boring as Spain though. I don't mind when a side plays a lot of possession because internationally, you're not going to get a ton of up and down matches. However, Spain is in the front third, but there's no movement into the box or any overlap runs. 

[Wee S]

The BBC live text is top notch, totally recommend. Has gems such as: Spain made 1018 passes in that game..to score zero goals.

[DoctorAtomic]

Ian Darke actually said 'death by 1000 passes'.

WOW.

Edited December 6, 2022 by DoctorAtomic

[Wee S]

Yes!!!!!! I'm so happy!!!

Spain must have wanted to go home early because how did they miss so many pens?!!

[DoctorAtomic]

I was never a fan of just guessing on the penalties (as the keeper). It looked like the Morocco keeper was favoring a side, but wasn't flat out just guessing either. He was beat on the first one, but it still hit the post. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Tough goal. That was poor defending. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Did the Swiss know that they had a big match today?

[Wee S]

This must be killing Ronaldo! Look at all the goals he's missing out on not scoring!

[mostlylurking]

I’m glad Ronaldo didn’t seem too put out about not starting, he’s not exactly known to be a team player so that was good.  Holy hell those cheers when he finally took the pitch though!   Deafening.  I expect Portugal to come out on top but I thought it would be a bit more competitive.  

[Wee S]

@mostlylurking I don't think he had much of a choice but to suck it up. The manager came out and essentially told him off, and this time he can't run crying to Piers Morgan (yet) and blame Ten Hag for it.

My cackle when his goal was disallowed though. And then the other sub to score afterwards... ha.

[mostlylurking]

Well yes, he didn’t have much of a choice but he could have sat there pouting which has happened before.  It was a good decision to sit him out.  He won’t be around forever so they need to get used to play without him.

[Wee S]

Apparently there was a poll in Portugal where 70% of people didn't want him to start.

When I said he had no choice, I mean I think many in his country would have turned on him if had been a mardy brat because there's only so many times he can act up like that. The team clearly plays better without him and he can't deal with being left behind.

[Fukui San]

Morocco vs. Portugal! So close geographically to being properly the "Straits of Gibraltar" match.  

Edit: Of course, Morocco vs. Spain which just happened was the Straits of Gibraltar match. So Morocco's just making their way up the Iberian Peninsula.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Fukui San

[blackwing]

I am thrilled for Morocco.  Their defence is fantastic, and they played their hearts out.  Goalkeeper really stepped up for the PKs.  But I do feel a bit bad for poor Spain.  After the extra time, commentators kept talking about Spain has failed so many times before at PKs on the big stage.  And how the Spanish manager instructed every player to practice 1,000 PKs on their own time  when with their own clubs (since they don't really have time to do so as a national team).  And then they still failed.

2 hours ago, Wee S said:

@mostlylurking I don't think he had much of a choice but to suck it up. The manager came out and essentially told him off, and this time he can't run crying to Piers Morgan (yet) and blame Ten Hag for it.

My cackle when his goal was disallowed though. And then the other sub to score afterwards... ha.

1 hour ago, mostlylurking said:

Well yes, he didn’t have much of a choice but he could have sat there pouting which has happened before.  It was a good decision to sit him out.  He won’t be around forever so they need to get used to play without him.

I think if he had made a stink and pouted then he probably wouldn't have been played at all, since Portugal were winning big.

Will be interesting to see if Ronaldo starts vs. Morocco.  Either Santos feels that Ronaldo learned his lesson and Ronaldo will be in the starting lineup, or he will still be benched.

I loathe Ronaldo so I'd love to see him get benched again.  I absolutely love the fact that his replacement in the starting lineup got a hat trick.  That must have really eaten at Ronald hahahahaha.

[DoctorAtomic]

Spain had over 75% possession. If they couldn't generate chances that's on them. If they're not good in PKs, then it's on the staff to get them to push in extra time. Both teams had 120' and 6 substitutions. 

You can't walk on the pitch at any level expecting to win. 

[wanderingstar]

On 12/5/2022 at 7:16 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

Scathing.

I've watched the Spanish language cast on Peacock a lot, and I just turn down the halftime shows for the most part. 

And accurate. Tuned into the World Cup tonight show and wondered why on earth Chad Ochocinco was involved in Fox's WC coverage. 

How much longer does Fox have the US broadcast rights?

Edited December 7, 2022 by Gillian Rosh

[Lamb18]

Was Ronaldo benched because he tried to claim his teammate's goal as his?

What does Australia call "soccer"? The Australian Football League is not "soccer" or US football.

[Fukui San]

No matches for two days. Withdrawal symptoms!

The Aussie team is called The Socceroos, so they use the word soccer at least that much